[WCBusinessCoach]

Just for those here is the flyer that Kevin D worked on;

The first is my original flyer the second Kevin D's

seriously now, the first 1 is to the point, and they know what they are getting

the 2nd, well i am honestly unsure about it, my take is it doesnt scream WINDOW CLEANER, will it just get put in the bin with the other 7 flyers for pizza, chinese and the local nail bar  ? ? ? ? ?, the words are too small, too much for the customer to read ( do they want a essay ? ? ?  )

i was allways under the impression that " short and snappy " works best

i know which i would use as i feel it would produce better results

just my opinion

Try it, Matt.

The point here is that I'm helping you guys look at this stuff from a proven, different angle.

And you're right that it comes down to results.

And of course you don't think you're wrong up until now, that's why this thread has had 1600 views in the last 4 days.



What we think doesn't matter. All that matters is results.

[WCBusinessCoach]

Ah, but there is a bit of subtle strategy in having simple non glossy leaflets. Its the "I am just a straightforward tradesman, poor but honest" approach and it does work. Also, I always include my full name, address and home number.
It has worked

Have you ever tried something different from that?

If you're marketing from a pity point of view, as "just the simple, make this flier at home window cleaner", that could be powerful, but you should really tap into that more, and create a little story, and build your brand around it.

How well has your way worked? Whats your response rate? And what are your prices like, in comparison to the other local guys?

[peter holley]

my wife said she would go for the first one :

[WCBusinessCoach]

Seems to be a pattern emerging there, first it has to be eye-catching (semi naked bodies) then it has to show value, which it does but without telling you what it is, then lure you in with some slightly smutty innuendos followed by the chance of a freebie at the end. Would it work? maybe but not with the pensioners around here  
Do i like it? - No
But that could be an age thing, maybe it would appeal to younger people but they aren't the best market in my area given the credit crunch.
And it leaves very little room to sellotape money to it.
Good effort.

Good point.

I had ZERO demographic information to work with, so I had to create it blindly.

In that case, simply switch the photo for a dignified one of some seniors...I'll see if I can do that for you, for full effect.

Also, you could make the copy more senior specific, and the offer likewise.

AND...this flier is NOT designed to be used with money. It has nothing to do with the money flier approach described earlier.

This is a money FREE flier!

[WCBusinessCoach]

But, saying that would it work better than the first one? I dont know. It would be interesting to see, I look forward to Matts experiment.

Exactly. Try and compare.

Does it make any difference at the end of the day though if you gain a custy by some straight-forward hard-talking-what-i-have-to-offer flyer or by some glitzy-sneak-in-round-the-back-caught-you-unawares-smulchy-imagery? I dont think so.

Nope, it doesn't matter HOW you get the customer, all that matters is that you got them, at a decent price for you.

Also, if you gain a custy with the second flyer does that mean you WOULDNT have if you'd posted the first one through their door?

Thats the point of the head-to-head comparison.

[WCBusinessCoach]

I get the idea & It's a good, nice transformation. But personaly i think the second one is too OTT for the residential w/c market & risks alienating a wide variety of customers as it screams "expense"! It may be ok for a specific target i.e. upmarket, exclusive area of property. Something between the two I would be happier with.

Tony

That's why your pricing needs to be on it, which it is.

If you look expensive and superior to your competition in multiple ways, and your prices are just a tiny bit higher, or even the same, people will often make the leap and try you out.

Good question.

[WCBusinessCoach]

Quote from, WC Business Coach

“Is my self-esteem dented by a collection of WC peers from across the pond?”


The answer is no Kevin, because the ones who are insulting don’t even qualify as professional window cleaners, and they are not recognised by any professional bodies over here, are not up to date and have more in common with cowboys.


Good to see that you are already dealing with some professional window cleaners over here. These people will give you a more accurate image of the UK window cleaner.

Is this twot for real?

Hes had a mop and squeegee in his hand for a shorter period of time than my niece has been on this planet (and she's still in nappies) and now thinks he's Richard Bleedin' Branson.

