[ladders no more]

then why do companys say this sytem is safe in your van and wont kill you

ok the crash test says the cage is safe as you say it was tested for

but this guy said he wants his kids to be safe

is it the same van that was tested bet not

that was my piont not the same vans

so whats the piont of crash test ing in a van

some vans have very little chasis to bolt through

[chris@c.m.s]

I have a DIY system 650l tank and use heavy duty ratchet straps, I also have a factory fitted bulkhead, there is know way I would pay out for an Ionics fitted system no matter how successfully my business was.

Personally I'd be more worried about the weight of a vehicle heading towards me than what's behind me, of cause you need to think about restraining the tank but I think Ionics are really playing on the issue, why do most insurance company's single out window cleaners RE the professionally fitted systems, the DIY system is becoming harder to insure thanks to whom, statistics or prompting from the leading Interest in so called safe systems? There are other professions carrying loads at similar weights that don't even give it a second thought I.E. builders etc.

As for the kid's in the van scenario I have 4 kid's with the youngest 14 and I worry more about him riding his bicycle on the road than sitting in my van and getting a lift to school, there is a risk in everything you do in life, and sometimes the best you can sensibly do is eliminate the most likely.                           

[btc]

If you must choose between Ionics or Brodex. I would go with Ionics. I currently have a brodex di system; but I use ionics filters and poles.
 
Having dealt with both firms; ionics seems to have the better customer care.

Rather than have a complete RO system. I opted for a DI  unit which I use as a delivery system. I purchased the filters and RO from IONICS (4040); which i have set up in the garage. This way i can make water whilst i'm working. Also, I dont have to worry about frost damage.

Its not rocket science, setting up the RO system extremely easy.

[Lee GLS]

I have a DIY system 650l tank and use heavy duty ratchet straps, I also have a factory fitted bulkhead, there is know way I would I pay out for an Ionics fitted system no matter how successfully my business was.

Personally I'd be more worried about the weight of a vehicle heading heading towards me than what's behind me, of cause you need to think about restraining the tank but I think Ionics are really playing on the issue, why do most insurance company's single out window cleaners RE the professionally fitted systems, the DIY system is becoming harder to insure thanks to whom, statistics or prompting from the leading Interest in so called safe systems? There are other professions carrying loads at similar weights that don't even give it a second thought I.E. builders etc.

As for the kid's in the van scenario I have 4 kid's with the youngest 14 and I worry more about him riding his bicycle on the road than sitting in my van and getting a lift to school, there is a risk in everything you do in life, and sometimes the best you can sensibly do is eliminate the most likely.                           

that is an excellent point, a van has a set payload, so it can carry that ammount in the back of it, a builder/courier or whoever doesnt have to have their loads strapped down or bolted through the chassis.

I have never been worried about my system going anywhere, when you see the plates that have been put in underneath the van and the construction of the frame, it is built like a tank.

[Lee GLS]

Hi I'm looking to start up a window cleaning business. Had ionic's around today showing me their pro 6 system and have got brod x coming tomorrow to show me one of their systems.  Wondered what the general consensus of opinion was between ionic and brodex system. Also the guy from Ionic tells me that I only need to buy a 30 feet pole to start with. Should I pay a bit more and get the 40feet glider?

do you actually have any work yet? if not why are you considering spending thousands on a wfp system let along an ionics system. Why not invest in some ladders and trad equipment and see how you get on for a few months first?

[Matthew Bateman]

Ionics use scare tactics IMO to gain sales. It ALWAYS goes down the "we've had ours crash tested it must be safer if we've done that".

Fact is if you're system is fitted by a dealer (you take your life in your hands if you do it yourself with ratchet straps) their business is on the line if they supply you something that contravenes either the law or safety regulations.

I have a Pure Freedom system fitted in my van and thinks its the dogs danglies. Didnt cost me the ridiculous and plain stupid sum of money Ionics cough up. I do think it was a tad over the mark but not entirely off the radar.

Aquafactors (another van-mount supplier) are based 3 miles from us, their quote was equally ridiculous. They wanted £500 to fit a split charge relay !   

[Perfect Windows]

Depending on when you're planning to start, bear in mind that Gardiners are planning to restart work on their super zero systems in spring.  They are crash tested and will be a damned sight less than the price you've been quoted.  I can't see how Ionics justify the premium, but as long as people pay it, they'll charge it.

When people tell me they have load straps holding their tank back, bear this in mind.  When Gardiners first built what they thought was a well designed crash-proof system, it came straight through the bulkhead.  The video was horrific.  Now, that was their first go, based on good engineering advice and it still failed miserably so they completely redesigned it.  Consider the potential for the failure of a system build on the back of another window cleaner saying "straps will be fine".  You won't get a second chance to redesign it.

