[AuRavelling79]

About six months ago I get this call from Mrs. T - who has been told that I'm a good window cleaner by one of my customers (the blind one who can't see the mess I leave LOL) - and she (Mrs. T) hasn't seen her window cleaner for six months etc.

So I tool on round and see a small modern detached brown upvc and small conservatory and say £15 per month or £25 every two months you choose. She goes for the £15 and off we go.

First time - happy bunny!

Second time she says:-
"There were some spots on the bottom of the pane above the conservatory"

I say "Yes it's a bit tight getting the brush there over the conservatory roof finials, but it didn't get done at all when your w/c on ladders did it"

Third time - husband pays - happy bunny

Fourth time - (Really hot day) "Can you do the roof of the conservatory?"

I charge £35 including the house (way too cheap I know) and 45 mins later I've got my hand out.

"That's very expensive, I'm shocked" she says.
"No, that's very reasonable" says I
"I'll have to pay by cheque then" (like I'm some rag it and run, giz the cash merchant)
"Fine, it all goes the same way" says me.

I bite my tongue as her adult mentally-disabled daughter is stood alongside her but made a mental note not to take any more nonsense.

Today I go round, ring bell no reply, check side gate is unlocked and I start the front. Top fronts done, go back to do bottoms and she's there waving her arms at me like a demented windmill.

Out she comes - "No, no I phoned to say I didn't want you this time as I'm on holiday next week."

Me "Oh, I didn't get the message, who did you speak to?"

Her "No-one, there was no reply."

Me (Incredulous look on my face) "How was I supposed to know, then? - and besides I don't work on that basis."

Her (Sour faced) "Well I don't want it done now"

Me (Slightly irate and stiffly polite) "Well I've done the front, I can finish the house or you can settle up now for what I've done."

She pays me for the front only and says (like she's doing me a favour)

"I'll call you after I get back off holiday."

Me (Forced smile) "You don't seem to understand, Mrs T. - I'm not ever coming back! Good day to you, madam!"

Her (As I get to the end of her path) "And you mind my flowers!"

Me (Turning on heel and calling forcefully so that the neighbours can hear)
"Mrs. T., You needn't worry as I will never darken your doorstep again - I don't deal with unreasonable customers!"

Went round the corner to my next customer, neighbour comes out - big 3 bed semi £20 - new customer! You win some and you win some!

[captain lard]

A happy ening of sorts mate but jeez my guts were tightening on your behalf just reading that! I havent had anything like that yet and hope i can deal with it when it inevitably comes.Well done that man.

[Trevor Knight]

Hi Malc,

You just haven't learn't have you, the customers are the ones doing us a favour, we need them more than they need us!

Yeah RIGHT !

A definate file 13 candidate, call you indeed  :

[pjulk]

I had one today i dont want it done im going on holiday today.

It was nice of you to let me know i said.

Well i aint got time to ring round telling everyone im going away do it next time.

Ok i said

As if i going to do it next time he has wasted my time so i will waste his.

Trevor whats a file 13 candidate is it one that gets done on the 13th month

Paul

[Trevor Knight]

Yep, you guessed right Paul 

[Pj]

Well, I do sometimes react the way you explain.
I prefer my reverse psychology method though, which all you hardened smart business men probably won't agree with:  Mrs X comes running out after I've started, "Stop!  I phoned you..." etc.  Well swallow your pride, give her the benefit of the doubt, put your stuff away and smile, "Don't worry, my mistake!"  Leave the rest to her.  she may call you back and never do such a thing again, you may get her relatives too, you may not..  Big deal!  So you put a little old woman in her place!  Tough smart tradesman!
I remember an excellent post the other day showing an attachment from an official survey, Why windowcleaners have a bad reputation at times.  I'm sure remaining courteous even though provoked, was one line of advice.
We are only window cleaners (with self respect, true), regardless of what our own opinion of ourselves may be, we perform a very non-essential service and are paid generously for it. 

[AuRavelling79]

Well, I do sometimes react the way you explain.
I prefer my reverse psychology method though, which all you hardened smart business men probably won't agree with:  Mrs X comes running out after I've started, "Stop!  I phoned you..." etc.  Well swallow your pride, give her the benefit of the doubt, put your stuff away and smile, "Don't worry, my mistake!"  Leave the rest to her.  she may call you back and never do such a thing again, you may get her relatives too, you may not..  Big deal!  So you put a little old woman in her place!  Tough smart tradesman!
I remember an excellent post the other day showing an attachment from an official survey, Why windowcleaners have a bad reputation at times.  I'm sure remaining courteous even though provoked, was one line of advice.
We are only window cleaners (with self respect, true), regardless of what our own opinion of ourselves may be, we perform a very non-essential service and are paid generously for it. 

