[WCBusinessCoach]

If any one does want marketing help.

May I recomend http://www.create-presence.com/

If you ask for Fran Connop, I am sure she will be helpful, if you mention William from Pure HYDRO Cleaners a member of the Edgbaston Bob Club recomended her I would be grateful.

I will contact her in the morning to let her know thats she will be getting loads of calls, as I won't see her until next Tuesday at the next Business Networking Event I go too.
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AS promised I have just spoken to "Fran" and she is waiting for your calls, its not going to cost you a penny to see if she can be of help to you and your business, but you will make ££££ from her advice..

and before you start to think that a "professional" is going to cost you loads, well she has given me some prices and well "it cheap as chips" .

I off now to clean a few golf clubs while I still have them

This makes me smile

[WCBusinessCoach]

Not at all Bear, I fully get I was just saying what my observations of the leaflet were simple as that. At no point have I commented on the principles behind it so I don't really get what point you are trying to make! I just believe that the leaflet would be more effective in the US than here. If you look at my last post you will see that is what I said and also agreed with Mr coach that only time will tell and if I am proved wrong then great! I will happily admit I am wrong and learn from it.
The only other thing I commented on was the wording of the guarantee. Again at no point have I mentioned the principles behind it so what point am I meant to of missed?   

Oh, sorry, about the guarantee: What do you need to know?

Make the guarantee airtight, and promise that they will love both your workmanship and their entire service experience with your company, or else they won't pay.

Stand behind your work and company 100%, and people will more readily trust you with their business and their money.

[Peter Mallory-Smit]

I think you miss the point, dont copy it but apply the principles.

Alright stu ! 

  

You aint kicking that dog again are you? 

Guilty as charged!

[ftp]

Is Cat a Bear  confused 

[williamx]

If any one does want marketing help.

May I recomend http://www.create-presence.com/

If you ask for Fran Connop, I am sure she will be helpful, if you mention William from Pure HYDRO Cleaners a member of the Edgbaston Bob Club recomended her I would be grateful.

I will contact her in the morning to let her know thats she will be getting loads of calls, as I won't see her until next Tuesday at the next Business Networking Event I go too.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

AS promised I have just spoken to "Fran" and she is waiting for your calls, its not going to cost you a penny to see if she can be of help to you and your business, but you will make ££££ from her advice..

and before you start to think that a "professional" is going to cost you loads, well she has given me some prices and well "it cheap as chips" .

[mikethechamois]

i have read this thread with interest as im trying to work out if this book is worth buying at that money.i posed this question on another forum and gleaned that the book was offered at $us 50 ,at the time the exchange rate was about 2 to 1 so the book was reasonably priced. apparently i can now have it free if i subscribe at $us 40.  kevin is clearly brilliant at marketing himself and is no doubt on top of the canadian wc market...............but does he understand the great british public and their expectations.

uk wc's understand pricing, 10 customers in one road @ £10 is worth £100, 6@ £12 is worth £ 72 then you need to drive to the next road.  how many would you do @ £40 and how long would you spend on the road between jobs

and as for clever marketing techniques, the customer wants clean windows all year round, no watermarks or dirty frames/cills and they will stick with that wc wether he smiles or not.

if kevin stopped promoting himself long enough to listen he might learn from us.

reduce the price of this book by a third and let it sell itself without this intensive marketing and promotion, there comes a point where the volume of sales means more profit from a tighter margin. there is no limit to the number books you can produce. whereas there is a limit to a wc's time , dont confuse these very different kinds of supply.

when i started in business some 30 yrs ago i was told by an old hand that you can shear a sheep as often as you like but you will only fleece it once. sound advice that is as valid today as it was then.

rather than trying to get  us to market more aggressively (at the end of the day he doesnt give a monkeys chuff about our business' , he just wants t sell his book) he should consider introducing monthly maintenance cleans to canada he could clean up,

im still not convinced about this book,if it was cheaper i would need less convincing to take a punt

[williamx]

Mike

You will find everything the "coach" is saying, in hundreds of marketing books by hundreds of authors, some even well known (Alan Sugar and a couple of Dragon Den members for instance) and most are less aggressive in their methods of marketing ideas.

The price for these can vary, but most are cheaper than the canadian version, also your local libuary will have a good selection, which won;t cost you a penny to read.

