[john tomkins]

I try my best to get a perfect result everytime but it just ain't gonna happen, get inside the house when the windows are dry and something will show up.

Maybe it's just me, as these "I always get a 100% perfect clean everytime" seem to nail it.
Then again, either they are partially sighted/ have low standards/ or just exaggerate
Thankfully most customers have got other things to worry about in life than minutely examining each and every window you've cleaned

[dazmond]

so there we have it.WFP crap then in the main?thanks for ur honesty guys.i can well understand using WFP on commercial etc but domestic which is my whole round im probably better sticking to TRAD and extension poles for awkward windows.it just seems a lot of hassle and expense and who knows?maybe ur domestic custys are not saying anything yet but in a year or so might switch to a TRAD cleaner with a good reputation if one comes along.im better off pricing well,doin a good job and piece of mind knowing i left the windows spotless especially if im taking 20 or 30quid off them every month.low overheads and less money but normal water bills,no forking out on expensive poles that last 2 mins,no pump problems,hoses snagging/freezing,nice tidy little van and not a monster one to carry all that water about!a lot to be said for the simple life

best wishes to everyone

DAZMOND

[ftp]

What I've found lately is that when using a flocked brush I'm managing to get horizontal trails of spots obviously where the last few bristles must be trailing the glass on a rinse. I've read so many reports of people rinsing on even with a flocked superlight that I've believed it possible even though I normally try to rinse off glass. I don't like black bristles either 'cos I can't see the dirt but I do like the feel of a flocked brush.


Oh, and another clamp lever pinged off this morning - I'm even more miserable now.  

[ftp]

Dazmond trad and a pole might be even crapper! You need to get inside and up close to see the results.

[dazmond]

FTP ive been using extension poles for a few years now.i find they come up ok as long as i make sure i use a good rubber on blade and use a dry microfibre in a fixiclamp for detailing.i do my flat windows every so often with the pole and they come up good bar the odd line at the edge where the water has dried before ive detailed.at first they came up crap but got a lot better with practice.most custys are just glad that ive even attempted to clean the awkward windows as they usually say their last WC didnt bother.i only use the pole for dodgy ones and ladders for everything else

regards dazmond

[dazmond]

thanks ewan but no way is WFP mainstream on domestics in manchester.i think they ll always be room for a squeegy!maybe different in afew years.so are ur 4 bungalows ur only happy custys then? ;Dand are they partially sighted or family and friends?

[ronnie paton]

see the thing is simon they need all this information to giv you a proper quote!!

you cant just say im a window cleaner ok well here is a price wha if your jumping off the side of 18 storey buildings.....my point being the same has van insurance many wont even be covered has they have not informed of there modficaion or in your case what methods are being used and at what height.

[windowswashed]

I don't aim to do a perfect job with wfp method. Acceptable level suits me fine.

I made the mistake of cleaning everything when trad and trying to reach perfection every time at a cost to me. Don't make the same mistake now I'm wfp. Don't care for perfection...just more time in bed and more money in my pocket.

[bridger windows]

Ive had a demonstration by ionics with heated water and the window that was cleaned twice is still clean. Whereas when ive cleaned them trad it would have been filthy by now and i live by a main road. provided glass alone is rinsed properly after the frames Hot Water fed pole is a better result than traditional. Ive been trad for 8 years and am in process of buying all the gear. I will get round my jobs faster without the risk of serious injury, and as a bonus will earn considerably more wonga!

Hot Pure Water convinced me after 3 previous demos

When everything else is going up in price, i can tell my customers instead of price rise, they will be getting the frames cleaned as well as the glass for the same money! only takes one slip on the ladder to ruin your life. and being self employed we will get bugger all help from government!

[simon knight]

see the thing is simon they need all this information to giv you a proper quote!!

you cant just say im a window cleaner ok well here is a price wha if your jumping off the side of 18 storey buildings.....my point being the same has van insurance many wont even be covered has they have not informed of there modficaion or in your case what methods are being used and at what height.

