[Ian101]

Not read all of these posts cos basically your all correct and what works for you ... well works for you however I think you should pack in cleaning windows and all become top class defence / prosecution  barristers 

[Ian101]

ifu can afford drop in wages 

[SeanK]

ifu can afford drop in wages 

I was going to say politicians, but that would cut most wages in half.

[Ian101]

ifu can afford drop in wages 

I was going to say politicians, but that would cut most wages in half.

not politicians ..... you've all got more passion in your arguments 

[NWH]

I haven't read all the comments but all I'm going to say is that £27 for a 3 bed semi in the south or where I work is no biggy,I have a minimum charge on any house of £20 regardless of the amount of windows etc. if I did a bungalow and it was £30 if I had nothing within a couple of miles I wouldn't want it TBH

[NWH]

Another thing that experience teaches you when doing higher end domestics is that price has little to do with it,it's all down to trust and if they actually take to you as a person. Price is just 1 factor in gaining quality work,if they don't like the look of you you could do a £100 job for £50 you still wouldn't get it round my neck of the woods. I've gained loads of work over the years from crap WFPolers and in some cases charged twice the price,customers relations and people skills will get you further in this game than just going in and undercutting. Believe it or not if your to cheap the old alarm bells start ringing,if you price what you should be charging you should be able to plod on and do far more than a couple headless chickens thrashing through work. You'd be surprised how many I've known think there earning far more than others just down to the fact they think they must be because physically there working harder.

[Smudger]

Ahhh, such a pity this thread was forced down to the lowest common denominator by Sean an KS

Before taking up window cleaning I carried out a survey by knocking a few dozen roads in several villages, the result of this was a surprise most important, top of the list was reliability !!!!
Followed by..... Quality !!!! Oh yeah then came ( a long way behind about 1 in 15 ) price...   Ta daa

On this we based our biz around the first 2 - I was never scared to price well ( but fair ) that's why a four week service is just that  every 4 weeks the same day of the week every time. Or in the case of heavy rain caught up no later than 3 working days - yes that means Saturday or Sunday work.


On the above your more likely to lose custom for bad service or quality than price, my dropouts over the years have backed this up.

Vin is a great guy, and works hard at his biz, he's also passionate about ( rightly so ) some on here just can't take that, or accept points of view, I have never known vin to be rude, yet there are those who have insecurities attack him personally because they have no facts to their own argument on.

For the last 3 years we have promoted 8 wky cleans in a more positive way, I get 25 to 40% more per clean and like vin two thirds take this option  - why because these people do not want a shiney rapping on the door every month, they see it as a quality service, delivered reliably at a good price.

Those who want 4 wky are also happy, cheaper clean, more often, either way I've not had a " omg you back already " for years !!

If I started again I'd do 6 and 12 week options  - 4 wky is IMO outdated with wfp

Lastly - my van buying habits are my own ! - 

Best regards
Darran

[SeanK]

Smudger maybe you should get your facts right before casting stones, firstly I never attacked Vin or anybody else on this
post, nor did I accuse him of being rude.
I stated that I couldn't get £27 for a three bed semi in my area and explained as best as I could why this was, for this I was
called delusional (not by Vin ) and it went down hill from there, Vin has as much to answer for why this happened  as the two names you mentioned.
For every example you give of why it works for you there will be as many guys for which it wont work, price might not be high
on the list in your surveyed area that doesn't mean it wont be top of the list elsewhere.
You also talk about quality, well one of the biggest concerns in my area has the worst quality you have ever come across
yet only a small percentage of their customers ever move elsewhere and they not cheap either.

[CasaDeCabra]

As Spike Milligan once said.....

"I thought I'd begin by reading a poem by Shakespeare, but then I thought, why should I? He never reads any of mine"

[8weekly]

Smudger maybe you should get your facts right before casting stones, firstly I never attacked Vin or anybody else on this
post, nor did I accuse him of being rude.
I stated that I couldn't get £27 for a three bed semi in my area and explained as best as I could why this was, for this I was
called delusional (not by Vin ) and it went down hill from there, Vin has as much to answer for why this happened  as the two names you mentioned.
For every example you give of why it works for you there will be as many guys for which it wont work, price might not be high
on the list in your surveyed area that doesn't mean it wont be top of the list elsewhere.
You also talk about quality, well one of the biggest concerns in my area has the worst quality you have ever come across
yet only a small percentage of their customers ever move elsewhere and they not cheap either.

