[ftp]

Only one reason for me - to come into the 'trade' and not require ladders. The only reason. Strangely though I find myself using them quite often these days and have overcome my initial dislike/fear of them.

[simon knight]

I didnt spend thousands on mine, just 2500 and i bought it for ease of use and speed although it takes time to get up to speed though in line with doing the job right.  I can also get cheaper PL insurance something im sure ladder men have trouble getting or in some cases dont have it at all!!

Don't talk daft. I'm trad only and have £2.5m PL and it costs me the princely sum of £8 a month with Axa.

[bad trippy]

I didnt spend thousands on mine, just 2500 and i bought it for ease of use and speed although it takes time to get up to speed though in line with doing the job right.  I can also get cheaper PL insurance something im sure ladder men have trouble getting or in some cases dont have it at all!!

Don't talk daft. I'm trad only and have £2.5m PL and it costs me the princely sum of £8 a month with Axa.

Simon out of interest does that cover you for damage to the custys property as well as third parties? Im looking at pl at the mo
cheers in advance

[simon knight]

I didnt spend thousands on mine, just 2500 and i bought it for ease of use and speed although it takes time to get up to speed though in line with doing the job right.  I can also get cheaper PL insurance something im sure ladder men have trouble getting or in some cases dont have it at all!!

Don't talk daft. I'm trad only and have £2.5m PL and it costs me the princely sum of £8 a month with Axa.

Simon out of interest does that cover you for damage to the custys property as well as third parties? Im looking at pl at the mo
cheers in advance

pl  ONLY covers you for 3rd party damage to customers property/people on it.

Don't confuse pl with personal injury insurance.

eg: You break a customers window...you're covered (subject to the excess)
       You fall and break your leg...you're not covered.

[wfp master]

no trust trad 99% wfp 70% only seen it working 3 or 4 times was not impressed with the results  & what ive read on here its not 100% . dont tell me its the user not the system more problems with wfp than trad        trad is the daddy!!!!!!! you all know it is unless you have never been trad.

[dd]

wfp does often leave residues of bird, fly and bee poo. You won't see this until window dries. With bird poo I always give an extra scrub even when it looks to have shifted. Often can't see with bee and fly spots though on upstairs windows.

Only way to be more confident is to go hot wfp. Disadvantage is initial outlay and runnuing costs 1k plus a year.

[Mike #1]

dai i think you will find un-flocked has far better scrubbing power the flocked is very soft bristled in comparison

[pingu]

Do we think that there is a real case for hot wfp vice cold...I have asked on here a couple of times what the real day to day benefits of hot are...could the benefits be a better clean?

I would dearly love to hear from those who have been cold and now in the warm..

Cheers
Dave.

[Mike #1]

trad is better because you can inspect every window before you leave it but i have only had a few complaints in 18 months of wfp only had 5 complaints in 10yrs of trad but now i have perfected my wfp technique

[prestigeclean]

splash and dash for me everytime , we do about 500 houses a month and get on average 3 complaints , we also get a lot of our custies through recommendation , even first cleans only get done once i used to go over them twice but don,t have the time now , i make a point of being cheery to the custies , maybe thats why i only get 3 complaints lol

[leapstallbuildings]

i also forgot to say most of my work is monthly and in the leafy suburbs and sometimes there filthy with all the crap off the trees,pollen,birdmuck,insect poo.i just dont know how u can keep scrubbing with a wet brush and be quicker than TRAD.DO U HAVE TO GET THE LADDERS OUT IF THE STUBBORN STUFF DOESNT COME OFF?

I have a trad pole and put a scraper on the end on the rare occasions this happens.

[leapstallbuildings]

WFP was invented for ease and speed for the window cleaner simple as that. Granted it is safer than ladders but i sometimes wonder if the window cleaner buys the kit soley for the safety aspect or for other benefits?
If WFP was say 30% slower than trad i wonder just how many w/c would be using it ?
All my life ive been trad and damn good at it too but last few months ive been converting over to WFP
Why? Because its a piece of cake thats why, im not scared of ladders and i always use ladders in a safe way.
Do i think the results of WFP are any better? Nope
Using WFP can i walk away confident of the quality of the work? Nope
Using trad can i walk away confident of the quality of work? Yes
Using trad do i fear complaints? Nope
Using Wfp do i fear complaints? Bag of nerves
Do you sometimes cringe when customers sees and hears all the water crashing down to their pathes?

