[EZclean]

I think sometimes folk forget that 30 seconds per window, isn't always enough

30 seconds!  I reckon for a regular clean, a standard window should take no longer than 15 seconds as long as it's not been soiled by something other than the weather and time.

i agree, 15secs is for a good clean too. (regular 4wk clean)

need a good flow of around 1.5- 2lpm, cant clean windows fast with 0.5lpm, they will be clean, just not quick enough.

[Londoner]

You have to take a balanced view with WFP. Money and time V a few problems.

McDonalds food isn't perfect but the are doing alright.

If you do every window to absolute perfection the chances are 95% of the time its overkill. Thats not to say you should be slapdash. Always do the best you can but if you do an identical job for two different customers one will be delighted and the other will find fault.

If you work to the highest standard possible you will only do half as many houses in a day and that woman at no 43 will still say its smeary.
.

[Gleaming windows]

You have to take a balanced view with WFP. Money and time V a few problems.

McDonalds food isn't perfect but the are doing alright.

If you do every window to absolute perfection the chances are 95% of the time its overkill. Thats not to say you should be slapdash. Always do the best you can but if you do an identical job for two different customers one will be delighted and the other will find fault.

If you work to the highest standard possible you will only do half as many houses in a day and that woman at no 43 will still say its smeary.
.

Very good post.


In addition to my previous post when I was contemplating moving over to WFP I was trying to get a similiar discussion going on CIU. Of course I was sceptical in the same way most are, its a totally new method of trying to ply your trade when you are used to ladders, being upfront with the glass and seeing your results.

I prided myself on doing a good job trad. Most do I think.

One person said one thing on here that swung the lead for me and enabled me to make the descision. He said 'Matt, you'll make mistakes with WFP but when you made mistakes trad you really do see it. When the sun shines on a trad mistake and that detergent smear is a foot wide where the blade has risen up over the seal, but the odd run or trail on a window with WFP isnt half as bad'.


It isnt always that dramatic a difference but mistakes are also made trad. Dont forget that.


I should know, I made one once.

[stephen s]

the thing is that as you say the blocks were on the seafront so besides all the bird muck you also have a lot of salt in the air add the windy conditions you get at seasides and those windows will take much longer to clean than in other area's.

A hot water system would would cut through all those obstructions much easier and if you use a double trim brush then try swapping over to a vikan as I find they clean the glass much better

[Sean Dyer]

You have to take a balanced view with WFP. Money and time V a few problems.

McDonalds food isn't perfect but the are doing alright.

If you do every window to absolute perfection the chances are 95% of the time its overkill. Thats not to say you should be slapdash. Always do the best you can but if you do an identical job for two different customers one will be delighted and the other will find fault.

If you work to the highest standard possible you will only do half as many houses in a day and that woman at no 43 will still say its smeary.
.

true that, i do front a of a largish 3 bed semi with diamond imprint on the top small windows, i clean them for ages as she monas every time, no matter how long i spend messing something is wrong she waits for the sun to shine through and goes over them with a fine toothcomb, the only compliant i get is from her, dont know what to do.... this is trad by the way, might do hers with my back pack next time, she wont see anything then unless it spots

[leapstallbuildings]

this is precisely why im a little bit worried about goin WFP.ive been TRAD for 15 yrs and most days im happy with what i earn and the simplicity of the job.i have quite a lot of big posh houses and im worried my standards will slip.there r a lot of TRAD cleaners near me and i dont want to lose custys.u just dont know what ur leaving behind.im worried itll all b an expensive mistake and a lot of hassle.i use TRAD poles but i dont think custys will like the water everywhere,leaving wet windows etc if i get a system and van next year.im a master squeegy man and my custys often comment how good my work is!and i enjoy TRAD,low overheads,simple life etc and im happy!im really in two minds AGAIN : : :

I think you may need to think of a different picture.  If you take the time to do everything to perfection, this can make a less viable business than doing it good enough most of the time with the odd imperfection sometimes.  The second way makes more money than the first.  The second way will also probably bring the odd complaint.  It was the same principle when I was trad only.  To make decnt money, there might have been the occasional imperfection and complaint.  Putting this right (or even losing the custie) was more viable than doing everything perfectly.
WFP is fine for most windows most of the time and can often do as good a job as trad (sometimes even better).  However, you may need to cut yourself some slack on the first cleans (and hope that the custie does too).  Also, use a decent flow rate - especially at first.
WFP may take longer on first cleans if you do them properly and while you get used to a new way of working.  However, it will eventually be faster on nearly all jobs - a LOT faster on some.
Of course, there is also the much improved safety aspect too.

[Niall McAllister]

this is precisely why im a little bit worried about goin WFP.ive been TRAD for 15 yrs and most days im happy with what i earn and the simplicity of the job.i have quite a lot of big posh houses and im worried my standards will slip.there r a lot of TRAD cleaners near me and i dont want to lose custys.u just dont know what ur leaving behind.im worried itll all b an expensive mistake and a lot of hassle.i use TRAD poles but i dont think custys will like the water everywhere,leaving wet windows etc if i get a system and van next year.im a master squeegy man and my custys often comment how good my work is!and i enjoy TRAD,low overheads,simple life etc and im happy!im really in two minds AGAIN : : :

If you go into it with high standards only you can let them slip. if you want to keep them high you will.
and you don't have to get rid of your ladders, I only offer wfp, but I have my bucket in the passenger footwell for when i need it.

