Interested In Advertising? | Contact Us Here
Warning!

 

Welcome to Clean It Up; the UK`s largest cleaning forum with over 34,000 members

 

Please login or register to post and reply to topics.      

 

Forgot your password? Click here

stevegunn

NCCA Renewal
« on: April 03, 2008, 08:19:58 pm »
Got my renewal through on Tuesday and seriously thinking of pulling the plug as all this for the use of a logo that the general public are not really aware of.Membership benefits are are not great either use of logo? Technical advice available widely on the forums? Sponsored schemes workwear,insurance,web design and legal helpline all available cheaper elsewhere.The only benefit of any significance is the corporate ad in the yellow pages.

My FSB membership is only £130 and there seem to be more benefits to that than the ncca.

Can anyone convince me otherwise ???

mark shannon

  • Posts: 961
Re: NCCA Renewal
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2008, 08:45:24 pm »
Works in my area Steve, make a few hundred quid a year, nothing exceptional but more than covers membership. I use their leaflet in my sales pitch and it impresses some people.

I would stick with it as it is our CC cleaning assoc and i feel i should support it despite the shortcomings you point out.

Mark

Kev Loomes

  • Posts: 1353
Re: NCCA Renewal
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2008, 08:51:24 pm »
I'm getting a bit fed up myself Steve. Ever since I have been a member I have just about broken even on NCCA enquiries, although this year has been better. But to be honest thats probably it for the year as usual. I will stay a member for now though and see how it goes - you never know :-\

Dont even get me started on the IICRC! If they dont pull their finger out pronto I'm off :o

I just wish it could all be promoted better - especially with manufacturers and retailers. This would put into the public's mind who they are and what they stand for. We would all benefit hugely from this and get more business in return ;D.  Oh well we can all dream...


Kev

Ken Wainwright

  • Posts: 2107
Re: NCCA Renewal
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2008, 08:55:55 pm »
In general terms Steve.

Consumer groups are always preaching to the consumer to buy services, and sometimes products, from companies that are members of recognised trade organisations.

As for the benefits of discounts for members, you firstly need the product to want to buy it, so yes, these benefits are not always of great value but some, myself included, have used them to good effect. And no matter what the goods or service, you will always be able to buy cheaper somewhere.

Some of the Associate Members will have special offers exclusive to NCCA Members.  As an example, I think Ashby's had an exclusive 10% discount sometime last year.
 
If you want a voice in our industry in places where it will be best heard, then, unless you are a campaigner/lobbyist yourself, then the NCCA is that voice.  

Although the Association is not a sales and marketing organisation, especially since the advent of the internet and the Find a Carpet Cleaner page on the Associations website, many, many members find that they receive more enquiries and subsequent work from just this one source to more than pay for their fees.  Just this week I had 1 job from B'ham Social Services that has more than paid for two years membership fees. Members I have spoken to who have their own website linked to the NCCA's report more enquiries than me (I get about 1 per month from the website plus the occasional via telephone). And as for the Corporate Advert in Yellow Pages,  two directories for £118 is good value, as Steve has already said.

Virtually every trade association in the land is not known of by most consumers. But if you use your membership to best advantage, it's a great tool to help sell your professionalism and command a premium price for your premium service. Every cold quote I do I give an NCCA flyer.

I have always considered my NCCA Membership as being beneficial to my business. The fact that it also generates quality leads for me is a BIG bonus.

I have also heard of a few  members who claim they've never had an enquiry via NCCA sources. When asked if they "tracked" their enquiries, a couple said no :-X

The NCCA is not to everyones liking, so It's true when they say that you can't please all the people all of the time.

Safe and happy cleaning :)
Ken
Veni, vidi vici, Vaxi
I came, I saw, I conquered, I cleaned up!

Shaun_Ashmore

  • Posts: 11382
Re: NCCA Renewal
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2008, 09:02:10 pm »
I was the same as you Steve, another £200+ for what amounts to 12 magazine subscriptions.

The NCCA say that YOU have to promote yourself as a member but I think that if you are going to do that you can quite easily promote yourself as a specialist with years of experience just change the words to suit.

I would have thought by now that the NCCA would be listening to what their members want, I know that advertising to the general public is expensive but advertising via dirct mail to the suppliers and manufacturers selling the benefits of using a member would be better IMO.

I thought about rejoining but I'm not too sure now, I don't think it's going anywhere and that is what I stated 5 years ago when I chucked out so I've saved a grand.

Shaun

Neil Grainger

  • Posts: 1273
Re: NCCA Renewal
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2008, 09:24:50 pm »
Ken,

Can i ask why it is always you coming on and defending the NCCA, Non of the other directors come on here and explain these thing with the same passion as you do.

