[Ian Gourlay]

If I were to start out tomorrow in this industry & on day 1 went on a 2 day NCCA course, then sat a little exam & qualified as a member, I could hardly regard myself as an expert in carpet cleaning. On day 4 with business booming I have to employ 4 staff to deal with work. Wouldn't it be in my own interest to train these employees up to the standard that the NCCA course had trained me to.  Why would I want to send them to the NCCA?

I can understand why the NCCA bought in the one to one rule.

But if I owned a sizeable cleaning company I would want my own in House Training Scheme

There is pleanty of theriotical training programmes available on line,

The NCCA shouldthen monitor this training through their regional committes. I presume they have regional branches  NVQs are administered this way..

Training is a big earner for NCCA that is  the main reason why you have to do their in house course

[Ken Wainwright]

The One To One rule rule for NCCA Membership dictates that the business owner or a suitable senior person attends the Association's, or IICRC, training courses.

The employed technicians should have attended either the same courses or any other recognised industry training course eg Prochem, Chemspec etc. etc. and have proof of attendance.

Appreciating that some companies will have their own in-house training, this has been taken on board too. Any technician in this scenario will be required to sit what has been called a Knowledge Paper. The naming was quite deliberate as research has revealed that some technicians, for whatever reason, are not very good at written english. The title Exam or Test Paper could therefore be a little intimidating. Assictance with reading and writting the paper is permitted. This does happen too on the NCCA's more formal course.

The Association now has a system whereby all technicians have some form of training, understanding and knowledge.

I'm now bordering on the confidentiality issue as a past Director. The criteria for employed technicians will change in the future.   It was felt that to impose a similar training criteria the same for principals and employed technicians was, at present, unworkable.

As for policing, there have already been examples dealt with. By necessity, policing requires a degree of trust, and members and others participation. So, if you suspect that any company is not abiding by the One to One rule, all you need to do is contact the NCCA Office who will check the membership records.

Safe and happy cleaning
Ken

[Ian Gourlay]

Ken

On the tec side I think that is fair  enough

I would still like to se reconition of training given by Your associate members .

as often the training is over a longer period than NCCA training .

As Joe said the aim is that members have a minimum standard I think all traing courses give you that.

But Hay its not going to change

[Ken Wainwright]

Ian

Any organisation providing genric, as opposed to branded, training will be considered for suitability for NCCA Membership qualification.

Steps have been made in the branded direction  though with, as I stated above, accepting branded training courses as being suitable for a technicians within the One To One Rule.

The PAS 86 could well help in this area too.

The branding issue is a major concern though. At present, ALL NCCA Associates are welcomed to display there wares at NCCA  training courses, and several do. Their equipment is often used to demonstrate procedures eg using A WAND with A RINSE/EXTRACTION machine. It is not demonstrated as a Glidemaster wand, for example, with a Prochem Steampro or whatever machine is available.

Safe and happy cleaning
Ken

[Karl Wildey]

Always made more back from referrals, contracts with national companies etc than the membership costs, So well happy to pay £200 and get back over 500 each and everry year, plus the stuff ncca offers, but then I have been lucky cos not member ncca guys in Norfolk 

[Ian Gourlay]

Karl

In this part of Norfolk last time I looked there was about 7.

[richie]

By reading not only this thread but many on all forums over the years,  it is clear to see that the majority of members & ex members are not happy with the way things ever have been at the NCCA. 
I can see what some have said regarding becoming a member.  Its like this in real terms as far as i can see.....(eg)...go to the NCCA.....sit an exam.....you pass the exam.....you are now a qulified Carpet Cleaner.  To become a REAL PROFESSIONAL you DO NOT have to sit an exam.  Its all about going into the field, do hands on work,  listen to respected Carpet Cleaners,  have the right equipments & chemicals for each & every job you do,  learn from the mistakes of others.....the list goes on however i have said (so to have many others) that its as if you can have no real hands on experience but sit the NCCA exam & they class you as a professional.
I would sooner tell ANY customer that i have 15 years of experience using some of the best equipment / chemicals available and so on rather than tell them im NCCA approved so that means im a pro even though ive only been in the trade 1 week.  Ok, i may have gone over the top on this eg but you surely get the general idea!

Many RESPECTED carpet cleaners have left the NCCA over the years, Shaun Ashmore is one of them.  To have someone of his experience, ability, professionalism and success to leave the NCCA surely makes one wonder what is the point in been a member.

Richie.
Richie.

[mark shannon]

Always made more back from referrals, contracts with national companies etc than the membership costs, So well happy to pay £200 and get back over 500 each and everry year, plus the stuff ncca offers, but then I have been lucky cos not member ncca guys in Norfolk 

Ditto and there are a few Ncca members in my area.