You also reckon it only costs £500 a year to run your business. It is part of the same mindset of small thinking which leads to low pricing.

[Smudger]

Tbh Sean when the topic is about those that employ and the debate/conversation is differing approaches to business the price of a clean, and the fact you repeatedly state no one can charge that, this or the other, or can earn a,b or c per hour, or turnover £££££££ a year,does not need to be yet again thrown into the mix

When I talked about vin you may have noted that was a different paragraph, new paragraph means new subject, it does not state you attacked vin, the previous paragraph stated you and KS brought the thread down, it's not fact it's my opinion, you had to hijack a thread and turn it into a price debate (again - sigh)
Sorry if you confused yourself with the next paragraph where no names were mentioned and it was more of a general observation I've seen over the years.

So, the quality of cleans in your area are poor ? Yet the prices are high ? But they keep there customers ?

Have I understood that correctly?

Darran

[CleanClear]

If I started again I'd do 6 and 12 week options  - 4 wky is IMO outdated with wfp

In general i'd agree with your 6 and 12 week observation. My own work seems to have gravitated to that. And i NEVER get a "leave it today".
 I'd disagree with your assumption that is outdated because of or down to WFP though. The air quality is generally better, we no longer have coal fires and heavily polluting cars etc neccesitating fortnighly cleans. And of course, WFP cannot cure spiders webs, eggs, leaves, seeds etc............which we find on windows. I "think" its just want people want, and what they are prepared to pay. I have been sacked because i couldn't come round fortnightly    Can't please everyone, you only have to please the majority of your customers.
  Regards Vin, he is mostly correct and well thought out. Funny when he gets it wrong though, be prepared for a wikipedia and google bomb !!!!!    All twisted the right way................

[SeanK]

Tbh Sean when the topic is about those that employ and the debate/conversation is differing approaches to business the price of a clean, and the fact you repeatedly state no one can charge that, this or the other, or can earn a,b or c per hour, or turnover £££££££ a year,does not need to be yet again thrown into the mix

When I talked about vin you may have noted that was a different paragraph, new paragraph means new subject, it does not state you attacked vin, the previous paragraph stated you and KS brought the thread down, it's not fact it's my opinion, you had to hijack a thread and turn it into a price debate (again - sigh)
Sorry if you confused yourself with the next paragraph where no names were mentioned and it was more of a general observation I've seen over the years.

So, the quality of cleans in your area are poor ? Yet the prices are high ? But they keep there customers ?

Have I understood that correctly?

Darran

Yes Darran the topic is about employing and why for some it doesn't seem worthwhile, that's where earnings came into it.
Some said because of what they can charge it would be hard to make enough to make employing worthwhile after
paying a wage.
To be honest until Vin got involved it was plodding along in a friendly manner with some decent advice,and that's my opinion.
Once again you have stated something without taking the time to check the facts.
Yes this guy would be one of the costlier cleaners in the area employs about 20 guys and his quality is rubbish yet he loses very few customers.
I have taken a few from him and they are the most hateful first cleans you could imagine frames haven't been cleaned in years
and so on.
I guarantee there's not a guy on here who doesn't know a crappy cleaner in their area who has been going for years and keeps
all or most of his customers and its nothing to do with being cheap.

[SeanK]

Smudger maybe you should get your facts right before casting stones, firstly I never attacked Vin or anybody else on this
post, nor did I accuse him of being rude.
I stated that I couldn't get £27 for a three bed semi in my area and explained as best as I could why this was, for this I was
called delusional (not by Vin ) and it went down hill from there, Vin has as much to answer for why this happened  as the two names you mentioned.
For every example you give of why it works for you there will be as many guys for which it wont work, price might not be high
on the list in your surveyed area that doesn't mean it wont be top of the list elsewhere.
You also talk about quality, well one of the biggest concerns in my area has the worst quality you have ever come across
yet only a small percentage of their customers ever move elsewhere and they not cheap either.