Ronnie, let me please clarify what Public Liability Insurance is:

It is insurance to indemnify a person(s) against damage to 3rd parties.

Think of it as 3rd party fire and theft car insurance. You hit another car...the other car gets his car repaired on your insurance. Your car is isn't covered because you've only insured against damage to other peoples cars.

Jumping off the side of 18 storey buildings is clearly suicide and would not be covered by any insurance company ever!

The insurance companies are not really fussed what methods you clean with (wfp or trad), they're not fussed at what height you work at and they're certainly not fussed if you kill yourself, because they're not covering you personally.  They have one concern:

You injure somebody as a result of your work, thus the £2.5m cover.

Imagine this. You fall off your ladder and onto Mr jones who is coming out of his front door on the way to work. You break his back and he can never work again.  He WAS earning £200k a year and as such sends his 2 kids to private school, has a large mortgage and loans on his 3 cars. He could finance all this because of his £200k salary. BUT, because the window cleaner has left him in a wheelchair for life and unable to work he can't afford all this...he's 35 and has 25 years of work life left.

25 years @ £200k = £5,000,000

And on top of that his lawyer would sue for loss of quality of life and pain and suffering.

At this point if you were only insured for £2.5m you might consider jumping off a 18 storey window

Trust me Axa are not bothered about Simon Knight breaking a pane of glass!

[Sean Dyer]

see the thing is simon they need all this information to giv you a proper quote!!

you cant just say im a window cleaner ok well here is a price wha if your jumping off the side of 18 storey buildings.....my point being the same has van insurance many wont even be covered has they have not informed of there modficaion or in your case what methods are being used and at what height.

Ronnie, let me please clarify what Public Liability Insurance is:

It is insurance to indemnify a person(s) against damage to 3rd parties.

Think of it as 3rd party fire and theft car insurance. You hit another car...the other car gets his car repaired on your insurance. Your car is isn't covered because you've only insured against damage to other peoples cars.

Jumping off the side of 18 storey buildings is clearly suicide and would not be covered by any insurance company ever!

The insurance companies are not really fussed what methods you clean with (wfp or trad), they're not fussed at what height you work at and they're certainly not fussed if you kill yourself, because they're not covering you personally.  They have one concern:

You injure somebody as a result of your work, thus the £2.5m cover.

Imagine this. You fall off your ladder and onto Mr jones who is coming out of his front door on the way to work. You break his back and he can never work again.  He WAS earning £200k a year and as such sends his 2 kids to private school, has a large mortgage and loans on his 3 cars. He could finance all this because of his £200k salary. BUT, because the window cleaner has left him in a wheelchair for life and unable to work he can't afford all this...he's 35 and has 25 years of work life left.

25 years @ £200k = £5,000,000

And on top of that his lawyer would sue for loss of quality of life and pain and suffering.

At this point if you were only insured for £2.5m you might consider jumping off a 18 storey window

Trust me Axa are not bothered about Simon Knight breaking a pane of glass!

I think he is talking about abseiling mate!!

[dai]

I try my best to get a perfect result everytime but it just ain't gonna happen, get inside the house when the windows are dry and something will show up.

Maybe it's just me, as these "I always get a 100% perfect clean everytime" seem to nail it.
Then again, either they are partially sighted/ have low standards/ or just exaggerate
Thankfully most customers have got other things to worry about in life than minutely examining each and every window you've cleaned

I agree with you John, that's exactly how I find it too. I don't get complaints either. Maybe I'm too fussy, but what may well be acceptable to my customers is sometimes unacceptable to me.
There is no way I would get back on the ladders though.

[simon knight]

see the thing is simon they need all this information to giv you a proper quote!!

you cant just say im a window cleaner ok well here is a price wha if your jumping off the side of 18 storey buildings.....my point being the same has van insurance many wont even be covered has they have not informed of there modficaion or in your case what methods are being used and at what height.

