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richard connett

  • Posts: 44
Re: Whats your Last leaflet drop month
« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2019, 12:54:45 pm »
We donít  use flyers complete waist of time , look at how many Lee Pryor has posted millions of them , very poor return rate , good website and door knocking , once you are well  established work comes to you via  recommendation, and being seen in the community with sign written vans and uniformed staff  , we have never had the need to do anything more  than that ,in fact we turn away more work than we take on , Ime trying to cut back not expand , 3 vans is enough for  me , and hopefully in the next couple of years I will be getting rid of 2 and going back to just one .
Just out of interest mate why are you wanting to go down to one van again?  Wouldn't three be a nice manageable number . Only asking because I want to go from 2 to 3




I am currently working 5 days a week on the tools and quoting jobs evenings and weekends, doing paper work , and sorting out new kit , repairing stuff , maintaining stuff , etc and so the list goes on with three vans itís obviously more work than one and I want to be slowing down after 20 years not building a bigger buisness , I could easily expand and double the size if I wanted to I currently turn away  90% of enquires as we are just to busy . The next step would be me being permanently office based and I hate that , so I have decided to down size in the next couple of years I have someone interested in taking over some of our work , and a couple of my guys are keen to take on some and start there own rounds .

Yeah I can understand where your coming .My idea is when I want to slow down there will be employees working and earning the money so I can take my foot off a bit.  It's interesting this game because the numbers do stack up and you can take it in as many directions as you want. It's nice being able to please yourself and that's why we are all doing it. 

Dry Clean

  • Posts: 2968
Re: Whats your Last leaflet drop month
« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2019, 12:55:29 pm »
Lee, why do you let these people wind you up?

As you have said they hide behind fake user names, for all you know they may not even be window cleaners.
Its because he has no answers so resorts to playing the victim, Iv never said anything about his business that isn't business related, he has built an impressive looking business but way too expensive to run with any real worthwhile profit left over.

Dry Clean

  • Posts: 2968
Re: Whats your Last leaflet drop month
« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2019, 02:01:36 pm »
Lee, why do you let these people wind you up?

As you have said they hide behind fake user names, for all you know they may not even be window cleaners.

I find it hard enough to admit to being a window cleaner never mind faking it.

Plankton

  • Posts: 2362
Re: Whats your Last leaflet drop month
« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2019, 04:50:05 pm »
I see Burpbage is on Facebook saying not to buy window cleaning rounds if paying more than X2 X3 instead you get better return on leaflets or FB advertising. That would look like total BS if he was the one selling the advertising.....

Pete Thompson

  • Posts: 682
Re: Whats your Last leaflet drop month
« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2019, 05:03:11 pm »
I have found no difference in leaflet response rates for ANY time of the year, except the 3 weeks immediately before Christmas.  It always seems to stay rock steady at around 1.8%.

Of those 1.8% responses, conversion is also steady at around 75%.

It's interesting to see how some are drawn to leaflets, some to canvassing.  IMO both have their place, but there are differences in the type of customer who responds.  If you get a response from a leaflet, the customer is the one who has acted.  If you canvass, its you that has acted, the customer just responds.

In my experience, when the customers acts (eg leafleting) it leads to a more reliable customer.  It is they who wanted your service, they didn't need to be persuaded.  This also translates into charging a higher price.  The trick is to make the correct impression with your leaflets, and that is a real skill.  Putting out posh leaflets in a scruffy area doesn't work.  Putting out scruffy leaflets in a posh area doesn't work.  You have to select the type of area you want to target and then design the leaflet accordingly.

I have also found a different response in cities compared to rural areas.  In rural areas, customers are much less responsive to door-knockers.  Suspicious even!

These days I rely on leaflets only.

For Lee: please please please don't get drawn into arguments with forum fools again. That is a blind alley, and will just make you annoyed.  Just ignore them, simple.  I say this because I (selfishly) need you to stay on the forum to answer growth-related questions I have.

dd

  • Posts: 1896
Re: Whats your Last leaflet drop month
« Reply #25 on: August 25, 2019, 05:03:25 pm »
Lee, why do you let these people wind you up?

As you have said they hide behind fake user names, for all you know they may not even be window cleaners.
Its because he has no answers so resorts to playing the victim, Iv never said anything about his business that isn't business related, he has built an impressive looking business but way too expensive to run with any real worthwhile profit left over.
You know this because.......?

Crystal-clear

  • Posts: 2807
Re: Whats your Last leaflet drop month
« Reply #26 on: August 25, 2019, 05:23:47 pm »
I have found no difference in leaflet response rates for ANY time of the year, except the 3 weeks immediately before Christmas.  It always seems to stay rock steady at around 1.8%.

Of those 1.8% responses, conversion is also steady at around 75%.

It's interesting to see how some are drawn to leaflets, some to canvassing.  IMO both have their place, but there are differences in the type of customer who responds.  If you get a response from a leaflet, the customer is the one who has acted.  If you canvass, its you that has acted, the customer just responds.

