[bluez]

Willis,
Interesting post, thought provoking.

Competency therefore = Qualification, experience and knowledge

Based on the two legal precedents you have quoted this statement does not lead me to the same conclusion as you. Should it not read Competency therefore = experience and knowledge and training will help.

Qualification alone will not deliver competency, knowledge alone will not deliver competency only experience of the three can on its own give competence. Not saying it always will but it is the only one that can deliver it on its own.




    

[old timer]

Also what he was saying is probably correct as the working at height regs state avoid working at height if you don't need too, the gutter vac or similar are more than visible in this case

The Working at Height regs say if there is an alternative method which is safer then not to use ladders.

If you havent got a gutter-vac sometimes a ladder is the safest method.

I don't think it means if YOU have the equipment rather that the equipment is availiable.

Yes that is right

Where it also says plan for emergencies and rescue; i take it if you fall from a ladder and hurt yourself it can be classed as an emergency, so should we have a written plan for this as an emergency procedure?

[old timer]

Willis,
Interesting post, thought provoking.

Competency therefore = Qualification, experience and knowledge

Based on the two legal precedents you have quoted this statement does not lead me to the same conclusion as you. Should it not read Competency therefore = experience and knowledge and training will help.

Qualification alone will not deliver competency, knowledge alone will not deliver competency only experience of the three can on its own give competence. Not saying it always will but it is the only one that can deliver it on its own.




    

Please tell me your not being serious

the whole point is none of these three things alone mean you are competent it takes a mixture of all three to mean you are a competent person

Experiance & Knowledge & qualification = competent

[bluez]

probably n ot put very well old timer but the point I was trying to make was that I dont value the qualification aspect of the equation to the same extent as the experience.

[Gleaming windows]

Also what he was saying is probably correct as the working at height regs state avoid working at height if you don't need too, the gutter vac or similar are more than visible in this case

The Working at Height regs say if there is an alternative method which is safer then not to use ladders.

If you havent got a gutter-vac sometimes a ladder is the safest method.

I don't think it means if YOU have the equipment rather that the equipment is availiable.

In that case are you saying anyone who cleans a gutter out and accesses it by ladder is breaking the law as they could have hired a gutter-vac?

[Moderator David@stives]

Willis, why oh why do you have to produce such waffle? Is this how the NVQ is produced also?
That's pretty much how an NVQ was based in the print industry. 10% substance wrapped up in 80% waffle. A massive file of waste paper full of ridiculous words and long winded phrases. Why can't you just call a spade a spade?
I'm betting a window cleaning NVQ could be wrapped up in two hours in plain english
Madness :

Lets not be so hard on Willis, we dont want to scare him off.

He has come on here to give us the benefit of his wisdom, not to be attacked.

[old timer]

probably n ot put very well old timer but the point I was trying to make was that I dont value the qualification aspect of the equation to the same extent as the experience.

No I agree the experiance part is vital in the equation but the other two have a great importance too

You may be the most experianced shiner in the world but how do you know you have been doing it correctly/safely and to the law with out the qaulification part?

Not a dig just expressing my opinion

[Gleaming windows]

competent is to have both practical experience and qualification

Qualifications do not mean you are competent by any stretch of the imagination. They simply mean you have attended a course and are able to recount what you were taught. Having a degree in geology doesnt make you a competent geologist.

I would much prefer to judge someones competence by their experience rather than their level of qualification.

[ftp]

Willis, why oh why do you have to produce such waffle? Is this how the NVQ is produced also?
That's pretty much how an NVQ was based in the print industry. 10% substance wrapped up in 80% waffle. A massive file of waste paper full of ridiculous words and long winded phrases. Why can't you just call a spade a spade?
I'm betting a window cleaning NVQ could be wrapped up in two hours in plain english
Madness :

Lets not be so hard on Willis, we dont want to scare him off.