Finally it seems to me that the economics are simple.  If you're going to end up using the system for the next eight years on your van, the cost is pretty irrelevant.  If you start up and give up in three months, it'll hurt you for a long time.  Buying it as a cold start is ambitious, but if you have the drive to make your business succeed, it might work out.

I should stress that I'm in no way a fan of Ionics (for many reasons).

Vin

[Perfect Windows]

Aren't the Ionics systems only tested at max 30 miles an hour anyway? if your traveling in an Ionics fitted van over this speed nothings guaranteed anyway is it?

Yes and the car you drive in is tested at 40, so nothing's guaranteed above that either.

Vin

[Perfect Windows]

Finally it seems to me that the economics are simple.  If you're going to end up using the system for the next eight years on your van, the cost is pretty irrelevant.  If you start up and give up in three months, it'll hurt you for a long time.  Buying it as a cold start is ambitious, but if you have the drive to make your business succeed, it might work out.

Just reread this and it doesn't reflect my feelings properly, so I'll clarify.

I think you're taking a huge risk spending that much money before you have a customer.

Vin

[luther1]

I'm with Vin.
I have an Ionics system in one van and diy in the other and if i was to go again i would probably diy unless i had felt wealthy and would go for a Gardiners jobby. I am delivery only so the expense is less, however the Gardiners system is half the money of Ionics.

The Ionics systems are crash tested in a Transit,mine was fitted in a Trafic and now a Transporter so the crash test,imo,is worthless. Just for the record,my system in the Trafic was fitted by Ionics and was only bolted through the chassis at the front,the back two bolts, which are the most important ones,were through the floor.

I thought it had been a while since the crash test questions had surfaced!

[mick hay]

Finally it seems to me that the economics are simple.  If you're going to end up using the system for the next eight years on your van, the cost is pretty irrelevant.  If you start up and give up in three months, it'll hurt you for a long time.  Buying it as a cold start is ambitious, but if you have the drive to make your business succeed, it might work out.

Just reread this and it doesn't reflect my feelings properly, so I'll clarify.

I think you're taking a huge risk spending that much money before you have a customer.

Vin

Totally agree with Vin here.

When i started, it was an old escort van and 250ltr system. then worked damn hard knocking doors getting customers

I would 1st ask someone if you can go out with them, especially while we have this cold snap! Believe me, its no fun in the freezing cold, split skin on ya hands, some days earning no money (but you would still have to pay the finance on that ionics system), and dont forget, we are still in a recession!!

Dont want to put you off, its the best business move i ever done starting up, but its not for everyone, especially in the winters!!!

Im in Manchester and your welcome to come out with me 

[dazmond]

it might be ok for lee pryor to throw loads of money at ionics if he s earning 8 grand a month!!


most of us average established windies dont earn anywhere near that much a month....and as for the guy who asked the question in the first place do you have any customers??


dazmond

[dazmond]

mick i thought you built your round on leaflets?get some decent gloves then you dont get any split skin on hands!!

if he goes down the ionic route without a custy i can see him going the way of many others!(full system up on ebay within 6 months!!)with a big hole in his wallet!!

i agree with you mick


dazmond

[mick hay]

Hi ya Daz,

when i 1st started, i just come outa bankruptcy so was skint, door knocking was the only option, got my first few custies, then 1st months money put it all into leaflets.

Then just repeated the process!!..aiming to get 80k of leaflets out next year, big push next year, for all services, and maybe bigger van!!

Onwards and upwards!!!!

[SB Cleaning]

Sod ionics and their rip off prices

As said before go with the cleaning warehouse good systems at good prices nuff said

[LWC]

http://www.purefreedom.co.uk/pure-freedom-fully-fitted-water-fed-pole-systems-p-296.html

These are bang tidy

[Alex Allen]

Hi I'm looking to start up a window cleaning business. Had ionic's around today showing me their pro 6 system and have got brod x coming tomorrow to show me one of their systems.  Wondered what the general consensus of opinion was between ionic and brodex system. Also the guy from Ionic tells me that I only need to buy a 30 feet pole to start with. Should I pay a bit more and get the 40feet glider?

just starting buy a basic installed system from the likes of pure freedom and a decent 2nd hand van
both have got to last you4-6 years
in a few years if you have made a go of it
you and your accountant will have to decide when to go for  a new van and the big branded wfp systems
thats who there market is really for

good luck

[CLEANCARE WC]

Daz thats what lee pryor gets from just that one van but not all in his pocket as you know

[SimonMoore]

hi, i have a used ionic system and van for sale in the buy and sell used equipment section of the forum
the post is titled top of the range van and system for sale

feel free to contact me if your interested or would like a chat. simon@ultrapureclean.com

[Dave Willis]

There is a lot of salt on this forum mind