If your average price is £15.00 and your average number of cleans is twelve times a year your average customer is worth £180.00 excluding adhoc work.
So what would be a reasonable amount of money to spend on each new customer for marketing?
The example matt is just a hypothetical, but I would like to hear your take on the question.
Window Cleaning Business Coach PART TWO
im not sure why Kevin R closed the tread
i was finding it interesting, and allways open to NEW ( and sensible ) idea's
How much do you think you could charge to clean the windows of a small, 950 square feet bungalow with 8 main floor windows + 3 basement windows? And let’s say that you would also clean their eaves for them (and it would take you 10 minutes to do that) . Actually, let me go one step further, and show you the actual house I’m talking about.
Here it is:
(http://windowcleaningbusinesscoach.com/images/small-house-priced-high.jpg)
How much would you charge to clean these windows?
Many of my competitors would price that job at $125.00 or maybe $150.00 if they’re feeling good that day.
This is not a fancy neighbourhood and this is not a fancy house.
We priced this job at $400 + tax, and the client was delighted to pay it. Delighted. Not because they’re foolish or naive, either, but because we understand what our clients want, and we operate our business in a way that focuses on satisfying these demands.
Yes it was an interestinmg thread.
As for the pricing, we need to know more about the background.
Is this a once a year cleaning cycle? Does it include the inside windows and anything else?
How long do they work there for that $400?
I do find the marketing background interesting.
Window Cleaning Business Coach PART TWO
im not sure why Kevin R closed the tread
i was finding it interesting, and allways open to NEW ( and sensible ) idea's
Yes, it was interesting.
One of the things I found didnt 'add up' was this subject on Kevin Dubroskys site regarding pricing. I became immediately sceptical of him and his approaches after reading his pricing structure for the following jobQuoteHow much do you think you could charge to clean the windows of a small, 950 square feet bungalow with 8 main floor windows + 3 basement windows? And let’s say that you would also clean their eaves for them (and it would take you 10 minutes to do that) . Actually, let me go one step further, and show you the actual house I’m talking about.
Here it is:
(http://windowcleaningbusinesscoach.com/images/small-house-priced-high.jpg)
How much would you charge to clean these windows?
Many of my competitors would price that job at $125.00 or maybe $150.00 if they’re feeling good that day.
This is not a fancy neighbourhood and this is not a fancy house.
We priced this job at $400 + tax, and the client was delighted to pay it. Delighted. Not because they’re foolish or naive, either, but because we understand what our clients want, and we operate our business in a way that focuses on satisfying these demands.
Now correct me if Im wrong, but doesnt $400.00 equate to something like £200.00 for what is a window clean and 10 more minutes work (which is what he has stated).
I dont know, but to me, and maybe Im just too soft, but realistically speaking, isn't £200.00 for 30 minutes work (the 10 minutes for the eaves and 20 minutes? for the windows) taking the p?
In this country you'd have Matt Awright on your case with those rates.
Matt
i would say 10%, but the percentages would go up for the more lucrative jobs.
Thanks for that Ronnie, 10% seems high to me only because I am currently marketing at about 3% per value of customer.
I spend the money on quality business cards, leaflets and brochure etc what else do you spend the extra 7% on?
If your average price is £15.00 and your average number of cleans is twelve times a year your average customer is worth £180.00 excluding adhoc work.
So what would be a reasonable amount of money to spend on each new customer for marketing?
The example matt is just a hypothetical, but I would like to hear your take on the question.
i would say 10%, but the percentages would go up for the more lucrative jobs.
Thanks for that Ronnie, 10% seems high to me only because I am currently marketing at about 3% per value of customer.
I spend the money on quality business cards, leaflets and brochure etc what else do you spend the extra 7% on?
Have you included staff costs to get the flyers/brochures in front of the customer?
Sole trader, so I do a lot of the other jobs as well.
Thanks for your concern
When I have employed (sub contracted) it’s been for production (window cleaning) not for any other basic office/business based work.
I’m hoping to delegate all my production work!
Just to clarify 3% is to every potential customer.
To be honest, if you guys spent as much time on marketing as you do on this forum you would do much better for yourselves. ::)
Richard branson has a team that does nothing at all apart from asses
David Slater, Going around delivering leaflets is something I did when I first started, and will most likely use this marketing style alone someday in the future.
But I am a lot more focused now broad sweeps are to time consuming and there returns are not good enough for me.
How much I spend on marketing each potential customer I couldn’t afford to market many thousands of potential customers. Instead I market fewer but get much better returns.
Hope that makes sense.
Thanks for your concern
When I have employed (sub contracted) it’s been for production (window cleaning) not for any other basic office/business based work.
I’m hoping to delegate all my production work!
Just to clarify 3% is to every potential customer.
You employ/sub contract window cleaners to do the cleaning? Then go out delivering leaflets that you could get delivered for less than £5.00 per hour?
ermmm....
Wouldnt you be better to clean a few windows and pay some kid £5.00 an hour to deliver leaflets???
without sounding like i am defending ewan ( because that is the furthest thing from my mind )
have you thought that he ( and others ) might just deliver the leaflets in a evening when its dark and they cannot clean windows, so why pay a lad 5 quid a hour to deliver when you can do it yourself for free ? ? ? ??
LOL I don’t need defending, everyone is entitled to air there views even the sad ones who take things far to emotionally.
;D ;D ;D ;D
Window Cleaning Business Coach PART TWO
im not sure why Kevin R closed the tread
i was finding it interesting, and allways open to NEW ( and sensible ) idea's
Yes, it was interesting.
One of the things I found didnt 'add up' was this subject on Kevin Dubroskys site regarding pricing. I became immediately sceptical of him and his approaches after reading his pricing structure for the following jobQuoteHow much do you think you could charge to clean the windows of a small, 950 square feet bungalow with 8 main floor windows + 3 basement windows? And let’s say that you would also clean their eaves for them (and it would take you 10 minutes to do that) . Actually, let me go one step further, and show you the actual house I’m talking about.
Here it is:
(http://windowcleaningbusinesscoach.com/images/small-house-priced-high.jpg)
How much would you charge to clean these windows?
Many of my competitors would price that job at $125.00 or maybe $150.00 if they’re feeling good that day.
This is not a fancy neighbourhood and this is not a fancy house.
We priced this job at $400 + tax, and the client was delighted to pay it. Delighted. Not because they’re foolish or naive, either, but because we understand what our clients want, and we operate our business in a way that focuses on satisfying these demands.
Now correct me if Im wrong, but doesnt $400.00 equate to something like £200.00 for what is a window clean and 10 more minutes work (which is what he has stated).
I dont know, but to me, and maybe Im just too soft, but realistically speaking, isn't £200.00 for 30 minutes work (the 10 minutes for the eaves and 20 minutes? for the windows) taking the p?
In this country you'd have Matt Awright on your case with those rates.
Matt
David Slater, Going around delivering leaflets is something I did when I first started, and will most likely use this marketing style alone someday in the future.
But I am a lot more focused now broad sweeps are to time consuming and there returns are not good enough for me.
How much I spend on marketing each potential customer I couldn’t afford to market many thousands of potential customers. Instead I market fewer but get much better returns.
Hope that makes sense.
Not really. Would you care to give examples?
Are you saying you're a salesman and not a window cleaner? Thats fair enough....if you have deep pockets and are able to concentrate soley on marketing while subsidising the window cleaning workers/vehicles/equipment while the business develops.
I presume you do subsidise the window cleaners while you're developing the work? Unless you're saying your strike rate and prices are so effective that you can hit parity in one clean?
If you can’t understand that, then there is no point in explaining further.
You have raised some good questions; all you have to do is answer them yourself. Just knowing the answer isn’t always enough, comprehension is just as important.
There plenty on here who will tell you all about some huge corporation and how they should improve that business!
Plenty of answer but no comprehension.
I have a good business venture.
I will subcribe to "the coach" marketing plan, I will pay my monthly fees.
I will then translate this into UK english (biro=money not pen) then I will sell this to anyone for say £10 per month.
That's because you counldn't come up with it your self, right?
I could very easily come up with a monthly marketing package that would generate more business to every cleaner if they followed my advice.
Thanks for the promotion Matt, quite true I do use an alias, the reason being is that in the past I have been abused on here by people who only intend to be critical and have no real interest in helping anybody.
I found the video by chance on youtube, and yes I think it's far too fast to give a quality service.
I had a lot of leaflets printed that stressed the fact that i use hot water. These leaflets failed, why was that do you think?
There is an old saying in sales. "KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID" and sometimes too much information is counter productive.
Its all about selling the benefits - Clean windows!!! and that they can relax while you do it safely with respect for their property.
I did a big wfp pure water bit on the back of my flyers and I have a bit on my website about how it works but still people (who have been long time customers) ask if its tap water!!!
It is also flawed, if every cleaner only targeted propertys that they can charge 5 times their normal rates, whats happens when then run out of propertys to target or what happens to the cleaner when these customers sudderly find they cannot afford a window cleaner anymore because they are broke and there is a world wide ression going on, and he loses all of he clients to other cleaners who are charging more realistic prices.[/color]
Okay, just watched your vid and was quite impressed.
question
I had a lot of leaflets printed that stressed the fact that i use hot water. These leaflets failed, why was that do you think?
For example when I first started out I used to explain how wfp works, I use to tell then about the impurities that are in water and what it does if used to glean glass, this explained to need to use pure water.
While I was saying all of this you could see their eyes go blank and their brains would turn off, then they would then find problems about wfp cleaning (the windows are left wet, you are destroying the planet by using all of this water etc etc)
The same applied to leaflets I had made up, they were very flashy and had photos and all the information on it to make you an expert on wfp cleaning, yet the response was very low, compared with a simply made up flyer I had already used and still use now.
Most people have access to computers nowadays if you type a link to your companys profile on your leaflet, they will then go to it if they require more information, but only because they want or might need your services this seems to work better.
There is an old saying in sales. "KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID" and sometimes too much information is counter productive.
The only one who's self esteem seems to have been dented is the caped crusader otherwise known as window cleaning coach. The only people supposed to be on this forum are window cleaners. If you are not one coach you shouldn't be on here, and if you are you should be aware that the bar for bragging on this forum has always been set pretty high.So, while you are a good act, you ain't the best.
Just for those here is the flyer that Kevin D worked on;
The first is my original flyer the second Kevin D's
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff85/Kevinred101/Scanflyer.jpg)
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff85/Kevinred101/UK-flier-WCBC.jpg)
It has to depend on the target market of course. But if i wanted a tradesman to come round i would associate glossy photos on leaflets etc as higher overheads, higher charges. And would be put off.
If i was looking for a specific skill, the above would reaassure me.
Marketing in the domestic side of window cleaning here in the uk is pretty easy. We don't need to do that much to attract new domestic customers because it's considered normal to have one.
As other people have mentioned, marketing to the commercial side is a stage that many of us haven't reached yet. And are weak at it, because of this.
With domestic work we just cast a net to pull in the work. No questions asked.
Gaining larger commercial contracts we have to provide more.
Marketing in the domestic side of window cleaning here in the uk is pretty easy. We don't need to do that much to attract new domestic customers because it's considered normal to have one.
Just for those here is the flyer that Kevin D worked on;
The first is my original flyer the second Kevin D's
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff85/Kevinred101/Scanflyer.jpg)
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff85/Kevinred101/UK-flier-WCBC.jpg)
Thx David, glad you liked it.
What you guys (especially the doubters) should really do, though, is test this baby.
Take 500 of your standard, cookie-cutter fliers that everyone says work amazing, because "UK folk are too smart for marketing tricks", and make it go head-to-head with 500 fliers like the one above, and see which one gets more calls, and leads to more jobs.
Same area, same day, same way.
And the winner will clearly emerge.
It has to depend on the target market of course. But if i wanted a tradesman to come round i would associate glossy photos on leaflets etc as higher overheads, higher charges. And would be put off.
If i was looking for a specific skill, the above would reaassure me.
Marketing in the domestic side of window cleaning here in the uk is pretty easy. We don't need to do that much to attract new domestic customers because it's considered normal to have one.
As other people have mentioned, marketing to the commercial side is a stage that many of us haven't reached yet. And are weak at it, because of this.
With domestic work we just cast a net to pull in the work. No questions asked.
Gaining larger commercial contracts we have to provide more.
I'm not too sure I'd agree with that Mark.
I've had a few window cleaning leaflets put through my door and they've always been binned for these reasons -
1. printed off home printer (black and white) and cut with a pair of scissors - hmmm, he's obviously new?
2. too cheap - hmmm, is he insured?
3. only mobile number - sorry matey, if something goes wrong I want more than a mobile number!
4. knocked on the door - dirty jeans and T shirt - no way am I letting YOU look through my windows while I'm not at home!
Considering the price of property today and the thought of someone jumping around on the roof tiles or putting ladders up against my frames, I want to know that person has insurance and is running a commercial enterprise.
Even a tiny 2 bed new build will set you back upwards of £150,000 and much more in the south.....do people honestly want the first person who turns up doing a job on the most expensive purchase they have made in their whole life?
Personally, I'de be more likely to ring the second leaflet and ask 'how much'
Thought the free massage was the most interesting bit at the bottom of the page. :o
If your windows are guaranteed to stay cleaner for up to four times longer then surely your customers will want four monthly cleans? Maybe you could lose money if you push that statement out? Either that or you will need an aweful lot more customers.
Just for those here is the flyer that Kevin D worked on;
The first is my original flyer the second Kevin D's
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff85/Kevinred101/Scanflyer.jpg)
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff85/Kevinred101/UK-flier-WCBC.jpg)
seriously now, the first 1 is to the point, and they know what they are getting
the 2nd, well i am honestly unsure about it, my take is it doesnt scream WINDOW CLEANER, will it just get put in the bin with the other 7 flyers for pizza, chinese and the local nail bar ? ? ? ? ?, the words are too small, too much for the customer to read ( do they want a essay ? ? ? )
i was allways under the impression that " short and snappy " works best
i know which i would use as i feel it would produce better results
just my opinion ;)
Ah, but there is a bit of subtle strategy in having simple non glossy leaflets. Its the "I am just a straightforward tradesman, poor but honest" approach and it does work. Also, I always include my full name, address and home number.