[windowswashed]

Totally agree with books.

Here's a good one.... 'he who dares sells', (a salesmans handbook) examining every sales tool you'll need to understand what category your customer falls into, their needs, the way they think, conduct themselves and how to sell them what they convince themselves they need and best of all sales closure procedures.

PMA (Positive Mental Attitude) books are good for building self confidence as well.

[WCBusinessCoach]

apparently i can now have it free if i subscribe at $us 40. 

Actually, its free as a bonus, when you take the dossier for a 1 month FREE trial.

Free, not $us 40

For the record

[WCBusinessCoach]

does he understand the great british public and their expectations.

Pretty sure, yup. So far, a whole whack of brits have given me the nod on this book, and found that it's really helped them

Here's one of them:
http://robinson-solutions.blogspot.com/2009/01/window-cleaning-business-coach-book.html

uk wc's understand pricing, 10 customers in one road @ £10 is worth £100, 6@ £12 is worth £ 72 then you need to drive to the next road.  how many would you do @ £40 and how long would you spend on the road between jobs

I'm not sure why you guys are obsessing about quadruple pricing models. I am not insisting that you quadruple your pricing.

What if you simply tried to charge £20, and asked yourself" "I wonder what I would have to do, for this prospect to be happy giving me £20 per clean?"

And, by the way, if you did raise your prices to £20/clean, you'd only have to work half as much, for the same money you make now.

and as for clever marketing techniques, the customer wants clean windows all year round, no watermarks or dirty frames/cills and they will stick with that wc wether he smiles or not.

Okay, then I guess the world of marketing is all smoke and mirrors, with no value in the real world, and the british folk in your neighburhoods are not susceptible to its power

if kevin stopped promoting himself long enough to listen he might learn from us.

reduce the price of this book by a third and let it sell itself without this intensive marketing and promotion, there comes a point where the volume of sales means more profit from a tighter margin. there is no limit to the number books you can produce. whereas there is a limit to a wc's time , dont confuse these very different kinds of supply.

Why not sell it for £1? Why stop at £30? I'm sure some would find issue and complain with that price, too.

when i started in business some 30 yrs ago i was told by an old hand that you can shear a sheep as often as you like but you will only fleece it once. sound advice that is as valid today as it was then.

If you sincerely believe that a measly, TINY price like £68 is "fleecing" you, then I think you really should read this book, and start tapping into the power of marketing. If this book doesn't help you earn 100 times what it costs you - in 2009 even - then I'll give you your money back. I'm serious.

Stop complaining and start applying. I could charge you £500 for this book, and look you in the eye and tell you its going to pay for itself many times over in the next 12 months, but I'd rather let you read it for £68 (as of today's exchange rate, anyway!).

rather than trying to get us to market more aggressively (at the end of the day he doesnt give a monkeys chuff about our business' , he just wants to sell his book) he should consider introducing monthly maintenance cleans to canada he could clean up,

I suppose you don't give a monkeys chuff about your window cleaning clients, either, then, to use your reasoning.

(DISCLAIMER: I'm not sure exactly what a monkey's chuff is )

im still not convinced about this book,if it was cheaper i would need less convincing to take a punt

Please keep your £, this book isn't for you.

[WCBusinessCoach]

Mike

You will find everything the "coach" is saying, in hundreds of marketing books by hundreds of authors, some even well known (Alan Sugar and a couple of Dragon Den members for instance) and most are less aggressive in their methods of marketing ideas.

The price for these can vary, but most are cheaper than the canadian version, also your local libuary will have a good selection, which won;t cost you a penny to read.

