[windowwashers]

It does say you can use a ladder in the WAHR! read it and your find out

Does anyone have a link, I am interested to find out now just what it DOES say.

www.hse.gov.uk/falls/downloads/1and2.pdf

[TennetClean]

Cheers window washers.  that looks like a powerpoint presentation though.

Is there anywhere you can actually see the laws in black and white?  I'm trying to google it but I'm not sure what I'm even looking for.

[xxmattyxx]

Cheers window washers.  that looks like a powerpoint presentation though.

Is there anywhere you can actually see the laws in black and white?  I'm trying to google it but I'm not sure what I'm even looking for.

www.hse.gov.uk/press/2005/e05110.htm

These Regulations do not ban ladders but say they should be used only when all other safer alternatives for work at height have been ruled out. A risk assessment must show that the task is low risk and of short duration, or that there are site features that mean other equipment is not appropriate. If so, then ladders can be used.”

[TennetClean]

thats a press release.  where is the actual law?  maybe thats available online

[xxmattyxx]

There isnt a law because its not against the law.

  

Here you are, keep digging.

[TennetClean]

Somewhere there will be a law written down on exactly what you are allowed to do and what you arent.  That press release called it WAHR, thats what i want to see

[xxmattyxx]

Doh!! a regulation isnt a law

[TennetClean]

Doh!! a regulation isnt a law

Yes it is matey.

[xxmattyxx]

well, you go and find it then, it'll be in here somewhere if its law


www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/pahansard.htm

[simon knight]

Every day I see loads of vans and cars with ladders on their roofs. They're not all window cleaners. They're TV aerial fitters, roofers, painters etc.  and all of their jobs could be done without the use of ladders....cherrypicker, scaffolding etc?

So of course there's always an alternative to ladders.

But it's not practical and far too costly.

TennetClean....are all these people breaking the law?

Talk sense man

[TennetClean]

Cheers, it was in there.  I typed in WAHR to the box and hey presto.  The work at height regulations 2005 it is called.  I knew I would be proved right again.

www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2005/20050735.htm

Now I'm gonna read it, and if I find what I'm looking for then next week i'll be mounting my "your window cleaner is illegal" campaign all over the city.

TennetClean....are all these people breaking the law?

I'll tell you in a minute, give me a chance to read it.  Boy do i hope i'm right, i'm gonna report ALL the window cleaner ladder monkeys I see.  Happy days.

[xxmattyxx]

Here we are, the law, states the following, it DOES NOT say ladders CANNOT be used, but clarifies HOW to use them.

www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2005/20050735.htm

SCHEDULE 6
Regulation 8(e)


REQUIREMENTS FOR LADDERS


     1. Every employer shall ensure that a ladder is used for work at height only if a risk assessment under regulation 3 of the Management Regulations has demonstrated that the use of more suitable work equipment is not justified because of the low risk and -

      (a) the short duration of use; or

      (b) existing features on site which he cannot alter.

     2. Any surface upon which a ladder rests shall be stable, firm, of sufficient strength and of suitable composition safely to support the ladder so that its rungs or steps remain horizontal, and any loading intended to be placed on it.

     3. A ladder shall be so positioned as to ensure its stability during use.

     4. A suspended ladder shall be attached in a secure manner and so that, with the exception of a flexible ladder, it cannot be displaced and swinging is prevented.

     5. A portable ladder shall be prevented from slipping during use by -

      (a) securing the stiles at or near their upper or lower ends;

      (b) an effective anti-slip or other effective stability device; or

      (c) any other arrangement of equivalent effectiveness.

     6. A ladder used for access shall be long enough to protrude sufficiently above the place of landing to which it provides access, unless other measures have been taken to ensure a firm handhold.

     7. No interlocking or extension ladder shall be used unless its sections are prevented from moving relative to each other while in use.

     8. A mobile ladder shall be prevented from moving before it is stepped on.

     9. Where a ladder or run of ladders rises a vertical distance of 9 metres or more above its base, there shall, where reasonably practicable, be provided at suitable intervals sufficient safe landing areas or rest platforms.

     10. Every ladder shall be used in such a way that -

      (a) a secure handhold and secure support are always available to the user; and

      (b) the user can maintain a safe handhold when carrying a load unless, in the case of a step ladder, the maintenance of a handhold is not practicable when a load is carried, and a risk assessment under regulation 3 of the Management Regulations has demonstrated that the use of a stepladder is justified because of -

            (i) the low risk; and

            (ii) the short duration of use.

