[Paul Coleman]

You do lose time going up and down ladders yes i agree but a lot of my work is really compact i don't have to keep reeling the hose in and out moving the van.

With ladders i just park up grab my ladder and  traditional gear and im gone for the rest of the day until im finished and save time there not keep moving van or mucking about with poles and hose.

Yes I can see that a very compact round could suffer downtime with van moves.  Although I have some compact blocks of work myself, a lot of my round is quite scattered so wouldn't suffer that problem as badly.  Just take care up those ladders eh?  Although I was fine on ladders, I did have an occasional near miss (VERY near miss in one instance).

[pjulk]

Hi Paul

Yes i will do awkwards one's with WFP and the leaded.

But the majority of my domestics will be traditional.
Im not knocking WFP by any means i think its a good tool but i really hate going to work now since i have been WFP and i get really cheesed of with it sometime's.

These last 6 months or so i have been getting less work done than i used to on ladders and i think its just because i no longer enjoy it.

But since going back on ladders i have started to like the job again.

[simonwonder]

agree with you paul
went wfp nearly 4 years ago  after a fall from ladders
heard about wahd 2005 coming up and went wfp spent a lot on new van and system  and promptly lost a lot of work  have just sold all wfp kit and taken a job wfp for a national cleaning company only because i need to return some money into the coffers
thoroughly enjoyed trad both the method and the customer satisfaction will be rebuilding a round in the near future  the new van will go and replaced with a small car .
trad on a telescopic pole feet on the ground health and safety compliant no trip or slip hazard no massive outlay more profit happy clients and safety compliant  and no ladders to fall off
basically good honest work done in a way that you do not need a flashy leaflet to explain how you do it and client acceptable
RESULT

[pjulk]

I wish you well in your new job.

But i don't think it will be long before you build up another round.

[simonwonder]

already working on a new flyer which will be out by the end of the month emphasiseing not wfp window cleaning
will keep you posted
where are you paul

[pingu]

WFP, trad...does it really matter?, it's only cleaning windows is'nt it.

They are tools of the trade but the divide is almost gang like....mines better than yours....can anyone really say anyone of the systems is better for all users?

Trad can be quicker and as safe as wfp and vicky verky...personally I doubt I could be as fast with trad as wfp on my working week...but individual houses...yup faster with trad.

The end of the day is it about an individuals 'acceptable' turnover against, expenses, time worked, saftey and of course 'how we feel'....if we can tick most of those boxes then we are truely fortunate souls.

Have a great week
Dave.

[gary999]

if your trad or wfp and your happy with the way you work,who gives
a monkeys what anybody else thinks

[Captain Scarlet]

My post arent usually so direct but your not doing it right. Even with a trolley you should be much quicker than trad, and most believe ( I uncluded ) that a van mount is even quicker.

[Captain Scarlet]

Terry Burrows:

can you explain why you seem to view wfp as some huge big conspiracy? If so many people find it quicker than trad what do you have to say to that. The facts are that wfp is MUCH MUCH quicker than trad in MOST circumstances. Its not a maybe anymore, so many people have made the switch over and know its true, its a fact now. wfp is quicker for most window cleaning work. Fact! There is no way of denying it, the evidence is far too overwhelming.

But I do agree that perhaps your round Terry suits trad better. But for most people wfp is quicker. And a good wfp operator can clean glass and frames quicker than any trad cleaner.

Trad is really left behind when it comes to first cleans too. I did a hotel the other day, had it done in 2 hours with 2 operators. This was so soiled that it would have taken the entire day to do by hand. And there the facts. Every single job I do is quicker with a wfp. Your able to take on massive jobs that previously took days and can be done in a matter of hours.

Take a job I quoted for a little while back. The previous trad cleaner ( 3 of them ) took an entire week to clean a massive hotel. They would get accommodation included. But now this is done in less than a day by 2 operators!

But I know what you might say "wfp doesnt clean as well as trad" well its true that its easier to muck up a window using wfp. But a good operator like myself can clean to a superior standard than trad. How do I know this, because I used to use trad methods myself. And thats the problem. Most people have convinced themselves by making the change over. Its not like they have never tried trad methods. Some people on here have used trad methods for 30 years + and made the switch over. Oh and did I mention wfp is safer to. The facts are indisputable. Luke

[simon knight]

Lots of good points there. But in the defense of trad: When I walk away from a job I've done trad I KNOW 100% that it's a job well done because I'm up there hands-on with the glass and can immediately see the result. With wfp you walk away hoping that it all dries OK...sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't.

Also I never have to give the caveat that sometimes it takes 2 or 3 cleans before the windows come up good. If Mrs Public wants her windows "clean" because it's her daughters Christening on Sunday and 30 guests are coming back to her house for canapes and drinks she doesn't want to be told to put the Christening back 3 months because her windows won't be pristine until then.

[Chris Galloway]

Also I never have to give the caveat that sometimes it takes 2 or 3 cleans before the windows come up good. If Mrs Public wants her windows "clean" because it's her daughters Christening on Sunday and 30 guests are coming back to her house for canapes and drinks she doesn't want to be told to put the Christening back 3 months because her windows won't be pristine until then.

If you know how to use wfp properly you would never have to give that excuse for not doing the job properly in the first place!

Its possible to get a good result first time everytime.   

[simon knight]

Also I never have to give the caveat that sometimes it takes 2 or 3 cleans before the windows come up good. If Mrs Public wants her windows "clean" because it's her daughters Christening on Sunday and 30 guests are coming back to her house for canapes and drinks she doesn't want to be told to put the Christening back 3 months because her windows won't be pristine until then.