This being the leeding forum warrants them to take notice and listen to what the CC's are saying. Prehaps at your next NCCA meeting non members should be allowed in to starting expressing their opinon and try to get things to change, or call an extraordinary meeting and invite people to have a open view on where the NCCA should be going.

Something needs to be done because you are getting longstand members and experienced CC's that just think its an Old boys club going nowhere.

ollie

  • Posts: 378
Re: NCCA Renewal
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2008, 09:37:23 pm »
I do pretty well from being a member, aside from people finding me on the NCCA site which I have to be honest isnt many, i get quite a few jobs from customers who have Brintons carpets, they ring Brintons and ask about cleaning and they tell them to use an NCCA member.  Also every call I get I explain about the NCCA and tell them to check out my credentials on the NCCA site, on many occasions I have been told ive been quoted agaisnt by other companies but they have chosen me because im a member. It doesnt make me millions of quid  :(   but profits profit!
ollie

David_Annable

  • Posts: 689
Re: NCCA Renewal
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2008, 10:16:44 pm »
Hi

I think to do well from the NCCA membership you have to push your membership to customers.

Generally customers are ignorant of NCCA, IICRC, Woolsafe etc.

Dave
NCCA, Woolsafe, IICRC Leather Cleaning Technician

Ken Wainwright

  • Posts: 2107
Re: NCCA Renewal
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2008, 10:19:02 pm »
Neil

As you have already gathered, I am a passionate believer in what the NCCA stands for.

I am no longer a Director of the NCCA but, as previously, I am, like some others, an "active" member.

Most of the Directors, like nearly all of our industry's manufacturers and suppliers, have decided not to contribute to internet forums. Both myself and Derek Bolton, and more recently Nick Johnston, whilst we broadly agree with this action, also believe that some presence is beneficial. We all realise though, that if you stand there as a figure head, you are just waiting to be shot down. Perhaps one reason why the barrage of non-believers will appear to "win" membership debates purely by force of numbers.  

One of the major problems is that we (the Association) can have significant projects that can involve 2, 3 or more years work and effort. It would be improper to discuss these things publicly before completion, sometimes they can be delayed for a miriad of reasons and even be cancelled, plus there can be commercial confidentiallity issues too. A recent project was over two years old. It had to be scrapped and started again :-[ And not because of anything within direct control of the Association.

I am (quite rightly) still bound by a confidentiallity agreement not discuss Board issues with others. There have been in the past, especially in the early years of forums when some other directors participated, issues raised which a director refused point blank to answer because of the confidentiallity issue about a project in development. Incidents like this can cause so much ill will because some forum members can't understand why there's no answer forthcoming. Hence no Directors on forums Ditto manufacturers.

As for open meetings, Non Members will never be allowed to attend the AGM. Everything else that is organised by the NCCA is open to both Members and Non Members alike.

As for promoting the Association to the public, Derek Bolton is still very active in this area. Articles are frequently requested by various national journals and newspapers. Just this week an article has been written for a weekend newspaper about Spring Cleaning soft furnishings. The Association has advised for TV programmes, radio programmes too. A few weeks ago I was at my dentists, I picked up a better homes type of magazine and there was information supplied by and credited to the NCCA. This type of thing is happening every month.

As for an "Old Boys Club" being realistic, that will always be a view held by many. Because of the nature of the beast ie a trade association run by carpet cleaners for carpet cleaners, it will typically be the more senior members of our industry who have accumulated the necessary business and trade experiences and are then able to devote the time to put in the work. Although directors can claim expenses, it is not practical to account for every penny or pound. In reality, it usually costs directors money to be a Director of the NCCA. That's not a moan, just a reality. How many young/fledgling businesses can spare the amount of time required to become involved in our Association? And young familys are another demand on their time. So yes, as a rule of thumb the NCCA Board will be predominantly the more senior members of our industry.

Safe and happy cleaning :)
Ken
Veni, vidi vici, Vaxi
I came, I saw, I conquered, I cleaned up!

Shaun_Ashmore

  • Posts: 11382
Re: NCCA Renewal
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2008, 10:59:40 pm »
I agree Ken it is easy to take shots at the NCCA, but when the NCCA say they are going to do things and then it appears that nothing happens then of course non members and members will start to lad the bullets.

Transparancy has always been an issue and although the 'behind the scenes' speech comes and goes knowone apart from 'them in the know' see what is beng done and that is the bit that is infuriating and this is never address.

Perhaps as the link between NCCA and forums you could share the views with the directors and see if this could be resolved. I did once state about 6-7 years ago that there has never been better time to gain membership and for the NCCA to gather new quality members as these forums signify us coming together, I do hope that the NCCA will take these views on board because one day (like in the US and Australia) another association will start and will fragment the industry and we'll need to start again.

