[williamx]

I live and work in the Birmingham area of the UK and you are most welcome to come, I will give you as much help as I can and I already do for other cleaners in my area which there are quite a few.

Thx!

Sounds like no help would be needed at all!

Just fields and fields of low-hanging fruit, and not enough window cleaners to gorge themselves on it.

Cash in while you can. I might be coming to town...

Great, welcome to Blighty and I look forward to the day when you approach my customers with you pricing struture, one of them I charge £175 every 6 weeks, I can't wait to see their faces when you quote them £875 or another one who is charged £55 every 2 weeks, I bet they can't wait to start paying £275, or the lowest on my list who pay £10 every 4 weeks, what joy they will have paying £50.

All of these customers have been targeted in the past and they will be targeted also in the future, but they choose to stay with me, why, well I would like to think that its all about the service I give them and it cannot bettered or it could be they like me, bacause I like every single one of them, or as the one who pays £175 and was approched by someone at half the price "its better to stay with the devil you know rather than one you don't" andthey already know I ofer a ultra 1st service and they get presents every christmas as well my other customers.

Hydro,

Have you ever changed banks? No

Have you ever changed gas/electric suppliers? Yes, but won't do that again, complete nightmare
Have you ever changed insurance companies? Yes, but they have to give the same service or better for a cheaper price.

Have you ever changed suppliers for cleaning eq nowipment? no, I use every single one of them

Have you ever bought a different van from the one you're using? I on my 3 van, next one due in 2 years, will be the same as what I have got now.

Judging by your answer above, I presume you've been quite happy to stay with the same suppliers no matter what extra benefits/new inovations/reduced prices/special offers were offered by the competion?



....resting on your laurels springs to mind  

[David Slater]

I live and work in the Birmingham area of the UK and you are most welcome to come, I will give you as much help as I can and I already do for other cleaners in my area which there are quite a few.

Thx!

Sounds like no help would be needed at all!

Just fields and fields of low-hanging fruit, and not enough window cleaners to gorge themselves on it.

Cash in while you can. I might be coming to town...

Great, welcome to Blighty and I look forward to the day when you approach my customers with you pricing struture, one of them I charge £175 every 6 weeks, I can't wait to see their faces when you quote them £875 or another one who is charged £55 every 2 weeks, I bet they can't wait to start paying £275, or the lowest on my list who pay £10 every 4 weeks, what joy they will have paying £50.

All of these customers have been targeted in the past and they will be targeted also in the future, but they choose to stay with me, why, well I would like to think that its all about the service I give them and it cannot bettered or it could be they like me, bacause I like every single one of them, or as the one who pays £175 and was approched by someone at half the price "its better to stay with the devil you know rather than one you don't" andthey already know I ofer a ultra 1st service and they get presents every christmas as well my other customers.

Hydro,

Have you ever changed banks? No

Have you ever changed gas/electric suppliers? Yes, but won't do that again, complete nightmare
Have you ever changed insurance companies? Yes, but they have to give the same service or better for a cheaper price.

Have you ever changed suppliers for cleaning eq nowipment? no, I use every single one of them

Have you ever bought a different van from the one you're using? I on my 3 van, next one due in 2 years, will be the same as what I have got now.

Judging by your answer above, I presume you've been quite happy to stay with the same suppliers no matter what extra benefits/new inovations/reduced prices/special offers were offered by the competion?



....resting on your laurels springs to mind  

WOW!!!

So you're not that bothered what new manufacturers have to offer?

I take it you still you use ladders and squeegie?

Unfortunately, most customers DO move around. You only need to look at maneysuprmarket.com or Uswitch to see this.

Most customers today are quite used to changing suppliers at the drop of a hat.

Ask yourself - if customers are creatures of habit, how come sites like Uswitch and moneysupermarket get millions of hits every month?

Maybe you're unique?....but maybe not that unique, because you use all suppliers and I suppose that depends on who's offering the best deal?

How does your product differ from that of your suppliers?....why do you use one over the other?




I think you might be taking your customers for granted?

[williamx]

I never take my customers for granted and I am always looking for new equipment that will benefit my company.

As for the likes of uswitch and moneysupermarket, they don't have a section on window cleaners,yet, buts its a good idea maybe someone will start one soon.

But even if they did I feel that with what I offer my customers for what I charge would put me at the top of the list and if it didn't then I would adapt until it did.