(I'm smiling again)

[mark dew]

Bear hit the nail on the head when he said we're missing the point. The majority of us have got hung up on cultural differences and guarantees and do a good job and they'll see how good we are etc etc.
The coach is promoting his marketing knowledge and not how to do a good job, or how to run our window cleaning business day to day.
I think of marketing as about better understanding the market in which i operate and how make my services appear attractive or even necessary to a potential customer. With the window cleaning business isn't it about getting our feet in the door? Once we are in there is when doing a good job comes into it, i think.
I don't think i will be subscribing but i am grateful for the coach in contributing to this thread. One thing i notice is how well the coach has handled himself in the face of sceptic audience. I think that is another cultural difference. The majority of us would have got the hump with rephrasing the same message over and over, in the hope that someone understood this way of saying it.
I also pointed out differences, mainly out of curiosity. I was all ears earlier on in the thread, but i'm now convinced that what the coach has to say carries as much relevance over here as in north america.
Anglicise some words if need be but the goal is still the same.
Kevin (coach), you have debated well and have drawn some good info from some on here. I hope you continue contributing on here regardless of book sales or subscriptions gained, cos marketing is something that doesn't get debated to this degree on here often.
Even Discount has tried a couple of times to generate some marketing or business angle but even he eventually dies a death. There has been a bit of oomph in the ideas exchanged on here.

[WCBusinessCoach]

Bear hit the nail on the head when he said we're missing the point. The majority of us have got hung up on cultural differences and guarantees and do a good job and they'll see how good we are etc etc.
The coach is promoting his marketing knowledge and not how to do a good job, or how to run our window cleaning business day to day.

Exactly, marketing only. I own and run a window cleaning business, too, but I'm not attempting to help others master all the nuances involved in that...

I think of marketing as about better understanding the market in which i operate and how make my services appear attractive or even necessary to a potential customer.

That's a pretty good definition, Mark

I would define marketing this way (slightly different):

Anything we wittingly do in an effort to motivate a prospect to give us their hard-earned money, as much and as often as possible.

With the window cleaning business isn't it about getting our feet in the door? Once we are in there is when doing a good job comes into it, i think.

Exactly, again. Being awesome only counts once we have a chance to DO the work, but we'll never get that chance until we motivate them to try us out.

I don't think i will be subscribing but i am grateful for the coach in contributing to this thread. One thing i notice is how well the coach has handled himself in the face of sceptic audience. I think that is another cultural difference. The majority of us would have got the hump with rephrasing the same message over and over, in the hope that someone understood this way of saying it.
I also pointed out differences, mainly out of curiosity. I was all ears earlier on in the thread, but i'm now convinced that what the coach has to say carries as much relevance over here as in north america.

I appreciate that, thx. And you're right, it does. ANY free market economy, in fact.

Anglicise some words if need be but the goal is still the same.

Kevin (coach), you have debated well and have drawn some good info from some on here. I hope you continue contributing on here regardless of book sales or subscriptions gained, cos marketing is something that doesn't get debated to this degree on here often.

Thx Mark

Even Discount has tried a couple of times to generate some marketing or business angle but even he eventually dies a death. There has been a bit of oomph in the ideas exchanged on here.

[williamx]

Just for those here is the flyer that Kevin D worked on;

The first is my original flyer the second Kevin D's

I may not be a marketing genus, I rather leave that to the ones who live and breath it as a full time career, but I do know what works and what dosen't for me.

Everyone on this site has done some form of leaflet drop, with varying decrees of sucess, but overall the conversion rate has worked out out 5 jobs per 1000 leaflets delivered.

How is it best way to get my leaflet to work? is the "holy grail" question.

Lets look on how we read those leaflets that are pushed though are door on a daily basis, what do you do when one drops on you doormat? have a good think about this because its important on how you construct your leaflet.

Now lets look at what does happen, the brain takes a couple of seconds to scan the leaflet and if it does not find anything that it likes it reject it.

So for those seconds we need our leaflet to grab the brains attention to carry on reading, with the leaflets that have seen debated, lets look at them.

The 1st one is set out quite simply and you are drawn to the words "window cleaner" which is what you want, because this will carry your message to them and if they have thought about getting a window cleaner then they will read on.

Now do we need them to read everything that you do and don't do, how you do it, in fact everything is there except the price, after they have absorded all of this information there are no question left, they can ask you apart from the price.

The whole point of this leaflet drop is to generate telephone calls to your business, where you can sell "yourself" and your "business".

By answering these question that you have freely and wastefully given away on the leaflet you have taken away the opportunity for them to call you.

The second leaflet, well does it convay the message that you are a "window cleaner"?.

Those first few seconds where the brain is going to make its decision, you are drawn to the picture image of a couple who seem to like the warm of a duffet.  So is this leaflet trying to sell me bedding? or because they seem so cosy maybe "central heating" in fact it dosen't "scream" out that you are a window cleaner, until you come to the small print, but by them the 2 seconds have elasped and the brain has rejected the leaflet to the waste bin.

