[Ed Valentine]

Ian;

Not a problem, sir. I understand. Just wanted to clear up the history a bit.

The very best to you and All;
Good Fortune too;
Ed Valentine
cross-american corp.

[Ian Gourlay]

Well I got you both some more Gurrillia Marketing may the best Machine win

[Bob Allen]

Nick I have not received my dvd yet
Regards Bob

[David Towells]

Jim

Are you starting up or are you already trading? 

I too am considering a new machine, but need to bare in mind my limited experience when making my choice.  At the same time I don't want to be looking for a machine with better performance after 6 months!


Dave

[paul@ctcs]

David and Jim,

I had (still have as back up) a twin vacuum machine but found I needed more power and the ability to run long hoses.
 I opted for the Eclipse from solutions which is a great machine, the other machine to consider would be the Recoil, both machines very powerful but go about it in different way.
 
 I would suggest you either contact Nick and ask for a DVD, attend the show and take a look, or depending on your location I'd be more than happy to give you a demonstration.

Paul

[JM SELECT SERVICES]

HI paul ,
how does the eclipse stand up too,, to the ninja

[paul@ctcs]

Hi JM,

THe Eclipse is in another league, With 3 vacuum motors running in series it generates 249" of lift and the 1500psi rated pump is set to produce 500psi in my machine.
My eclipse makes my comanche, which on paper is a match for the Ninja feel like a childs toy.
 I cant praise the performance of my new machine enough it really is dogs danglies

Paul

[stevegunn]

HI paul ,
how does the eclipse stand up too,, to the ninja

I had a ninja which i replaced it with the eclipse and there is no comparison.

[Mike_Boxall]

Hi

This old chestnut again 

I'm somewhat surprised that the Prochem equipment has yet to be mentioned.

The Powermax is an excellent machine http://www.express-cleaning-supplies.co.uk/oos/carpetcleaningmachines/556054.html and is the most popular one we supply for professional carpet cleaners.

Unlike the other 2 models mentioned, Prochem equipment is available from a vast number of distributors not just 1 or 2 outlets.

This means that if the main supplier lets you down for whatever reason (and unfortunately, we all get things wrong occassionally) then there are plenty of others that you can get spares and backup from.

With so many distributors supplying Prochem equipment, suppliers like ourselves must sell both the machines and spares competitively. I would argue that you will get better value for money than when you buy more obscure equipment from a 'sole supplier'

I very much respect the opinions of the members that have made positive comments on the other machines and I have no doubt that they are also good machines worth considering.

Regards

Mike Boxall 

[paul@ctcs]

Mike,

I feel the prochem machines are let down by low psi solution pumps.
Saying that, my comanche has been a good servant and not once let me down, so I'm impressed with the prochems reliability,which is an important considerataion when buying a new machine.
 I would have to say machines like the Recoil and Eclipse are offering far better, near TM performance, so they are undoubtably the machines to go for if you can afford it, as with most things you get what you pay for and these new machines cost a little more.

Horses for courses!!

Paul

[stevegunn]

Mike

How many Rolls royce,aston martin & ferrari dealers are there does that make them less desirable than a Ford ???As for you will get better value for money than when you buy more obscure equipment from a 'sole supplier' I  disagree you get a better service from a sole supplier as they try to keep their customers happy whereas these big companies just don't care once they have taken your money. :

[Mike_Boxall]

Hi Steve

I like car analagies! However, Rolls Royce, Aston Martin and Ferrari have been around and in use over here for far longer than the machines we're talking about and there are plenty of dealers to get them from!

My point is only that equipment needs to be used for a reasonable amount of time before you can truly compare it with something that's been around for some time.

Have a look at the answers from similar questions 12 months ago and you'll see that it was another machine that was all the rage then which is rarely mentioned now. The only drawback mentioned at the time was that it was heavier than most. It's not until you've used a heavier machine day in and day out, got it in and out of an estate car 3 times a day and lugged it up and down 3 flights of stairs of Georgian town houses for 12 months that you realise what a difference weight can make.

Plus, consider machines which people have said are 'a bit more noisy than most'. Most people who ask for advice on machines are entirely new to the industry. If you've never cleaned carpets for a 4 - 8 hours a day and gone home with ringing in your ears, it's easy to overlook how important the noise levels in these machines are.

I'm also sure all suppliers are equally enthusiastic about the level of service they offer. However, when you're told 'send the machine back to us and we'll fix it' if you're 250 miles away what do you do? You can't just take it to the post office and send it recorded delivery! It'll cost £100+ to get it palletised and sent and returned on a carrier and you'll be without it for best part of a week. (ok, yes, maybe you can take it personally and hope they'll fix it while you wait or they can send you the parts and you can fix it yourself) but wouldn't you want an engineer to come to you, with the parts and do it there and then!

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that these are issues with these particular machine because, frankly, I don't know. I also accept that there is a place in the market for all of them but people need to make an informed decision taking into account all the factors involved.