I don't see why I should not shop around when  I want consuables like poles-resin and connectors or any other parts that I am likely to use, I know what are the good one are as well as the bad and if I can save money on the good ones from another company because they have a sale or promotion going on, well why not

But what I offer my customers is not a consuable its a window cleaning service, that is very good and at a price they find acceptable, if they come across someone who can beat me on a like for like basis then I will look at how I can future improve and even match or beat this new guy.

If he can beat my service and price, I don't see why I cannot do the same.

[Clive McDonald]

Window cleaning coach

I for one am prepared to call uncle on this and accept that you have proven your argument so far as i am concerned.Your leaflet derivation was brilliant, addressed my target audience absolutely, and was compelling in it's content . I even feel a little inspired and uplifted for having read it.

I am glad to have had this little chat with you and thought you handled the critisism well. Thanks for the lesson.

This is the first time i can recall anyone coming on here against a very large and vociferous hostile opinion and turning it around. I don't expect everyone will have the grace to give you the nod, but i do. well done.

[David Slater]

I never take my customers for granted and I am always looking for new equipment that will benefit my company.

As for the likes of uswitch and moneysupermarket, they don't have a section on window cleaners,yet, buts its a good idea maybe someone will start one soon.

But even if they did I feel that with what I offer my customers for what I charge would put me at the top of the list and if it didn't then I would adapt until it did.

I don't see why I should not shop around when  I want consuables like poles-resin and connectors or any other parts that I am likely to use, I know what are the good one are as well as the bad and if I can save money on the good ones from another company because they have a sale or promotion going on, well why not

But what I offer my customers is not a consuable its a window cleaning service, that is very good and at a price they find acceptable, if they come across someone who can beat me on a like for like basis then I will look at how I can future improve and even match or beat this new guy.

If he can beat my service and price, I don't see why I cannot do the same.

I think you'll find you're in the 'service sector'...which covers a multitude of sins!

You state that you'll quite happily change "suppliers" for equipment but cant see any reason for your customer to change his "supplier" of window cleaning services?

I think we've reached an impass.




The very best of luck to you in 2009 Hydro      

[Clive McDonald]

can't say i am much on the working three days a week thing. As a driven personality i would always want to work, or at least commit to something.

When i began reading this topic- started by matt of all people (ex slacker with a disdain for theory over practical)- my only real interest was to spectate a good row, and add the odd jibe myself.

I have to admitt though i have learned quite a lot and so i am quite chuffed because it doesn't happen that often.

[williamx]

I thoght I had covered this.

A custome is only going to think about replacing me for 2 reasons

1 He is unhappy with the service (i am doing a bad job)

2 Or someone approachs them with a service which is going to be better than what I am giving.

and there is a 3rd, the one who moves because of the cost

On the first 1 they will have already expressed their concerns, if I have not corrected this then I deserve to lose them.

The 2nd I am always looking at ways to improve what I offer, I have not increased my prices for some time because I have found other ways to make savings and therefore make more profit without the need for a price rise.

and the3rd, well there are always customers who move to the cheaper guy who arrives in the area, but when he lets them down or disappears and they want to come back on my list, they are welcome but they are treated as new customers which includes a new charge which is higher than what they use to pay, plus the double charge for a 1st clean.

All of my customers are aware of this.

Over the last 5 years I have seen so many wfp move into my area that its been mind boggling, 5 years ago I never saw another wfp for weeks on end, now I have turned up in a small cul de sac and there 3 of us, its quite funny to see.

The same applied to a shopping area I do, 5 years ago 5 of us would turn up every friday at the same time, now I'm the only one.

Unlike the commercial sector which does move its window cleaners around, the domestic market is more stable and loyal.

But yes I agree with you, you should never get complacent, it will happen to you if you do.

2009 will be the same as the last 5 years, I have my targets to make which I will get, like I have for the last 5 years, I don't want to sound cocky or better than you which I am not, but I have always had a deep sense that there is nothing that I cannot acheive.

The best of luck to you and all other window cleaners both on this side of the pond and the colonial side and like "spock" says go, "forth and prosper"

[David Slater]

I thoght I had covered this.

A custome is only going to think about replacing me for 2 reasons

1 He is unhappy with the service (i am doing a bad job)

2 Or someone approachs them with a service which is going to be better than what I am giving.

and there is a 3rd, the one who moves because of the cost

On the first 1 they will have already expressed their concerns, if I have not corrected this then I deserve to lose them.

The 2nd I am always looking at ways to improve what I offer, I have not increased my prices for some time because I have found other ways to make savings and therefore make more profit without the need for a price rise.

and the3rd, well there are always customers who move to the cheaper guy who arrives in the area, but when he lets them down or disappears and they want to come back on my list, they are welcome but they are treated as new customers which includes a new charge which is higher than what they use to pay, plus the double charge for a 1st clean.