It has worked
Seems to be a pattern emerging there, first it has to be eye-catching (semi naked bodies) then it has to show value, which it does but without telling you what it is, then lure you in with some slightly smutty innuendos followed by the chance of a freebie at the end. Would it work? maybe but not with the pensioners around here :)
Do i like it? - No
But that could be an age thing, maybe it would appeal to younger people but they aren't the best market in my area given the credit crunch.
And it leaves very little room to sellotape money to it.
Good effort.
I get the idea & It's a good, nice transformation. But personaly i think the second one is too OTT for the residential w/c market & risks alienating a wide variety of customers as it screams "expense"! It may be ok for a specific target i.e. upmarket, exclusive area of property. Something between the two I would be happier with. ;)
Tony
Quote from, WC Business Coach
“Is my self-esteem dented by a collection of WC peers from across the pond?”
The answer is no Kevin, because the ones who are insulting don’t even qualify as professional window cleaners, and they are not recognised by any professional bodies over here, are not up to date and have more in common with cowboys.
Good to see that you are already dealing with some professional window cleaners over here. These people will give you a more accurate image of the UK window cleaner.
Is this twot for real?
Hes had a mop and squeegee in his hand for a shorter period of time than my niece has been on this planet (and she's still in nappies) and now thinks he's Richard Bleedin' Branson.
Ewan f*** off
Quote from, WC Business Coach
“Is my self-esteem dented by a collection of WC peers from across the pond?”
The answer is no Kevin, because the ones who are insulting don’t even qualify as professional window cleaners, and they are not recognised by any professional bodies over here, are not up to date and have more in common with cowboys.
Good to see that you are already dealing with some professional window cleaners over here. These people will give you a more accurate image of the UK window cleaner.
Is this twot for real?
Hes had a mop and squeegee in his hand for a shorter period of time than my niece has been on this planet (and she's still in nappies) and now thinks he's Richard Bleedin' Branson.
Ewan f*** off
Nice to meet you too.
Been at the window cleaning game for 9 yrs now. You?
And, no, I don't think I'm Branson, I don't even have a beard, and I don't own a spaceship.
:)
Well that was a very interesting debate untill that berk Ewan popped up again.
That's what it was, a debate and a very good one, i didn't see anyone insulting Kevin the coach, merely tumbling ideas around and looking from all sides of a different approach to marketing.
Ewan, if you can't understand simple conversation i suggest you find a forum for people like you somewhere else.
It is to seek attention Matt, seems almost in a childlike way (the ANY attention is GOOD attention syndrome)
Hang-on Matt, what happened to the New Years Resolution?
;D
Just for those here is the flyer that Kevin D worked on;
The first is my original flyer the second Kevin D's
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff85/Kevinred101/Scanflyer.jpg)
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff85/Kevinred101/UK-flier-WCBC.jpg)
seriously now, the first 1 is to the point, and they know what they are getting
the 2nd, well i am honestly unsure about it, my take is it doesnt scream WINDOW CLEANER, will it just get put in the bin with the other 7 flyers for pizza, chinese and the local nail bar ? ? ? ? ?, the words are too small, too much for the customer to read ( do they want a essay ? ? ? )
i was allways under the impression that " short and snappy " works best
i know which i would use as i feel it would produce better results
just my opinion ;)
Try it, Matt.
The point here is that I'm helping you guys look at this stuff from a proven, different angle.
And you're right that it comes down to results.
And of course you don't think you're wrong up until now, that's why this thread has had 1600 views in the last 4 days.
:)
What we think doesn't matter. All that matters is results.
Sorry But I think the second leaflet is nothing special it's ok but not spectacular.Just for those here is the flyer that Kevin D worked on;
The first is my original flyer the second Kevin D's
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff85/Kevinred101/Scanflyer.jpg)
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff85/Kevinred101/UK-flier-WCBC.jpg)
seriously now, the first 1 is to the point, and they know what they are getting
the 2nd, well i am honestly unsure about it, my take is it doesnt scream WINDOW CLEANER, will it just get put in the bin with the other 7 flyers for pizza, chinese and the local nail bar ? ? ? ? ?, the words are too small, too much for the customer to read ( do they want a essay ? ? ? )
i was allways under the impression that " short and snappy " works best
i know which i would use as i feel it would produce better results
just my opinion ;)
Try it, Matt.
The point here is that I'm helping you guys look at this stuff from a proven, different angle.
And you're right that it comes down to results.
And of course you don't think you're wrong up until now, that's why this thread has had 1600 views in the last 4 days.
:)
What we think doesn't matter. All that matters is results.
The answer is no Kevin, because the ones who are insulting don’t even qualify as professional window cleaners, and they are not recognised by any professional bodies over here, are not up to date and have more in common with cowboys.
Good to see that you are already dealing with some professional window cleaners over here. These people will give you a more accurate image of the UK window cleaner.
Marketing in the domestic side of window cleaning here in the uk is pretty easy. We don't need to do that much to attract new domestic customers because it's considered normal to have one.
Eating is considered normal, too, but new restaurants are always opening up to try and lure you away from your old choices...
Don't shortchange yourself, you're giving up.
If you are truly in a market where anything you do means you succeed, because everyone wants a window cleaner, anyway, and you have ZERO competition, then I wish I was in business where you live!
You will earn a zillion pounds in the next year if you wanted to.
However, if you have ANY competition, or stiff competition, then you pay a high cost for marketing complacency.
Kevin D's flyer looking at it from the customers viewpoint is kind of interesting about the privacy in the bedroom but one thing he doesn't take into account is that most working couples join the rush hour queue to get to work & home again which leaves them with Saturdays & Sundays for extra marital fun in the mornings. They really don't want to see or hear a window cleaner washing around their windows when they are half asleep or half awake. Same as many customers don't like you around during seasonal holidays if they are really honest but too polite to say so to you in person.
Apologies Kevin if it was misinterpreted.
Sorry But I think the second leaflet is nothing special it's ok but not spectacular.
This isn't a dig at you just my observations ;)
Business Coach
You asked in a provious reply what major contract that I have ever got, well when I was 22 I started up a carpet cleaning business, within 6 months I had the following on contract Edgbaston Cricket Ground, Newman Collage, Birmingham University, The Inland Revenue Service as well as various Resturants, Clubs and other assorted businesses, I then approach an Insurance Company and after a few intense meetings with their directors I got their Flood and Fire Damage contract, this was worth in excess of £250000 per year.
This is not window cleaning revenue, so it doesn't matter in the context of this discussion, but it is very impressive, don't get me wrong. VERY impressive, in terms of your business acumen. I had lunch last week with a friend who makes MANY millions of pounds a year in the financial services industry. He's a business genius in many ways, but he doesn't know as much as we all do, about window cleaning marketing.
The marketing approach I used was quite simple, I just went into their head office and asked to see their managing director responable for this work, no flashy letter or gimmick just a straight forward approach.
I have seen the sample leaflet you have done, yes it does look very nice and professional, but it does not shout out from it, that you are a Window Cleaner, which is what needs to be expressed.
Because you are Canadian you will be unaware of the domestic window cleaning market we have over here, at the moment and always in the past there has always been a shortage of good window cleaners, many of my customers have been trying for years to get a cleaner but they couldn't until they came across me.
Then I wish I was you, you have an ideal situation, and anyone with a squeegee and smile could make a killing. Sounds like taking candy from a baby. If thats the case, then you can make a bazillion pounds in 2009. If you also apply yourself to marketing, you will make 2 bazillion pounds.
I wish I lived where you do, and could make money so easily, with almost zero marketing effort.
This information is primarily for window cleaning business owners who face a competitive marketplace, and/or want to charge more for the same human effort they exert now.
Because of this, marketing the domestic market does not need the flash bang and bling that other businesses need to use, a simple direct approach is all that is required.
Again, you are fortunate that your local market conditions are so favorable. Even so, you could charge more, if you worked at your marketing, and you'd get away with it.
The commercial sector is different, here everyone is scrapping for the same contracts, and different marketing ideas must be used, there is no simple one-fix-it-all method which can be used.
You may ask what do I know of this?, what credentials have I got?, well in the last 4 years I now have a turnover of what a company director earns working 50 hours a week.
Yet I only clean windows 3 hours a day, 4 days a week, and according to my George Programme I have dropped over £30000 per year worth of business.
Congrats. Very solid numbers, and again, sounds like you have an uncontested market space. I wish I was doing business in your town. Maybe I should move! Where are you again...?
:)
Marketing in the domestic side of window cleaning here in the uk is pretty easy. We don't need to do that much to attract new domestic customers because it's considered normal to have one.
Eating is considered normal, too, but new restaurants are always opening up to try and lure you away from your old choices...
Don't shortchange yourself, you're giving up.
If you are truly in a market where anything you do means you succeed, because everyone wants a window cleaner, anyway, and you have ZERO competition, then I wish I was in business where you live!
You will earn a zillion pounds in the next year if you wanted to.
However, if you have ANY competition, or stiff competition, then you pay a high cost for marketing complacency.
Whoa. I'm not that successful. ;D
The point i'm trying to make is that with the domestic market we are trying to convert the converted. Most people might want a window cleaner but i need them to want me as their window cleaner. This is where i can learn from threads like this.
I'm not giving up. I have been working in a comfort zone for the last 3 years, but not giving up.
I have used this leaflet since i started. I write which day i will be back. (Normally the next day, so it's still fresh in everyones mind.)
I use this to try and fill gaps in my round. I have had quite good returns with this in the countryside. But I leafletted an area of my home town 3 months ago with this and got nothing.
Here are a few FREE marketing tips that I can guarantee will work, and if you follow them, you will double the size of your business in 1 year or I give you double your money back.
• Have a professional approach and look to your business, try a uniform, company name, landline telephone which diverts to your mobile so you can be contactable all the time.
• Look at you prices and what the competition is charging, if they are charging more than you then increase your prices, for new business that comes your way, try increasing this amount even higher, just don’t get too greedy and the easiest way to know that you are pricing to high is when the majority of these potential customers start saying they will let you know, rather than signing up as a customer.
• Organise who you want to target as your “New Customers” because even though you have not met them yet, they are already on your books.
• Work out what work you want, is it domestic, commercial or both.
• Domestics are easy, drop cards or leaflets’ and always follow up with a home visit about a week later (how many times have you had a leaflet though the door and thought yes I’m interested , then you have put the leaflet in a drawer and then you have forgotten all about it?)
• Commercial is different but not impossible, normally every commercial contract will come up for review every couple of years or so, what you need to do is get your “name brand” known to all of these companies. That way you will be invited to tender for these contracts more often and the more tenders you do the more you are likely to win.
• Try to break the commercial sector down into separate parts (nursing homes-pubs-shops-schools-offices-apartment blocks etc) and then go after then in turn.
• Send each company you want, with a simple letter at first, follow this up will a telephone call about a week later (always get the name of the person who answers the phone as well as the person who responsible for window cleaning and always use them, with the follow up calls you will be making, until you get the opportunity to submit a quote, never ever give up)
• If you are “Trad” think about going WFP, it has been proven it earns you more.
• Door-knock new areas, once a week for at least 2 hours.
• If you don’t like door-knocking , which many including myself, hate, is to look on each household as a customer already.
• Drop leaflets to 5 houses on each side of the customers you already clean for when you have cleaned them, saying that you already do so and so and to contact you, if they need a reliable cleaner.
• Advertised you business on every free web-site that you can.
• Get some leaflets printed that advertised your services and fix them on the back of every toilet door in all the pubs in your area, most landlords will allow you to do this.
• Also place a leaflet on every shop window that you can do for free.
• Ask all of you customers for 3 recommendations from their friends or family, in return you will give them a free clean on every one who takes on your services.
• Send 50 letters to businesses every week.
• Ask all of your friends and family to help promote your business.
All of these methods have worked, so feel free to try them.
Remember to more your “name” is known the more business you will attract.
Why not try this both on odd and even numbers as a test?
Why not try this both on odd and even numbers as a test?
thats a good call, i guess to fairly judge it, i could do 1 side of the road with type 1` and the other with type 2
I live and work in the Birmingham area of the UK and you are most welcome to come, I will give you as much help as I can and I already do for other cleaners in my area which there are quite a few.
Kevin, is marketing your drug?
Does the acquisition of a new contract validate who you are?
Do you feel a need for balance or is it all or nothing?
Kevin, is marketing your drug?
Does the acquisition of a new contract validate who you are?
Do you feel a need for balance or is it all or nothing?
No, and I measure my self-worth by far more important things.
Teaching marketing is one of my two primary business interests, however, and I understand it and enjoy unraveling and using it to support the people and things I actually love.
My other business interest is my actual window cleaning business.
I spend 3 days a week working on both of them together, and two full weekdays every week on neither.
The better I get at implementing proven marketing, the more weekdays I can stop working all together.
I'm hoping that my window cleaning business won't need me at all within the next 2 years, and keep growing more and more profitable along the way, using the marketing and business systems that I've built in.
I am passionate about how well this marketing stuff can work, though, it's true.
You caught me Matt
K
P.S. try calling or emailing me during on any Wednesday or Friday and you'll never reach me, I don't even answer the phone unless its a friend calling.
No work at all on those days.
Not for around 16 years, now...basically...but I'd like to get it down to one day a week, and still make the money I'm looking to earn.
So far so good.
:)
I live and work in the Birmingham area of the UK and you are most welcome to come, I will give you as much help as I can and I already do for other cleaners in my area which there are quite a few.
Thx!
Sounds like no help would be needed at all!