[TennetClean]

Its not my fault if they are breaking the law matey.  Tut tut shame on them, have they no honour?

Heh heh, boy do you NOT want to be a ladder man near me soon.  Now hush let me read the thing so I can plan my militancy.

I'm not joking either you know!

[simon knight]

Cheers, it was in there.  I typed in WAHR to the box and hey presto.  The work at height regulations 2005 it is called.  I knew I would be proved right again.

www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2005/20050735.htm

Now I'm gonna read it, and if I find what I'm looking for then next week i'll be mounting my "your window cleaner is illegal" campaign all over the city.

TennetClean....are all these people breaking the law?

I'll tell you in a minute, give me a chance to read it.  Boy do i hope i'm right, i'm gonna report ALL the window cleaner ladder monkeys I see.  Happy days.

tw@t springs to mind 

Out of interest why do you hope you're right and why do you want to report "ALL the window cleaner ladder monkeys I see"

I mean what's it to you if people want to use ladders rather than wfp?

[TennetClean]

Out of interest why do you hope you're right and why do you want to report "ALL the window cleaner ladder monkeys I see" Huh

I mean what's it to you if people want to use ladders rather than wfp?

Oh its simply my civic duty as a responsible citizen to report law breakers. Heh heh. 

I'm still reading, this is one meaty doc, lol I'm worried i may fall asleep before i find what i'm looking for...

[simon knight]

Out of interest why do you hope you're right and why do you want to report "ALL the window cleaner ladder monkeys I see" Huh

I mean what's it to you if people want to use ladders rather than wfp?

Oh its simply my civic duty as a responsible citizen to report law breakers. Heh heh. 

I'm still reading, this is one meaty doc, lol I'm worried i may fall asleep before i find what i'm looking for...

I can help you here Mr Civic man...save your time...there simply ain't no law banning ladders.

Just to prove my point: Do you think B & Q (and 100s of other retailers) would be allowed to sell an item that cannot be used legally in UK law?

[elite mike]

Out of interest why do you hope you're right and why do you want to report "ALL the window cleaner ladder monkeys I see" Huh

I mean what's it to you if people want to use ladders rather than wfp?

Oh its simply my civic duty as a responsible citizen to report law breakers. Heh heh. 

I'm still reading, this is one meaty doc, lol I'm worried i may fall asleep before i find what i'm looking for...

why dont you give up window cleaning ,and become a constable    

and catch some real law breakers

[TennetClean]

Right right right. LOL Boy I think I have got them.

"(2) Every employer shall ensure that work is not carried out at height where it is reasonably practicable to carry out the work safely otherwise than at height."

ANd before you say 'i'm not an employer blah blah'

"(3) The requirements imposed by these Regulations on an employer shall also apply to -
    (a) a self-employed person"


And as if that were not enough, as someone already pointed out, even if you are a ladder monkey you have to have someone foot it or use a ladder clamp, and nobody does that so thats 2 counts of GUILTY m'lord.

Oh wow I had no idea that the law was on the side of WFP people so much.  No wonder people say that ladders are illegal for window cleaning. LOL

I'm gonna volunteer to show any H&S officer just how "reasonable" it is to use a WFP lol.  This is gonna be fun.

I'm also gonna compose a standard letter and everytime I see a ladder monkey window cleaner I'm gonna snap them with my camera phone and send the pic with the letter, and I'll make sure the van is in the pic too.

If you live ANYWHERE near coventry and you are a ladder window cleaner, my advice is, leave town I AM COMING TO FIND YOU.

Now just have to find out who to send it to.

[simon knight]

Are you on something?

Nowhere in what you've just quoted does it say "Ladders cannot be used"

Please read what you've just written.

"....where it is reasonably practicable to carry out work safely otherwise than at height."

"....reasonably practicable...." means if you can avoid ladders then do so" (common sense).

This is a Saturday afternoon wind-up...yes?

[TennetClean]

I'm not on something,

It doesnt say ladders cannot be used, but it does say they cant be used if theres an alternative.

"....where it is reasonably practicable to carry out work safely otherwise than at height."

waterfed pole is a reasonably practical alternative is it not?

Otherwise I (and hundreds like me) wouldnt be able to use it.  Therefore if you are using ladders when you could have used WFP, you are a law breaker. And I will be a concerned citizen and report anybody I see.

And no this is not a wind up, I am not joking, I WILL report people.  Something tells me there is going to be a sudden shortage of window cleaners here, LOL