He has come on here to give us the benefit of his wisdom, not to be attacked.

sorry, wrong time of the month 

[george formby]

i had a bad fall on a ladder 2 weeks ago on a holiday village, it was on 3.5 meter ladder( i have 20 years experience on them) it was not extended and i had ladder mits bolted on and also some new feet on the bottoms. the ladders were stood on grass and i could not belive it when the ladder slipped right from underneath me.  my brother then came running over and was shocked to see what had happend. i then shouted are my feet pointing in the right direction, he replied yes, i said thats ok then. I was hurt bad and was sick all over with the shock guess what i did next?

got right back on that ladder the next day

[old timer]

Willis, why oh why do you have to produce such waffle? Is this how the NVQ is produced also?
That's pretty much how an NVQ was based in the print industry. 10% substance wrapped up in 80% waffle. A massive file of waste paper full of ridiculous words and long winded phrases. Why can't you just call a spade a spade?
I'm betting a window cleaning NVQ could be wrapped up in two hours in plain english
Madness :

Lets not be so hard on Willis, we dont want to scare him off.

He has come on here to give us the benefit of his wisdom, not to be attacked.

Couldn't agree more but you have to remember the forum has no filter for idiotism, so unfortunately we will get it

[Sunshine/Cleaning]

Also what he was saying is probably correct as the working at height regs state avoid working at height if you don't need too, the gutter vac or similar are more than visible in this case

The Working at Height regs say if there is an alternative method which is safer then not to use ladders.

If you havent got a gutter-vac sometimes a ladder is the safest method.

I don't think it means if YOU have the equipment rather that the equipment is availiable.

In that case are you saying anyone who cleans a gutter out and accesses it by ladder is breaking the law as they could have hired a gutter-vac?

It's not so much a matter of breaking the law as much as using the best equipment for the job. So yes, hiring a gutter vac is a better option than going up a ladder. Same as using WFP is generally a better option than using a ladder.

[Gleaming windows]

I was speaking to a regular member from this forum a couple or so weeks ago on the phone who owns a gutter-vac. He was telling me how after investing all that moneuy quite often its just easier to get the ladders off and get on with the job of gutter cleaning without all the aggro of setting the thing up 

[old timer]

i had a bad fall on a ladder 2 weeks ago on a holiday village, it was on 3.5 meter ladder( i have 20 years experience on them) it was not extended and i had ladder mits bolted on and also some new feet on the bottoms. the ladders were stood on grass and i could not belive it when the ladder slipped right from underneath me.  my brother then came running over and was shocked to see what had happend. i then shouted are my feet pointing in the right direction, he replied yes, i said thats ok then. I was hurt bad and was sick all over with the shock guess what i did next?

got right back on that ladder the next day

If your bro was there why didn't you have him footing the ladder for you, glad you are not too badly hurt but play with fire and don't protect yourself you will get burn't..... maybe carry some cream around from now on, if you get my drift

[old timer]

I was speaking to a regular member from this forum a couple or so weeks ago on the phone who owns a gutter-vac. He was telling me how after investing all that moneuy quite often its just easier to get the ladders off and get on with the job of gutter cleaning without all the aggro of setting the thing up 

Let's hope he doesn't fall off his ladder at some point and think if only i had used my gutter vac, it's as i said before i know what is worth more to me

[Gleaming windows]

I wonder if they have discussions on motoring forums about not using the roads?

[ftp]

You can't use a guttervac on every job. What do you do then - use a cherry picker on a residential property and charge them £400 'cos a ladder could be dangerous?

[ftp]

I wonder if they have discussions on motoring forums about not using the roads?

You can't drive anymore - there is a safer alternative - walking on the pavement.

[Ian Mason]

I wonder if they have discussions on motoring forums about not using the roads?

I know they certainly don`t have this type of discussion at councils, that house children in blocks of flats, with easy access to balcony`s.

[Gleaming windows]

I wonder if they have discussions on motoring forums about not using the roads?

You can't drive anymore - there is a safer alternative - walking on the pavement.

Exactly, theres ALWAYS a safer alternative.

Theres safer than walking, its called staying in.

Theres safer than staying in, its called not getting up.

Theres safer than not getting up, its called duvet diving.

Its about being realistic. I wonder if people get being incompetent confused with being unrealistic.