[Mike Roper]

I dont think anyone is saying sit an exam ,pass it and your a professional carpet cleaner. But you have got to start somewhere and surely thats a start , youve got a bit  of theory .
Point in question a collegue of mine is a window cleaner who now wants to branch into carpets.He has done the ncca course and passed the exam but has never touched a carpet , hasnt even got any equipment. I have offered to mentor him for a while when he gets going to build up confidence and try to put the theory into practice in the real world.
This must be a wiser way to do it rather than just buy a machine and jump in.
I think the problem arises when someone who has been in the business for a number of years ways up the pros & cons .why should they have to take courses etc maybe a bit of pride . Perhaps they might learn something but they will definately have something to give and surely that in itself is a good thing.
Mike

[Joe H]

I agree with what Mike has just said.

NCCA lists
"The NCCA was formed ... in order to
1) Establish minimum, but professional standards within the carpet and upholstery cleaning industry."
as one of its objectives - notice it doesnt say that once you pass the exam you are a fully competent carpet cleaner - like some on here seem to make out it is saying.

When I was on the course approx half had no experiance and some of those had no machine - so what a responsible attitude for them to take.
Of the other hals - various years of experiance from 2 all the way to 20+ years ... and if I remember rightly that person was there so he could become a member again - takes a bit of humility to do that and say so in a class of 24.

I am sure NCCA could be organised differently and have other aims - but I reckon if NCCA changed tomorrow and kept the annual fee to £200 plus vat, there would still be some on here that wouldnt join, even tho they are voicing there opinion now.

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Opinion is what Forums thrive on as long as it's done in the right manner.

I think you'll find that there isn't anyone knocking 3 bells out of the NCCA (I can remember a thread like that a few years ago) but looking after present members is just like looking after present customers you do have to show them that you are doing 'something' for their money.

Shaun

[Karl Wildey]

why do people think the ncca is just about doing training and then you become a great cc. they is more to offer.

and loads of people have left, shaun being one, and the other loads.

You will never please all the people all the time.

[stevegunn]

Another example of the NCCA short comings received newslink today to find out we have a new president Who votes,who decides, same as Nick Johnston a director  a lot of jobs for the boys or ladies as our new president is a lady.

[Ken Wainwright]

Most members will have read about our new President last month Steve. Did you not receive your March issue?

As for who elects the President, the nomination comes from the Board of Directors and voted for at AGM by the membership.

New directors come, naturally, from the existing members. Any member who shares our enthusiasm for both the Association and our industry can become involved. So Steve, if you would like to be considered for the board, why don't you ring the NCCA office and ask if there's anything you could volunteer for. What about organising a workshop in your area? Or a factory visit? Show that you have something to offer the Association, get involved. Do you have a skill or training that is of value?

Initially, newbies to the board will be Co Opted Directors. Once they, and the rest of the Board, have found that they can work well together, they will be offerd a position when one becomes available. That's what happened for me. Likewise Nick Johnston who is now Financial Director (he's from a banking background). The same sort of progress will almost certainly be the case too for new Co Opted Director Bob Jennings.

So Steve your reference to "...a lot of jobs for the boys or ladies..." is certainly true. You have to prove yourself as a valued and trusted Board Member and willing to take on the role of President in order to be nominated. As far as I am aware, a President, or other Board position, will NEVER be offered directly to a member. The route is 1) Member, 2) Co Opted Director, 3) Board Member 4) President.   I will repeat. All Presidents (and Board Members) are voted in by the membership at AGM.

Safe and happy cleaning
Ken

[Neil Grainger]

But Ken in a lot other associations the members decide who the nominies are that going to be elected to the board.

Whats members are going to vote for or against a person when their has only been 1 person put up for that position. How many of the boards nomonies have not been elected, Jobs for the Boys and Girls I think.

I know of one chap near me who is on your board and he is not the most helpful of directors to say the least. Choc teapot comes to mind.

[Ken Wainwright]

Neil

If any member wants to change the way that any board member or the President is elected, all they have to do is propose a motion at AGM.

The Board are obliged to carry out any motion voted for.

Safe and happy cleaning
Ken

[stevegunn]

But Ken in a lot other associations the members decide who the nominies are that going to be elected to the board.

Whats members are going to vote for or against a person when their has only been 1 person put up for that position. How many of the boards nomonies have not been elected, Jobs for the Boys and Girls I think.

I know of one chap near me who is on your board and he is not the most helpful of directors to say the least. Choc teapot comes to mind.

Nail on the head.Even the fsb send out ballot papers for the members to vote even if you don't know them.The agm's are not nornally well attended last one I was at more board members than members attended.

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys

Ken

"Initially, newbies to the board will be Co Opted Directors. Once they, and the rest of the Board, have found that they can work well together, they will be offerd a position when one becomes available. That's what happened for me. Likewise Nick Johnston who is now Financial Director (he's from a banking background). The same sort of progress will almost certainly be the case too for new Co Opted Director Bob Jennings'

Are you saying that to join the board you have to be invited by current board members ?

Surely a trade Organisation should have directors elected by the members.

Cheers

Doug

[Neil Grainger]

Can of worms

[Susan Dean (1stclean)]

i am saying northing due to