And let's be honest here. If you want truckmount performance you have to buy a truckmount! I understand Prochem will be bringing one to the next day out and I will gladly argue the point while you use it 


Regards

Mike

 

[stevegunn]

Mike

"I'm also sure all suppliers are equally enthusiastic about the level of service they offer. However, when you're told 'send the machine back to us and we'll fix it' if you're 250 miles away what do you do? You can't just take it to the post office and send it recorded delivery! It'll cost £100+ to get it palletised and sent and returned on a carrier and you'll be without it for best part of a week. (ok, yes, maybe you can take it personally and hope they'll fix it while you wait or they can send you the parts and you can fix it yourself) but wouldn't you want an engineer to come to you, with the parts and do it there and then"

You will find with the eclipse it has a unique slide out tray so there is no need to send the machine back just the tray. As the supplier stocks a wide range of spares you could have another tray with you within 24hrs no need to send the machine back 

[Ed Valentine]

Gentlemen;

I would like to comment on Mikes view point that having many dealers is more important than having a few (or something along those lines)

My comments are in no way a direct hit on Mike Boxwell because he seems like a hard working and respected family man. And, I understand that he represents prochem machines which are also highly regarded in the industry, and rightly so.

After 28 years in the manufacturing business I believe that I am qualified in having enough experience with "sales people" (dealers) to say that we have learned a great lesson on product distribution over those years. And, that lesson was that we would much rather have one or two terrific "Pure Breds" (Dealers) then a bunch of "has beens" in the barn.

I have found through personal experience, that in many cases, the Professional carpet Cleaner knows more about products ,in many cases, then does the standard dealer marketing mops, brooms and pails,...and oh, I forgot, carpet cleaninmg equipment.

Our qualitifications is simple; but rather usual. A Dealer MUST know our product hands down, backwards and forwards. He must service the customer to no end. He must give him the right answers---and not any BS (Ooops!). In other words, he must be dedicated and have one terrific reputation or we are not interested period.  (I might add here that we are very blessed and fortunate to have one of The Finest Dealers in the world right in your back yard too)

However, regardless, we service customers all over the world and are asked questions from all. We are only an e-mail or phone call away. And, we only give the right answers--all the time. That is the way it should be.

Now, as for suggesting that "other equipment hype" faded--Mike, if you are inferring our company (Please forgive me if I am wrong here??); and etc.....  I will only say this at this time:

(Please read very, very carefully)

NO COMMENT. STAY TUNED. This is a "new" and exciting year.

The very best to you, Mike, and your efforts and dedication to this Industry. I truly wish you and all the hard working small businesses well.

Good Fortune to;
Ed Valentine
cross-american corp.

[Mike_Boxall]

You will find with the eclipse it has a unique slide out tray so there is no need to send the machine back just the tray. As the supplier stocks a wide range of spares you could have another tray with you within 24hrs no need to send the machine back 

I'm sorry Steve but I feel quite strongly about this.

Encouraging customers to work on electrical equipment like this is wrong! It's one thing trying to guide them through an airlock, or a blockage or other mechanical problem over the phone but quite another to encourage them to play about inside a machine like this!

Clearly you've been using machines like this for some time and are entirely confident about repairing them and maybe, for that reason alone, this is the ideal machine for you. Unfortunately, 'typical' users aren't like that and if it's something that's expected of them they they need to know about it before they commit themselves.

When your Rolls Royce starts feeling a bit sluggish I bet your dealer doesn't stick a set of plugs in the post!

Ed - I don't question the integrity of your equipment or that of your dealer and I'm sure you'd agree that Paul hit the nail on the head when he said there were 'Horses for Courses'

Regards

Mike

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys,

The reality for me both in London 82 - 86 and Essex 89-present has been that if I want my machine fixed I have to do it myself.

When I have taken to dealers,  the service received has been pathetic.

Maybe we are just unlucky in this part but if I knew a good dealer nearby I would use them and by nearby  , I mean within 30 miles.

Cheers,

dOUG

[paul@ctcs]

Mike,

A monkey could remove the tray from an eclipse!
There is nothing more than a coulple of plugs to disconnect and a few quick release solution connections.
No more complex than removing a plug from a wall socket, I'm sure even the least mechanicaly minded CC could do it with his eyes shut.

Paul

[Lee_Pettengell]

Doug

     There are plenty of full service distributors in the Essex area!

[jmj]

IMO how can you recomend a machine when its only new out of the box.Surely a good investment in a machine would be one tried an tested over many years, how often they breakdown, back up service and on going performance.This can only come with time and recommendations from many professional carpet ceaners as opposed to the two who currently own them.

This in noway sugguest nick can't provide this service, but two machines only a month or so old can't have too much wrong yet.Steve you rightly condemmend the service you received from ashbys, with regards to your ninja, but until your machine goes wrong and it will, how do you know the service you receive will be any better?

I for one have used a prochem machine for many years with little or no problems, parts are easy to source and readily available.Its somewhat a little old now but its one of two back up machines i have.My cfr which is my machine of choice now, has needed parts at different times and i can honestly say that, without exception the service from Amtech has been first class.Very short downtime as deliveries have always been nextday.Both of these manufacturers service,peformance and reliability have been recommended by many respected professionals over the years.

joe

[paul@ctcs]

JMJ,

The Eclipse machines are very well proven In the US, the American CC's I spoke to prior to my purchase could only praise there machines.
Regarding the service provided by solutions, this is 2nd to none (and I used to run a Prochem!!) Every thing next day, which I'm sure will be the same as and when parts are needed, which I believe a number of components are British built including vacuum motors


Paul