Just fields and fields of low-hanging fruit, and not enough window cleaners to gorge themselves on it.
Cash in while you can. I might be coming to town...:)
Matt apparently Duncan Bannatyne only works one day a week, maybe if you work one day a week you can compare yourself to him!
Or maybe it would be better to compare like with like.
Key thing about people like WC Business Coach is that they can save you a lot of time, for a small amount of money for his products. Although you can eventually source the same information for free it will cost you more.
There is a big difference between being cheap and saving money.
I live and work in the Birmingham area of the UK and you are most welcome to come, I will give you as much help as I can and I already do for other cleaners in my area which there are quite a few.
Thx!
Sounds like no help would be needed at all!
Just fields and fields of low-hanging fruit, and not enough window cleaners to gorge themselves on it.
Cash in while you can. I might be coming to town...:)
Great, welcome to Blighty and I look forward to the day when you approach my customers with you pricing struture, one of them I charge £175 every 6 weeks, I can't wait to see their faces when you quote them £875 or another one who is charged £55 every 2 weeks, I bet they can't wait to start paying £275, or the lowest on my list who pay £10 every 4 weeks, what joy they will have paying £50.
All of these customers have been targeted in the past and they will be targeted also in the future, but they choose to stay with me, why, well I would like to think that its all about the service I give them and it cannot bettered or it could be they like me, bacause I like every single one of them, or as the one who pays £175 and was approched by someone at half the price "its better to stay with the devil you know rather than one you don't" andthey already know I ofer a ultra 1st service and they get presents every christmas as well my other customers.
I live and work in the Birmingham area of the UK and you are most welcome to come, I will give you as much help as I can and I already do for other cleaners in my area which there are quite a few.
Thx!
Sounds like no help would be needed at all!
Just fields and fields of low-hanging fruit, and not enough window cleaners to gorge themselves on it.
Cash in while you can. I might be coming to town...:)
Great, welcome to Blighty and I look forward to the day when you approach my customers with you pricing struture, one of them I charge £175 every 6 weeks, I can't wait to see their faces when you quote them £875 or another one who is charged £55 every 2 weeks, I bet they can't wait to start paying £275, or the lowest on my list who pay £10 every 4 weeks, what joy they will have paying £50.
All of these customers have been targeted in the past and they will be targeted also in the future, but they choose to stay with me, why, well I would like to think that its all about the service I give them and it cannot bettered or it could be they like me, bacause I like every single one of them, or as the one who pays £175 and was approched by someone at half the price "its better to stay with the devil you know rather than one you don't" andthey already know I ofer a ultra 1st service and they get presents every christmas as well my other customers.
Hydro,
Have you ever changed banks? No
Have you ever changed gas/electric suppliers? Yes, but won't do that again, complete nightmare
Have you ever changed insurance companies? Yes, but they have to give the same service or better for a cheaper price.
Have you ever changed suppliers for cleaning eq nowipment? no, I use every single one of them
Have you ever bought a different van from the one you're using? I on my 3 van, next one due in 2 years, will be the same as what I have got now.
Judging by your answer above, I presume you've been quite happy to stay with the same suppliers no matter what extra benefits/new inovations/reduced prices/special offers were offered by the competion?
....resting on your laurels springs to mind ;)
I live and work in the Birmingham area of the UK and you are most welcome to come, I will give you as much help as I can and I already do for other cleaners in my area which there are quite a few.
Thx!
Sounds like no help would be needed at all!
Just fields and fields of low-hanging fruit, and not enough window cleaners to gorge themselves on it.
Cash in while you can. I might be coming to town...:)
Great, welcome to Blighty and I look forward to the day when you approach my customers with you pricing struture, one of them I charge £175 every 6 weeks, I can't wait to see their faces when you quote them £875 or another one who is charged £55 every 2 weeks, I bet they can't wait to start paying £275, or the lowest on my list who pay £10 every 4 weeks, what joy they will have paying £50.
All of these customers have been targeted in the past and they will be targeted also in the future, but they choose to stay with me, why, well I would like to think that its all about the service I give them and it cannot bettered or it could be they like me, bacause I like every single one of them, or as the one who pays £175 and was approched by someone at half the price "its better to stay with the devil you know rather than one you don't" andthey already know I ofer a ultra 1st service and they get presents every christmas as well my other customers.
Hydro,
Have you ever changed banks? No
Have you ever changed gas/electric suppliers? Yes, but won't do that again, complete nightmare
Have you ever changed insurance companies? Yes, but they have to give the same service or better for a cheaper price.
Have you ever changed suppliers for cleaning eq nowipment? no, I use every single one of them
Have you ever bought a different van from the one you're using? I on my 3 van, next one due in 2 years, will be the same as what I have got now.
Judging by your answer above, I presume you've been quite happy to stay with the same suppliers no matter what extra benefits/new inovations/reduced prices/special offers were offered by the competion?
....resting on your laurels springs to mind ;)
I never take my customers for granted and I am always looking for new equipment that will benefit my company.
As for the likes of uswitch and moneysupermarket, they don't have a section on window cleaners,yet, buts its a good idea maybe someone will start one soon.
But even if they did I feel that with what I offer my customers for what I charge would put me at the top of the list and if it didn't then I would adapt until it did.
I don't see why I should not shop around when I want consuables like poles-resin and connectors or any other parts that I am likely to use, I know what are the good one are as well as the bad and if I can save money on the good ones from another company because they have a sale or promotion going on, well why not
But what I offer my customers is not a consuable its a window cleaning service, that is very good and at a price they find acceptable, if they come across someone who can beat me on a like for like basis then I will look at how I can future improve and even match or beat this new guy.
If he can beat my service and price, I don't see why I cannot do the same.
I thoght I had covered this.
A custome is only going to think about replacing me for 2 reasons
1 He is unhappy with the service (i am doing a bad job)
2 Or someone approachs them with a service which is going to be better than what I am giving.
and there is a 3rd, the one who moves because of the cost
On the first 1 they will have already expressed their concerns, if I have not corrected this then I deserve to lose them.
The 2nd I am always looking at ways to improve what I offer, I have not increased my prices for some time because I have found other ways to make savings and therefore make more profit without the need for a price rise.
and the3rd, well there are always customers who move to the cheaper guy who arrives in the area, but when he lets them down or disappears and they want to come back on my list, they are welcome but they are treated as new customers which includes a new charge which is higher than what they use to pay, plus the double charge for a 1st clean.
All of my customers are aware of this.
Over the last 5 years I have seen so many wfp move into my area that its been mind boggling, 5 years ago I never saw another wfp for weeks on end, now I have turned up in a small cul de sac and there 3 of us, its quite funny to see.
The same applied to a shopping area I do, 5 years ago 5 of us would turn up every friday at the same time, now I'm the only one.
Unlike the commercial sector which does move its window cleaners around, the domestic market is more stable and loyal.
But yes I agree with you, you should never get complacent, it will happen to you if you do.
2009 will be the same as the last 5 years, I have my targets to make which I will get, like I have for the last 5 years, I don't want to sound cocky or better than you which I am not, but I have always had a deep sense that there is nothing that I cannot acheive.
The best of luck to you and all other window cleaners both on this side of the pond and the colonial side ;) and like "spock" says go, "forth and prosper"
I thoght I had covered this.
A custome is only going to think about replacing me for 2 reasons
1 He is unhappy with the service (i am doing a bad job)
2 Or someone approachs them with a service which is going to be better than what I am giving.
and there is a 3rd, the one who moves because of the cost
On the first 1 they will have already expressed their concerns, if I have not corrected this then I deserve to lose them.
The 2nd I am always looking at ways to improve what I offer, I have not increased my prices for some time because I have found other ways to make savings and therefore make more profit without the need for a price rise.
and the3rd, well there are always customers who move to the cheaper guy who arrives in the area, but when he lets them down or disappears and they want to come back on my list, they are welcome but they are treated as new customers which includes a new charge which is higher than what they use to pay, plus the double charge for a 1st clean.
All of my customers are aware of this.
Over the last 5 years I have seen so many wfp move into my area that its been mind boggling, 5 years ago I never saw another wfp for weeks on end, now I have turned up in a small cul de sac and there 3 of us, its quite funny to see.
The same applied to a shopping area I do, 5 years ago 5 of us would turn up every friday at the same time, now I'm the only one.
Unlike the commercial sector which does move its window cleaners around, the domestic market is more stable and loyal.
But yes I agree with you, you should never get complacent, it will happen to you if you do.
2009 will be the same as the last 5 years, I have my targets to make which I will get, like I have for the last 5 years, I don't want to sound cocky or better than you which I am not, but I have always had a deep sense that there is nothing that I cannot acheive.
The best of luck to you and all other window cleaners both on this side of the pond and the colonial side ;) and like "spock" says go, "forth and prosper"
Hydro,
Sorry mate you're wrong!
The mobile phone companies call this the 'churn rate'
Mortagage providers call it 'Rate tarts'
Credit cards companies also call them 'Rate tarts'
...try a google search with "rate tart" ;)
I'd be very cautious moving into a deflationary/reccession period without taking note of these factors.
can't say i am much on the working three days a week thing. As a driven personality i would always want to work, or at least commit to something.
When i began reading this topic- started by matt of all people (ex slacker with a disdain for theory over practical)- my only real interest was to spectate a good row, and add the odd jibe myself.
lets see what can be done as I'm planning to drop flyers next week!!Areas 'cut' are for anonymity purposes.
watch it WCBC ( kev ) according to a few on this forum, if you dont work full time, your a slacker who is a disgrace to the world of window cleaning
Great, welcome to Blighty and I look forward to the day when you approach my customers with you pricing struture, one of them I charge £175 every 6 weeks, I can't wait to see their faces when you quote them £875 or another one who is charged £55 every 2 weeks, I bet they can't wait to start paying £275, or the lowest on my list who pay £10 every 4 weeks, what joy they will have paying £50.
All of these customers have been targeted in the past and they will be targeted also in the future, but they choose to stay with me, why, well I would like to think that its all about the service I give them and it cannot bettered or it could be they like me, bacause I like every single one of them, or as the one who pays £175 and was approched by someone at half the price "its better to stay with the devil you know rather than one you don't" andthey already know I ofer a ultra 1st service and they get presents every christmas as well my other customers.
Kevin what would in your estimation be the average hourly income for a window cleaner in Canada?
Matt
Kevin what would in your estimation be the average hourly income for a window cleaner in Canada?
Matt
The typical suvvessful owner/operators earn $55/hr to $100/hr and up.
This is very true, but it is also stupid to waste it on siomething that will not be of benefit to you.
The business coach has books that he sells which might be a good bargain, I don't think that you will lose out in the long term though having them, but to sign up for a package that does not take your business on a one to one basis, then this is a waste of money.
Marketing is worth its weight in gold, providingly it is applied correctly.
Amen.
If someone wants to really market their business and they feel they don't have the knowledge, then they should go to a company that marketing is their main occupation and full time career, they can then tailor the right package to fit your individual business.
So, your advice is to find a marketing consultant that doesn't necessarily know anything about the window cleaning business, instead of trusting me?
And you would also suggest spending WAY more than I'm suggesting, for some marketing advice? The dossier works out to about $1.57/day. What marketing consultant would be willing to work for that kind of money? Know any?
This is starting to get funny, now. You are now saying that marketing advice is important, is worth asking and paying for, but you should not ask me for it, and you should pay a lot more money than I'm suggesting.
Wow. We've come full circle here...
It is very easy to throw money at these packages, but sometimes it dosen't stick and you lose.
Yup, and if you never try anything smart, you always lose, ALWAYS.
Oh, and of course, there you go again with the "throw money" at these crazy ideas angle. You can try any of my stuff risk-free. Free trials of everything, always.
One month free: http://budurl.com/skh7
Window cleaning coach
I for one am prepared to call uncle on this and accept that you have proven your argument so far as i am concerned.Your leaflet derivation was brilliant, addressed my target audience absolutely, and was compelling in it's content . I even feel a little inspired and uplifted for having read it.
I am glad to have had this little chat with you and thought you handled the critisism well. Thanks for the lesson.
This is the first time i can recall anyone coming on here against a very large and vociferous hostile opinion and turning it around. I don't expect everyone will have the grace to give you the nod, but i do. well done.
2 Or someone approachs them with a service which is going to be better than what I am giving.
...
The 2nd I am always looking at ways to improve what I offer, I have not increased my prices for some time because I have found other ways to make savings and therefore make more profit without the need for a price rise.
WE EARN VERY VERY GOOD MONEY..BUT WE ARE JUST WINDOW CLEANERS...INSTEAD OF GLAMORISING THE JOB ..USE IT TO YOUR ADVANTAGE.....
I like what has been done with Kevin R's flyer,... BUT,.. I've tried a few different types of flyer an this one is the ONLY one that I've gotten real results from. Below is the front & back of the flyer. I print them on A4 160gsm card both sides (Obviously they're turned upside down to print the back, otherwise it'd be the same message on both sides!) and cut down the middle to make A5 sized flyers. I'm interested to see what improvements are suggested,.. not just from Kevin,... lets see what can be done as I'm planning to drop flyers next week!!
;D
Kevin what would in your estimation be the average hourly income for a window cleaner in Canada?
Matt
The typical successful owner/operators earn $55/hr to $100/hr and up.
Are you talking turnover or profit?
Ah, but there is a bit of subtle strategy in having simple non glossy leaflets. Its the "I am just a straightforward tradesman, poor but honest" approach and it does work. Also, I always include my full name, address and home number.
It has worked
Have you ever tried something different from that?
If you're marketing from a pity point of view, as "just the simple, make this flier at home window cleaner", that could be powerful, but you should really tap into that more, and create a little story, and build your brand around it.
How well has your way worked? Whats your response rate? And what are your prices like, in comparison to the other local guys?
Ah, but there is a bit of subtle strategy in having simple non glossy leaflets. Its the "I am just a straightforward tradesman, poor but honest" approach and it does work. Also, I always include my full name, address and home number.