In my experience, when the customers acts (eg leafleting) it leads to a more reliable customer.  It is they who wanted your service, they didn't need to be persuaded.  This also translates into charging a higher price.  The trick is to make the correct impression with your leaflets, and that is a real skill.  Putting out posh leaflets in a scruffy area doesn't work.  Putting out scruffy leaflets in a posh area doesn't work.  You have to select the type of area you want to target and then design the leaflet accordingly.

I have also found a different response in cities compared to rural areas.  In rural areas, customers are much less responsive to door-knockers.  Suspicious even!

These days I rely on leaflets only.

For Lee: please please please don't get drawn into arguments with forum fools again. That is a blind alley, and will just make you annoyed.  Just ignore them, simple.  I say this because I (selfishly) need you to stay on the forum to answer growth-related questions I have.

Great that we're back On Topic and thanks for the clarification in regards to the response in the winter. It's good to know that from your perspective you can generally drop whenever you like..lee always said the response rate isnt as good out side the theoretical season. Interesting information it's obvious you have leaflet dropped throughout the whole year.

KS Cleaning

  • Posts: 2326
Re: Whats your Last leaflet drop month
« Reply #27 on: August 25, 2019, 05:53:56 pm »
Funny how everyone leaps to Leeís defence but choose not to comment on his arrogance towards Splash & Dash🤔

dd

  • Posts: 1896
Re: Whats your Last leaflet drop month
« Reply #28 on: August 25, 2019, 06:16:38 pm »
Good point KS. I am not especially trying to defend Lee but am often surprised at how some members like to criticize others, for to me, no  good reason. Maybe it is a way of some unconsciously expressing their inferiority complex.

As you pointed out Lee did the same to Splash & Dash. I think most sensible people limit the amount they post on the forum because of this (and the fact there is not much new to post about wfp).

Crystal-clear

  • Posts: 2807
Re: Whats your Last leaflet drop month
« Reply #29 on: August 25, 2019, 06:23:57 pm »
It's one of those things I don't think people want to get involved too much to calm things down.
Perhaps things could have been put a bit differently.. but sometimes when you're right things out they come out differently as well if you know what I mean.

Splash & dash

  • Posts: 1283
Re: Whats your Last leaflet drop month
« Reply #30 on: August 25, 2019, 06:45:15 pm »
Funny how everyone leaps to Leeís defence but choose not to comment on his arrogance towards Splash & Dash🤔



Lol doesnít bother me I just tell it as it is  someone like that will never intimidate or frighten me I will always defend what I believe and can prove to be right , Lee is a very experienced guy but could still learn a lot from much smaller companies than his own , , if you are just going to use leaflets to build a buissness  it will take a long time and the work is spread over a much larger area , all our work is compact apart from the commercial  , on most weeks domestic work we travel a maximum of  45 miles in the whole 5 days work , again this is  a huge saving in diesel ,and no down time driving and sat in traffic , maximising profits , using flyers has proven to work but canvassing produces far  more productive and compact work , once you get to lees size I accept it would be expensive but would still be more cost effective than having vans driving all over the countryside stuck in traffic , if the van is moving you arnt earning money , the more itís stationary the more you are earning , we are only a small company compared to pryors , but our expenses are also tiny , no advertising budget for the past 15 years has been needed saving tens of thousands of pounds , most of our work comes from recommendation from existing customers , the rest from website , the only reason I keep the website going is beacause I want to attract new commercial work , again the costs hear are minimal to I havenít updated the site in years , seo costs around £10 a year thatís it , and we are turning 90% of enquires away , so why do certain companies need to spend tens of thousands per year advertising, personally I think there turn over of customers is very high and the have to constantly be replacing ones , I base this on the reviews that appear on line with a lot of dissatisfied customers , again I accept not all customers are reasonable people , but when you loose the personal touch with quoting jobs and just take on everything that it the result you get , we donít accept all enquires I reject a lot for various reasons , our cancellation rate is virtually zero , most are beacause they are moving or have died . Once you get a large number of customers and loose the personal touch all kinds of problems ensue you only have to look at all the high street multi national companies to see this is true . Again this is why I want to keep my buisness small manageable and me being hands on , I wouldnít want to be in the office all the time doing paper  work , that would be my worst nightmare, for all those wanting to expand your buisness to a multi van operation itís not difficult anyone with an ounce of common sense can do it if they want to , some people try to big themselves up look what Iíve done just like solar Steve did  , wether you have one van with employees in it or 100 vans the principal is the same just a much larger scale , if thatís what you want then go for it but 99% of people are to afrade to try , but would succeed if they did .

Dry Clean

  • Posts: 2968
Re: Whats your Last leaflet drop month
« Reply #31 on: August 25, 2019, 07:01:27 pm »
Lee, why do you let these people wind you up?

As you have said they hide behind fake user names, for all you know they may not even be window cleaners.
Its because he has no answers so resorts to playing the victim, Iv never said anything about his business that isn't business related, he has built an impressive looking business but way too expensive to run with any real worthwhile profit left over.
You know this because.......?