Ronnie, let me please clarify what Public Liability Insurance is:

It is insurance to indemnify a person(s) against damage to 3rd parties.

Think of it as 3rd party fire and theft car insurance. You hit another car...the other car gets his car repaired on your insurance. Your car is isn't covered because you've only insured against damage to other peoples cars.

Jumping off the side of 18 storey buildings is clearly suicide and would not be covered by any insurance company ever!

The insurance companies are not really fussed what methods you clean with (wfp or trad), they're not fussed at what height you work at and they're certainly not fussed if you kill yourself, because they're not covering you personally.  They have one concern:

You injure somebody as a result of your work, thus the £2.5m cover.

Imagine this. You fall off your ladder and onto Mr jones who is coming out of his front door on the way to work. You break his back and he can never work again.  He WAS earning £200k a year and as such sends his 2 kids to private school, has a large mortgage and loans on his 3 cars. He could finance all this because of his £200k salary. BUT, because the window cleaner has left him in a wheelchair for life and unable to work he can't afford all this...he's 35 and has 25 years of work life left.

25 years @ £200k = £5,000,000

And on top of that his lawyer would sue for loss of quality of life and pain and suffering.

At this point if you were only insured for £2.5m you might consider jumping off a 18 storey window

Trust me Axa are not bothered about Simon Knight breaking a pane of glass!

I think he is talking about abseiling mate!!

Doesn't matter if you abseil, sea-sail or go to the sales: YOU don't count. 3rd party is precisely that: What the insurance companies liability is should you damage property and/or persons whilst doing your job.

[ronnie paton]

there is ore risk to Property or 3ed party if the methods you use have more risks think about it, you dont need to explain what Public Liablity is to me thanks for your intrest though

[ronnie paton]

well according to you it doesnt matter and i guess you know better than an insurance team leader?

according to you all sole traders without employees will be paying the same price wether they absail sea sail or go to the sales......im intresting

[ronnie paton]

Q What does a public liability insurance policy cover?   

A That really depends on the type of policy you take out. All public liability policies provide cover for damage to property belonging to a third party and personal injury sustained by a third party following your negligence. However most policies for window cleaners exclude damage to glass or anything else you may clean. Most policies also restrict the maximum height you can work at to 15m and restrict the premises you work on to houses, office, shops and hotels. Any work you carry out at other premises will be excluded. 

from the insurers guide on the allied site...

[advanced]

The same applies  with fly poop in the summmer  you think its gone then when the windows dries it re appears , why can,t  some one  put an ad  on on the side of brush that can make  those stubborn marks  go away ie some type of non abrasive pad.

[simon knight]

Q What does a public liability insurance policy cover?   

 Most policies also restrict the maximum height you can work at to 15m and restrict the premises you work on to houses, office, shops and hotels. Any work you carry out at other premises will be excluded. 

15m? That's 45ft. I don't know any trad guys who'll go that high.

Houses, office, shops and hotels...think that covers it for 99.99% of window cleaners.

Sorry Ronnie what point are you trying to make?

[dai]

The same applies  with fly poop in the summmer  you think its gone then when the windows dries it re appears , why can,t  some one  put an ad  on on the side of brush that can make  those stubborn marks  go away ie some type of non abrasive pad.

I have made a special WFP pad by jetting  a stanley paint pad and sticking a non scratch scouring pad on it.
I wish I had taken it with me the other day.

[Mike #1]

seems there is alot of doubt with wfp in the first 6 months yes, but not so much now, Yes i agree it ain't 100% everytime but can any window cleaner guarantee 100% perfection with trad NO bird poo is dificult to shift at times and u can't shift it totally everytime but on certain ones were i have struggled i think custys give me the benifit of the doubt as i am not on extension roof where roof damage is possible with trad , Also i have 5 million pl ins people will try and sue you for anything thesse days you need to really well covered i feel since going wfp i am providing a more professional business i have stepped up my game since converting