Ewan f*** off

Nice to meet you too.

Been at the window cleaning game for 9 yrs now. You?

And, no, I don't think I'm Branson, I don't even have a beard, and I don't own a spaceship.

[windowswashed]

Kevin D's flyer looking at it from the customers viewpoint is kind of interesting about the privacy in the bedroom but one thing he doesn't take into account is that most working couples join the rush hour queue to get to work & home again which leaves them with Saturdays & Sundays for extra marital fun in the mornings. They really don't want to see or hear a window cleaner washing around their windows when they are half asleep or half awake. Same as many customers don't like you around during seasonal holidays if they are really honest but too polite to say so to you in person.

[ftp]

Well that was a very interesting debate untill that berk Ewan popped up again.

That's what it was, a debate and a very good one, i didn't see anyone insulting Kevin the coach, merely tumbling ideas around and looking from all sides of a different approach to marketing.
Ewan, if you can't understand simple conversation i suggest you find a forum for people like you somewhere else.

[matt]

Quote from, WC Business Coach

“Is my self-esteem dented by a collection of WC peers from across the pond?”


The answer is no Kevin, because the ones who are insulting don’t even qualify as professional window cleaners, and they are not recognised by any professional bodies over here, are not up to date and have more in common with cowboys.


Good to see that you are already dealing with some professional window cleaners over here. These people will give you a more accurate image of the UK window cleaner.

Is this twot for real?

Hes had a mop and squeegee in his hand for a shorter period of time than my niece has been on this planet (and she's still in nappies) and now thinks he's Richard Bleedin' Branson.

Ewan f*** off

Nice to meet you too.

Been at the window cleaning game for 9 yrs now. You?

And, no, I don't think I'm Branson, I don't even have a beard, and I don't own a spaceship.

he was talking to Ewan, who has been a window cleaner for a tomato season and seems to think he is the best in the world, ignore the fact that he still hasnt enough work, is still aiming to achieve what mos of us have ( them same people he puts down ) but then again, this post isnt about him, shame he needed to include 1 of his rather silly put down other posts

[matt]

Well that was a very interesting debate untill that berk Ewan popped up again.

That's what it was, a debate and a very good one, i didn't see anyone insulting Kevin the coach, merely tumbling ideas around and looking from all sides of a different approach to marketing.
Ewan, if you can't understand simple conversation i suggest you find a forum for people like you somewhere else.

spot on, i dont see why he needs to have his digs at members of CIU

oh hand on we have dsicussed that havent we, its to seek attention  :

[Oakley Windows]

It is to seek attention Matt, seems almost in a childlike way (the ANY attention is GOOD attention syndrome)

Hang-on Matt, what happened to the New Years Resolution?

 

[matt]

It is to seek attention Matt, seems almost in a childlike way (the ANY attention is GOOD attention syndrome)

Hang-on Matt, what happened to the New Years Resolution?

 

indeed

as for the NY Res, i havent responded to him, i just pointed out to WCBC that J demarco wasnt speaking to him, also agreeing with ftp, so its still intact ( well allmost )

[matt]

Just for those here is the flyer that Kevin D worked on;

The first is my original flyer the second Kevin D's

seriously now, the first 1 is to the point, and they know what they are getting

the 2nd, well i am honestly unsure about it, my take is it doesnt scream WINDOW CLEANER, will it just get put in the bin with the other 7 flyers for pizza, chinese and the local nail bar  ? ? ? ? ?, the words are too small, too much for the customer to read ( do they want a essay ? ? ?  )

i was allways under the impression that " short and snappy " works best

i know which i would use as i feel it would produce better results

just my opinion

Try it, Matt.

The point here is that I'm helping you guys look at this stuff from a proven, different angle.

And you're right that it comes down to results.

And of course you don't think you're wrong up until now, that's why this thread has had 1600 views in the last 4 days.