It has worked
Have you ever tried something different from that?
If you're marketing from a pity point of view, as "just the simple, make this flier at home window cleaner", that could be powerful, but you should really tap into that more, and create a little story, and build your brand around it.
How well has your way worked? Whats your response rate? And what are your prices like, in comparison to the other local guys?
Sorry for being a while coming back on this one. I didn't say I made the fliers myself although with a computer today anything is possible.
My prices are top end of the range of prices charged locally and I do get quotes turned down for being too high. I work in the ritcher suburbs of North West London and virtually all my customers live in houses worth $1 million plus, some are worth many times that.
My books are full and we are not really taking on any new work at the moment. We only do regular cleans, no one offs.
I find generally I get a fairly good response from leaflets, 90% of my business has been built from leaflets. but you can never predict, sometimes a leaflet will result in a call years after its been delivered. Thats why I favour an A5 leaflet they get kept.
The reason my leaflets stand out in my opinion is precisely because they are not like all the glossy rubbish, pizza menus, etc that drop through every door every day.
I really think you guys are missing the point, the world is full of bland but well thought though out and cleverly worded glossy leaflets that never get read because they look like all the other bland but clever glossy leaflets. You are designing them to go straight in the bin. How many people are going to stand and read that lot?
A simple but honest leaflet, no silly type faces etc with your full name and address, if it hits the right spot sends out a very strong message about YOU and your approach to business. Thats not going for the pity vote as you put it. Its saying "I'm a regular guy, you can trust me, its OK to have me working round your house, you can leave me the keys when your away"
Thats what people really want. Don't sell clean windows sell trust.
I like what has been done with Kevin R's flyer,... BUT,.. I've tried a few different types of flyer an this one is the ONLY one that I've gotten real results from. Below is the front & back of the flyer. I print them on A4 160gsm card both sides (Obviously they're turned upside down to print the back, otherwise it'd be the same message on both sides!) and cut down the middle to make A5 sized flyers. I'm interested to see what improvements are suggested,.. not just from Kevin,... lets see what can be done as I'm planning to drop flyers next week!!
;D
Hey Nathanael!
i was just about to get to yours on the other forum...
Cool, thx for sharing.
Can you provide more info about what kind of people you're marketing to?
Age?
Gender?
Kids/no kids?
What do they love to do in life?
What do they want out of life?
Thx!
lets see what can be done as I'm planning to drop flyers next week!!Areas 'cut' are for anonymity purposes.
I like what has been done with Kevin R's flyer,... BUT,.. I've tried a few different types of flyer an this one is the ONLY one that I've gotten real results from. Below is the front & back of the flyer. I print them on A4 160gsm card both sides (Obviously they're turned upside down to print the back, otherwise it'd be the same message on both sides!) and cut down the middle to make A5 sized flyers. I'm interested to see what improvements are suggested,.. not just from Kevin,... lets see what can be done as I'm planning to drop flyers next week!!
;D
Hey Nathanael!
i was just about to get to yours on the other forum...
Cool, thx for sharing.
Can you provide more info about what kind of people you're marketing to?
Age?
Gender?
Kids/no kids?
What do they love to do in life?
What do they want out of life?
Thx!
What? ;D
Just out of curiosity, how do you see 'what they love to do in life', or 'what do they want out of life,' as relevant to the window cleaner who comes once every few weeks?
why is it that their are companies such as round builders or door knockers... that build rounds for a price? do they leaflet or door knock?.....they door knock because while leaflets work, these companies need to build a customer base fast, to get paid for their services...why dont they leaflet? answer IT TAKES LONGER TO GET A RETURN!
shoot me down if you like or as i expect not many answers ...as on this forum people dont like the truth.
rapid growth = door knocking
You've lost me. I'm just the window cleaner. Going back to my question what relevance can i apply to these statements that will help with my window cleaning business?
You've lost me. I'm just the window cleaner.
You've lost me. I'm just the window cleaner.
No, you're not, Mark.
You're the guy who makes their life easier.
The guy who makes them feel good about their home when you clean it.
The guy who respects their privacy since you can clean from the ground, unlike the other guy.
You're the guy who gave them that cool little unexpected chocolate with the last invoice, and who makes them smile every time they bump into you.
You're the guy who helped them protect their investment, by educating them about the advantages to having their eavestroughs cleaned regularly.
You are not just the window cleaner :)
why is it that their are companies such as round builders or door knockers... that build rounds for a price? do they leaflet or door knock?.....they door knock because while leaflets work, these companies need to build a customer base fast, to get paid for their services...why dont they leaflet? answer IT TAKES LONGER TO GET A RETURN!
shoot me down if you like or as i expect not many answers ...as on this forum people dont like the truth.
rapid growth = door knocking
I would like to come back on this point but I'm not going to shoot you down. Door knocking results in more names on your clipboard at the end of a day but a much higher percentage of those names will end up being time wasters and getting dropped.
The reason is because when you knock you put an idea in their head that wasn't there before. they say "Oh yes, OK then" but they haven't got any long term commitment. You pick up a lot of air heads with short attention spans.
Leaflets filter out a lot of these people because it requires effort to pick up the phone and dial the number. Over time leaflets work better for me. Then when you get a few customers in a road start working on the neighbours, always say hello, speak to them, give them a smile. When they see you working in the road regularly, thats when you get accepted.
Thats why I am sceptical of these canvassing services.
Quite good matt,certainly a lot better than i expected and i can't think of any obvious improvements. There are a couple of syntax/ grammar errors.
I don't understand the weather part. You keep posting the forecast, i must be a bit slow on the uptake but if anyone else knows what this means could they enlighten me.
Kevin what would in your estimation be the average hourly income for a window cleaner in Canada?
Matt
The typical successful owner/operators earn $55/hr to $100/hr and up.
Are you talking turnover or profit?
That's gross revenue.
If you've watched the free video recording of my seminar down in Rhode Island, then you'll see a room full of owner/operator window cleaning business owners come to a consensus of about $75/hr for a typical owner/operator:
http://dossier-content.s3.amazonaws.com/index.htm
lets see what can be done as I'm planning to drop flyers next week!!Areas 'cut' are for anonymity purposes.
Thx for sharing. Wow, a lot of work has gone into this one.
I'm gonna give you some feedback on this one, too.
First, quick thoughts: example one (top one) has ZERO benefits listed.
Example two has some great, compelling copy loaded up with some solid benefits.
See the difference? You got way too technical, and forgot to ask yourself "why would someone care about all this stuff I'm trying to say?"
See the difference? You got way too technical, and forgot to ask yourself "why would someone care about all this stuff I'm trying to say?"
You're the guy who helped them protect their investment, by educating them about the advantages to having their eavestroughs cleaned regularly.
I like what has been done with Kevin R's flyer,... BUT,.. I've tried a few different types of flyer an this one is the ONLY one that I've gotten real results from. Below is the front & back of the flyer. I print them on A4 160gsm card both sides (Obviously they're turned upside down to print the back, otherwise it'd be the same message on both sides!) and cut down the middle to make A5 sized flyers. I'm interested to see what improvements are suggested,.. not just from Kevin,... lets see what can be done as I'm planning to drop flyers next week!!
;D
Hey Nathanael!
i was just about to get to yours on the other forum...
Cool, thx for sharing.
Can you provide more info about what kind of people you're marketing to?
Age?
Gender?
Kids/no kids?
What do they love to do in life?
What do they want out of life?
Thx!
Great, welcome to Blighty and I look forward to the day when you approach my customers with you pricing struture, one of them I charge £175 every 6 weeks, I can't wait to see their faces when you quote them £875 or another one who is charged £55 every 2 weeks, I bet they can't wait to start paying £275, or the lowest on my list who pay £10 every 4 weeks, what joy they will have paying £50.
All of these customers have been targeted in the past and they will be targeted also in the future, but they choose to stay with me, why, well I would like to think that its all about the service I give them and it cannot bettered or it could be they like me, bacause I like every single one of them, or as the one who pays £175 and was approched by someone at half the price "its better to stay with the devil you know rather than one you don't" andthey already know I ofer a ultra 1st service and they get presents every christmas as well my other customers.
What if I charged the SAME as you, or a tad more than you, and had awesome marketing materials ans systems in motion? Would you be nervous then?
And what if I did a lot more than simply give them a little gift at the end of the year?
Its not only about way high prices, its about stealing work that you want, and carving out and dominating niches.
It didnt take a great deal of time to produce Kevin, probably the initial copy took about 4 hours. Then it was just a case of moving a few things baout, correcting typos etc, proof-reading again, but it was done more through a challenge/motivation thing rather than a need to pick up work.
Oh, so this is not a flier that you believe has been created and designed well?
Saying that, it does work. Ive used it to target properties Im after and thers been results.
Cool, what kinds of results?
I know what you say about the top and bottom one Kevin (they are the same flier actually, one side is the front the other the back)
Yeah, I caught that...
and yes the second one is more technical, and quite possibly too technical; the reason Ive gone down that route was I think I felt it was an opportunity to at least explain to potential customers the dangers of neglecting gutter clearance (as opposed to 'GUTTER CLEANING'; which doesnt IMO bring the product to the customer, its a basic as it gets)
Actually, when I said it was technical, I was talking about the TOP one, not the bottom one, I think you misunderstood me (or I did a really bad job of explaining my point!)
The top one is super technical, and the BOTTOM one is way better at explaining to the client why they need to care about what you're saying. The BOTTOM one is way better than the TOP one, because you clearly explain some important and valuable benefits to the prospect.
Matt
Kevin, I know how you could (with very little effort on your part, based on devoting your time for a limited period only; but with permanent benefit) increase your revenue 4/5/6 maybe 10 fold. Possibly 20!
Does that sound like a nice plan to you?
It WOULD work, I guarantee it.
Matt
Kevin, I know how you could (with very little effort on your part, based on devoting your time for a limited period only; but with permanent benefit) increase your revenue 4/5/6 maybe 10 fold. Possibly 20!
Does that sound like a nice plan to you?
It WOULD work, I guarantee it.
Matt
Talk to me, I'm listening
With your above quote, this shows why your marketing ideas and skills will not work here in the uk.
The reason I say this is because 90% of window cleaners will not and do not "TARGET" other window cleaners work, in the usa/canada it is acceptable for dog to eat dog, but the uk is we are more laid back and non aggressive.
Really, now? So all of the window cleaning clients you have were not using someone else at the time of your soliciting them? Yeah, right.
I have seen many salesmen take the american way of selling, which is all in your face, yes they do get results and some can be very impressive, but they also have the highest cancelation rate as well.
Hold on, so you believe that yes, I could generate a lot of business, but then they would cancel on me? Why would they do that?
Marketing will always help your business, but trying to sell marketing ideas that are good in one country but alien to other will not work.
I don't understand this comment
Some of your responses have been aggessive in nature and you have tried to say that we all can earn "zillions" by using your marketing skills.
Actually, I don't believe "zillions" is an official measurement, simply an analogy. Sorry for your confusion about it being an actual number.
In the UK the window cleaning industries is worth no more than £200 million, yet you are going to turn all those who sign up to your package and they want to be the very sucessful into "zillionaires" HOW? are you going you increase how much is spent on window cleaning in the UK by 10000% and where are all of these window going to come from?.
I was talking about your situation, which you have since completely re-described, incidentally (is "redescribe" a word? prob not). You were claiming that you have uncontested market space where you are, and that it is easy as pie to snag new clients.
In this kind of environment (imaginary as it seems to be, now), anyone with a squeegee, a smile, and a bucket could make a zillion dollars. Am I wrong?
Now, it sounds like your environment is perhaps not so utopian, after all, but I was taking your comment at face value, and assuming you were telling me something factual, when you were just exaggerating a bit I guess.
Have you ever been to an "Amway Sales Conference" where they all hype each other up into a freenzy and they are all convinced that the are going to be millionaires.
I have meet quite a few people who sell "Amway" products, I have not meet one millionaire though.
Oh, so do you dislike the hype? Or dislike the fact that the hype is a screen to cover over impossible promise?
In the UK we like the passive method.
Who does? You, or your clients? And what is this "passive method" you're talking about?
If I was you, I would come over here and get a feel of the people who you are going to market too, you will then see that the "flash bang bling" approach is not needed and you will understand why it won't work.
My England friends that live here in Toronto are among the most style-conscious, fashionable, trend-following people I know, and they savor the finer things in life, and pay for them regularly.
Marketing requires various responses to what you are selling, if its a "Bentley" or "Rolls" then a more upmarket approach is required, but with window cleaning it is not, "delusions of grandeur" come to mind also "over kill".
That's why your business will always remain where it is, and if that's what you wish, then I don't even know why we're expending brain cells hashing this all out.
However, if you are looking for growth, then stop making excuses about how "with window cleaning it is not" required to market differently, with an upmarket approach, and make comments like "delusions of grandeur".
Stop making excuses and start applying all this valuable marketing knowledge that you said you already know, and have known for a long time. I've never seen someone so emphatic about the vast extent of their knowledge who has done almost nothing the implement what they have learned.
Please listen to me: I think you are a shrewd businessman, and you know a lot about the business of window cleaning. Please start to seriously consider the possibility that the same is not true of your marketing prowess.
Or don't...I'm starting to lose interest in trying to motivate you to do the same thing 10 times in a row.
And, for the record, after endless posts, you've still not shown us anything from your window cleaning company, in terms of an actual marketing piece, to illustrate how great your stuff is, and how well it could work.
You also say that the "The typical successful owner/operators has a turnover gross of $55/hr to $100/hr and up," well I must be very successful because I have a turnover of between $61.25 to $122.5 per hour at todays exchange rate, and at times I do earn more.
Are you falling into my trap, now? :)
I was speaking to these people about how to grow their businesses, and they wanted me to help them do that. I don't care if you're earning $200/hr.