All of my customers are aware of this.

Over the last 5 years I have seen so many wfp move into my area that its been mind boggling, 5 years ago I never saw another wfp for weeks on end, now I have turned up in a small cul de sac and there 3 of us, its quite funny to see.

The same applied to a shopping area I do, 5 years ago 5 of us would turn up every friday at the same time, now I'm the only one.

Unlike the commercial sector which does move its window cleaners around, the domestic market is more stable and loyal.

But yes I agree with you, you should never get complacent, it will happen to you if you do.

2009 will be the same as the last 5 years, I have my targets to make which I will get, like I have for the last 5 years, I don't want to sound cocky or better than you which I am not, but I have always had a deep sense that there is nothing that I cannot acheive.

The best of luck to you and all other window cleaners both on this side of the pond and the colonial side and like "spock" says go, "forth and prosper"

Hydro,

Sorry mate you're wrong!

The mobile phone companies call this the 'churn rate'

Mortagage providers call it 'Rate tarts'

Credit cards companies also call them 'Rate tarts'

...try a google search with "rate tart" 

I'd be very cautious moving into a deflationary/reccession period without taking note of these factors.

[Oakley Windows]

 

[peter holley]

the thing your all forgeting here is WE ARE JUST WINDOW CLEANERS....people dont look at moneysaving expert to save on wc....peoplek   just want their windows cleaned....you knock on their door and they are so pleased and very often say that they have been looking for  for a window cleaner for ages ...yet this very customer has had my flyer and probably 5 other flyers through the door..
WHY?

they expect YOU to go to themasTHEY cant be bothered ..window cleaning isnt at the top of their list , and whilst they want a wc , they forget to phone.

yes leaflets work, but door knocking wins every time...full stop.

WE EARN VERY VERY GOOD MONEY..BUT WE ARE JUST WINDOW CLEANERS...INSTEAD OF GLAMORISING THE JOB ..USE IT TO YOUR ADVANTAGE.....

[williamx]

I thoght I had covered this.

A custome is only going to think about replacing me for 2 reasons

1 He is unhappy with the service (i am doing a bad job)

2 Or someone approachs them with a service which is going to be better than what I am giving.

and there is a 3rd, the one who moves because of the cost

On the first 1 they will have already expressed their concerns, if I have not corrected this then I deserve to lose them.

The 2nd I am always looking at ways to improve what I offer, I have not increased my prices for some time because I have found other ways to make savings and therefore make more profit without the need for a price rise.

and the3rd, well there are always customers who move to the cheaper guy who arrives in the area, but when he lets them down or disappears and they want to come back on my list, they are welcome but they are treated as new customers which includes a new charge which is higher than what they use to pay, plus the double charge for a 1st clean.

All of my customers are aware of this.

Over the last 5 years I have seen so many wfp move into my area that its been mind boggling, 5 years ago I never saw another wfp for weeks on end, now I have turned up in a small cul de sac and there 3 of us, its quite funny to see.

The same applied to a shopping area I do, 5 years ago 5 of us would turn up every friday at the same time, now I'm the only one.

Unlike the commercial sector which does move its window cleaners around, the domestic market is more stable and loyal.

But yes I agree with you, you should never get complacent, it will happen to you if you do.

2009 will be the same as the last 5 years, I have my targets to make which I will get, like I have for the last 5 years, I don't want to sound cocky or better than you which I am not, but I have always had a deep sense that there is nothing that I cannot acheive.

The best of luck to you and all other window cleaners both on this side of the pond and the colonial side and like "spock" says go, "forth and prosper"

Hydro,

Sorry mate you're wrong!

The mobile phone companies call this the 'churn rate'

Mortagage providers call it 'Rate tarts'

Credit cards companies also call them 'Rate tarts'

...try a google search with "rate tart" 

I'd be very cautious moving into a deflationary/reccession period without taking note of these factors.

I have just googled "rate tart" and all this is about people moving debts around to delay the paying off process, this is good business practice providing you have the ability to pay when the time comes.

As far as the receesion or depression we are moving towards, well this has never had any effect on the window cleaner industry apart from more window cleaners coming into it.

When times get better they will disappear, we have a few on this site and they have said they off as some as their trade picks up again.

So far I have worked and survived though 3 recessions the late 70s the 80s the 90 and now we got the 00s, strange it seems to happen every 10 years.

