[Ian Lancaster]

I used to be a satellite engineer, and a couple of years ago I had to go on a ladder training course - with training how to get on & off ladder at the top.

One of the most useful tips I had was to drill a hole in the wall in line with where the ladder will be (ideally 1M up, not always possible.

Then you put an rawl plug & eye bolt into the wall.

After this, whenever you use the ladder in this location you feed a ratchet strap through a ladder rung, then throught the eye bolt, and back onto itself.

When you ratchet it up tight the ladder cannot slide sideways, or back - really steady.

OK - we had to use harnesses etc, but being sensible I would feel very safe getting on & off the ladder.

I now charge a £5 on-off fee for fitting the eyebolt, and an extra £1 per clean for the hassle.

CSS worksafe were the people that certificated my ladder use - and they run specific window cleaner access training courses.

Well i am sorry but if a wc came to me and said to clean your windows i will have to put a bolt in your wall and charge you for doing it...i think i might tell him not to worry (maybe not as polite as that though).
Imagine going round to 400 + customers and fixing eyebolts..... :

And, of course, you need to install an eyebolt for every position you use your ladder.  On a standard 3-bed semi that could be as many as 10

Somebody tell me this bloke is taking the P :

[jonnyald]

I used to be a satellite engineer, and a couple of years ago I had to go on a ladder training course - with training how to get on & off ladder at the top.

can you share with us,  what the proper way is to get on and off ?,at the top

[williamx]

Safely.

and before you say that every ladder uses know this because they don't.

[StanA]

I used to be a satellite engineer, and a couple of years ago I had to go on a ladder training course - with training how to get on & off ladder at the top.

One of the most useful tips I had was to drill a hole in the wall in line with where the ladder will be (ideally 1M up, not always possible.

Then you put an rawl plug & eye bolt into the wall.

After this, whenever you use the ladder in this location you feed a ratchet strap through a ladder rung, then throught the eye bolt, and back onto itself.

When you ratchet it up tight the ladder cannot slide sideways, or back - really steady.

OK - we had to use harnesses etc, but being sensible I would feel very safe getting on & off the ladder.

I now charge a £5 on-off fee for fitting the eyebolt, and an extra £1 per clean for the hassle.

CSS worksafe were the people that certificated my ladder use - and they run specific window cleaner access training courses.

Well i am sorry but if a wc came to me and said to clean your windows i will have to put a bolt in your wall and charge you for doing it...i think i might tell him not to worry (maybe not as polite as that though).
Imagine going round to 400 + customers and fixing eyebolts..... :

And, of course, you need to install an eyebolt for every position you use your ladder.  On a standard 3-bed semi that could be as many as 10

Somebody tell me this bloke is taking the P :

Ian.  You forgot to mention the course you have to go on to be allowed to use the drill for the eyebolts 

[ps outthere]

You also have to climb the ladder with your tools, then drill a hole in the wall . Is this contravening health and safety?

[lcwalker]

[so i got to secure a ladder just to climb on to a flat roof to do 1 window

You got to secure a ladder to clean a window on first floor, not just getting onto flat roofs. Thats the law and not just made up by supid people who work in an office.
As the HSE advert says "shattering lives". About 70 deaths a year from ladders. We used to be trad then found out you can have a complete WFP system including pole, backpack and filters etc for under £300. First started off at £12k for a system, now its within everyones price bracket.
Not risking my life for £300
idealrob

Please tell me where i can get a complete WFP system including pole, backpack and filters etc for under £300 thats about the limit i have to spend.

[Tom White]

I used to be a satellite engineer, and a couple of years ago I had to go on a ladder training course - with training how to get on & off ladder at the top.

can you share with us,  what the proper way is to get on and off ?,at the top

I think it goes like this (but I could be wrong):

Put at least two rungs of the ladder above the flat surface.  Ideally the ladder should not rest on a plastic gutter, and it should be stabilised at the bottom with something like a Rojak ladder stopper and tied off near the top; tie it off when you get to the top of the ladder; this is to prevent the ladder slipping left or right; the rojak helps prevent it from slipping backwards.

Then be careful!  Climbing on and off a ladder onto a flat roof is one of those 'danger points'.

However, I must be honest and don't use a rojak, nor do I tie them off, and sometimes I'll put them on plastic gutters.  I really ought to just miss these windows I can't do with a pole.  Maybe you should just give these windows a miss too?

Oh, and the most important rule with regards flat roofs - which hasn't been posted here - is not to fall off them; don't go stepping back to admire your nice shiny window you've just cleaned.

[williamx]

[so i got to secure a ladder just to climb on to a flat roof to do 1 window

You got to secure a ladder to clean a window on first floor, not just getting onto flat roofs. Thats the law and not just made up by supid people who work in an office.
As the HSE advert says "shattering lives". About 70 deaths a year from ladders. We used to be trad then found out you can have a complete WFP system including pole, backpack and filters etc for under £300. First started off at £12k for a system, now its within everyones price bracket.
Not risking my life for £300
idealrob

Please tell me where i can get a complete WFP system including pole, backpack and filters etc for under £300 thats about the limit i have to spend.

Try

http://www.windowcleaningwarehouse.co.uk/shop/

You will need the following

Pole & Brush Head £69.50
Backpack  £99.70
Di Tank  £79.50
Resin  £69.00
TDS Meter  £19.50

Total  £337.20
Vat  £59.01

Grand Total  £396.21

If you want to save even more money then you will need to shop around, but you can save on all of the above apart from the backpack.

[williamx]

You forgot somewhere to store the water at home.

Also barrels to transport the water in whilst in the van, unless you're only using one knapsack of water a day!

Does the 99 squid for the backpack include a charger?

R.O pipework for the DI unit.

Fittings etc for knapsack.

I don't store water at home and you don't need a water tank either, a friend of mine fill up his backpack at the customers house with his di unit.

There is a charger with the backpack.

You don't even need a van, at christmas I used a corsa with no problem at all, I even was able to fit my carpet cleaning machine in as well as the wfp equipment.

This is a very basic system that will get anyone up and running with wfp, as you earn, you can then upgrade to a more indepth system.

If you want to make excuses for someone not to go wfp then there are many, but these people will not be very sucessful in business, a sucessful business person looks at how to overcome problems rather than let the problem overcome them.

[martinsadie]

You also have to climb the ladder with your tools, then drill a hole in the wall . Is this contravening health and safety?

he charged the customer for scaffolding to do that

[The Jester of Wibbly]

how long does this thread stay at the top of the forum? seems like forever

[Moderator David@stives]

Until, we have exhausted it.

It was a topical issue, which was discussed at Windex, I will un stick it soon.

[idealrob]

http://www.hse.gov.uk/press/2009/coiem09.htm

Window cleaning fine by HSE

idealrob

[idealrob]

and this link

http://www.lrbconsulting.co.uk/news_article_name/cleanerfalls.aspx

idealrob