Interested In Advertising? | Contact Us Here
Warning!

 

Welcome to Clean It Up; the UK`s largest cleaning forum with over 34,000 members

 

Please login or register to post and reply to topics.      

 

Forgot your password? Click here

Paul Coleman

Re: Window Cleaning Business Coach PART TWO
« Reply #140 on: January 04, 2009, 10:27:25 am »
Kevin what would in your estimation be the average hourly income for a window cleaner in Canada?

Matt

The typical successful owner/operators earn $55/hr to $100/hr and up.

Are you talking turnover or profit?

That's gross revenue.

If you've watched the free video recording of my seminar down in Rhode Island, then you'll see a room full of owner/operator window cleaning business owners come to a consensus of about $75/hr for a typical owner/operator:

http://dossier-content.s3.amazonaws.com/index.htm

Note to self.  I must sort out the sound on this computer.

Re: Window Cleaning Business Coach PART TWO
« Reply #141 on: January 04, 2009, 10:34:08 am »
Here is your answer, Kevin's as well I dont doubt!

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=W2c5j01Z6yY

Re: Window Cleaning Business Coach PART TWO
« Reply #142 on: January 04, 2009, 10:44:12 am »
lets see what can be done as I'm planning to drop flyers next week!!

Areas 'cut' are for anonymity purposes.

Thx for sharing. Wow, a lot of work has gone into this one.

I'm gonna give you some feedback on this one, too.

First, quick thoughts: example one (top one) has ZERO benefits listed.

Example two has some great, compelling copy loaded up with some solid benefits.

See the difference? You got way too technical, and forgot to ask yourself "why would someone care about all this stuff I'm trying to say?"

It didnt take a great deal of time to produce Kevin, probably the initial copy took about 4 hours. Then it was just a case of moving a few things baout, correcting typos etc, proof-reading again, but it was done more through a challenge/motivation thing rather than a need to pick up work.

Saying that, it does work. Ive used it to target properties Im after and thers been results.

I know what you say about the top and bottom one Kevin (they are the same flier actually, one side is the front the other the back) and yes the second one is more technical, and quite possibly too technical; the reason Ive gone down that route was I think I felt it was an opportunity to at least explain to potential customers the dangers of neglecting gutter clearance (as opposed to 'GUTTER CLEANING'; which doesnt IMO bring the product to the customer, its a basic as it gets)

Matt

Re: Window Cleaning Business Coach PART TWO
« Reply #143 on: January 04, 2009, 10:56:01 am »

See the difference? You got way too technical, and forgot to ask yourself "why would someone care about all this stuff I'm trying to say?"

Why? You know why! You answered it yourself, in a later posting. I know the answer to this and so do you

You're the guy who helped them protect their investment, by educating them about the advantages to having their eavestroughs cleaned regularly.

Re: Window Cleaning Business Coach PART TWO
« Reply #144 on: January 04, 2009, 11:13:00 am »
Kevin, I know how you could (with very little effort on your part, based on devoting your time for a limited period only; but with permanent benefit) increase your revenue 4/5/6 maybe 10 fold. Possibly 20!

Does that sound like a nice plan to you?

It WOULD work, I guarantee it.

Matt

Nathanael Jones

  • Posts: 5596
Re: Window Cleaning Business Coach PART TWO
« Reply #145 on: January 04, 2009, 11:16:35 am »
I like what has been done with Kevin R's flyer,... BUT,.. I've tried a few different types of flyer an this one is the ONLY one that I've gotten real results from. Below is the front & back of the flyer. I print them on A4 160gsm card both sides (Obviously they're turned upside down to print the back, otherwise it'd be the same message on both sides!) and cut down the middle to make A5 sized flyers. I'm interested to see what improvements are suggested,.. not just from Kevin,... lets see what can be done as I'm planning to drop flyers next week!!
 ;D

Hey Nathanael!

i was just about to get to yours on the other forum...

Cool, thx for sharing.

Can you provide more info about what kind of people you're marketing to?