Shaun


John Kelly

  • Posts: 4461
Re: NCCA Renewal
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2008, 11:21:39 pm »
The NCCA is not a business. It is a trade association set up specifically to benefit its members. Like a lot of these kinds of organisations, if some people didn't put themselves forward for nomination and do a lot of unpaid work in their own time, they would collapse. The members own it and if they are not happy with the way things are then it is up to them to change it either by pressurising the directors or standing for office themselves. Sitting back and doing nowt like most of us do most of the time, whether its politics, unions, our business or trade bodies, means nowt happens.

Re: NCCA Renewal
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2008, 11:33:11 pm »
Shaun ............ you state you have saved a grand in 5 years but my membership has earned me more than that in 2 years i have been a member  :o
Direct enquiries and via the office have earned me that but i know i have 2 regular clients, now as a result of being a member, the jobs i do for them earn twice your saving in a short weekend  ;)

Membership form always arrives at a bad time but would not forgive myself for not staying in  ;D

ianharper

Re: NCCA Renewal
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2008, 06:07:08 am »
Hi Guys

with total respect

you are moaning about yourself. its an association its only as good as its members. start putting in and you will get something from it.

have you promoted the NCCA to your customer base? do you tell prospects what it stands for? if members don't do these things then how can you expect people to know about it?

all you need do is explain it the text of your marketing showing prospects the value over using outsiders.

it would be interesting to find out how many members use the promotional material that the NCCA provides?

these guys that run the NCCA have their own business top run if every member just put in say 4 hours a month to promoting it then it profile would be much bigger.

as i said respect to your guys with negative comments nothing personal.

respect

ian harper

Susan Dean (1stclean)

  • Posts: 2064
Re: NCCA Renewal
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2008, 07:07:35 am »
Neil

As you have already gathered, I am a passionate believer in what the NCCA stands for.

I am no longer a Director of the NCCA but, as previously, I am, like some others, an "active" member.

Most of the Directors, like nearly all of our industry's manufacturers and suppliers, have decided not to contribute to internet forums. Both myself and Derek Bolton, and more recently Nick Johnston, whilst we broadly agree with this action, also believe that some presence is beneficial. We all realise though, that if you stand there as a figure head, you are just waiting to be shot down. Perhaps one reason why the barrage of non-believers will appear to "win" membership debates purely by force of numbers.  

One of the major problems is that we (the Association) can have significant projects that can involve 2, 3 or more years work and effort. It would be improper to discuss these things publicly before completion, sometimes they can be delayed for a miriad of reasons and even be cancelled, plus there can be commercial confidentiallity issues too. A recent project was over two years old. It had to be scrapped and started again :-[ And not because of anything within direct control of the Association.

I am (quite rightly) still bound by a confidentiallity agreement not discuss Board issues with others. There have been in the past, especially in the early years of forums when some other directors participated, issues raised which a director refused point blank to answer because of the confidentiallity issue about a project in development. Incidents like this can cause so much ill will because some forum members can't understand why there's no answer forthcoming. Hence no Directors on forums Ditto manufacturers.

As for open meetings, Non Members will never be allowed to attend the AGM. Everything else that is organised by the NCCA is open to both Members and Non Members alike.

As for promoting the Association to the public, Derek Bolton is still very active in this area. Articles are frequently requested by various national journals and newspapers. Just this week an article has been written for a weekend newspaper about Spring Cleaning soft furnishings. The Association has advised for TV programmes, radio programmes too. A few weeks ago I was at my dentists, I picked up a better homes type of magazine and there was information supplied by and credited to the NCCA. This type of thing is happening every month.

As for an "Old Boys Club" being realistic, that will always be a view held by many. Because of the nature of the beast ie a trade association run by carpet cleaners for carpet cleaners, it will typically be the more senior members of our industry who have accumulated the necessary business and trade experiences and are then able to devote the time to put in the work. Although directors can claim expenses, it is not practical to account for every penny or pound. In reality, it usually costs directors money to be a Director of the NCCA. That's not a moan, just a reality. How many young/fledgling businesses can spare the amount of time required to become involved in our Association? And young familys are another demand on their time. So yes, as a rule of thumb the NCCA Board will be predominantly the more senior members of our industry.

