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Plankton

  • Posts: 2441
Re: vanarama customers 😊
« Reply #40 on: December 15, 2017, 05:16:25 pm »
A few years ago I dropped a ladder on my motor and then when I got the pickup I dropped the ladder again only a few doors down on the same street! Got the new van and they phoned up for gutter clearing again and I blanked them! I thought feck that, that street's got me jinxed!

Jonny 87

  • Posts: 3512
Re: vanarama customers 😊
« Reply #41 on: December 15, 2017, 05:51:39 pm »
Disagree brother in law had a connect dented wing and side door repair cost was 1800 quid this was added to the ballon payment

Darran

so did he pay it and keep the van?or hand it back?

Doesn’t make sense having a balloon payment and paying for damages?

The balloon payment is to take the vehicle away and essentially buy it off the leasing company. They won’t care how damaged it is, aslong as they get there balloon.

Sorry, this is incorrect.

The balloon payment is there to reduce the monthly payment to make it more affordable. So what the finance house is trying to do is lease the vehicle ensuring that the lease covers the depreciation of that vehicle over the period of the lease and their profit. The balloon payment is usually what they see the value of the van being worth at the end of the contract.

If you damage it in any way then the van isn't worth what they have valued it at in good condition - hence the additional charges.

Spruce that can’t be the way dazmonds contract is laid out surely?

At the end of his contract He has the option to either hand it back and start again...... or pay the balloon and keep the vehicle.

If daz opts to pay the balloon fee of 7000 for a 5 year old vehicle (when they have been getting monthly payments already to cover the cost of the vehicle ) and keep the vehicle,  they won’t even want to bring daz back into the office, it will be agreed over the phone what he wants to do, and payment taken? .......... surely?
Vision Technician / Visual Engineer /  Vision Enhancement Operative /...........................................................OnlyUseMeWFP AkA Jonny the Windy Wesher

George P

  • Posts: 1304
Re: vanarama customers 😊
« Reply #42 on: December 16, 2017, 10:25:35 am »
George p where is company based you recommend?

I'm Essex Waltham Abbey.
Thanks

There based in Derby but deliver nationwide

dazmond

  • Posts: 24451
Re: vanarama customers 😊
« Reply #43 on: December 16, 2017, 04:12:09 pm »
ive just found out that the road fund licence is subject to 20% VAT.i didnt know that.so instead of £240 for the year its £288! ::)roll and they ll take the money from my account on xmas day!
price higher/work harder!

Spruce

  • Posts: 8647
Re: vanarama customers 😊
« Reply #44 on: December 16, 2017, 06:18:23 pm »
Disagree brother in law had a connect dented wing and side door repair cost was 1800 quid this was added to the ballon payment

Darran

so did he pay it and keep the van?or hand it back?

Doesn’t make sense having a balloon payment and paying for damages?

The balloon payment is to take the vehicle away and essentially buy it off the leasing company. They won’t care how damaged it is, aslong as they get there balloon.

Sorry, this is incorrect.

The balloon payment is there to reduce the monthly payment to make it more affordable. So what the finance house is trying to do is lease the vehicle ensuring that the lease covers the depreciation of that vehicle over the period of the lease and their profit. The balloon payment is usually what they see the value of the van being worth at the end of the contract.

If you damage it in any way then the van isn't worth what they have valued it at in good condition - hence the additional charges.

Spruce that can’t be the way dazmonds contract is laid out surely?

At the end of his contract He has the option to either hand it back and start again...... or pay the balloon and keep the vehicle.

If daz opts to pay the balloon fee of 7000 for a 5 year old vehicle (when they have been getting monthly payments already to cover the cost of the vehicle ) and keep the vehicle,  they won’t even want to bring daz back into the office, it will be agreed over the phone what he wants to do, and payment taken? .......... surely?

I should have clarified that comment a little more. In essence you are right and I was a little 'blunt' in my response. Sorry.  But there are always buts.

I don't know what contract Daz has got, but if he has a contract on the lines of a PCP then he could just pay off the £7000 balance (probably + VAT) and have the vehicle registered into his name without issue. It sounds very much like an HP in disguise where they sell the van to DAZ at the end of the day for the final payment. It won't be a true lease as the only way he could extend the lease would be via a peppercorn rental. In this case he would pay off the £7000 + VAT but continue to 'lease' the van for a minimal amount each year. The van never becomes his.