[dai]

This was a regular 6 weekly clean. I read about some of the times quoted on here and there's no way I can match some of these claims for speed. I do take my time and do the very best I can. I wonder if some guys are doing the bottoms while the tops are still dripping over them.
If you had looked at these windows front on, you may not have noticed the marks I had left, but with the sun being low and the angle just right , you could see them all.
As soon as these marks were whetted they disappeared. I am wondering if my shades had something to do with this, I was wearing subscription polarised glasses, these cut out all reflected glare and maybe made the marks more difficult to see. I was using the superlight dual trim flocked brush on the tops, and a Vykan on the bottoms, both left marks.
I have a small piece of plastic scouring pad on the side of the superlite, this did remove the marks.
I rarely get any complaints about my WFP work, and the ones I have had were nothing to do with the glass being clean.
My main concern yesterday was how many of these marks have I left in the past, when I thought I had done an excellent job.

[Small but perfectley formed]

Doing windows trad or wfp you cannot acheive perfection 100 of the time ,if no one complains no point in thinking about it, if they complain put it right this is what i do and it works for me.

[dazmond]

i average 4 3bed semis an hour on my compact work which is 2 wks on 2 big estates.everybody got 3 bins these days,some flat roofs over garages,then theres the cat/dog muck,2 cars on the drives,garden furniture etc.i cant see WFPbein any quicker however my other 2 weeks work is scattered big houses some georgian/leaded etc and i think i would save time on the accounts that take me an hour TRAD.but these are the custys that make me the most money with the 3 bedders my 'bread and butter work'.im on a water meter and live in a first floor flat.higher overheads.water bills,resin,decent poles,etc,etc.equipment problems.its seems a lot of hassle.water is 35 tds tho so i would only need a DI.no trolley for me and barrels.i would go for van mount with backpack probably.some of u lads are only cleaning as many houses as me a day with WFP.still not sure : : :

[JRDEasiReach]

I find cleaning windows that have been done traditionally or even cleaned by the customer themselves need more of a rinse due to the detergents used around the rims of the frames, thats what leaves the runs mostly, although windows that havent been cleaned in donkeys years on old painted frames will do the same.  Ive had no complaints so far from anyone so im happy enough.

[dazmond]

i also forgot to say most of my work is monthly and in the leafy suburbs and sometimes there filthy with all the crap off the trees,pollen,birdmuck,insect poo.i just dont know how u can keep scrubbing with a wet brush and be quicker than TRAD.DO U HAVE TO GET THE LADDERS OUT IF THE STUBBORN STUFF DOESNT COME OFF?i think the poles should have a scraper fixed to back of brush.what about ur arms and neck using poles all day?constantly reeling hoses in all day?sounds like a nightmare.not even mentioned system freezing or getting stolen,pump problems.AND THAT DAMN HOSE SNAGGING ON EVERYTHING AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN : : :

[JRDEasiReach]

horses for courses daz we are all different and use what makes us happy

[dazmond]

JRD uv only been goin a month havent u?

[JRDEasiReach]

yep and most if not all of my cleans have been rotten with bird muck, etc on them, they have all come up well Its what i wanted to get and its what im sticking with, there will be lows, there will be highs but i'll tramp on and come out the other side smiling when im looking at my bank balance

[dazmond]

best wishes JRD im glad ive stuck at it all these years {15} and im only 37.plenty of life in me yet!

[elite mike]

yep and most if not all of my cleans have been rotten with bird muck, etc on them, they have all come up well Its what i wanted to get and its what im sticking with, there will be lows, there will be highs but i'll tramp on and come out the other side smiling when im looking at my bank balance

i like it

[ftp]

No complaints from my custies - but I'm never happy with wfp and wouldn't trust it 100% ever. However, having said that I'm never happy with my trad results either 
What I am happy with though is keeping both feet on the ground.

[bad trippy]

WFP was invented for ease and speed for the window cleaner simple as that. Granted it is safer than ladders but i sometimes wonder if the window cleaner buys the kit soley for the safety aspect or for other benefits?
If WFP was say 30% slower than trad i wonder just how many w/c would be using it ?
All my life ive been trad and damn good at it too but last few months ive been converting over to WFP
Why? Because its a piece of cake thats why, im not scared of ladders and i always use ladders in a safe way.
Do i think the results of WFP are any better? Nope
Using WFP can i walk away confident of the quality of the work? Nope
Using trad can i walk away confident of the quality of work? Yes
Using trad do i fear complaints? Nope
Using Wfp do i fear complaints? Bag of nerves
Do you sometimes cringe when customers sees and hears all the water crashing down to their pathes?

Do you get fed up with all the costs of WFP?
Worried about freezing weather when WFP?

Now ask yourself the real reason you spent thousands on WFP

[JRDEasiReach]

I didnt spend thousands on mine, just 2500 and i bought it for ease of use and speed although it takes time to get up to speed though in line with doing the job right.  I can also get cheaper PL insurance something im sure ladder men have trouble getting or in some cases dont have it at all!!