If you know how to use wfp properly you would never have to give that excuse for not doing the job properly in the first place!

Its possible to get a good result first time everytime.   

Chris I've no doubt whatsoever that in your safe and experienced hands the windows come up great 1st time and every time. But I reckon that for every 1 Chris Galloway there's 6 who walk away "hoping" they dry ok.

I'm sure that most times they do but having been on this site for a number of years I've read countless reports of where they haven't.

WFP is a great piece of innovation but to me it's more hit or miss than trad.

[pjulk]

Simon Knight said -

already working on a new flyer which will be out by the end of the month emphasiseing not wfp window cleaning
will keep you posted
where are you paul

Hi simon i'm based in kent.
Keep us informed it would be good to see how go.

[pjulk]

My post arent usually so direct but your not doing it right. Even with a trolley you should be much quicker than trad, and most believe ( I uncluded ) that a van mount is even quicker.

You aint seen me traditional im pretty quick
It not a question weather its quicker or not i don't really care which way is quicker i prefer traditional and have never been struck on WFP.
And regarding doing WFP right i can use a WFP properly and as said before get excellent result but it's not for me.

[DaveBrown]

A bloke died the other month in my area - fell off his ladder and broke his back and he had been WCing for years. His family is obviously devastated. I can understand scaling back to just WFPing upstairs but to use a ladder again after having already invested in WFP is, imo, crazy! It only takes one bad fall...

[pjulk]

WFP is a great piece of innovation but to me it's more hit or miss than trad

So true i know that a few jobs i have done in the past have not been perfect using WFP and to be honest the amount of time i see posts about spots.
And if you get spots on the outside they look worse looking at them from the inside.
At least with Trad the results are instant if you have made a mistake it gets corrected there and then.
With WFP if you make a mistake you don't know unless a customer rings or you see it the following month.

There is pro's and con's which ever way you do it.

WFP is a great tool but not as good as some make out it is.

[birdymiller]

I dont understand all this doubled the amount off work i do and work less hours since switching to wfp. I wfp the upstairs because if is safer than using ladders and trad downstairs because it saves water. Any time saving is lost when i have to return to van and fill up or re-tread the path i have already taken to do downstairs. Even if i wfp up and down i doubt i could be twice as fast after moving van, reeling, unreeling. Maybe i was too fast at trad. After my initial wrong feeling about wfp, i am now happy and safer and would not go back to ladders. But the choice is yours mate good luck

   

youve just quoted me... let me explain!   because i am quicker and safer wfp, i have more ambitions and enthusiasm, and more energy, and so because i now enjoy my job i have greatly increased (doubled ) my round.....and because i have much more work , i now have the courage to charge a lot more because i can afford to, so whilst i dont literally do twice as much work, i can charge more because i dont need to be cheap to get more work...
as for speed i would say 1 man wfp = 2 men on ladders on my type or work which is mostly large domestic.

It was nothing personal mate, just that when i read things like twice as fast i dont believe it. If you didnt have to refill or move the van then maybe you could get close to 2 trad workers but noway would you be faster in reality.

[windowwashers]

I dont understand all this doubled the amount off work i do and work less hours since switching to wfp. I wfp the upstairs because if is safer than using ladders and trad downstairs because it saves water. Any time saving is lost when i have to return to van and fill up or re-tread the path i have already taken to do downstairs. Even if i wfp up and down i doubt i could be twice as fast after moving van, reeling, unreeling. Maybe i was too fast at trad. After my initial wrong feeling about wfp, i am now happy and safer and would not go back to ladders. But the choice is yours mate good luck

   

youve just quoted me... let me explain!   because i am quicker and safer wfp, i have more ambitions and enthusiasm, and more energy, and so because i now enjoy my job i have greatly increased (doubled ) my round.....and because i have much more work , i now have the courage to charge a lot more because i can afford to, so whilst i dont literally do twice as much work, i can charge more because i dont need to be cheap to get more work...
as for speed i would say 1 man wfp = 2 men on ladders on my type or work which is mostly large domestic.

It was nothing personal mate, just that when i read things like twice as fast i dont believe it. If you didnt have to refill or move the van then maybe you could get close to 2 trad workers but noway would you be faster in reality.

Birdy how long have you been wfp ?

[birdymiller]

Had my kit 5 months and if your going to suggest that i am only a novice then yes i am. But after the few months that i have had wfp i have realised what it takes to achieve good results with the pole. Its not a matter of splashing the pole around the window as im sure you know. To suggest that one wfp worker can be faster than 2 trad workers is crazy in my opinion. Dont forget im the guy who cleans £3 houses all day so i have to get a move on to make any money. Wfp on upstairs is faster than trad but when you take into account packing equipment away, reels, refilling and moving van you cannot be twice as fast 2 trad guys. If you werent going to suggest i am a novice then i apologise.

[trevor perry]

there are some buildings i do that i would love to use the ladder on but the Health and safety on the campus wont allow it, some of the buildings dry perfect other buildings i can only describe as a disgrace even though sometimes i spend ages on them and i would  definately be quicker with ladder on these.
   for all those that say they get them perfect all the time you are welcome to try on some of this work and i guarantee there will be some bad results, but as they are only cleaned once a year and it is the campus that has set the no ladder rules then they have to live with the standards that wfp obtains it is still annoying knowing i could get them perfect using trad.