But each deal depends on how the 'lease' is stacked up. This is why anyone going into financing a van must be so careful what he is getting into and more importantly, how he is getting out of it at the end of the contract.

Finance law states that if a person or company lease a vehicle they aren't allowed to own it at the end of the contract. The only time they can is if the van is on HP as the vehicle is registered into the owners name rather than the finance house's name.

And this is where the problem begins. Finance houses try to dress up finance deals with all sorts of fancy titles. Unfortunately for Joe Bloggs, 2 finance houses can call their contract by the same name and yet have 2 different end results.

The op says he has spoken to Vanarama and was told of 2 forms of leasing, contract hire and finance lease. In both cases the van is registered in the finance houses name.

The difference between the two options is how the risk is played out at the end of the contract. With CH (Contract Hire) the finance house takes the risk and you lease (rent) the van from them for the agreed period of time and mileage. Any issues at the end of the contract, ie; the van is over mileage or has damage, then they will bill you. The bill isn't in your favour.

With Finance lease you take the risk at the end of the day. To reduce your payment you will find the balloon payment or final payment is what they hope the vehicle is worth at the end of the day. But they don't particularly care. Its your problem as you took on the risk.
If you are a builder the finance house generally refuses to have a balloon payment at the end of the contract as the van is usually so badly treated its not worth much.  They do that to protect themselves.
But if you have a final payment its then your problem to sell the van. Yes, all the finance house is interested in is completeing the deal. So in Daz's case they want £7000 + VAT from him.  Is his van going to be worth £7000 + VAT in 5 years? I doubt it, even in pristine condition. (I don't know how they arrive at this figure tbh as it means his van hasn't depreciated at the same rate as every one else's van has.) But Daz has to suffer the loss, either directly or indirectly. He wants to keep his van, so will he be paying £7000 + VAT for a van that's only worth say £5000 + VAT. (However this also depends on how he looks at the whole deal. Yes he has a vehicle that is say £2000 over priced, but he did indirectly benefit by having lower monthly repayments because of this high balloon payment.)

If Daz decides to hand the van back with the keys (if there is this option) then the finance house will want its £7000. As the value probably won't be in the vehicle the finance house will start to find ways to raise the short fall. Hence Darran's comment about his BIL's experience. Its what's in the small print.

The other issue with these contracts is how the vehicle is to be registered at the end of the contract. If this is a true finance lease then Daz  won't be able to register his van in 5 years time in the same name as the contract was under. Often the van would have to be registered in a family members name or to your personal name if the contract was in a business name. If they insist that Daz registers the van in his girls friends name, how will he finance the outstanding £7000 + VAT?

The other thing is that as leasing is aimed at VAT registered business, you will pay VAT on the interest element of the deal. If you are VAT registered it doesn't matter as you claim it back, but it means added expense for us non VAT registered sole traders. He also found out that they bill him VAT on RFL.

.
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

dazmond

  • Posts: 24451
Re: vanarama customers 😊
« Reply #45 on: December 16, 2017, 08:29:18 pm »
Spruce the balloon payment is 7k INCLUDING VAT.  a 5 year old limited connect in very good condition with 20,000-25,000 on the clock  wouldn't be far off that price probably. 
price higher/work harder!

dazmond

  • Posts: 24451
Re: vanarama customers 😊
« Reply #46 on: December 16, 2017, 08:32:11 pm »
As for financing the 7k balloon payment spruce I'll just pay it off in full with my savings.
price higher/work harder!

Stoots

  • Posts: 6356
Re: vanarama customers 😊
« Reply #47 on: December 16, 2017, 10:26:45 pm »
As for financing the 7k balloon payment spruce I'll just pay it off in full with my savings.


I'll bet you wish you never took out the lease daz. 288 quid for tax, daft balloon payments.

Bet you wished you got a bank loan or other low finance option to buy one.

