[Sean Dyer]

to be even more technical they are paying for clean windows

[dave f]

iwas toying with idea of going wfp but i am amazed the amount of work i have picked up with out cavesing from old and new custies alike majority have complained about the standard of work and the price so i have decided to put it on the back boiler for the time being and stick to a time trusted method

[mark dew]

iwas toying with idea of going wfp but i am amazed the amount of work i have picked up with out cavesing from old and new custies alike majority have complained about the standard of work and the price so i have decided to put it on the back boiler for the time being and stick to a time trusted method

They are probably looking for a cheap window cleaner? Or at least one that doesn't appear to earn more money than them?

[dazmond]

i had a custy today who said her friends WC has changed over to WFP recently and her windows were a mess when he,d been!maybe he hadnt a clue or didnt scrub properly.im gona get a van and system next yr tho.all these wfpolers on here cant be wrong!its trial and error and gettin used to a different way of cleaning i think.if i can do away with 80per cent of my ladder work and be slightly faster id be happy.i was struggling a bit today TRAD.get tired of all the climbing at times : :

[dazmond]

i had a custy today who said her friends WC has changed over to WFP recently and her windows were a mess when he,d been!maybe he hadnt a clue or didnt scrub properly.im gona get a van and system next yr tho.all these wfpolers on here cant be wrong!its trial and error and gettin used to a different way of cleaning i think.if i can do away with 80per cent of my ladder work and be slightly faster id be happy.i was struggling a bit today TRAD.get tired of all the climbing at times : :

[dave f]

one old gent when i was talking the benifits quiped its just being bone idle and another way of making a quick buck lazey gits

[shaunjames]

I'm going to be a bit controversial here, but have been reading the comments about WFP v Traditional. I been window cleaning now for about 4 years. I was made redundant from my post as a Telecomms Engineer and my neighbour had a family relative that was selling a round and decided to give it a go to to keep some cash coming in. After paying him 2 grand for the round I started to panic, when I learnt about WFP. I started initially working from my car, then later bought a van. It took me a good year to get to grips with the new technology. 4 years on, I'm as good as it gets. Firstly in my opinion with the exception of perhaps a tiny minority, traditional cleaning cannot hold a candle to WFP. There are in my opinion a lot of window cleaners, who are just not up to the job and in it mainly for a quick and easy buck. During my time window cleaning, have worked with many WFP and Traditional operators and the standard of cleaning beggars belief. A lot of this is partly due to some of the larger companies employing lads who have no vested interest in what they do, whereas traditionally, window cleaners of old worked solely for themselves. Also WFP does require a high level of technique and experience, combined with the right attitude and approach to how you go about your work. Also the dash for cash I think is a factor, some of the WFP  pricing borders on obscene, placing quantity over quality. I try to work to about £25 p/h, but in reality it often drops below this as I wont compromise my standards, but I remind myself what a great way to earn a living and the hospitality I'm shown( hot cuppa, bacon butty, free use of holiday home etc) treat the customer well and most will return in kind.     
Do I have an ego? maybe, but in the 4 years I have been cleaning I have not lost a single customer from my original round (Traditional) and nearly all have commented as to the superior standard of work WFP gives to traditional.
Shaun

[Mike 108]

Good post! - and much truth!

[John Walker]

I'm going to be a bit controversial here, but have been reading the comments about WFP v Traditional. I been window cleaning now for about 4 years. I was made redundant from my post as a Telecomms Engineer and my neighbour had a family relative that was selling a round and decided to give it a go to to keep some cash coming in. After paying him 2 grand for the round I started to panic, when I learnt about WFP. I started initially working from my car, then later bought a van. It took me a good year to get to grips with the new technology. 4 years on, I'm as good as it gets. Firstly in my opinion with the exception of perhaps a tiny minority, traditional cleaning cannot hold a candle to WFP. There are in my opinion a lot of window cleaners, who are just not up to the job and in it mainly for a quick and easy buck. During my time window cleaning, have worked with many WFP and Traditional operators and the standard of cleaning beggars belief. A lot of this is partly due to some of the larger companies employing lads who have no vested interest in what they do, whereas traditionally, window cleaners of old worked solely for themselves. Also WFP does require a high level of technique and experience, combined with the right attitude and approach to how you go about your work. Also the dash for cash I think is a factor, some of the WFP  pricing borders on obscene, placing quantity over quality. I try to work to about £25 p/h, but in reality it often drops below this as I wont compromise my standards, but I remind myself what a great way to earn a living and the hospitality I'm shown( hot cuppa, bacon butty, free use of holiday home etc) treat the customer well and most will return in kind.     
Do I have an ego? maybe, but in the 4 years I have been cleaning I have not lost a single customer from my original round (Traditional) and nearly all have commented as to the superior standard of work WFP gives to traditional.
Shaun

Spot on 

[JW1]

To clarify, are you saying that any bad reputaion that WFP has is down to poor operators only, and that a good WFP'er can leave better results than a good Trad? 