Age?
Gender?
Kids/no kids?
What do they love to do in life?
What do they want out of life?

Thx!

I put that one together to attract new domestic customers within a 2 mile radius of where I live,.. people who would be familiar with the company name at least.

The results have been:
40% repeat window cleaning work, mostly 8 weekly, mostly in more affluent area's of the town, mostly professional couples or families with young children.

30% was one off window cleaning work,.. I expect most of these ppl to call me again, but probably only once or twice a year. Again, the people who responded were mostly 25 - 40 years old and some had young families. I also had 1 older lady want this service.

30% was gutter cleaning & powerwashing work. The response for this service was over a much wider demographic, and geographic area. I had calls from well outside the area's leafleted that were related to someone who received a flyer!
The main reason that I believe these flyers work is that they pushe the householder to immediate action,... put the flyer in the window now,... whereas many ppl would put off making a phone call until a later time, and either forget or talk to a friend in the meantime who could recommend another cleaner. That immediate call to action IMO is a vital component of any successful flyer.


I'm not sure how it is in Canada, but in Ireland we get a huge amount of junk mail & flyer advertising. Even on weekends there are distributors out dropping flyers,.. I get a minimum of 10 flyers a week I'd imagine. I might be wrong in this assumption, but going by my personal reaction to the junk mail I assume that the majority of ppl won't read all the blurb, so I try to keep my flyers simple and to the point.
I've tried flyers similar to Matt Oakley's ones (Which were quite costly to get printed!) and I've been very disappointed with the results. I never regret it though, as even an unsuccessful flyer helps to build the "Brand"!

williamx

Re: Window Cleaning Business Coach PART TWO
« Reply #146 on: January 04, 2009, 01:45:24 pm »
Great, welcome to Blighty and I look forward to the day when you approach my customers with you pricing struture, one of them I charge £175 every 6 weeks, I can't wait to see their faces when you quote them £875 or another one who is charged £55 every 2 weeks, I bet they can't wait to start paying £275, or the lowest on my list who pay £10 every 4 weeks, what joy they will have paying £50.

All of these customers have been targeted in the past and they will be targeted also in the future, but they choose to stay with me, why, well I would like to think that its all about the service I give them and it cannot bettered or it could be they like me, bacause I like every single one of them, or as the one who pays £175 and was approched by someone at half the price "its better to stay with the devil you know rather than one you don't" andthey already know I ofer a ultra 1st service and they get presents every christmas as well my other customers.

What if I charged the SAME as you, or a tad more than you, and had awesome marketing materials ans systems in motion? Would you be nervous then?

And what if I did a lot more than simply give them a little gift at the end of the year?

Its not only about way high prices, its about stealing work that you want, and carving out and dominating niches.

With your above quote, this shows why your marketing ideas and skills will not work here in the uk.
 
The reason I say this is because 90% of window cleaners will not and do not "TARGET" other window cleaners work, in the usa/canada it is acceptable for dog to eat dog, but the uk is we are more laid back and non aggressive.

I have seen many salesmen take the american  way of selling, which is all in your face, yes they do get results and some can be very impressive, but they also have the highest cancelation rate as well.

Marketing will always help your business, but trying to sell marketing ideas that are good in one country but alien to other will not work.

Some of your responses have been aggessive in nature and you have tried to say that we all can earn "zillions" by using your marketing skills.

In the UK the window cleaning industries is worth no more than £200 million, yet you are going to turn all those who sign up to your package and they want to be the very sucessful into "zillionaires" HOW? are you going you increase how much is spent on window cleaning in the UK by 10000% and where are all of these window going to come from?.

Have you ever been to an "Amway Sales Conference" where they all hype each other up into a freenzy and they are all convinced that the are going to be millionaires.

I have meet quite a few people who sell "Amway" products, I have not meet one millionaire though.

In the UK we like the passive method.

If I was you, I would come over here and get a feel of the people who you are going to market too, you will then see that the "flash bang bling" approach is not needed and you will understand why it won't work.