Do you get fed up with all the costs of WFP?
Worried about freezing weather when WFP?

Now ask yourself the real reason you spent thousands on WFP

To earn more money and to be able to tender for work that I couldn't do from a ladder.  Extra safety is a highly desirable side effect though.  Unfortunately, I had to blag it a bit about safety regs  at first with a few custies until they started to see that the results were fine.

[ftp]

I did my own windows again yesterday using the same method as all my customers. I have to say the results are rubbish as usual. If there was a more reliable safer method I would happily sling the lot on the nearest tip!
I've just been cussing and swearing but the wife can't understand why I get so angry and points out that my customers never complain. Going to go back to the non flocked brush again and try that.

[Craig 72]

The worst thing I'm finding with wfp is that I'm still leaving white spots in the top corners of windows.Some windows are fine but others it's very noticable,no matter how much scrubbing or rinsing.I tend to do wfp for upstairs of houses and trad fro downstairs so I can at least be assured the downtairs is 100% when I leave.Having said that,I've not had one complaint about the windows I've done wfp in 6 months.

[CBCS]

spiders are pretty fast at making webs

It takes about one hour for a spider to construct an elaborate web of silk thread, called an orb web. An orb web consists of a series of roughly circular, concentric outlines, with spokes extending from a hub. Orb webs, which are most noticeable in the morning dew, are constructed by many species of spiders.

[ronnie paton]

simon most public liability dont cover for the property your working on, you have to pay extra forit an out of intrest wo you insured with? i would be intrested to know and up to what height that cvers you

[pingu]

Ftp seems to be on the 'spot' so to speak..I really do not trust wfp and speed...I clean my own house at the same speed I clean customers houses and generally I am not satisfied at the results.

So much infact that I am considering 'hot' but need to be convinced that is merely a good tool for warm hands and really dirty commerical 6monthly work.

But in general I think that wfp produces a 'acceptable' end result...and as such I am starting to re-think my whole approach to this window cleaning lark.

On the other side I have seen loads of really shoddy windo cleaning using the trad method.

It could just be that I am totally pants at using wfp...

But like FTP my says my misses also says to me "stop complaining, we do not get very many complaints" and it's true...my 'you're house has been cleaned today' card has the message "if your not satisfied...call us" written on it...so they have loads of information to phone in a complaint.

How do you feel...lets not make this a wfp v trad war.

Cheers
Dave.

[Gleaming windows]

I did my own windows again yesterday using the same method as all my customers. I have to say the results are rubbish as usual. If there was a more reliable safer method I would happily sling the lot on the nearest tip!
I've just been cussing and swearing but the wife can't understand why I get so angry and points out that my customers never complain. Going to go back to the non flocked brush again and try that.

I started to get issues (a couple of complaints, and cancellations) when I used a flocked brush, Ive stopped using it too.

[simon knight]

simon most public liability dont cover for the property your working on, you have to pay extra forit an out of intrest wo you insured with? i would be intrested to know and up to what height that cvers you

Ronnie, I've no idea up to what height I'm covered. All I said was that I'm a window cleaner and need 3rd party cover in case I do damage to a customers property.

Axa never asked whether I'm trad or wfp. I've a £250 excess so short of destroying an entire conservatory Axa are pretty safe :

Frankly with my excess I think it's £8 a month wasted...but it gives customers a feeling of security and it's always nice to be able to tell them "I'm insured for up to £2.5m"

Again: Please don't confuse pl with personal accident cover as PA is a whole new ball game and can be very expensive.

[G Griffin]

For problem windows wfp, could it possible to add certain detergents to a barrell of pure water, scrub and then rinse with just pure water? 
  Or t-bar on a pole, clean windows and the rinse with wfp.

  Apart from being time consuming, are there any reasons for these methods not being practical?

   I may sound really thick, so go easy on me   

                         Gerry.