You also reckon it only costs £500 a year to run your business. It is part of the same mindset of small thinking which leads to low pricing.

Show me where I said it takes £500 to run a business ? and to be honest mate I have noticed over a time that my pricing isn't that far behind yours when the properties are like for like.
The difference is I don't constantly feel the need to blow about it or make out that I am some financial wiz, I done what most
do who haven't a clue when starting out, I checked out what others where charging and went with the higher amount.
I then went my own way when I got more experience and confidence.

[KS Cleaning]

Ahhh, such a pity this thread was forced down to the lowest common denominator by Sean an KS

Before taking up window cleaning I carried out a survey by knocking a few dozen roads in several villages, the result of this was a surprise most important, top of the list was reliability !!!!
Followed by..... Quality !!!! Oh yeah then came ( a long way behind about 1 in 15 ) price...   Ta daa

On this we based our biz around the first 2 - I was never scared to price well ( but fair ) that's why a four week service is just that  every 4 weeks the same day of the week every time. Or in the case of heavy rain caught up no later than 3 working days - yes that means Saturday or Sunday work.


On the above your more likely to lose custom for bad service or quality than price, my dropouts over the years have backed this up.

Vin is a great guy, and works hard at his biz, he's also passionate about ( rightly so ) some on here just can't take that, or accept points of view, I have never known vin to be rude, yet there are those who have insecurities attack him personally because they have no facts to their own argument on.

For the last 3 years we have promoted 8 wky cleans in a more positive way, I get 25 to 40% more per clean and like vin two thirds take this option  - why because these people do not want a shiney rapping on the door every month, they see it as a quality service, delivered reliably at a good price.

Those who want 4 wky are also happy, cheaper clean, more often, either way I've not had a " omg you back already " for years !!

If I started again I'd do 6 and 12 week options  - 4 wky is IMO outdated with wfp

Lastly - my van buying habits are my own ! - 

Best regards
Darran

Smudger can you please explain why you have suggested that I forced down his thread.......

[KS Cleaning]

Bump
Still waiting on your reply Smudger

[Smudger]

KS  -  I don't think calling others condescending really helped the thread do you? The perfectly reasonable example given about people not using a window cleaner solely on price was in my opinion reasonable, not silly.  The post wasn't even aimed at you,  your replies struck me as inflammatory rather than participating in what was an interesting thread.

Sean - struggling to see your point, so the windy in question does rubbish work ? Yes or No
The cleaner in question charges more than you ? Yes or No
You can't take any of his work as his customers remain loyal ?  Yes or No

Surely that backs up my survey that reliablility  is what's important to people ?

In the early days of cleaning when I canvassed I got many people not use me, they had a cleaner, most looked like they did a terrible job, one didn't even clean above head height so the top half of the windows were never cleaned this wound me up because I knew I could do better, so I asked one of these people why stick with someone who didn't clean a whole window, the answer was this

" George has been coming for years, he comes every month, it maybe a bad clean, but tries his best and a least I know I get a regular service, you new guys do one or two cleans and are never seen again "

So  quality and price have no bearing on this sort of customer

Darran

[KS Cleaning]

KS  -  I don't think calling others condescending really helped the thread do you? The perfectly reasonable example given about people not using a window cleaner solely on price was in my opinion reasonable, not silly.  The post wasn't even aimed at you,  your replies struck me as inflammatory rather than participating in what was an interesting thread.

Sean - struggling to see your point, so the windy in question does rubbish work ? Yes or No
The cleaner in question charges more than you ? Yes or No
You can't take any of his work as his customers remain loyal ?  Yes or No

Surely that backs up my survey that reliablility  is what's important to people ?

In the early days of cleaning when I canvassed I got many people not use me, they had a cleaner, most looked like they did a terrible job, one didn't even clean above head height so the top half of the windows were never cleaned this wound me up because I knew I could do better, so I asked one of these people why stick with someone who didn't clean a whole window, the answer was this

" George has been coming for years, he comes every month, it maybe a bad clean, but tries his best and a least I know I get a regular service, you new guys do one or two cleans and are never seen again "

So  quality and price have no bearing on this sort of customer

Darran

Right, for a start my first post on this thread was to say that I myself would happily pay a franchise fee and royalties if the prices mentioned (£27.00 ) were achievable in my area. Is this inflammatory or not participating? I agree that people won't choose a window cleaner solely on price. The part I didn't agree with and voiced  my opinion on was the bit about not buying the cheapest car  ( opinions are allowed aye?) as I didn't believe it had much relevance,  so I decided to make a  comment which the poster took offence to, he then tried to belittle me by putting full stops after each word.  If. someone. replied. to. you. like. this. wouldn't you find it condescending? As for the post not being aimed at me, It's an open forum is it not?