Safe and happy cleaning :)
Ken

wish i had a pound for evey time i heard this from the ncca  o.b.c. (joke)  , people are putting there veiws forward and you still reel off the same old speach maybe if you took the blinkers off and looked about you see what people would like from the ncca weather you like it or not

at least it would be good for them to say " ok guys we will put a open day on whos comeing ?????    and lets have your veiws" if people dont turn up then they have no reason to have a go at you (ncca) they would of had  there  chanse to put things across but they could nt be bothered which in turn makes them gob offs if you willing to sit on a fourm gobing off then you should be willing to travle and take timeout of your life to put your money where your mouth is ????  i would


 i understand that it can be hard to put a personal views across and i know ken that your dieing to say stuff but cant because of what ever reason but surely the top diertor can or should have the guts to poke his head up out of the trench once in a while ??

Joe H

Re: NCCA Renewal
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2008, 07:44:45 am »
All those with something to say to the NCCA about the NCCA - praise or criticism - can always write to them.

So why dont you? - something concise - a few sentences - something constructive - straight to the point (but keeping it polite). [keeping points concise in my experiance with other bodies may mean it will be read more]

If that be done in the next few weeks (say before end of April) then maybe it will get mentioned at the next committee meeting.

If the NCCA is not coming to the forum (and I can understand the reasons put by Ken) - then the forum can go to it.

So what would YOU like to see the NCCA be doing in 2 years time, 5 years time, 15 years time.

but dont expect everything YOU want come to reality - sometimes its not practical nor possible

Neil Grainger

  • Posts: 1273
Re: NCCA Renewal
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2008, 08:04:41 am »
Joe

The hole point is that this should be in the open like at a meeting where non members can attend and put their points across, Sending a letter wont do this because only the things the directors like will get aired.

Have the meeting and if no one turns up then they will no that their is no need for change. Some hurtfull things maybe said but it would get it out in the open rather than at a closed meeting that non mebers that would join if only a few little things where said

A lot of good people are not members with a lot of business experience so wont join because they dont like they way it is run.

All I here from members is that I get referalls so I am happy, is that what its about. Having a badge that gets me work. If thats the case the members are members for the wrong reason.

I get asked by customers on occasions why i am not a member, I explain how easy it is to join and that no pratical experience has to be obtained to become a member. Most are amazed about this fact alone. Membership in its present form misleads the public and does not act a as safe guard.

Can you imagine Corgi saying to members sit a paper exam, pass it and you can then be set on the world to change joe bloggs boiler. Crazy.

lands

Re: NCCA Renewal
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2008, 08:07:45 am »
Why does'nt the NCCA membership have a clause that guarantees that all incoming work is passed on to members in a strict rotation per area fashion then there will be no debate about certain people getting all the work as this will be in concrete and subject to contractual contest if not adhered to.

Get on some of these 60 minute makeover type shows and promote the industry/organisation (FREE OF CHARGE - HELLO)

Start lobbying parliament about regulating the use of carcinogenic cleaning chemicals (oh look, the industry is safer towards public, the NCCA's profile gets raised a bit more and these CC's must all be trained and tested to mett this requirement)

Admin appears to be first on the agenda with the organistion and what it forgets is that this a mechanism to support its goals not be integral to them

Nice and simple to implement. Do these things and I'll join (and I'm sure many would follow/return)

Pete

diamond

  • Posts: 94
Re: NCCA Renewal
« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2008, 09:43:28 am »
bieng a member of the ncca gives me confidence in selling. when i joined i didnt expect to get many leads if any. customers dont know what the ncca means but the see that you are a member of an organised body, subconsiously this gets through to the customer.

i am all for the membership and i find it definetly gives me an  edge over non members in my area, at least in my sales pitch and confidence.

Susan Dean (1stclean)

  • Posts: 2064
Re: NCCA Renewal
« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2008, 09:55:33 am »
 hope the ncca or  some of its main men are reading  and not looking thourh ncca tinted classes or are we banging our heads on the wall like so many have done for years befour us here today ? 

ive looked at this post and from what i can see is alot of real good cleaners thats been in the game for years like me are just giveing there veiws not haveing ago just maybe getting things off there chest

  some are right and some are wrong but i cant see any down right ncca haters posts  yet and theres alot of passion comeing across and im sure it would do the ncca some good to get people on board like us , with passion for the game

 however i could name quite afew from the past that have been pushed  a side because there veiws did not conform bit like letter writeing who does that these days ??? we recover cars for three major insure.  companys and its all done buy job numbers and t.x
letter write went out ten years ago

but as ken as said maybe people like myself remember the old days tomuch ??? maybe they have changed and are takeing things on board time will tell eh ??? im sure they will write a letter and tell us lolol (joke sorry couldnt help myself

Shaun_Ashmore

  • Posts: 11382
Re: NCCA Renewal
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2008, 12:56:09 pm »
With the 5 years I was a member never got a job or enquiry but as stated previously I have one of teh founder members in my area and as I said before make of that what you will.

I think the real thing is that there is no moving forward, perhaps I should shunt them forward and become a member????

Shaun