If you have yet to tap into the power of marketing, you're leaving $$ on the table. A gentleman down in the US called me last week, that makes around that, in fact a bit more, with some powerwashing work mixed in, and he wanted to know how to make even more, and I gave him some actionable advice that incorporates marketing far more effectively than what he's doing now, to increase his profitablity even more.
So If I can build up a business this successful then surely that shows that my "marketing skills" are also very successful and cannot be ignored.
Wrong. You're a smart guy, so you do a lot of this business stuff really well, but it hasn't been because you have "very successful marketing skills".
You are in an underserviced, hungry market (your words, remember), and you are currently using basic, cookie-cutter methods, that are not even close to fully-leveraged.
You have basic marketing skills, which is more than what a lot of guys have, but you clearly have not developed expertise in window cleaning marketing.
is that canadian dollars ???Kevin what would in your estimation be the average hourly income for a window cleaner in Canada?
Matt
The typical suvvessful owner/operators earn $55/hr to $100/hr and up.
Yes mate, 30-60 squid an hourso whats all the fuss about ???
I have started to use it to target commercial work Kevin (but only on a limited basis) no returns yet on commercial.
Residential yes it works!!
If you want to re-work it then fine, feel free; I'd be interested to see.
Matt
Kevin, I know how you could (with very little effort on your part, based on devoting your time for a limited period only; but with permanent benefit) increase your revenue 4/5/6 maybe 10 fold. Possibly 20!
Does that sound like a nice plan to you?
It WOULD work, I guarantee it.
Matt
Talk to me, I'm listening
Sales/Marketing is easy see! I have your attention.
You expect me to just tell you? For free?
What sort of a business man do you think I am ;)
Saying that I think there is a huge market youve probably not considered approaching yet.
Kevin, I know how you could (with very little effort on your part, based on devoting your time for a limited period only; but with permanent benefit) increase your revenue 4/5/6 maybe 10 fold. Possibly 20!
Does that sound like a nice plan to you?
It WOULD work, I guarantee it.
Matt
Talk to me, I'm listening
Sales/Marketing is easy see! I have your attention.
You expect me to just tell you? For free?
What sort of a business man do you think I am ;)
Saying that I think there is a huge market youve probably not considered approaching yet.
Are you trying to make me beg?
His website says US$,... not sure how much they differ from Canadian$ though?nat i cant see where it says us dollars
Coach
You claim that you know the window cleaning industy.
Yes you are a window cleaner and you might be very sucessful at being one (why you would want to deviate to another business if this was the "bees knees" is saying a lot though).
I still own my own WC company, don't forget that.
But you are a "Canadian" window cleaner not a UK one, there are differences you know.
For example there has always been a shortage of window cleaners in the Uk, I don't live and work in an area where I am the only one, I wish it was so. In the roads that I clean on there are sometimes 5 different cleaners, we all get on well together and help each other out if need be.
I don't target their customers, because there are enough households out there without a cleaner, the same applies to nearly every member on this and the other forums, if you don't believe me, which you don't, then ask them.
You marketing methods seem to go down the lines that your client will target the other window cleaner who has got the work, that is not going to happen.
If you have never taken a client from another window cleaner, and never "stolen" work from other local competitors, than I am even more shocked at how unbelievably ripe your local market is. CRAZY shocked. I wish that was true everywhere.
If you're telling me that you never compete for work, then please STOP this long, drawn out conversation. If no effort is required to surmount local marketplace noise, than either you have the sweetest market in the world, or you don't understand what's happening around you.
But if you do suceed, then this and every other forum will close down, because you do not help those that are in compertition with you, because they will come after your customers and livelihood.
You may be interested in knowing that I do NOT allow any of my local competitors (or anyone in the Toronto area for that matter) to subscribe to my dossier for this very reason.
And in your case, since you will never subscribe (or so it sounds), then I would really suggest that anyone reading this who does business in your area DOES subscribe, and we'll test the durability of this utopia you apparently are living and working in.
I have already said that marketing is worth its weight in gold, but yours looks like lead.
Ouch...
Oh, that reminds me, it doesnt matter what I think, or what you think.
What matters is the results. I know you don't like those rules, but I didn't make them, I just use them to make money.
I suggested that those who need marketing help should go to a company that will work with their businesses, on a one to one basis, you rubbished this idea because the marketing company are not window cleaners and therefore they couldn't understand the window cleaning market, well Sachi and Satchi and one of the top marketing companies in the world, they have had thousands of clients and they have marketed thousands of products that they have no expertise in, yet their marketing ideas have worked.
Were you suggesting that these guys start hiring a professional marketing company, then, and pay thousands and thousands of pounds instead of trying my dossier for free?
Is that really your best advice for these guys, since I refuse to promise one-on-one intensive feedback for $1.57/day?
You also said they are too expensive for a window cleaner, well they do charge a few pounds more than your prices I agree, but not much more, the only difference is your help and marketing ideas come out piecemeal whereas with them you get the whole package and benefits at once, this is well worth the extra cost I think.
Oh buy...you make me smile, man....I'm glad you keep talking...
Like I said you might be a good marketeer but you do not have a clue about the window cleaning ways that are operated in the Uk, and because of this "flaw" you methods won't work.
Again, flying in the face of reason, PROVE to me that I'm wrong. Show me a fully leveraged marketing piece from your company that was outperformed by one such boring, simplistic, cookie-cutter flier that you are so emotionally attached to.
Please? How many times have I asked this? Seven or eight, now?
And anyone who wants to take your package, remember that you will be required to target your fellow window cleaners, and this will result in your business also been targeted.
Warning: My information will only help window cleaning business owners who do not have life and their window cleaning clients handed to them on a silver platter, like our friend Pure Hydro here.
The choose is yours.
I think you meant "choice", and I couldn't agree more. :)
By the way, I have given various methods that will help all window cleaners generate new business, maybe in your hast to give another aggressive response you failed to notice them.
Interesting. I guess I'll have to make this request one last time, and if you still find it confusing, then I'll give up, and assume that you don't understand the question:
This is not a discussion about methods.
Let me repeat that: This is not a discussion about marketing methods, it is a discussion about how to develop powerful marketing tools. Understanding and discussing methods is useless if you can't migrate them into real-world tools.
Can you please show us some proof that a boring, typical, everyday window cleaning flier has outperformed a fully leveraged window cleaning flier?
And can you please share with us examples of these fliers that were used in your test?
My hopes are high, as you've led them to be.
is that canadian dollars ???Kevin what would in your estimation be the average hourly income for a window cleaner in Canada?
Matt
The typical suvvessful owner/operators earn $55/hr to $100/hr and up.
$97 us dollars which is around £70 :o but you do get free p&p, well I have 10 ::)
You sign up for a 39 page report every month for £300 a year 8).
Well what am I getting?
He didn't give 1 marketing idea that will be in this monthy issue or any of the issues, he just kept on flipping though it, while going on that its got this and that in it, but he never gave an example of what it might be? ???
His sales approach and method was also top grade as well :o, I mean give us some respect >:(, you want our money yet you could not get someone to hold the camera for you
The part I did pick up on though was how he is going to show you how to get the maximum amount of money for window cleaning in your area, this he is going to charge you £70 for or £300 if you are really lucky.
Well all you have to do is kept increasing you rates until the customers start to cancel, you have now reached the maximum that they are willing to pay.
This secret is free of charge, if you want to make a donation, please make it to the NSPCC.
Kevin, I know how you could (with very little effort on your part, based on devoting your time for a limited period only; but with permanent benefit) increase your revenue 4/5/6 maybe 10 fold. Possibly 20!
Does that sound like a nice plan to you?
It WOULD work, I guarantee it.
Matt
Talk to me, I'm listening
Sales/Marketing is easy see! I have your attention.
You expect me to just tell you? For free?
What sort of a business man do you think I am ;)
Saying that I think there is a huge market youve probably not considered approaching yet.
Are you trying to make me beg?
No no! I was just turning the tables a little to be honest ;)
The angle I was coming from was......what countries do you market yourself in? Canada? USA? UK?
You know guys I am so glad that now there is some one here (THE COACH) who can raise the bar about window cleaning prices, we should all praise this guy who wants us all to earn good money and have a better life, instead of running all day for £10- £20 window cleaning.
So if on the way he earns money from us, let it be.
After all is not easy to have an imaginative talent. And he has.
You have to be borne with it.
So for me any way good luck to KEVIN and please keep up the good work.
Regards
Bosh
$97 us dollars which is around £70 :o but you do get free p&p, well I have 10 ::)
You sign up for a 39 page report every month for £300 a year 8).
Well what am I getting?
He didn't give 1 marketing idea that will be in this monthy issue or any of the issues, he just kept on flipping though it, while going on that its got this and that in it, but he never gave an example of what it might be? ???
His sales approach and method was also top grade as well :o, I mean give us some respect >:(, you want our money yet you could not get someone to hold the camera for you
The part I did pick up on though was how he is going to show you how to get the maximum amount of money for window cleaning in your area, this he is going to charge you £70 for or £300 if you are really lucky.
Well all you have to do is kept increasing you rates until the customers start to cancel, you have now reached the maximum that they are willing to pay.
This secret is free of charge, if you want to make a donation, please make it to the NSPCC.
I really wish I could sit down with you "live" and respond to you in person.
I really do...alas, I am pretty far away.
I guess I haven't made enough vids or provided enough examples, or supplied enough downloads to make the smallest dent in your intellect. And its obvious that you didn't watch the extensive previews of the dossier, that shoed you what was INSIDE the January 2009 edition.
I have decided to stop caring about it all, Pure Hydro...you win, I will officially investing time on a project that you have no current interest in: correcting weak logic.
You are not correct, but you do have a loud v ;)oice, I'll give you that.
When you want to stop yelling, let me know.
sorry but could you clarifysorry to be a pest but could you answer this question please ;D
are the figures on your website in canadian dollars ???
i have read through a lot of this post and would like to make a couple of observations
i am sure this bloke knows loads about marketing and no doubt some of his advice can be applied to this country
but
he is talking canadian dollars so that $400 house equates to 200 quid or so
if the window cleaning business in canada is like the states then it is more like once a year than once a month for a clean
on that basis the 1150 dollars of work for 34 fliers equates to 3 jobs
done once a year ::)
so thats a sub 10% take up
good for leaflets but not unheard of
my best response was 5 out of 21
right place right time,sometimes it happens that way ;D
this marketing practice is probably portable and applicable to us over here but needs to be viewed in perspective
Kevin,.. can I buy your book and pay upfront? I'm a bit old fashioned and would prefer not to do the weekly payment thing!
You know guys I am so glad that now there is some one here (THE COACH) who can raise the bar about window cleaning prices, we should all praise this guy who wants us all to earn good money and have a better life, instead of running all day for £10- £20 window cleaning.Totally agree, give the man a chance.
So if on the way he earns money from us, let it be.
After all is not easy to have an imaginative talent. And he has.
You have to be borne with it.
So for me any way good luck to KEVIN and please keep up the good work.
Regards
Bosh
Thx man
sorry but could you clarifysorry to be a pest but could you answer this question please ;D
are the figures on your website in canadian dollars ???
and could you also tell me what the frequency is for cleaning that little house/bungalow thing which is pictured on your website and at start of this thread please
Kevin,.. can I buy your book and pay upfront? I'm a bit old fashioned and would prefer not to do the weekly payment thing!
Sure, here's the link:
http://budurl.com/yfm8
Kevin, I know how you could (with very little effort on your part, based on devoting your time for a limited period only; but with permanent benefit) increase your revenue 4/5/6 maybe 10 fold. Possibly 20!
Does that sound like a nice plan to you?
It WOULD work, I guarantee it.
Matt
Talk to me, I'm listening
Sales/Marketing is easy see! I have your attention.
You expect me to just tell you? For free?
What sort of a business man do you think I am ;)
Saying that I think there is a huge market youve probably not considered approaching yet.
Are you trying to make me beg?
No no! I was just turning the tables a little to be honest ;)
The angle I was coming from was......what countries do you market yourself in? Canada? USA? UK?
I've got subscribers in the UK, Canada, US, and Australia too.
This stuff works in any free market economy. If you're in one, I can help you.
i have read through a lot of this post and would like to make a couple of observations
i am sure this bloke knows loads about marketing and no doubt some of his advice can be applied to this country
but
he is talking canadian dollars so that $400 house equates to 200 quid or so
if the window cleaning business in canada is like the states then it is more like once a year than once a month for a clean
on that basis the 1150 dollars of work for 34 fliers equates to 3 jobs
done once a year ::)
so thats a sub 10% take up
good for leaflets but not unheard of
my best response was 5 out of 21
right place right time,sometimes it happens that way ;D
this marketing practice is probably portable and applicable to us over here but needs to be viewed in perspective
Good, let's do some math.
2 brand-new jobs, as follows:
House 1:
Ext windows + gutters $277
House 2:
Ext + Int windows + gutter $875+ (cant remember exactly)
That's $1150 in IMMEDIATE work.
In this area, most have their windows and eaves cleaned twice/yr.
So, if I can keep them happy (so far so good), that'll mean $2300 in 2009 from them.
From 34 little fliers printed on a home computer and printer on a Thurs afternoon in November.
Make sense?
Not to mention the additional stuff I could up-sell and cross-sell, and the neighbours we'll target in 2009, too, using these guys as leverage to earn more local trust.
i have read through a lot of this post and would like to make a couple of observations
i am sure this bloke knows loads about marketing and no doubt some of his advice can be applied to this country
but
he is talking canadian dollars so that $400 house equates to 200 quid or so
if the window cleaning business in canada is like the states then it is more like once a year than once a month for a clean
on that basis the 1150 dollars of work for 34 fliers equates to 3 jobs
done once a year ::)
so thats a sub 10% take up
good for leaflets but not unheard of
my best response was 5 out of 21
right place right time,sometimes it happens that way ;D
this marketing practice is probably portable and applicable to us over here but needs to be viewed in perspective
Good, let's do some math.