Anyway I have other skills that is not only reliant on window cleaning, for instance I have been cleaning carpets since 1982 I was a very good transport manager for a world wide company, and even though I say so I was the damn good door to door salesman ( I could start up a company like roundbuilders which I have consided but in a different format)

Or I could just retire a little bit earlier, sell my business, which I value at 50k plus and retire to Africa and my little bar-shack on the Atlantic coast where I can live like a king on £250 a week.

[Nathanael Jones]

I like what has been done with Kevin R's flyer,... BUT,.. I've tried a few different types of flyer an this one is the ONLY one that I've gotten real results from. Below is the front & back of the flyer. I print them on A4 160gsm card both sides (Obviously they're turned upside down to print the back, otherwise it'd be the same message on both sides!) and cut down the middle to make A5 sized flyers. I'm interested to see what improvements are suggested,.. not just from Kevin,... lets see what can be done as I'm planning to drop flyers next week!!
 

[peter holley]

thats my point/!  why not just knock the door and ask?   give them a price... they say yes or no or think about it..much quicker and less hastle

[peter holley]

why is it that their are companies such as round builders or door knockers... that build rounds for a price?   do they leaflet or door knock?.....they door knock because while leaflets work, these companies need to build a customer base fast, to get paid for their services...why dont they leaflet?  answer IT TAKES LONGER TO GET A RETURN!

shoot me down if you like or as i expect not many answers ...as on this forum people dont like the truth.

rapid growth = door knocking

[matt]

can't say i am much on the working three days a week thing. As a driven personality i would always want to work, or at least commit to something.

When i began reading this topic- started by matt of all people (ex slacker with a disdain for theory over practical)- my only real interest was to spectate a good row, and add the odd jibe myself.

so your a 3 day a weeker then  Im shocked

on the subject of me and i started this thread, I am allways willing to learn and i know roughly 3 years down the line i will be in a postition to either work full time doing window cleaning or still work 3 days and have some1 else do some work ( i have the person in mind, i ex-apprentice-ish  of mine, who now drives a delivery lorry for a local firm, he was just a young lad who was employed as a laborer to fetch / carry and clean up after me, he was honest and said he wanted more, so asked me to teach him, i did, he was ok, but in the end he was earning nothing money and moved on to earn more as a driver )

so the idea of learning / improving marketing interested me

(ex slacker with a disdain for theory over practical)

the ex-slacker comment made me laugh

i admit, im a do'er in life, i get the job done, the theory side doesnt really bother me, though to be fair when i did my building studies HND i found the theory side of it bored me silly, i dont care for the reasons, just get the thing done

[Oakley Windows]

lets see what can be done as I'm planning to drop flyers next week!!

Areas 'cut' are for anonymity purposes.

[Clive McDonald]

Quite good matt,certainly a lot better than i expected and i can't think of any obvious improvements. There are a couple of syntax/ grammar errors.

I don't understand the weather part. You keep posting the forecast, i must be a bit slow on the uptake but if anyone else knows what this means could they enlighten me.

[WCBusinessCoach]

watch it WCBC ( kev ) according to a few on this forum, if you dont work full time, your a slacker who is a disgrace to the world of window cleaning

Then paint me a slacker baby!

Washing windows isn't a reason to wake up every morning, for sure, but it can facilitate doing the things and helping the people we love.

[WCBusinessCoach]

Great, welcome to Blighty and I look forward to the day when you approach my customers with you pricing struture, one of them I charge £175 every 6 weeks, I can't wait to see their faces when you quote them £875 or another one who is charged £55 every 2 weeks, I bet they can't wait to start paying £275, or the lowest on my list who pay £10 every 4 weeks, what joy they will have paying £50.

All of these customers have been targeted in the past and they will be targeted also in the future, but they choose to stay with me, why, well I would like to think that its all about the service I give them and it cannot bettered or it could be they like me, bacause I like every single one of them, or as the one who pays £175 and was approched by someone at half the price "its better to stay with the devil you know rather than one you don't" andthey already know I ofer a ultra 1st service and they get presents every christmas as well my other customers.

What if I charged the SAME as you, or a tad more than you, and had awesome marketing materials ans systems in motion? Would you be nervous then?

And what if I did a lot more than simply give them a little gift at the end of the year?

Its not only about way high prices, its about stealing work that you want, and carving out and dominating niches.

[WCBusinessCoach]

Kevin what would in your estimation be the average hourly income for a window cleaner in Canada?

Matt

The typical suvvessful owner/operators earn $55/hr to $100/hr and up.