Thank you for your input Pj - good advice as usual.

Please be assured I have the discernment and humility to admit my mistakes and do my best to correct them when I make them. I have plenty of "little old ladies" as customers- some underpriced - who I treat respectfully, like all my customers.

This particular (ex-) customer is an obnoxious, nitpicking, condescending harridan; one of only a handful I have ever dropped (which I always do politely but firmly).

[Trevor Knight]

We are only window cleaners (with self respect, true), regardless of what our own opinion of ourselves may be, we perform a very non-essential service and are paid generously for it.  

Absolute rubbish. Window Cleaning is one of the highest household requirements in the UK. This is why there are so many window cleaners with so many customers.

I have worked through 2 recessions and speak with experience that window cleaning has stayed the distance and lived to tell the tale.

As for commercial environments - A clean and bright office encourages good moral and better work performance, ask any Human Resources Managers if they would dump their window cleaning contracts and you can count on 1 hand the amount that would say yes!

Sorry, don't want to seem offensive but your statement is unjustified and incorrect!

Trev

[scrimit2]

how do people classify essential? ok it if you dont have your windows cleaned, your house wont fall down and you wont starve, but you will have dirty windows, and the glass and plastic frames will become damaged if they arent regularly cleaned. its seems pretty essential by some of my customers phone me at all hours for being a few weeks late 

[Pj]

We are only window cleaners (with self respect, true), regardless of what our own opinion of ourselves may be, we perform a very non-essential service and are paid generously for it.  

Absolute rubbish. Window Cleaning is one of the highest household requirements in the UK. This is why there are so many window cleaners with so many customers.

I have worked through 2 recessions and speak with experience that window cleaning has stayed the distance and lived to tell the tale.

As for commercial environments - A clean and bright office encourages good moral and better work performance, ask any Human Resources Managers if they would dump their window cleaning contracts and you can count on 1 hand the amount that would say yes!

Sorry, don't want to seem offensive but your statement is unjustified and incorrect!

Trev

You may not want to seem offensive, but you are!

Strange that you have been around so long and have so much experience, yet you don't know that windowcleaning is officially termed "A non-essential service".

Malc gave a wiser response.  Thank you Malc, and I accept that she was, no doubt the exception.

You may be a voluntary modifier on a forum, but you are not The authority!

I have been around a lot longer than you, and for all you know I may have more experience in window cleaning, in fact I do.

Most Facilities managers will also tell you that when cut-backs need to be made, non-essentials such as windowcleaning, are definitely considered as unnecessary expenses.
This is off topic, but you took it that way, I'm afraid it is easy to sound right when you speak with such conviction on a subject, and lesser experienced will be convinced by an authoritarian.  The wiser, mostly look on knowingly, not needing to add anything.

Try not to make your comments so rudely personal.  Set a better example.

[Trevor Knight]

PJ, If you find my response offensive then I apologise.

I am stating what is a fact having been through 2 recessions and found that window cleaning was still as sought after as it was, regardless of the financial economy.

Whilst I am a moderator I have yet to see where it states The Authority, although I do have the authority to deal with postings on here that are not in accordance with the forum.

As for you being around here a lot longer than me, well if that is the case, you will have seen for yourself as you will also have survived the recessions and like me, able to live to tell the tale?

This was not a PERSONAL go at you in any way. I am just pointing out that despite what you may believe window cleaning is in fact (please look at building maintainace contracts terms and conditions) quite if not a very essential requirement for offices,factories,letting agents,accomodation blocks,Council Properties as well as any managed property.

As for setting an example - Please complete your profile!

Best wishes,

Trevor

[Pj]

My profile is as complete as it needs to be.  As for your veiled threat to remove people from this forum, I have done nothing to break any of the rules required, even remotely.

If you look back you will find what I am saying is true regarding the attitude and status of window cleaners.

Now you are simply resorting to casting me in a bad light.  There is no need for such heavy handedness.  Malc was quite satisfied with my comments and agreed with them.  I think you are letting personal opinion cloud your judgement.

your apology would have been sufficient.

   Norfolk

[Trevor Knight]

Pat,

I am not trying nor wish to cast you in a bad light at all.

All I am simply doing is stating what is the situation regarding if window cleaning is high up the picking order.

As for deleting threads, I would never do that, it was a light hearted castaway, nothing more.

The reason for asking about profiles is purely to help each other. When someone posts regarding needing help it is easy to put them in touch with people who are close to them, otherwise if I don't know how can I help.

Right, lets agree to disagree on the window cleaning issues and I apologise if you think I am having a go at you as I am NOT!