Marketing requires various responses to what you are selling, if its a "Bentley" or "Rolls" then a more upmarket approach is required, but with window cleaning it is not, "delusions of grandeur" come to mind also "over kill".

You also say that the "The typical successful owner/operators has a turnover gross of $55/hr to $100/hr and up," well I must be very successful because I have a turnover of between $61.25 to $122.5 per hour at todays exchange rate, and at times I do earn more.

So If I can build up a business this successful then surely that shows that my "marketing skills" are also very successful and cannot be ignored.

 

ftp

  • Posts: 4694
Re: Window Cleaning Business Coach PART TWO
« Reply #147 on: January 04, 2009, 01:54:48 pm »
Anyway? is that Amway? I think that's the pyramid selling people from the eighties. I went to one of those meetings and watched the gullable get sucked in. The only rich ones were at the top of the pyramid miles away.  ::)

williamx

Re: Window Cleaning Business Coach PART TWO
« Reply #148 on: January 04, 2009, 02:05:12 pm »
Yep that the ones, and the ideas that the "coach" is suggesting are the same that "Amway" use to preach.


WCBusinessCoach

  • Posts: 121
Re: Window Cleaning Business Coach PART TWO
« Reply #149 on: January 04, 2009, 03:29:43 pm »

It didnt take a great deal of time to produce Kevin, probably the initial copy took about 4 hours. Then it was just a case of moving a few things baout, correcting typos etc, proof-reading again, but it was done more through a challenge/motivation thing rather than a need to pick up work.

Oh, so this is not a flier that you believe has been created and designed well?

Saying that, it does work. Ive used it to target properties Im after and thers been results.

Cool, what kinds of results?

I know what you say about the top and bottom one Kevin (they are the same flier actually, one side is the front the other the back)

Yeah, I caught that...

and yes the second one is more technical, and quite possibly too technical; the reason Ive gone down that route was I think I felt it was an opportunity to at least explain to potential customers the dangers of neglecting gutter clearance (as opposed to 'GUTTER CLEANING'; which doesnt IMO bring the product to the customer, its a basic as it gets)

Actually, when I said it was technical, I was talking about the TOP one, not the bottom one, I think you misunderstood me (or I did a really bad job of explaining my point!)

The top one is super technical, and the BOTTOM one is way better at explaining to the client why they need to care about what you're saying. The BOTTOM one is way better than the TOP one, because you clearly explain some important and valuable benefits to the prospect.


Matt

Question: Is this a flier that you target both commercial and residential with?

k

P.S. If you'd like me to rework this flier to make it better, I'll happily do so, but I'd rather see your "best" one, and see what I can do to make it better.


WCBusinessCoach

  • Posts: 121
Re: Window Cleaning Business Coach PART TWO
« Reply #150 on: January 04, 2009, 03:31:02 pm »
Kevin, I know how you could (with very little effort on your part, based on devoting your time for a limited period only; but with permanent benefit) increase your revenue 4/5/6 maybe 10 fold. Possibly 20!

Does that sound like a nice plan to you?

It WOULD work, I guarantee it.

Matt

Talk to me, I'm listening

Re: Window Cleaning Business Coach PART TWO
« Reply #151 on: January 04, 2009, 03:32:18 pm »
I have started to use it to target commercial work Kevin (but only on a limited basis) no returns yet on commercial.

Residential yes it works!!

If you want to re-work it then fine, feel free; I'd be interested to see.

Matt


Re: Window Cleaning Business Coach PART TWO
« Reply #152 on: January 04, 2009, 03:33:52 pm »
Kevin, I know how you could (with very little effort on your part, based on devoting your time for a limited period only; but with permanent benefit) increase your revenue 4/5/6 maybe 10 fold. Possibly 20!

Does that sound like a nice plan to you?

It WOULD work, I guarantee it.

Matt

Talk to me, I'm listening

Sales/Marketing is easy see! I have your attention.


You expect me to just tell you? For free?

What sort of a business man do you think I am  ;)

Saying that I think there is a huge market youve probably not considered approaching yet.