Don't lie to yourself, you regret it.
Keep reading how much you love your van, can't kid a kidder. Thou doth protest too much.  :D :-*

KS Cleaning

  • Posts: 4111
Re: vanarama customers 😊
« Reply #48 on: December 17, 2017, 01:14:37 am »
ive just found out that the road fund licence is subject to 20% VAT.i didnt know that.so instead of £240 for the year its £288! ::)roll and they ll take the money from my account on xmas day!
Bah humbug🤣

Spruce

  • Posts: 8647
Re: vanarama customers 😊
« Reply #49 on: December 17, 2017, 06:23:32 am »
As for financing the 7k balloon payment spruce I'll just pay it off in full with my savings.

Sorry if it got a bit personal. It wasn't meant to. I was just using your finance deal as an example of what could go wrong if fellow windies don't scrutinize the minute detail of the finance plan they are getting into.
 
BTW, I'm glad the £7000 includes the VAT.  :)

Leasing makes it easier on the pocket to keep a new van on the road as you are basically paying for the depreciation of the van. At the end of the lease you get another vehicle and start again.
HP was usually about paying a vehicle off fully by the end of the loan period.  In todays market of increasing motoring costs and shrinking income, balloon payments have become more popular as a way of keeping the monthly repayments 'affordable'. The motor industry support these new type of finance packages as they tend to sell more vehicles on the back of it.
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

Spruce

  • Posts: 8647
Re: vanarama customers 😊
« Reply #50 on: December 17, 2017, 09:46:35 am »
Lee,

Grippatank also do complete system and van leasing. The finance house they use have approved the systems Grippa fit.

You might even be able to get them to remove the system from your van at the end of the contract and transfer it across the the next van depending on how the system is financed.
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

Stoots

  • Posts: 6356
Re: vanarama customers 😊
« Reply #51 on: December 17, 2017, 10:49:50 am »
As for financing the 7k balloon payment spruce I'll just pay it off in full with my savings.

Sorry if it got a bit personal. It wasn't meant to. I was just using your finance deal as an example of what could go wrong if fellow windies don't scrutinize the minute detail of the finance plan they are getting into.
 
BTW, I'm glad the £7000 includes the VAT.  :)

Leasing makes it easier on the pocket to keep a new van on the road as you are basically paying for the depreciation of the van. At the end of the lease you get another vehicle and start again.
HP was usually about paying a vehicle off fully by the end of the loan period.  In todays market of increasing motoring costs and shrinking income, balloon payments have become more popular as a way of keeping the monthly repayments 'affordable'. The motor industry support these new type of finance packages as they tend to sell more vehicles on the back of it.

Yes but don't vehicles depreciate the most during the first few years, so essentially you are paying the depreciation on the most expensive part.

It makes more sense in my mind to buy and own (whether outright or low interest loan) a slightly older vehicle that has taken some of that depreciation hit.

But I suppose if you must have a brand new van then that's the premium you pay for the luxury.

I think the balancing act is trying to find something old enough it's that is cheaper to buy but new enough so as to not be a dog.

I wonder where that sweet spot lies in terms of mileage/age Vs price ? I would suggest it's a lottery, you pay your money and take your chances with vehicles.

I had a van I paid 5 grand for and it cost me another 2 when the gearbox and other things went wrong and I've also had vehicles I've bought for under a grand and never spent a penny on them during years of motoring.

dazmond

  • Posts: 24451
Re: vanarama customers 😊
« Reply #52 on: December 17, 2017, 11:50:19 am »
Same here adam. It's a lottery with vans.

I just wanted a brand new vehicle for once. I've always had old vans before. I don't care about the money.i put some work up which easily covers the monthly rental so I don't notice it. At the end of the contract paying 7k for a 5 Yr old van that has 20k on the clock and full service history is not too bad.

That's how I look at it adam  :)
price higher/work harder!

RPCCS

  • Posts: 1021
Re: vanarama customers 😊
« Reply #53 on: December 17, 2017, 05:00:38 pm »
I looked into leasing a van earlier this year, but decided against it. Over 200 a month, plus vat, if I got a week like we had last week, where it froze solid for 2 days, and p***ed down for the other 3, I will panicking. I still owe 15 months payments on the current van, 07 Transit,but aiming to go to a mk2 Dispatch come the spring, better on fuel, and better lasting bodywork. I will be looking at the dealer finance, we changed the car in September, and the finance was 3.9% over 5 years, or 0%over 3. We went for the 5, as the 3 year option would be too much monthly outlay.  Has anyone got experience of the Merc Vito? I may consider one of those, as similar size to Dispatch.
Cheers Rich