What we think doesn't matter. All that matters is results.

i will, and i will post the results on here for every1 to see

[williamx]

Business Coach

You asked in a provious reply what major contract that I have ever got, well when I was 22 I started up a carpet cleaning business, within 6 months I had the following on contract Edgbaston Cricket Ground, Newman Collage, Birmingham University, The Inland Revenue Service as well as various Resturants, Clubs and other assorted businesses, I then approach an Insurance Company and after a few intense meetings with their directors I got their Flood and Fire Damage contract, this was worth in excess of £250000 per year.

The marketing approach I used was quite simple, I just went into their head office and asked to see their managing director responable for this work, no flashy letter or gimmick just a straight forward approach.

I have seen the sample leaflet you have done, yes it does look very nice and professional, but it does not shout out from it, that you are a Window Cleaner, which is what needs to be expressed.

Because you are Canadian you will be unaware of the domestic window cleaning market we have over here, at the moment and always in the past there has always been a shortage of good window cleaners, many of my customers have been trying for years to get a cleaner but they couldn't until they came across me.

Because of this, marketing the domestic market does not need the flash bang and bling that other businesses need to use, a simple direct approach is all that is required.

The commercial sector is different, here everyone is scrapping for the same contracts, and different marketing ideas must be used, there is no simple one-fix-it-all method which can be used.

You may ask what do I know of this?, what credentials have I got?, well in the last 4 years I now have a turnover of what a company director earns working 50 hours a week.

Yet I only clean windows 3 hours a day, 4 days a week, and according to my George Programme I have dropped over £30000 per year worth of business.

[WCE]

Just for those here is the flyer that Kevin D worked on;

The first is my original flyer the second Kevin D's

seriously now, the first 1 is to the point, and they know what they are getting

the 2nd, well i am honestly unsure about it, my take is it doesnt scream WINDOW CLEANER, will it just get put in the bin with the other 7 flyers for pizza, chinese and the local nail bar  ? ? ? ? ?, the words are too small, too much for the customer to read ( do they want a essay ? ? ?  )

i was allways under the impression that " short and snappy " works best

i know which i would use as i feel it would produce better results

just my opinion

Try it, Matt.

The point here is that I'm helping you guys look at this stuff from a proven, different angle.

And you're right that it comes down to results.

And of course you don't think you're wrong up until now, that's why this thread has had 1600 views in the last 4 days.



What we think doesn't matter. All that matters is results.

Sorry But I think the second leaflet is nothing special it's ok but not spectacular.
 
1. Whats the picture at the top about? It has nothing to do with window cleaning and it doesn't really tie in with the theme of the leaflet I know it meant to portray one of those "private" moments but it just looks like it should belong in a holiday or hotel brochure.
2. "You'll also breathe easy" For the UK this is a poor use of English as it's not really a term we use.
3. Too much writing: I have got this right? This is a leaflet that is going through doors? If it is then it will more than likely be discarded after a quick glance. IMO you have to catch the potential customers attention instantly for them to take the time to read the whole thing. One of the most successful leaflets I have seen used was one that  just had " S****** S****Window Cleaning" with the phone number underneath. That one always generated enquiries for the guy using it. When The guy first showed it me I thought he was mad putting out something so simple but it worked for leaflet drops and newspaper inserts. For direct canvassing he would have a customer charter he would give them as part of the pitch and that was it. This guy was able to put on 3500 customers (mostly monthly) in 2 years by using these leaflets.
4. The guarantee: This seems to be more detailed in the second leaflet whist still managing to be vague and opens a can of worms ie 4 times longer than what? I mean how long does a window stay clean trad? I don't know the definitive answer and I doubt there is one. There are to many variables between properties for there to be so I wonder what your policy is regarding this, What length of time do you expect the window to remain clean with regard to the guarantee?
The other problem is that you have put the idea of the windows remaining clean for 4 times longer than trad into the mind of the customer. You might have ideas as I was saying above of how long the window should stay clean but the customer might think differently. The other problem with the 4 times longer statement comes when you are selling the service to the customer, This as with point 2 is a UK specific problem. Over here as opposed to the US, Most window cleaners work on a set round of repeat business. The problem is that with the guarantee you have really implied to that the customer need you less. If most of your customers were monthly then the guarantee suggests that you are only required quarterly if you see what I mean. Another example is where for whatever reason a potential customer who for what ever reason has lost their window cleaner (who was trad) reads your leaflet. She was having her windows done Bi-monthly and would of come to you on the same basis but after seeing the guarantee she's decided that she only wants you once every 8 months.
        