Best wishes,

Trev

[24-7 S C Services]

Morning everyone,

If I come across a client that says 'Not today', then they are no longer a client. I do not give second chances or accept a holiday as an excuse for their windows being missed. I inform all my clients, that we currently have a waiting list of people wishing to utilise our professional and efficient services and that due to this, we only accept regular clients on our terms.

One of my clients went away last month without informing me, they have an electric gate at their house, so I could not access the property. Due to this, I invoiced them £15 (minimum charge). They phoned me when they returned from holiday and wanted to know why I had charged, especially as they where on holiday and had not had their windows cleaned. My answer was simple, 'We travelled to your house on the agreed date to clean your windows, we unfortunately could not access your property to clean the windows because you where on holiday and did not inform us. If you had of informed us, we would have issued you with another date. However, we incur expenses every time we travel to a client’s property and these expenses have to be paid for'. 

Now that may appear harsh, but factual, they agreed the error was theirs, paid the invoice and still continues to use our services.

Many Thanks

Andrew

[Pj]

Good morning,

Well done!
 Just because you can do that in Berkshire doesn't make it good business practise for everywhere else.
When I lived in Hertfordshire up until 20 years ago, I ran a small but successful business.  I had a minimum call out charge of £15 + VAT, also minimum charge per job of £17:50 + VAT.  Some days we earned good money on that basic service fee alone!  The job was not windowcleaning, but on a par.

When I moved to Norfolk running the same business, we introduced the same service.  I thought the past success was down to my personal skills and experience.  It had worked fine for me, so that is how I would operate!
Local businesses and individuals laughed in my face!  They simply refused a service charge and my minimum charge.  Completely different market, local culture and mindset.  I was forced to adjust, not them!  But my business subsequently failed.  Long term, the lessons life taught me are worth far more than any financial rewards or losses.  But you would have to know me to be convinced of that.

[JM123]

pphheeww!!  chill out guys!  hahahaha

PJ, profiles are there for a reason, if you don't want to complete yours then fine, but what gets me (along with a few others on the forum) is people asking for help with RO's, where to get stuff, some have even asked if there is another wcer close to them to show them the ropes - how is anyone meant to answer that if they haven't completed their profile?

Trev, you've been getting a little wound up at times lately, its a hard job being a mod (I mod on another non-related site) so I can understand how hard it can get at times.

Having a right old ding-dong I think is good for the forum at times, I've evn had a bit of an 'argument' with MikeB but guys don't let it get out of hand - asking someone to apologise is degrading and unprofessional, especailly when they have no need to (thats just my own take on it  -I may be wrong).

[Pj]

Point taken JM

Hey, I'm chill to de bone!

I was not asking for an apology, however I do not agree that asking someone to apologise is unprofessional or degrading.  I do not personally see it as a sign of weakness to apologise, in fact it is a strength, it gains respect.

There is sufficient in my profile to identify me.  The forum admin has my email, people who know me know how to contact me.  At present the forum asks no more than that, if it did I would give it.  if there are guys on here asking info and I can help, it takes just another post or two to exchange personal details as I have done with one or two I trust.  Plus there are unsavoury, unscrupulous types of w/cs that I know locally, who I do not want to be associated with or share hard earned knowledge with.  This is a public forum and as such has it's insecurities, the forum administration have posted clear warnings about that.  I know of a few who have had problems because of personal details being available.  It should be a matter for personal choice.
Many are able to give some business contact, but for many their details are their private address.  The Internet hosts a jungle of predatory types.
etc. etc.

[macc]

I hope the attitude shown on some posts is not shown to the customers.

Pain in the neck customers/ pain in the neck wc, goes both ways.

Anyway, ROUND 6. 

Macc

[Pj]

I hope the attitude shown on some posts is not shown to the customers.

Pain in the neck customers/ pain in the neck wc, goes both ways.

Anyway, ROUND 6. 

Macc

It's all relative, my friend.

[Trevor Knight]

Trev, you've been getting a little wound up at times lately, its a hard job being a mod (I mod on another non-related site) so I can understand how hard it can get at times.

If thats the case then thank you for bringing it to my attention, and for that I apologise again.

I am just trying to do what is asked of me and feel sometimes you just can't win. People moan about certain issuse so I act on it to have the people I have acted on start moaning.

I am a mod yes, but I also bring to this forum a wealth of knowledge and can back it up with the successful business I operate. I donate probably in the region of 15 hours a week to this forum, and don't get paid for a single minute, not that I would want to.

I guess as a mod I have to accept I am not entitled to an opinion that may ruffle some feathers, oh well. Happy days.

Thanks again JM, appreciate a bit of honesty.

Cheers