Steve Newres

Re: vanarama customers 😊
« Reply #54 on: December 17, 2017, 05:35:32 pm »
I looked into leasing a van earlier this year, but decided against it. Over 200 a month, plus vat, if I got a week like we had last week, where it froze solid for 2 days, and p***ed down for the other 3, I will panicking. I still owe 15 months payments on the current van, 07 Transit,but aiming to go to a mk2 Dispatch come the spring, better on fuel, and better lasting bodywork. I will be looking at the dealer finance, we changed the car in September, and the finance was 3.9% over 5 years, or 0%over 3. We went for the 5, as the 3 year option would be too much monthly outlay.  Has anyone got experience of the Merc Vito? I may consider one of those, as similar size to Dispatch.
Did you not work last week?

RPCCS

  • Posts: 1021
Re: vanarama customers 😊
« Reply #55 on: December 17, 2017, 06:16:55 pm »
Not much, Monday didn't go out, as -5 all day, Tuesday, did 2 jobs, then everything froze, Wednesday, got some work done, but lost 2 hours as it was p ing down. Thursday, had to wait for delivery, so didn't start until 10. 30, did 4 jobs, then it peed down again, Friday, peed down all morning, started at 11.30, and worked until 4.
Cheers Rich

windowswashed

  • Posts: 2626
Re: vanarama customers 😊
« Reply #56 on: December 17, 2017, 09:34:19 pm »
Last week it rained 3 and a half days, I took half a day off, determined to clean in the rain. Bang up to date with work and brought two days early for tomorrow's work and the remainder one day early so will finish on Friday.

Steve Newres

Re: vanarama customers 😊
« Reply #57 on: December 18, 2017, 07:25:41 am »
Not much, Monday didn't go out, as -5 all day, Tuesday, did 2 jobs, then everything froze, Wednesday, got some work done, but lost 2 hours as it was p ing down. Thursday, had to wait for delivery, so didn't start until 10. 30, did 4 jobs, then it peed down again, Friday, peed down all morning, started at 11.30, and worked until 4.
Why didn't you work in the rain? I accept it's not so cold here, but I started in -5 one on Tuesday last week. I got drenched on another day and worked through. Two vans never lost a penny all week. The issue isn't the weather.

AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 26588
Re: vanarama customers 😊 New
« Reply #58 on: December 18, 2017, 08:35:32 am »
In general terms my overall stance with vans is to buy brand new and run forever. (well minimum ten years)

My Doblo (56 plate) is still going on 70,000 miles and is 11 years old and still serving Dan the Man reliably.

My Hyundai is now middle aged coming up six years in the new year on 33,000 miles. I see no reason not to just run it into the ground or at least until it becomes unreliable. By that point (I hope) I will have the health, desire, savings and /or credit to get another brand new one and it will have a value of about a grand.

Having said that - at my age  - it might be my last w/c van ever!

If my health holds and I slowly reduce my work I might go for something smaller or even run a trailer if I'm down to a few days a month of cream work.
It's a game of three halves!

RPCCS

  • Posts: 1021
Re: vanarama customers 😊
« Reply #59 on: December 18, 2017, 09:03:23 am »
Not much, Monday didn't go out, as -5 all day, Tuesday, did 2 jobs, then everything froze, Wednesday, got some work done, but lost 2 hours as it was p ing down. Thursday, had to wait for delivery, so didn't start until 10. 30, did 4 jobs, then it peed down again, Friday, peed down all morning, started at 11.30, and worked until 4.
Why didn't you work in the rain? I accept it's not so cold here, but I started in -5 one on Tuesday last week. I got drenched on another day and worked through. Two vans never lost a penny all week. The issue isn't the weather.
its a pointless excercise, first, no one wants their windows cleaned in the rain, certainly not domestic customers,.  Second,, its  a waste of time, as rain is full'of crap, and dirties the windows anyway, , hence the reason for point 1.  Light rain I work in, but not when its tipping down. As for working in sub zero conditions,  the water freezes on windows where there is no heat in the room, eg  porches and conservatories,. Along with that, each time the waterr is turned off between windows, the jets freeze up . So how did you manage to work in -5?
Cheers Rich