 This isn't a dig at you just my observations
 


      

[zeusweiler]

I think i will only post on this thread once as i've been here done that in relation to this topic with kevin on another forum. I was etremely unsure about kevin and his book initially however after a monster discussion on window tools believe that he is very good at what he does and time has proven that. just the fact that this guy has got this many replies and people discussing his product on all the right places should alert the majority that this guy could seriously help your business. I've studied marketing at a basic level at college in the past and challenged kevin's thoughts in depth and liked what i heard. this guy really conducts himself well and very proffesionally. and if you think its not for you then dont bother with it it's that simple. but the carrot is already dangling and people are talking about it even if they are not going to purchase the book publicity is power.

good to see you are still working away with it kevin keep up the good work.

The answer is no Kevin, because the ones who are insulting don’t even qualify as professional window cleaners, and they are not recognised by any professional bodies over here, are not up to date and have more in common with cowboys.


Good to see that you are already dealing with some professional window cleaners over here. These people will give you a more accurate image of the UK window cleaner.

Ewan i seem to recall you not agreeing with the importance of health and safety as an operator with me some time ago on  another thread. it's great to see that you are a proffesional as stated and will take health and safety serious and remain up to date with the practices.

[mark dew]

Marketing in the domestic side of window cleaning here in the uk is pretty easy. We don't need to do that much to attract new domestic customers because it's considered normal to have one.

Eating is considered normal, too, but new restaurants are always opening up to try and lure you away from your old choices...

Don't shortchange yourself, you're giving up.

If you are truly in a market where anything you do means you succeed, because everyone wants a window cleaner, anyway, and you have ZERO competition, then I wish I was in business where you live!

You will earn a zillion pounds in the next year if you wanted to.

However, if you have ANY competition, or stiff competition, then you pay a high cost for marketing complacency.

Whoa. I'm not that successful. 
The point i'm trying to make is that with the domestic market we are trying to convert the converted. Most people might want a window cleaner but i need them to want me as their window cleaner. This is where i can learn from threads like this.
I'm not giving up. I have been working in a comfort zone for the last 3 years, but not giving up.
I have used this leaflet since i started. I write which day i will be back. (Normally the next day, so it's still fresh in everyones mind.)
I use this to try and fill gaps in my round. I have had quite good returns with this in the countryside. But I leafletted an area of my home town 3 months ago with this and got nothing.

[ftp]

If you don't find it interesting then why even comment? Your posts are always the same, you just try to insult everyone on the Clean It Up forum with the same "none of you are professional" comments, why? What's wrong with you man?
The one with the oversized ego seems to be you.
The one that doesn't understand anything (particularly politeness) is you.
Your only aim seems to be to fish for trouble and disrupt as many posts as possible - are you ill?
What's your definition of a professional, what makes you so superior to everyone else on here?
The only time you backpeddle is when you suddenly realise you are talking to someone very successful. Professionlism and success aren't necessarily the same thing.

[WCBusinessCoach]

Kevin D's flyer looking at it from the customers viewpoint is kind of interesting about the privacy in the bedroom but one thing he doesn't take into account is that most working couples join the rush hour queue to get to work & home again which leaves them with Saturdays & Sundays for extra marital fun in the mornings. They really don't want to see or hear a window cleaner washing around their windows when they are half asleep or half awake. Same as many customers don't like you around during seasonal holidays if they are really honest but too polite to say so to you in person.

Its true, all I had was the existing flier design, and Kevin R's website, from  which I pulled his "privacy" angle.

That's why you need to know your people, and what they want/need/love before making a flier. The example was simply a quick implementation, based on only the obvious stuff at my fingertips.

Give me an angle that would work in your area, and we can create something completely different, using the same marketing principles.