2 brand-new jobs, as follows:
House 1:
Ext windows + gutters $277
House 2:
Ext + Int windows + gutter $875+ (cant remember exactly)
That's $1150 in IMMEDIATE work.
In this area, most have their windows and eaves cleaned twice/yr.
So, if I can keep them happy (so far so good), that'll mean $2300 in 2009 from them.
From 34 little fliers printed on a home computer and printer on a Thurs afternoon in November.
Make sense?
Not to mention the additional stuff I could up-sell and cross-sell, and the neighbours we'll target in 2009, too, using these guys as leverage to earn more local trust.
We in the Uk do not clean on a 6 monthy or yearly basis, we turn up each week or every 2 - 4 - 6 or maybe 8 weeks..
We already charge £10 a clean, which can work out at £520 or $915 canadian dollars a year, how are you going to increase this?
Kevin, I know how you could (with very little effort on your part, based on devoting your time for a limited period only; but with permanent benefit) increase your revenue 4/5/6 maybe 10 fold. Possibly 20!
Does that sound like a nice plan to you?
It WOULD work, I guarantee it.
Matt
Talk to me, I'm listening
Sales/Marketing is easy see! I have your attention.
You expect me to just tell you? For free?
What sort of a business man do you think I am ;)
Saying that I think there is a huge market youve probably not considered approaching yet.
Are you trying to make me beg?
No no! I was just turning the tables a little to be honest ;)
The angle I was coming from was......what countries do you market yourself in? Canada? USA? UK?
I've got subscribers in the UK, Canada, US, and Australia too.
This stuff works in any free market economy. If you're in one, I can help you.
Yes I thought Australia might be one of your target areas, they have a similiar window-cleaning régime to the US and Canada I beieve.
So what is stopping you from expanding into other areas of Europe, Russia, theres a Russian window-cleaner comes on here http://www.moemgorod.ru/ how about Iceland, Poland, Ukraine, Middle East?
Kevin,.. can I buy your book and pay upfront? I'm a bit old fashioned and would prefer not to do the weekly payment thing!
Sure, here's the link:
http://budurl.com/yfm8
I get an error message from that link?
Maybe a €uro link (Half price of course) would also be a good idea??
:)
Kevin, I know how you could (with very little effort on your part, based on devoting your time for a limited period only; but with permanent benefit) increase your revenue 4/5/6 maybe 10 fold. Possibly 20!
Does that sound like a nice plan to you?
It WOULD work, I guarantee it.
Matt
Talk to me, I'm listening
Sales/Marketing is easy see! I have your attention.
You expect me to just tell you? For free?
What sort of a business man do you think I am ;)
Saying that I think there is a huge market youve probably not considered approaching yet.
Are you trying to make me beg?
No no! I was just turning the tables a little to be honest ;)
The angle I was coming from was......what countries do you market yourself in? Canada? USA? UK?
I've got subscribers in the UK, Canada, US, and Australia too.
This stuff works in any free market economy. If you're in one, I can help you.
Yes I thought Australia might be one of your target areas, they have a similiar window-cleaning régime to the US and Canada I beieve.
So what is stopping you from expanding into other areas of Europe, Russia, theres a Russian window-cleaner comes on here http://www.moemgorod.ru/ how about Iceland, Poland, Ukraine, Middle East?
Just the language barrier, but even then I may have some options there...
I DO have one subscriber in Poland, actually, now that you mention it :)
Or maybe he simply bought a book outright...I cant remember
We in the Uk do not clean on a 6 monthy or yearly basis, we turn up each week or every 2 - 4 - 6 or maybe 8 weeks..
We already charge £10 a clean, which can work out at £520 or $915 canadian dollars a year, how are you going to increase this?
Kevin, I know how you could (with very little effort on your part, based on devoting your time for a limited period only; but with permanent benefit) increase your revenue 4/5/6 maybe 10 fold. Possibly 20!
Does that sound like a nice plan to you?
It WOULD work, I guarantee it.
Matt
Talk to me, I'm listening
Sales/Marketing is easy see! I have your attention.
You expect me to just tell you? For free?
What sort of a business man do you think I am ;)
Saying that I think there is a huge market youve probably not considered approaching yet.
Are you trying to make me beg?
No no! I was just turning the tables a little to be honest ;)
The angle I was coming from was......what countries do you market yourself in? Canada? USA? UK?
I've got subscribers in the UK, Canada, US, and Australia too.
This stuff works in any free market economy. If you're in one, I can help you.
Yes I thought Australia might be one of your target areas, they have a similiar window-cleaning régime to the US and Canada I beieve.
So what is stopping you from expanding into other areas of Europe, Russia, theres a Russian window-cleaner comes on here http://www.moemgorod.ru/ how about Iceland, Poland, Ukraine, Middle East?
Just the language barrier, but even then I may have some options there...
I DO have one subscriber in Poland, actually, now that you mention it :)
Or maybe he simply bought a book outright...I cant remember
Yup!!
Thats it!!
One issue, language!
So go out there and learn it.
Whats stopping you?
It opens up a whole new sphere of customers to you.
Thats what you'd suggest to others who came to you.
There are guys on here who work abroad and have learnt the language. Pingu on here is English but works in Holland he speaks Dutch.
The more languages you learn the wider your market.
Im surprised you havent already cottoned on ;D
Matt
Kevin, I know how you could (with very little effort on your part, based on devoting your time for a limited period only; but with permanent benefit) increase your revenue 4/5/6 maybe 10 fold. Possibly 20!
Does that sound like a nice plan to you?
It WOULD work, I guarantee it.
Matt
Talk to me, I'm listening
Sales/Marketing is easy see! I have your attention.
You expect me to just tell you? For free?
What sort of a business man do you think I am ;)
Saying that I think there is a huge market youve probably not considered approaching yet.
Are you trying to make me beg?
No no! I was just turning the tables a little to be honest ;)
The angle I was coming from was......what countries do you market yourself in? Canada? USA? UK?
I've got subscribers in the UK, Canada, US, and Australia too.
This stuff works in any free market economy. If you're in one, I can help you.
Yes I thought Australia might be one of your target areas, they have a similiar window-cleaning régime to the US and Canada I beieve.
So what is stopping you from expanding into other areas of Europe, Russia, theres a Russian window-cleaner comes on here http://www.moemgorod.ru/ how about Iceland, Poland, Ukraine, Middle East?
Just the language barrier, but even then I may have some options there...
I DO have one subscriber in Poland, actually, now that you mention it :)
Or maybe he simply bought a book outright...I cant remember
Yup!!
Thats it!!
One issue, language!
So go out there and learn it.
Whats stopping you?
It opens up a whole new sphere of customers to you.
Thats what you'd suggest to others who came to you.
There are guys on here who work abroad and have learnt the language. Pingu on here is English but works in Holland he speaks Dutch.
The more languages you learn the wider your market.
Im surprised you havent already cottoned on ;D
Matt
Perhaps I should hire you to spearhead this!
Nah, I appreciate the advice, and you're right, matt, thx man.
I'll seriously consider that, once a bit more time goes by!
dont waste your time m8... the cultural difference is HUGE...its a pointless debate...your on different wave lengths.... thats why the topic has gone on and on and on and on and on ....there is a huge communication barrier....lets just agree to disagree ::)...
Im fluent in Dutch, French, Polish, German, Ukrainian, Russian, Swahili, Danish, Swedish Ive been known to turn my tongue to English on the odd occassion ::) if your interested :o
Did you get my e-mail Kevin?
(don't know the danish or swedish ones)
:)
Did you get my e-mail Kevin?
yes, sir, replied just now
(don't know the danish or swedish ones)
:)
Hvordan har du det? ;)
$97 us dollars which is around £70 :o but you do get free p&p, well I have 10 ::)
You sign up for a 39 page report every month for £300 a year 8).
Well what am I getting?
He didn't give 1 marketing idea that will be in this monthy issue or any of the issues, he just kept on flipping though it, while going on that its got this and that in it, but he never gave an example of what it might be? ???
His sales approach and method was also top grade as well :o, I mean give us some respect >:(, you want our money yet you could not get someone to hold the camera for you
The part I did pick up on though was how he is going to show you how to get the maximum amount of money for window cleaning in your area, this he is going to charge you £70 for or £300 if you are really lucky.
Well all you have to do is kept increasing you rates until the customers start to cancel, you have now reached the maximum that they are willing to pay.
This secret is free of charge, if you want to make a donation, please make it to the NSPCC.
I really wish I could sit down with you "live" and respond to you in person.
I really do...alas, I am pretty far away.
Read it all ............................. ::)
Thought prevoking thread, tbh both hydro and Kevin have posted somethings that will at the very least give some good marketing ideas to everyone who is open minded in this regard.
Good to see a mature thread that didnt break into the usual bitchin and spoil the useful content.
I think you missed my point, That leaflet I can genuinely see working in the USA but the differences between operations in the USA and the UK is the key to any failings of this leaflet. I feel you have designed it based on your local market and maybe didn't realise the differences in the respective markets. You also ignored my question regarding the guarantee! I thought it was fairly staright forward enough. How do you define stays clean 4 times longer? As I was saying it doesn't matter how clever your marketing is if it opens a can of worms - Hence the question!Sorry But I think the second leaflet is nothing special it's ok but not spectacular.
This isn't a dig at you just my observations ;)
I wish I had time to address all this stuff.
I think we should do a conference call or something, for real.
I kept your first sentence and last sentence above, simply because I wanted to make the point that it doesn't matter what WE think or even what I think.
All that matters is results.
Everything else is ego stuff.
1000's of books and examples have established proven marketing strategy as being effective.
Use more of this proven stuff, and you'll make more $$
Like I said, I have a TON to say in reply to this post...wish I could...
I think you miss the point, dont copy it but apply the principles.
I think you missed my point, That leaflet I can genuinely see working in the USA but the differences between operations in the USA and the UK is the key to any failings of this leaflet. I feel you have designed it based on your local market and maybe didn't realise the differences in the respective markets. You also ignored my question regarding the guarantee! I thought it was fairly staright forward enough. How do you define stays clean 4 times longer? As I was saying it doesn't matter how clever your marketing is if it opens a can of worms - Hence the question!
Finally yes you are right! My opinion (or yours) doesn't really matter the results will do the talking and I hope I am proved wrong but I know what my gut feeling is on it. I await the results with interest!
Pete ;)
If any one does want marketing help.
May I recomend http://www.create-presence.com/
If you ask for Fran Connop, I am sure she will be helpful, if you mention William from Pure HYDRO Cleaners a member of the Edgbaston Bob Club recomended her I would be grateful.
I will contact her in the morning to let her know thats she will be getting loads of calls, as I won't see her until next Tuesday at the next Business Networking Event I go too.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AS promised I have just spoken to "Fran" and she is waiting for your calls, its not going to cost you a penny to see if she can be of help to you and your business, but you will make ££££ from her advice..
and before you start to think that a "professional" is going to cost you loads, well she has given me some prices and well "it cheap as chips" ;D.
I off now to clean a few golf clubs while I still have them 8)
Not at all Bear, I fully get I was just saying what my observations of the leaflet were simple as that. At no point have I commented on the principles behind it so I don't really get what point you are trying to make! I just believe that the leaflet would be more effective in the US than here. If you look at my last post you will see that is what I said and also agreed with Mr coach that only time will tell and if I am proved wrong then great! I will happily admit I am wrong and learn from it.
The only other thing I commented on was the wording of the guarantee. Again at no point have I mentioned the principles behind it so what point am I meant to of missed?
I think you miss the point, dont copy it but apply the principles.
Alright stu ! ;)
;D ;D
You aint kicking that dog again are you? ;)
apparently i can now have it free if i subscribe at $us 40.
does he understand the great british public and their expectations.
Pretty sure, yup. So far, a whole whack of brits have given me the nod on this book, and found that it's really helped them
Here's one of them:
http://robinson-solutions.blogspot.com/2009/01/window-cleaning-business-coach-book.html
uk wc's understand pricing, 10 customers in one road @ £10 is worth £100, 6@ £12 is worth £ 72 then you need to drive to the next road. how many would you do @ £40 and how long would you spend on the road between jobs
I'm not sure why you guys are obsessing about quadruple pricing models. I am not insisting that you quadruple your pricing.
What if you simply tried to charge £20, and asked yourself" "I wonder what I would have to do, for this prospect to be happy giving me £20 per clean?"
And, by the way, if you did raise your prices to £20/clean, you'd only have to work half as much, for the same money you make now.
and as for clever marketing techniques, the customer wants clean windows all year round, no watermarks or dirty frames/cills and they will stick with that wc wether he smiles or not.
Okay, then I guess the world of marketing is all smoke and mirrors, with no value in the real world, and the british folk in your neighburhoods are not susceptible to its power :)
if kevin stopped promoting himself long enough to listen he might learn from us.
reduce the price of this book by a third and let it sell itself without this intensive marketing and promotion, there comes a point where the volume of sales means more profit from a tighter margin. there is no limit to the number books you can produce. whereas there is a limit to a wc's time , dont confuse these very different kinds of supply.
Why not sell it for £1? Why stop at £30? I'm sure some would find issue and complain with that price, too.
when i started in business some 30 yrs ago i was told by an old hand that you can shear a sheep as often as you like but you will only fleece it once. sound advice that is as valid today as it was then.
If you sincerely believe that a measly, TINY price like £68 is "fleecing" you, then I think you really should read this book, and start tapping into the power of marketing. If this book doesn't help you earn 100 times what it costs you - in 2009 even - then I'll give you your money back. I'm serious.
Stop complaining and start applying. I could charge you £500 for this book, and look you in the eye and tell you its going to pay for itself many times over in the next 12 months, but I'd rather let you read it for £68 (as of today's exchange rate, anyway!).
rather than trying to get us to market more aggressively (at the end of the day he doesnt give a monkeys chuff about our business' , he just wants to sell his book) he should consider introducing monthly maintenance cleans to canada he could clean up,
I suppose you don't give a monkeys chuff about your window cleaning clients, either, then, to use your reasoning.