Because I read and follow his posts and then number crunch what he has said.

Dry Clean

  • Posts: 2968
Re: Whats your Last leaflet drop month
« Reply #32 on: August 25, 2019, 07:16:17 pm »
Good point KS. I am not especially trying to defend Lee but am often surprised at how some members like to criticize others, for to me, no  good reason. Maybe it is a way of some unconsciously expressing their inferiority complex.

As you pointed out Lee did the same to Splash & Dash. I think most sensible people limit the amount they post on the forum because of this (and the fact there is not much new to post about wfp).

What is it you want then, is it a forum where anybody can say anything they want without being challanged ?

Dean champion

  • Posts: 22
Re: Whats your Last leaflet drop month
« Reply #33 on: August 25, 2019, 07:40:43 pm »
I have found no difference in leaflet response rates for ANY time of the year, except the 3 weeks immediately before Christmas.  It always seems to stay rock steady at around 1.8%.

Of those 1.8% responses, conversion is also steady at around 75%.

It's interesting to see how some are drawn to leaflets, some to canvassing.  IMO both have their place, but there are differences in the type of customer who responds.  If you get a response from a leaflet, the customer is the one who has acted.  If you canvass, its you that has acted, the customer just responds.

In my experience, when the customers acts (eg leafleting) it leads to a more reliable customer.  It is they who wanted your service, they didn't need to be persuaded.  This also translates into charging a higher price.  The trick is to make the correct impression with your leaflets, and that is a real skill.  Putting out posh leaflets in a scruffy area doesn't work.  Putting out scruffy leaflets in a posh area doesn't work.  You have to select the type of area you want to target and then design the leaflet accordingly.

I have also found a different response in cities compared to rural areas.  In rural areas, customers are much less responsive to door-knockers.  Suspicious even!

These days I rely on leaflets only.

For Lee: please please please don't get drawn into arguments with forum fools again. That is a blind alley, and will just make you annoyed.  Just ignore them, simple.  I say this because I (selfishly) need you to stay on the forum to answer growth-related questions I have.

Good info Pete
I have started leafleting this April with a posh leaflet in all kinds areas found the response and conversion rate exactly the same as yours
The pricing with the leaflets is also higher then my canvasser can achieve selling our service on the spot at the door
I find this increase in price covers for the work being less compact
Pete how many years have you done leaflet drops in the  autumn/winter months ?
Who do you use to drop your leaflets in these months?
 Many Thanks Dean




Perfect Windows

  • Posts: 3474
Re: Whats your Last leaflet drop month
« Reply #34 on: August 26, 2019, 10:10:34 pm »
Great that we're back On Topic and thanks for the clarification in regards to the response in the winter. It's good to know that from your perspective you can generally drop whenever you like..lee always said the response rate isnt as good out side the theoretical season. Interesting information it's obvious you have leaflet dropped throughout the whole year.

A few years ago  we started a new franchisee in October so we leafletted through the winter. Our response rate was almost exactly half what it is in the summer. (My definition of 'summer' here is between the clocks going forward and going back, BTW).

Never did it again; not going to either.

Vin

Michael Peterson

  • Posts: 1677
Re: Whats your Last leaflet drop month
« Reply #35 on: August 28, 2019, 09:34:56 am »
I agree with vin .....however a customer gained in the winter months is often a good customer for some reason in my opinion

Shrek

  • Posts: 2510
Re: Whats your Last leaflet drop month
« Reply #36 on: August 28, 2019, 12:37:50 pm »
I agree with vin .....however a customer gained in the winter months is often a good customer for some reason in my opinion

Thatís true but youíll get a lot of people asking for regular cleans in December and then sack you in January as they just want them cleaned for Xmas . I have for many years now not took any new customers on in December/January so I can make sure I can keep on schedule with the months being shorter ( Xmas holidays)

Perfect Windows

  • Posts: 3474
Re: Whats your Last leaflet drop month
« Reply #37 on: August 28, 2019, 05:47:41 pm »
I agree with vin .....however a customer gained in the winter months is often a good customer for some reason in my opinion

Good point - they do tend to stick.

I agree with vin .....however a customer gained in the winter months is often a good customer for some reason in my opinion

Thatís true but youíll get a lot of people asking for regular cleans in December and then sack you in January as they just want them cleaned for Xmas . I have for many years now not took any new customers on in December/January so I can make sure I can keep on schedule with the months being shorter ( Xmas holidays)

Our solution is that from the start of December they are told that we won't get to them until after Christmas.  Weeds out the wasters. The ones who say "OK, just need someone regular" (or similar) get a clean before Christmas anyway if we can fit them in.

Vin

Splash & dash

  • Posts: 1283
Re: Whats your Last leaflet drop month
« Reply #38 on: August 28, 2019, 05:52:17 pm »
Just charge double or three times the price for the first clean  if they cancel it doesnít matter as you have made your money anyway, we pick up quite a few new jobs around Christmas time and just explain itís a regular service 99 out of a hundred are fine and turn into good customers as they are used to you cleaning in poor weather