WCBusinessCoach

  • Posts: 121
Re: Window Cleaning Business Coach PART TWO
« Reply #153 on: January 04, 2009, 04:09:28 pm »

With your above quote, this shows why your marketing ideas and skills will not work here in the uk.
 
The reason I say this is because 90% of window cleaners will not and do not "TARGET" other window cleaners work, in the usa/canada it is acceptable for dog to eat dog, but the uk is we are more laid back and non aggressive.

Really, now? So all of the window cleaning clients you have were not using someone else at the time of your soliciting them? Yeah, right.


I have seen many salesmen take the american  way of selling, which is all in your face, yes they do get results and some can be very impressive, but they also have the highest cancelation rate as well.

Hold on, so you believe that yes, I could generate a lot of business, but then they would cancel on me? Why would they do that?


Marketing will always help your business, but trying to sell marketing ideas that are good in one country but alien to other will not work.

I don't understand this comment

Some of your responses have been aggessive in nature and you have tried to say that we all can earn "zillions" by using your marketing skills.

Actually, I don't believe "zillions" is an official measurement, simply an analogy. Sorry for your confusion about it being an actual number.

In the UK the window cleaning industries is worth no more than £200 million, yet you are going to turn all those who sign up to your package and they want to be the very sucessful into "zillionaires" HOW? are you going you increase how much is spent on window cleaning in the UK by 10000% and where are all of these window going to come from?.

I was talking about your situation, which you have since completely re-described, incidentally (is "redescribe" a word? prob not). You were claiming that you have uncontested market space where you are, and that it is easy as pie to snag new clients.

In this kind of environment (imaginary as it seems to be, now), anyone with a squeegee, a smile, and a bucket could make a zillion dollars. Am I wrong?

Now, it sounds like your environment is perhaps not so utopian, after all, but I was taking your comment at face value, and assuming you were telling me something factual, when you were just exaggerating a bit I guess.


Have you ever been to an "Amway Sales Conference" where they all hype each other up into a freenzy and they are all convinced that the are going to be millionaires.

I have meet quite a few people who sell "Amway" products, I have not meet one millionaire though.

Oh, so do you dislike the hype? Or dislike the fact that the hype is a screen to cover over impossible promise?

In the UK we like the passive method.

Who does? You, or your clients? And what is this "passive method" you're talking about?

If I was you, I would come over here and get a feel of the people who you are going to market too, you will then see that the "flash bang bling" approach is not needed and you will understand why it won't work.

My England friends that live here in Toronto are among the most style-conscious, fashionable, trend-following people I know, and they savor the finer things in life, and pay for them regularly.

Marketing requires various responses to what you are selling, if its a "Bentley" or "Rolls" then a more upmarket approach is required, but with window cleaning it is not, "delusions of grandeur" come to mind also "over kill".

That's why your business will always remain where it is, and if that's what you wish, then I don't even know why we're expending brain cells hashing this all out.

However, if you are looking for growth, then stop making excuses about how "with window cleaning it is not" required to market differently, with an upmarket approach, and make comments like "delusions of grandeur".

Stop making excuses and start applying all this valuable marketing knowledge that you said you already know, and have known for a long time. I've never seen someone so emphatic about the vast extent of their knowledge who has done almost nothing the implement what they have learned.

Please listen to me: I think you are a shrewd businessman, and you know a lot about the business of window cleaning. Please start to seriously consider the possibility that the same is not true of your marketing prowess.

Or don't...I'm starting to lose interest in trying to motivate you to do the same thing 10 times in a row.

And, for the record, after endless posts, you've still not shown us anything from your window cleaning company, in terms of an actual marketing piece, to illustrate how great your stuff is, and how well it could work.


You also say that the "The typical successful owner/operators has a turnover gross of $55/hr to $100/hr and up," well I must be very successful because I have a turnover of between $61.25 to $122.5 per hour at todays exchange rate, and at times I do earn more.