(DISCLAIMER: I'm not sure exactly what a monkey's chuff is :) )
im still not convinced about this book,if it was cheaper i would need less convincing to take a punt
Please keep your £, this book isn't for you.
Mike
You will find everything the "coach" is saying, in hundreds of marketing books by hundreds of authors, some even well known (Alan Sugar and a couple of Dragon Den members for instance) and most are less aggressive in their methods of marketing ideas.
The price for these can vary, but most are cheaper than the canadian version, also your local libuary will have a good selection, which won;t cost you a penny to read.
Bear hit the nail on the head when he said we're missing the point. The majority of us have got hung up on cultural differences and guarantees and do a good job and they'll see how good we are etc etc.
The coach is promoting his marketing knowledge and not how to do a good job, or how to run our window cleaning business day to day.
Exactly, marketing only. I own and run a window cleaning business, too, but I'm not attempting to help others master all the nuances involved in that...
I think of marketing as about better understanding the market in which i operate and how make my services appear attractive or even necessary to a potential customer.
That's a pretty good definition, Mark
I would define marketing this way (slightly different):
Anything we wittingly do in an effort to motivate a prospect to give us their hard-earned money, as much and as often as possible.
With the window cleaning business isn't it about getting our feet in the door? Once we are in there is when doing a good job comes into it, i think.
Exactly, again. Being awesome only counts once we have a chance to DO the work, but we'll never get that chance until we motivate them to try us out.
I don't think i will be subscribing but i am grateful for the coach in contributing to this thread. One thing i notice is how well the coach has handled himself in the face of sceptic audience. I think that is another cultural difference. The majority of us would have got the hump with rephrasing the same message over and over, in the hope that someone understood this way of saying it.
I also pointed out differences, mainly out of curiosity. I was all ears earlier on in the thread, but i'm now convinced that what the coach has to say carries as much relevance over here as in north america.
I appreciate that, thx. And you're right, it does. ANY free market economy, in fact.
Anglicise some words if need be but the goal is still the same.
Kevin (coach), you have debated well and have drawn some good info from some on here. I hope you continue contributing on here regardless of book sales or subscriptions gained, cos marketing is something that doesn't get debated to this degree on here often.
Thx Mark
Even Discount has tried a couple of times to generate some marketing or business angle but even he eventually dies a death. There has been a bit of oomph in the ideas exchanged on here.
Just for those here is the flyer that Kevin D worked on;
The first is my original flyer the second Kevin D's
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff85/Kevinred101/Scanflyer.jpg)
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff85/Kevinred101/UK-flier-WCBC.jpg)
I may not be a marketing genus, I rather leave that to the ones who live and breath it as a full time career, but I do know what works and what dosen't for me.
Remember, it doesn't matter what you think, or what works for you. Try it, test it, and rule it out before you go on a rant again.
Everyone on this site has done some form of leaflet drop, with varying decrees of sucess, but overall the conversion rate has worked out out 5 jobs per 1000 leaflets delivered.
Wow. So your proven marketing skills are giving you a 0.5% conversion rate? And you are dismissing a fresh, leveraged marketing tool?
How is it best way to get my leaflet to work? is the "holy grail" question.
Lets look on how we read those leaflets that are pushed though are door on a daily basis, what do you do when one drops on you doormat? have a good think about this because its important on how you construct your leaflet.
Now lets look at what does happen, the brain takes a couple of seconds to scan the leaflet and if it does not find anything that it likes it reject it.
So for those seconds we need our leaflet to grab the brains attention to carry on reading, with the leaflets that have seen debated, lets look at them.
The 1st one is set out quite simply and you are drawn to the words "window cleaner" which is what you want, because this will carry your message to them and if they have thought about getting a window cleaner then they will read on.
Now do we need them to read everything that you do and don't do, how you do it, in fact everything is there except the price, after they have absorded all of this information there are no question left, they can ask you apart from the price.
The whole point of this leaflet drop is to generate telephone calls to your business, where you can sell "yourself" and your "business".
By answering these question that you have freely and wastefully given away on the leaflet you have taken away the opportunity for them to call you.
The second leaflet, well does it convay the message that you are a "window cleaner"?.
Those first few seconds where the brain is going to make its decision, you are drawn to the picture image of a couple who seem to like the warm of a duffet. So is this leaflet trying to sell me bedding? or because they seem so cosy maybe "central heating" in fact it dosen't "scream" out that you are a window cleaner, until you come to the small print, but by them the 2 seconds have elasped and the brain has rejected the leaflet to the waste bin.
Try something simple like
Window Cleaner
CALL ME
The brain now has scanned everthing in those most important seconds, and it will make it decision on whether it wants more information on window cleaning, if it does then they have no choose but to call you.
Once they called you, then you sell yourelf and your business and the customer is yours.
i'm 100% with you on that one Hydro
i've learnt through hard experiance what works and what doesnt,you dont even get 2 seconds to catch their eye before the flyer is screwed up and binned. they see the words window cleaner..............think " i need my windows doing" and keep the leaflet, thats when your selling can start. competition is going to get tighter, prices will come down. only the better ones will survive . we all know this
What has your experience been, trying something along these lines? Can you give us an example to chew on, or to support your statement that you 'know what doesn't work through hard experience'?
kevin has told me to keep my money as his book is not for me, i think hes right, hes made an error on the style of leaflet that will work in the uk market, how sound is the rest of his advice.
Here we go, again. Why not get out there and try something proven that tens of thousands of marketing books are trying (in vain) to teach you to implement, my own included.
£67 is alot of money for a book , you can get excellant marketing books for half that. the usp on this one is that it is written by a wc for wcs now he tells me its a marketing book not a book about promoting and building a successful wc business.
I think you might have just contradicted yourself, but I don't really understand what you're saying here.
his replies to the posts on here have revealed his lack of understanding of the uk market, the worst part is he wont listen and learn from those that have the experiance.
Like you, right? And our peer Hydro? Listen, you guys:
You would rather keep at your 0.5% response rate, I get it, and you hate the fact that I'm openly saying that you're incorrect, so I'm sorry if you feel hurt. Try not to take it personally.
This is about your business, not you. You're wrong about your marketing strategy, and the value of your existing window cleaning marketing tools.
However, that doesn't make you dumb or unintelligent, you just don't know any better.
In fact, you could both easily be smarter than me, I don't know. You may not be, but you may be.
Unfortunately, smart doesn't cut it when it comes to marketing your business, education, training, and implementation does.
Start considering the idea that you could benefit from a little marketing education, and your business will make more quid on 2009.
Or keep throwing rocks at the cars driving by. It's up to you.
keep doling out the advice Hydro , i have yet to disagre with anything you have said on this forum, hopefully those new to the trade will learn and grow their business' into successfull and proffessional outfits.
I thought that that was two different sides to the same leaflet!
I think they are both very good and the second one was imaginative too.
The bottom one caught my eye and as a wfp over trad leaflet it looks good.
In fact because I wasn't immediately sure what it was about is what made me look further. Or maybe the good-looking couple in bed and the "leave your curtains open" subconsciously reached a part of me that I wouldn't normally admit to?
If I had a trad w/c that leaflet would appeal to me. I might even have one picture of with the inside view of a brush cleaning a window from below with a wallet on it's inside sill to imply that what can be seen from the top of a ladder might become a temptation.
The second one "made me smile" which is good for marketing isn't it?
You see the leaflet, you take it in, you smile and you think better of what is being offered ... well that's what Olivetti told me when I sold their typewriters with the Mr. Men campaign.
Simple marketing can have dramatic results.
Look at McDonalds in their recent advertising campaign, they just used the letter "M" which was in a yellow font.
This was brilliant, no confusion over what the message is trying to express, a simple "M" say have "a burger".
Job done
If there are simply ways to get across what you want to say, why look for a harder method of doing it.
Not at all Bear, I fully get I was just saying what my observations of the leaflet were simple as that. At no point have I commented on the principles behind it so I don't really get what point you are trying to make! I just believe that the leaflet would be more effective in the US than here. If you look at my last post you will see that is what I said and also agreed with Mr coach that only time will tell and if I am proved wrong then great! I will happily admit I am wrong and learn from it.
The only other thing I commented on was the wording of the guarantee. Again at no point have I mentioned the principles behind it so what point am I meant to of missed?
Oh, sorry, about the guarantee: What do you need to know?
Make the guarantee airtight, and promise that they will love both your workmanship and their entire service experience with your company, or else they won't pay.
Stand behind your work and company 100%, and people will more readily trust you with their business and their money.
Simple marketing can have dramatic results.
Look at McDonalds in their recent advertising campaign, they just used the letter "M" which was in a yellow font.
This was brilliant, no confusion over what the message is trying to express, a simple "M" say have "a burger".
Job done
If there are simply ways to get across what you want to say, why look for a harder method of doing it.
He is a link which will give you all the figures on door drops (leafleting)
http://www.linkdirect.co.uk/door_drop_research.php
By the way you cannot dismiss true facts and figures.
He is a link which will give you all the figures on door drops (leafleting)
http://www.linkdirect.co.uk/door_drop_research.php
By the way you cannot dismiss true facts and figures.
Im not taking sides here but thats like asking McDonalds who sells the best burgers on the High Street ;D
Of course theyre going to say it works, theyre trying to sell you the service.
Whos the best carpet and window-cleaning company in Birmingham?
Another negative attack by the coach.
It seems that anyone who does not agree with him is dismissed with remarks, that are very juvernile.
If we are that dumb, that we cannot understand marketing why does he not give real advice, instead of sniping and whining like a "little boy" who can't get his own way.
He says that I have repeated the same questions and his answers over 10 times already, well please cut and paste them so we can all see, because I seem to only remember analyzing the leaflet that he worked on once.
It is also strange that he has not pointed out in his sneering way where I am wrong on the leaflet he worked on.
I also showed an example of marketing that "McDonalds" did and which backed up my claim to make it simply, instead of being over complicated.
Is the silence on this, because I am right, or does he not want to make himself look even more foolish by saying that the marketing EXPERTS at "McDonalds" are wrong.
Like I said, if you want proper marketing advice go to the experts who's career is dedicated to this task, don't go to a part-time wannabe newbie.
Yes that was what I was getting at - How is your guarantee watertight?
In that you remove all the risk, and mean what you say.
For instance, I've said that if you read my entire book, and don't love it, you can send it back and receive a full refund, and I mean it.
For my window cleaning business I have a similar angle, promising that if they are not completely satisfied with both our workmanship, and their entire service experience working with our company, than they won't pay a cent.
Seems too wide open, right? Totally subjective, to their opinion of what constitutes "completely satisfied"? Thats the whole point, which makes them feel empowered, truly removing risk and motivating them to give you their money.
It's all ok putting it on a leaflet but have you considered the terms of the guarantee?
Ooops, spoke too soon, please see above.
You might think I am being pedantic but the leaflet could be a runaway success and bring in customers left right and centre. But these new customers have read the leaflet, seen the guarantee and in THEIR minds the windows haven't stayed clean for 4 times longer so they get on the phone.
Okay, so if this number scares you, then choose a different measurement of time. Say "if your windows don't stay clean longer than your mother-in-law's surprise visits, than you won't have to pay a pence!" or something like that.
Thats kind of a poorly worded example, but I'm sure you get the point.
In the end, you have to promise that you're a man of your word, and that their needs and preferences will be met, and you have to put your money where your mouth is.
You offered a non committal time span so therefore you have to honor it. That was my point. The original leaflet didn't specify a time period that the windows to stay cleaner for where as the second one put the idea in their mind that it would stay cleaner for 4 times longer. My point was (and is) that it's all very well putting it on the leaflet because it looks good and helps portray the image of a professional company you can trust but have you thought the whole guarantee through?
Yup, very much so.
People will not rip you off for nothing, unless you're cleaning a prison. Keep your word, make a big, bold, brash promise, and keep it. And of course, if they ever call you on it, and don't back down, then give them their money back. Even if 1 out of 100 try and rip you off (which they won't) you still win by a landslide, because the valuable prospects give you their business, too, recognizing your authenticity.
That was the reason I was asking about it. A basic rule of marketing is don't promise what you can't deliver hence the questioning regarding it.
Amen.
Others on here may think I am making something out of nothing, I don't know but to me this is an issue with the leaflet hence the questions & concern!
No, those are good questions. I hope my answers sounded clear.
He is a link which will give you all the figures on door drops (leafleting)
http://www.linkdirect.co.uk/door_drop_research.php
By the way you cannot dismiss true facts and figures.
Just a few interesting Professional Marketing Sites by Experts
http://www.cardellmedia.co.uk/Yahoo/marketing15.html?utm_source=yahoo&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Marketing_002
http://www.brightermarketing.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=44&Itemid=56
http://www.marketingtipsandideas.com/
http://www.cardellmedia.co.uk/marketingtips2.html?source=16_Marketing_Tips&utm_source=yahoo&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Marketing%2BTips_001
He is a link which will give you all the figures on door drops (leafleting)
http://www.linkdirect.co.uk/door_drop_research.php
By the way you cannot dismiss true facts and figures.
Um, what is the point from this site? That people read fliers a LOT.
Sweet. Make yours awesome, then!
Just a few interesting Professional Marketing Sites by Experts
http://www.cardellmedia.co.uk/Yahoo/marketing15.html?utm_source=yahoo&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Marketing_002
http://www.brightermarketing.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=44&Itemid=56
http://www.marketingtipsandideas.com/
http://www.cardellmedia.co.uk/marketingtips2.html?source=16_Marketing_Tips&utm_source=yahoo&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Marketing%2BTips_001
I give up man, you are on some sort of rampage here, so I'm done.