Try something simple like

Window Cleaner
CALL ME

The brain now has scanned everthing in those most important seconds, and it will make it decision on whether it wants more information on window cleaning, if it does then they have no choose but to call you.

Once they called you, then you sell yourelf and your business and the customer is yours. 

[mikethechamois]

i'm 100% with you on that one Hydro

i've learnt through hard experiance what works and what doesnt,you dont even get 2 seconds to catch their eye before the flyer is screwed up and binned. they see the words window cleaner..............think " i need my windows doing" and keep the leaflet, thats when your selling can start. competition is going to get tighter, prices will come down. only the better ones will survive . we all know this

kevin has told me to keep my money as his book is not for me, i think hes right, hes made an error on the style of leaflet that will work in the uk market, how sound is the rest of his advice. £67 is alot of money for a book , you can get excellant marketing books for  half that.  the usp on this one is that it is written by a wc for wcs  now he tells me its a marketing book not a book about promoting and building a successful wc business.

his replies to the posts on here have revealed his lack of understanding of the uk market, the worst part is he wont listen and learn from those that have the experiance.

keep doling out the advice Hydro , i have yet to disagre with anything you have said on this forum, hopefully those new to the trade will learn and grow their business' into successfull and proffessional outfits.

[AuRavelling79]

I thought that that was two different sides to the same leaflet!

I think they are both very good and the second one was imaginative too.

The bottom one caught my eye and as a wfp over trad leaflet it looks good.

In fact because I wasn't immediately sure what it was about is what made me look further. Or maybe the good-looking couple in bed and the "leave your curtains open" subconsciously reached a part of me that I wouldn't normally admit to?

If I had a trad w/c that leaflet would appeal to me. I might even have one picture of with the inside view of a brush cleaning a window from below with a wallet on it's inside sill to imply that what can be seen from the top of a ladder might become a temptation.

The second one "made me smile" which is good for marketing isn't it?

You see the leaflet, you take it in, you smile and you think better of what is being offered ... well that's what Olivetti told me when I sold their typewriters with the Mr. Men campaign.

[williamx]

Simple marketing can have dramatic results.

Look at McDonalds in their recent advertising campaign, they just used the letter "M" which was in a yellow font.

This was brilliant, no confusion over what the message is trying to express, a simple "M" say have "a burger".

Job done

If there are simply ways to get across what you want to say, why look for a harder method of doing it.

[WCBusinessCoach]

I may not be a marketing genus, I rather leave that to the ones who live and breath it as a full time career, but I do know what works and what dosen't for me.

Remember, it doesn't matter what you think, or what works for you. Try it, test it, and rule it out before you go on a rant again.

Everyone on this site has done some form of leaflet drop, with varying decrees of sucess, but overall the conversion rate has worked out out 5 jobs per 1000 leaflets delivered.

Wow. So your proven marketing skills are giving you a 0.5% conversion rate? And you are dismissing a fresh, leveraged marketing tool?

How is it best way to get my leaflet to work? is the "holy grail" question.

Lets look on how we read those leaflets that are pushed though are door on a daily basis, what do you do when one drops on you doormat? have a good think about this because its important on how you construct your leaflet.

Now lets look at what does happen, the brain takes a couple of seconds to scan the leaflet and if it does not find anything that it likes it reject it.

So for those seconds we need our leaflet to grab the brains attention to carry on reading, with the leaflets that have seen debated, lets look at them.

The 1st one is set out quite simply and you are drawn to the words "window cleaner" which is what you want, because this will carry your message to them and if they have thought about getting a window cleaner then they will read on.

Now do we need them to read everything that you do and don't do, how you do it, in fact everything is there except the price, after they have absorded all of this information there are no question left, they can ask you apart from the price.

The whole point of this leaflet drop is to generate telephone calls to your business, where you can sell "yourself" and your "business".

By answering these question that you have freely and wastefully given away on the leaflet you have taken away the opportunity for them to call you.

The second leaflet, well does it convay the message that you are a "window cleaner"?.