[SeanK]

KS  -  I don't think calling others condescending really helped the thread do you? The perfectly reasonable example given about people not using a window cleaner solely on price was in my opinion reasonable, not silly.  The post wasn't even aimed at you,  your replies struck me as inflammatory rather than participating in what was an interesting thread.

Sean - struggling to see your point, so the windy in question does rubbish work ? Yes or No
The cleaner in question charges more than you ? Yes or No
You can't take any of his work as his customers remain loyal ?  Yes or No

Surely that backs up my survey that reliablility  is what's important to people ?

In the early days of cleaning when I canvassed I got many people not use me, they had a cleaner, most looked like they did a terrible job, one didn't even clean above head height so the top half of the windows were never cleaned this wound me up because I knew I could do better, so I asked one of these people why stick with someone who didn't clean a whole window, the answer was this

" George has been coming for years, he comes every month, it maybe a bad clean, but tries his best and a least I know I get a regular service, you new guys do one or two cleans and are never seen again "

So  quality and price have no bearing on this sort of customer

Darran

Right, for a start my first post on this thread was to say that I myself would happily pay a franchise fee and royalties if the prices mentioned (£27.00 ) were achievable in my area. Is this inflammatory or not participating? I agree that people won't choose a window cleaner solely on price. The part I didn't agree with and voiced  my opinion on was the bit about not buying the cheapest car  ( opinions are allowed aye?) as I didn't believe it had much relevance,  so I decided to make a  comment which the poster took offence to, he then tried to belittle me by putting full stops after each word.  If. someone. replied. to. you. like. this. wouldn't you find it condescending? As for the post not being aimed at me, It's an open forum is it not?

KS, he read the last few posts on the subject and decided to have a rant without knowing the facts and how they came about, unfortunately he isn't man enough to admit this.

[KS Cleaning]

KS  -  I don't think calling others condescending really helped the thread do you? The perfectly reasonable example given about people not using a window cleaner solely on price was in my opinion reasonable, not silly.  The post wasn't even aimed at you,  your replies struck me as inflammatory rather than participating in what was an interesting thread.

Sean - struggling to see your point, so the windy in question does rubbish work ? Yes or No
The cleaner in question charges more than you ? Yes or No
You can't take any of his work as his customers remain loyal ?  Yes or No

Surely that backs up my survey that reliablility  is what's important to people ?

In the early days of cleaning when I canvassed I got many people not use me, they had a cleaner, most looked like they did a terrible job, one didn't even clean above head height so the top half of the windows were never cleaned this wound me up because I knew I could do better, so I asked one of these people why stick with someone who didn't clean a whole window, the answer was this

" George has been coming for years, he comes every month, it maybe a bad clean, but tries his best and a least I know I get a regular service, you new guys do one or two cleans and are never seen again "

So  quality and price have no bearing on this sort of customer

Darran

Right, for a start my first post on this thread was to say that I myself would happily pay a franchise fee and royalties if the prices mentioned (£27.00 ) were achievable in my area. Is this inflammatory or not participating? I agree that people won't choose a window cleaner solely on price. The part I didn't agree with and voiced  my opinion on was the bit about not buying the cheapest car  ( opinions are allowed aye?) as I didn't believe it had much relevance,  so I decided to make a  comment which the poster took offence to, he then tried to belittle me by putting full stops after each word.  If. someone. replied. to. you. like. this. wouldn't you find it condescending? As for the post not being aimed at me, It's an open forum is it not?

KS, he read the last few posts on the subject and decided to have a rant without knowing the facts and how they came about, unfortunately he isn't man enough to admit this.

Aye it would seem that way Sean,  some people like to think they're judge and jury