[mark dew]

To clarify, are you saying that any bad reputaion that WFP has is down to poor operators only

I believe that to be most of the time. Yes.

[dazmond]

good post shaun but ive been TRAD 15 yrs now and do a good job most of the time!as for WFP bein FAR superior to TRAD?well i cant comment as ive not tryed WFP yet!i do agree some pricing bein quoted on here as a bit eccesssive but it does depend on area as well.im in manchester and earn 20 pound an hour min,sometimes 40!but not hour after hour!and thats trad!WFP i would hope to do 30pound an hour regularly with the added costs and u want to make extra on top or whats the point?safety?yes but more money must be the main motivation for goin WFP!!OR AM I MISSING SOMETHING???

[tomy jackson]

safety is the only resan i went WFP .and mr giles s spot on ,

[JW1]

Safety is the only reason I am considering it, but not if it means I leave a worse finish and have a load of hassle with equipment.

Generally speaking, no-one has been able to convince me of that 

[shaunjames]

When I say WFP is superior, it's not just about the window itself. When working of a ladder, there have been many times for instance when getting a good footing has compromised the way I approach cleaning windows, I personally feel that all considered, window ,frame, safety and finish are served better by using WFP as a package. I'm probably contradicting myself here, but a good Trad cleaner often will do a better job than WFP, but that is simply down to the operator not the system itself. As I mentioned earlier, most Trad cleaners worked solely for themselves and were directly responsible for both standards of workmanship and the type of customer they pitched at. Now we have a supermarket scenario developing, where because of the perceived low skill requirements of WFP, and chasing the buck,companies are paying lads £6.50 - £7.50 an hour and because there actually doing the work, seeing first hand how much is charged and also possibly collecting the money, they feel hard done by, which doesn't always lend itself to good motivation. I know this to be true as I have been approached by many lads working for companies and asking me about starting up themselves. Also its probably true that the pot of money available to window cleaners historically, is now because of WFP increasingly going to bosses to fund there lifestyles. For instance there is a company where I work and one of the lads is a good friend of mine, he works on average for 60 - 70 hours per week for about £350 and his boss takes a good 3 or 4 holidays a year (Brazil, Cuba, Mexico etc). Ultimately its down to the individual to make his own choices, and I would respect that but overall it can have a negative effect on the morale of employees and there workmanship. This is the fundamental change in the dynamics of window cleaning in that it affords entrepreneurs the opportunity to make a killing out of the trade, but in turn, can turn the industry into a racket. For me the unique relationship between window cleaner and there customers is paramount.

[dai]

The point of the original thread Shaun is that WFP is not always as good as we think it is.
I get very few complaints about WFP, and the ones I do get are never to do with the quality of the clean.
It came as a shock to me that bird muck that I had diligently scrubbed off, reappeared once the windows were dry and could be examined in bright sunlight. This was the case on about four different windows, one pane I returned to five times before it was really clean.
I know there are some slap dash cleaners, I've seen them myself, but I am not one of them.
As said, Ian Giles's post was a fair and honest appraisal, we do the job the best we can in a given time, but it ain't always perfect, no matter what method we use.

[dave f]

abit of a late reply to responce achap said would not compremise his work and trd guys are only in it for a quick buck .that is boll*** but the same could be said for wfp how offten do you here people say how quick wfp is etc in the last 2 month alone ive picked up more work with out canvasing from a wide range of un happy custys alot out of town areas so to say  its the same wfper is slim to say the least . their a good and bad in both 

[NWH]

I trust hot wfp 100%, I trust cold wfp 80%. Trusting certain brushes for certain jobs also ensures confidence in ability to clean windows thoroughly.

Back to using hot water now everyday until spring i had forgotton how much better hot water was than cold, no comparison.