Those first few seconds where the brain is going to make its decision, you are drawn to the picture image of a couple who seem to like the warm of a duffet.  So is this leaflet trying to sell me bedding? or because they seem so cosy maybe "central heating" in fact it dosen't "scream" out that you are a window cleaner, until you come to the small print, but by them the 2 seconds have elasped and the brain has rejected the leaflet to the waste bin.

Try something simple like

Window Cleaner
CALL ME

The brain now has scanned everthing in those most important seconds, and it will make it decision on whether it wants more information on window cleaning, if it does then they have no choose but to call you.

Once they called you, then you sell yourelf and your business and the customer is yours. 

Oh boy...

I think you've posted this same message 10 times in a row, and I've dismantled it and shown you where you're making major mistakes in your reasoning 10 times in a row.

I guess you're hoping I'll miss one, and I probably will. I'm starting to tune it out, so your odds are improving!



P.S. For those just tuning in, you may want to start at the beginning of this thread.

[WCBusinessCoach]

i'm 100% with you on that one Hydro

i've learnt through hard experiance what works and what doesnt,you dont even get 2 seconds to catch their eye before the flyer is screwed up and binned. they see the words window cleaner..............think " i need my windows doing" and keep the leaflet, thats when your selling can start. competition is going to get tighter, prices will come down. only the better ones will survive . we all know this

What has your experience been, trying something along these lines? Can you give us an example to chew on, or to support your statement that you 'know what doesn't work through hard experience'?

kevin has told me to keep my money as his book is not for me, i think hes right, hes made an error on the style of leaflet that will work in the uk market, how sound is the rest of his advice.

Here we go, again. Why not get out there and try something proven that tens of thousands of marketing books are trying (in vain) to teach you to implement, my own included.

 £67 is alot of money for a book , you can get excellant marketing books for  half that.  the usp on this one is that it is written by a wc for wcs  now he tells me its a marketing book not a book about promoting and building a successful wc business.

I think you might have just contradicted yourself, but I don't really understand what you're saying here.

his replies to the posts on here have revealed his lack of understanding of the uk market, the worst part is he wont listen and learn from those that have the experiance.

Like you, right? And our peer Hydro? Listen, you guys:

You would rather keep at your 0.5% response rate, I get it, and you hate the fact that I'm openly saying that you're incorrect, so I'm sorry if you feel hurt. Try not to take it personally.

This is about your business, not you. You're wrong about your marketing strategy, and the value of your existing window cleaning marketing tools.

However, that doesn't make you dumb or unintelligent, you just don't know any better.

In fact, you could both easily be smarter than me, I don't know. You may not be, but you may be.

Unfortunately, smart doesn't cut it when it comes to marketing your business, education, training, and implementation does.

Start considering the idea that you could benefit from a little marketing education, and your business will make more quid on 2009.

Or keep throwing rocks at the cars driving by. It's up to you.

keep doling out the advice Hydro , i have yet to disagre with anything you have said on this forum, hopefully those new to the trade will learn and grow their business' into successfull and proffessional outfits.

[WCBusinessCoach]

I thought that that was two different sides to the same leaflet!

I think they are both very good and the second one was imaginative too.

The bottom one caught my eye and as a wfp over trad leaflet it looks good.

In fact because I wasn't immediately sure what it was about is what made me look further. Or maybe the good-looking couple in bed and the "leave your curtains open" subconsciously reached a part of me that I wouldn't normally admit to?

If I had a trad w/c that leaflet would appeal to me. I might even have one picture of with the inside view of a brush cleaning a window from below with a wallet on it's inside sill to imply that what can be seen from the top of a ladder might become a temptation.

The second one "made me smile" which is good for marketing isn't it?

You see the leaflet, you take it in, you smile and you think better of what is being offered ... well that's what Olivetti told me when I sold their typewriters with the Mr. Men campaign.

Thx for your honesty, Malc.

Did you know that marketing studies have revealed that curiosity is the most powerful psychological trigger? It didn't just kill the cat, it also prompts us to keep reading...

And the smile thing is HUGE, good call.

k

P.S. Sweet concept with the wallet thing. If this is a legitimate concern of people in your area, that trad WC'ers up on ladders may see things that will tempt them to break in, I think you should develop a powerful marketing piece around it, and test it out.