Another negative attack by the coach.
It seems that anyone who does not agree with him is dismissed with remarks, that are very juvernile.
If we are that dumb, that we cannot understand marketing why does he not give real advice, instead of sniping and whining like a "little boy" who can't get his own way.
I believe I said you are NOT dumb. Did you misunderstand me?
Please see my blog, and the many videos and downloads and free chapters, and recorded video broadcasts. or perhaps the actual marketing tool that is on this thread that I made from scratch to show every one of you.
Here's a start for you, in case you hadn't looked:
My free blog:
http://windowcleaningbusinesscoach.com/coach/
Sign up for 2 free chapters of my book:
http://windowcleaningbusinesscoach.com/
A free video recording of the 35-minute Marketing Seminar I presented in Nov 2008, down in Rhode Island, USA: http://dossier-content.s3.amazonaws.com/index.htm
Is this not all advice? REAL advice?
I suppose I could repeat it all here on this thread, but it's not very efficient, so please see those links, and all my posts here and on other forums instead.
He says that I have repeated the same questions and his answers over 10 times already, well please cut and paste them so we can all see, because I seem to only remember analyzing the leaflet that he worked on once.
It is also strange that he has not pointed out in his sneering way where I am wrong on the leaflet he worked on.
Okay, let me say it for the FIRST ( :) ) time, then:
You are dead wrong for dismissing the leaflet on the basis of your personal preference, it is a mistake. It doesn't matter what you think, it only matters what has been proven in thousands of marketing studies to work.
Here are some of the proven marketing strategies built into that leaflet:
Benefit-oriented imagery
Unorthodox layout and look
Strong, curiosity-arousing headline
One clear, primary benefit pounded home
Many additional benefits of other features
Clear calls to specific actions
Deadline-driven, creative, appealing offer
Fun
Story-like approach
Strong, airtight guarantee
I also showed an example of marketing that "McDonalds" did and which backed up my claim to make it simply, instead of being over complicated.
Is the silence on this, because I am right, or does he not want to make himself look even more foolish by saying that the marketing EXPERTS at "McDonalds" are wrong.
Umm, I was silent on this? I think you may have missed a paragraph.
Like I said, if you want proper marketing advice go to the experts who's career is dedicated to this task, don't go to a part-time wannabe newbie.
See, Hydro, you have some issues with me, which is okay.
We're all human, and I rub you the wrong way. Obviously.
In the interests of not making you feel dismissed or emotionally-injured, I will refrain from similar name-calling.
Call me a part-time wannabe newbie if you wish, but don't trick yourself into thinking it's true.
so here we go again with the personal attacks from the coach, im now a dumb ,stone throwing hick
i have been trying to ascertain wether this book is worth buying at £67
the lads on another forum rate this book as worth the £25 they paid for theirs
they wont comment on wether its worth the £67............. that speaks volumes
its not the cost thats the issue, its tax deductable
like any other business i am looking to improve every aspect , especially profit
and will happily pay twice that if it contains the inormation i need to do so
hydro asked for advice on a leaflet, the coaches leaflet had a fundamenal flaw............it did not scream window cleaner
how do i know this......................from producing leaflets that looked the mutts nuts
but didnt get a single response.............by talking to guys in marketing i found out where i was going wrong and revised my flyers.........my flyers now get results
so i shall ask again what is it that makes this book worth 67 of my hard earned £
He is a link which will give you all the figures on door drops (leafleting)
http://www.linkdirect.co.uk/door_drop_research.php
By the way you cannot dismiss true facts and figures.
Um, what is the point from this site? That people read fliers a LOT.
Sweet. Make yours awesome, then!
Yes that is the point, a lot of people do read leaflets and getting it right will pay dividends, getting it wrong will be a waste of money.
On your worked leaflet I pointed out why "I" thought it was wrong and in what way it was wrong, instead of addressing those points you embark on another attack on me.
I have used many leaflets and flyers, some have been very crude, some have been simple but basic, while others have used your methods and looked very cool, I know what worked for me and what results they generated you don't, yet you de-rided my opinions.
All because I disagree with you does not make me wrong, you are in another country with different attitudes and thinkings, I live in this country and I am more in tune with how we think, the same as you are more in tune on how Canadians think.
David send me your email and I will send you the flyer that I have found works best for me, I have tried up loading onto the forum but it won't allow me, properly doing something wrong, you can posted on this site if you want.
David send me your email and I will send you the flyer that I have found works best for me, I have tried up loading onto the forum but it won't allow me, properly doing something wrong, you can posted on this site if you want.
Thats very civil of you Hydro.
My email is - slater445@googlemail.com
I'll try and work it into a format for posting on here.
Regards
David.
What's the website link for the dossier again?
ok coach
i give in, i wanted to know if the contents of your book are worth £67
instead of proving they are you went back on the attack
what does that tell me
i gave you an oppurtunity to promote your book direct on here
i have read all your answers on this forum and your links
im still none the wiser
Is this the new "2009 recession edition" that's being sent out now,.. or do I have to wait for that?
:)
exactomondo craig, i had all sorts planned.
Chris Cardell is very like coach, except that chris doesn't clean windows, and he is as much about strategy as marketing but what sets coach apart, aside from being a lot cheaper, is that he is ever so slightly nuts.
HEY!!
This is what i find so brilliant about him and want to see more of.
Ohhh...okay :)
To get the best out of coach you need to ask him questions. I can't for the life of me understand the self justification element of people trying to validate themselves by attacking him.
That makes two of us.
David, you are a nice guy, but you think in straight lines. I'm sure all hydros stuff is excellent, but that's not the point we are being given a lesson in selling window cleaning as an experience. (geek squad, starbucks, greenthumb etc). But all you seem to want to hear is about a commodity sales pitch (tesco, asda,netto).
Good point, Discount. And the experience begins with our marketing materials. They create the buying atmosphere in which the prospect is motivated to take the desired action.
Is this the new "2009 recession edition" that's being sent out now,.. or do I have to wait for that?
:)
Actually, I would rather give you a "2009 - Recession Edition" instead, if you don't mind waiting a couple weeks...
It's even better, in MANY ways, and will be available for a few days at a deep discount, once it's released Feb 1/09.
Yeah, hold off, actually.
Is this the new "2009 recession edition" that's being sent out now,.. or do I have to wait for that?
:)
Actually, I would rather give you a "2009 - Recession Edition" instead, if you don't mind waiting a couple weeks...
It's even better, in MANY ways, and will be available for a few days at a deep discount, once it's released Feb 1/09.
Yeah, hold off, actually.
I can wait a couple of weeks,... a sneak preview or 2 to tide us over might be good,...
:)
hydro are these the flyers that have worked well for you??
iv tried very simalar ones prob around 20k each with out little joy? maybe its the area but this is why i feel flyers are all about luck some will swear by them some havent got the time
coach i just signed up.. but i want that one..
coach could i run idea by yourself and could you let me know what you think..tried discount but hes not playing...
is that residential??hydro are these the flyers that have worked well for you??
iv tried very simalar ones prob around 20k each with out little joy? maybe its the area but this is why i feel flyers are all about luck some will swear by them some havent got the time
Yes both have generated me business, but the one with the pictures, does do better, in fact I confirmed a contract yesterday from one which was sent out last march, 4 cleans a year for £2000 so well worth the wait.
is that residential??hydro are these the flyers that have worked well for you??
iv tried very simalar ones prob around 20k each with out little joy? maybe its the area but this is why i feel flyers are all about luck some will swear by them some havent got the time
Yes both have generated me business, but the one with the pictures, does do better, in fact I confirmed a contract yesterday from one which was sent out last march, 4 cleans a year for £2000 so well worth the wait.
if commercial which i presume i prob means you got lucky with house you put it through and we all need luck, i have a meeting thurs for a management company who could be making me there only window cleaner all done to luck ill tell you the story.....
i went to get some quotes for portfolios made they showed me a couple they had price were to much but i noticed one was a management compny so i asked if i could keep....unfortunately they said i couldnt and i walked out of the shop thinking it was a oppertyunity missed...
then has i drove off i seen about 300m down the road while at traffic lights the same company, so i rang did some work and know there that impressed with my service i could become there only window cleaner meaningdouble figuers to start.
now if i didnt go for some portfolio quotes or didnt notice the brochure i was shown or didnt look left at the lights i prob wouldnt be in this situation.
Luck is a big part of everything and we all needit.....
Your flyers work for you which is good but iv tried about 90k delivered and for what its cost it just isnt worth it to me........
hi hydro
results like that show that your flyers are hitting their mark and getting you leads
the results are down to your salesmanship
im a believer of "if t aint broke dont fix it"
alarm bells rang with the coach when he asked one poster to find out how many kids, what interests etc his targets had. could you imagine the logistical nightmare of sorting that out and leafleting each individual
thats when i started to think this guys a fruit loop/ does he really understand the uk market
every time i ask about the price or question somethings hes said he goes on the attack
it will be interesting to hear from those who bought the book wether its worth the money or would they rather have paid the old price of £25
Mike, e-mail him from his website :-*
thanks Matt.
If you need a one to one advice then I would reccomend that you go to a marketing company, because they will be able to target you needs on how you operate your company and what you want, not some pieces of information that will have no effect on your business.
The members on this forum have between them enough marketing ideas that are a benefit to uk window cleaners and if you asked for help they would as usual come forward.
If you need a one to one advice then I would reccomend that you go to a marketing company, because they will be able to target you needs on how you operate your company and what you want, not some pieces of information that will have no effect on your business.
Most on here struggle to buy kit let alone employ a marketing company. No offense but marketing companies do charge a lot more hourly then the average window cleaner
The members on this forum have between them enough marketing ideas that are a benefit to uk window cleaners and if you asked for help they would as usual come forward.
That may be so on the residential side, but not many window cleaners manage to acquire commercial work and this is usually due to poor marketing skills. Also those with some tried and tested commercial marketing skills usually keep quiet - I know I do
I do not know the reason he was banned but from what he said about "advertising costs", maybe it was because he was a suppiler and mike has said, if suppliers who are peddling their wears on cleanituo then they have to pay for the priviledge.
Nathaneal is wrong because coach 'branded' thermoshine brilliantly and for the first time made it look like a credible marketing alternative to wash and reach systems.- i'll say no more but had it been me i would have egged him on to do a bit more, made him a guild consultant or honoury member-.
No one, and i do mean no one, is more conceited or has a higher opinion of themselves on this forum than i do, and considering the competition on here for big head of the year that's saying something, but i'm telling you coach was good.
He could hit the odd bum note such as using words like prospect, and he had the teachers habit being easily digressed, but the clarity of his thought was outstanding. What i take away with me is that i intend to offer my customers a premium window cleaning service at discount prices, if you like, champagne window cleaning at lemonade prices.
RIP coach
Sorry Discount, but i would have thought the idea was to get the highest prices possible and work less?
i think we deserve a reason why hes banned!!
we all come on here to help our business and he could of helped us all, he didnt do anything wrong has far has i could see so why ban him
i only no two whats other ones....
Then of course there is the conspiracy theory, as he had branded thermoshine into a credible marketing alternative to the market leader ionics, and as the only legit way of getting hold of the van transfer logo and promotional material is by parting with £15 to join the master guild of window cleaners then some might take the view that this would be the best £15 they would ever spend.
My spies tell me there is something of a signup stampede going on, so the conspiracy theory is that other organisations might be affected adversely.
email sent
I wonder how far you could push the coach without paying him any money. Give him canada, let him have the canadian thermoshine rights and maybe his own guild chapter over there. In return he provides the marketing package.
Just an idea.
Discount what trade organisation charges £200 for window cleaning?
The FWC are about £100 and no other organisation specifically for window cleaners comes close to the benefits they provide for the money, no matter how much less or more they charge.
For example, BWCA charge about £35 one third of the cost of the FWC but the FWC is many more time better than the BWCA so the FWC is better value.
mr H sent you an email.....
I've been thinking about it today, and the more i think about it the more i like it.Come on discount Join us and see what its all about. The guild is really going places just like I told you month ago so go on take a punt!!! Put your hand in your pocket you won't regret it ;)
To start with i thought you had done a fairish job of a logo and a descriptive term, a hook to hang our new hot systems on.But I didn't think about it too deeply.
I thought the guild crest was good too, and the strategy of a lower price point for belonging to a trade body would have been what i would have argued had i been on the pwc board.
Against that i didn't go a lot on your diy books.
Anyway, coach packaged it in a really engaging way so i am starting to think that you might have something of value.
It's my opinion that when you get input from a few people you can end up with something pretty good. When you ask the question what do i get for my £200 pa membership of trade body and the answer is not a lot, this does not play well against the £15 the guild charges for being a member of a profesional body and to have a marketing package tie in.
I wonder how far you could push the coach without paying him any money. Give him canada, let him have the canadian thermoshine rights and maybe his own guild chapter over there. In return he provides the marketing package.
Just an idea.
What truth is that? Pure Hydro
I agree hydro and am pretty sure that coach will pay and come back.
It's interesting what you say though, if you remember Paul Newman in the hustler, just before the marks broke his fingers with a pool que he asked "Why, you let the other guy go?"
They said "You're better than he was."
Then they broke his fingers.
It's slightly ironic that you should be the one to miss him. Fade to sound of twilight zone music.
So can harping on about that fact, tediously boring springs to mind.
Yes it might be boring, but if you believe that others can be wrongly affected by some of his advice, then he should be given free reign, until the time comes when it goes pear shape and someone says I knew that would happen, but I did not want to cause waves by pointing it out.
What truth is that? Pure Hydro
That all he has to say is freely available elsewhere, and also what he has said has some very fundamental flaws to them.
It would also be a good idea if there was a section on "Marketing and Business" ideas that everyone could post on, but not for profit, or dominated by one person.I very strongly agree with this and have mentioned it before. As you may know i am a bit of an anorak on this and read loads of business books, biographies, MBA types, and marketing.