Are you falling into my trap, now? :)

I was speaking to these people about how to grow their businesses, and they wanted me to help them do that. I don't care if you're earning $200/hr.

If you have yet to tap into the power of marketing, you're leaving $$ on the table. A gentleman down in the US called me last week, that makes around that, in fact a bit more, with some powerwashing work mixed in, and he wanted to know how to make even more, and I gave him some actionable advice that incorporates marketing far more effectively than what he's doing now, to increase his profitablity even more.

So If I can build up a business this successful then surely that shows that my "marketing skills" are also very successful and cannot be ignored.

Wrong. You're a smart guy, so you do a lot of this business stuff really well, but it hasn't been because you have "very successful marketing skills".

You are in an underserviced, hungry market (your words, remember), and you are currently using basic, cookie-cutter methods, that are not even close to fully-leveraged.

You have basic marketing skills, which is more than what a lot of guys have, but you clearly have not developed expertise in window cleaning marketing.






williamx

Re: Window Cleaning Business Coach PART TWO
« Reply #154 on: January 04, 2009, 04:55:53 pm »
Coach

You claim that you know the window cleaning industy.

Yes you are a window cleaner and you might be very sucessful at being one (why you would want to deviate to another business if this was the "bees knees" is saying a lot though).

But you are a "Canadian" window cleaner not a UK one, there are differences you know.

For example there has always been a shortage of window cleaners in the Uk, I don't live and work in an area where I am the only one, I wish it was so.  In the roads that I clean on there are sometimes 5 different cleaners, we all get on well together and help each other out if need be.

I don't target their customers, because there are enough households out there without a cleaner, the same applies to nearly every member on this and the other forums, if you don't believe me, which you don't, then ask them.

You marketing methods seem to go down the lines that your client will target the other window cleaner who has got the work, that is not going to happen.

But if you do suceed, then this and every other forum will close down, because you do not help those that are in compertition with you, because they will come after your customers and livelihood.

I have already said that marketing is worth its weight in gold, but yours looks like lead.

I suggested that those who need marketing help should go to a company that will work with their businesses, on a one to one basis, you rubbished this idea because the marketing company are not window cleaners and therefore they couldn't understand the window cleaning market, well Sachi and Satchi and one of the top marketing companies in the world, they have had thousands of clients and they have marketed thousands of products that they have no expertise in, yet their marketing ideas have worked.

You also said they are too expensive for a window cleaner, well they do charge a few pounds more than your prices I agree, but not much more, the only difference is your help and marketing ideas come out piecemeal whereas with them you get the whole package and benefits at once, this is well worth the extra cost I think.

Like I said you might be a good marketeer but you do not have a clue about the window cleaning ways that are operated in the Uk, and because of this "flaw" you methods won't work.

And anyone who wants to take your package, remember that you will be required to target your fellow window cleaners, and this will result in your business also been targeted.

The choose is yours.

By the way, I have given various methods that will help all window cleaners generate new business, maybe in your hast to give another aggressive response you failed to notice them.

L.J.Thorpe

  • Posts: 2056
Re: Window Cleaning Business Coach PART TWO
« Reply #155 on: January 04, 2009, 05:07:29 pm »
Kevin what would in your estimation be the average hourly income for a window cleaner in Canada?

Matt

The typical suvvessful owner/operators earn $55/hr to $100/hr and up.
is that canadian dollars ???

Re: Window Cleaning Business Coach PART TWO
« Reply #156 on: January 04, 2009, 05:08:57 pm »
Yes mate, 30-60 squid an hour

L.J.Thorpe

  • Posts: 2056
Re: Window Cleaning Business Coach PART TWO
« Reply #157 on: January 04, 2009, 05:11:45 pm »
Yes mate, 30-60 squid an hour
so whats all the fuss about ???
thats nowt special ;D

williamx

Re: Window Cleaning Business Coach PART TWO
« Reply #158 on: January 04, 2009, 05:24:34 pm »
Don't say that you will only upset him :D ::)

karlosdaze

  • Posts: 174