[Martin ccs]

just wondered whats the rules when it comes to working off flat roofs?

[idealrob]

And the ladder must be secured if working on a flat roof, thats how michael Mills got £3000 fine under WAHR 2005

idealrob

[daz1977]

And the ladder must be secured if working on a flat roof, thats how michael Mills got £3000 fine under WAHR 2005

idealrob

so i got to secure a ladder just to climb on to a flat roof to do 1 window

[woody1]

i go on flat roofs never secured the ladder, i can see windys doing that for one window not, stupid rules made up by some one sat in an office

[trevor perry]

the actual ruling is to access the roof the ladder must be secured and be at least 1 metre higher than the access point, you must work at least 2 metres away from edge of the roof and edge protection or barriers should be put in place alternatively their should be a safety line to attach a lanyard too which then attaches to a work harness you are wearing and the lanyard should be short enough to keep you 2 metre away from edge of roof.

[WILLIS]

All window cleaners should note there is no longer a 2m rule

Basically I don’t recommend accessing a flat roof from a ladder

If you cant clean it from inside the house or by using a water fed pole
 
Don’t clean it

The controls for you to clean this type of glass can be extensive
Suggest to the homeowner they get the window modified so it can be cleaned easily from inside the property 

You can get info the HSE website   

http://webcommunities.hse.gov.uk/inovem/inovem.ti/workheight/view?objectId=13267

I would also refer to Working at height regulations 2005

SCHEDULE 1
Regulation 6(4)(a)

REQUIREMENTS FOR EXISTING PLACES OF WORK AND MEANS OF ACCESS OR EGRESS AT HEIGHT


[idealrob]

[so i got to secure a ladder just to climb on to a flat roof to do 1 window

You got to secure a ladder to clean a window on first floor, not just getting onto flat roofs. Thats the law and not just made up by supid people who work in an office.
As the HSE advert says "shattering lives". About 70 deaths a year from ladders. We used to be trad then found out you can have a complete WFP system including pole, backpack and filters etc for under £300. First started off at £12k for a system, now its within everyones price bracket.
Not risking my life for £300
idealrob

[Moderator David@stives]

Good Post Willis

Hope to see you posting more of the same, we need people like you on this forum with your expertise.

[dazmond]

its not flat roofs i have a problem with.just get up there with a ladder(not secured!) .its the pitched roof variety that i dont like climbing up to clean the window above esp if theres skylights near the window to be cleaned!i still get up there though if i cant do a good enough job with an extension pole.hopefully when i go wfp ill be able stand back and do it from the ground.failing that climb ladder to low roof height with wfp in hand and clean from there!no probs!

[ftp]

I'm thinking of getting a lanyard and a harness and attaching it to the van. This way I'll never get near enough to the house to fall off anything. Maybe wear one of those new motorcycle suits too in case trip over a plant pot then the air bags will save me. Might even invest in a life jacket 'cos some of my custys have ponds.

[ftp]

On a more sensible note: has anyone devised a guage that could be fitted on the side of a ladder to give you the correct angle? Bit like a compass or a spirit level. I suppose it would have to be fitted near the top as the ladder height would never be the same.
I saw some painters working from ladders this week with their ladders at some really low angles around the property. No harnesses, stabilisers or footing of ladders for them 

[ftp]

http://www.hse.gov.uk/falls/ladders.htm

Seems to answer a lot of the questions on here. Loads of info and seems better laid out than the last time I found it. I think several of us are not even aware of some of the regulations.

[A & J Owen Window Cleaning]

will give that a good reading later mate

[woody1]

ideal rob

if you look it up you dont have to secure your ladders if you are only up there for short time

its funny how most people hate ladders never came off one in 6 years they are safe if used properly

[Jack Wallace]

I find it hard to understand that even after 5 years the working at height regulations are still a mystery to most window cleaners.
Even in this short thread there are contradictions.

I am suprised that there has not been a simplistic document drawn up by some of the large organisations that represent window cleaners, and made available to all.

I think most use common sense, and many have a rough idea of the reg's but how many of you actualy know what you should and shouldnt do to comply with the law?
I for one dont!!

[gewindows]

Basically I don’t recommend accessing a flat roof from a ladder

Why?

It sounds like the bizarre recommendations of someone sat behind a desk with no hands on experience who has been appointed to 'baby-sit' those who know better. Reminds me of the H&S documentary that was on the box about a year or so ago where the H&S guy was demonstrating how to climb a set of steps. He got to the top rung and bashed his bonce on the ceiling.

He knew exactly what he was doing obviously. Yet they are appointed to oversee us, they havent got a clue.

Flat roofs are accessed hundreds of thousands of times daily by window cleaners, painters, builders, flat-roofers with no accidents to report. Of course there are going to be accidents but there are also accidents on roads it doesnt stop you driving does it?

Accessing flat roofs is fine just dont be dumb in the manner that you go about it.

[ronnie paton]

matt the thing is he works closely with the H&S and if you were tohave a accidn or even worse your employees you would be found gulty by HSE.

[gewindows]

Guilty of what?

Refering back to the documentary I mentioned there was an example of a sole operative mechanic whos place of work didnt come to scratch so far as the boffins from the H&S were concerned, but they openly acknowledged on the box there was nothing they could do as he was a sole operative.


Sent to save us from ourselves arent they. I hope they know how to sit at their desks without suffering repetitive strain injury.

[Moderator David@stives]

Matt

What about staff.

I employ and it would be impossible to risk assess every £10.00 job where we need access to a flat roof, one mistake on my behalf i would be screwed.

We try to avoid ladders, where we can't my legal requirements are.

1, provide ladder training.
2/ WAH training
3/ Manual handling training
4/general H&S training
4 Inspect the ladders daily
5/ Do a risk assessment
6/Use ladder stability device, or tie off ladders
7/ Inspect flat roof for load bearing
8/ Cross fingers and hope nothing goes wrong.

All for an extra £1.00

[gewindows]

Dave I wouldnt trust those guys as far you could throw them, you seriously think it best to ask someone who has never been on a flat roof in their life how to get onto one? 

Next time you want your gas boiler replaced ask me Ill do you a deal.

Sensible?

I dont even know what CORGI stands for, not sure its even credible nowadays. (but I can still sort you out if you like)