[TomCrowther]

Hi Sean, I appreciate your view and there is a valid argument that says if you provide the same level of service at a lower price people will change to you. But the customer is not open to change because they are happy with what they have.
In your scenario it is possible they would switch if they saw their neighbour and discussed price, level of service etc but in my experience it doesn't happen very much.
If you have a decent window cleaner who does what he promises to do in terms of clean and regularity, doesn't kick the cat, leave the gate open, Nick anything or p in the garden. Then they will keep him.

[Rich Wilts]

Sean thinks he's on the Vision thread.

Mate I know deep down that I shouldn't be arguing with these types and the sensible thing would be just to let them get
on with it.

You're right there, but to challenge is fine. The thing is though Perfect Windows likes to annoy, his responses portray that. And people take the bait. He enjoys it.

He obviously has done well in a business sense but .....

[SeanK]

Hi Sean, I appreciate your view and there is a valid argument that says if you provide the same level of service at a lower price people will change to you. But the customer is not open to change because they are happy with what they have.
In your scenario it is possible they would switch if they saw their neighbour and discussed price, level of service etc but in my experience it doesn't happen very much.
If you have a decent window cleaner who does what he promises to do in terms of clean and regularity, doesn't kick the cat, leave the gate open, Nick anything or p in the garden. Then they will keep him.

Tom if you can take customers from other shiners because you offer a better level of service then logic would dictate that
you could do the same if you could offer the same level of service but are a lot cheaper.
Again mate I'm not talking about losing customers for the sake of a fiver but at the levels these guys claim to be at there is
plenty of scope to undercut and tempt customers to move elsewhere.
Vin has priced his work so that his customers can only afford to have their windows cleaned every 12 weeks are you honestly
trying to tell me they wouldn't move if they found somebody else with a proven reputation offering a lot more cleans for the
same money.

[TomCrowther]

Hi Sean. no mate. What I am saying is the customer is no longer looking. Also, there is a percentage of people who would rather pay more because they relate higher cost to better service.

[TomCrowther]

And, the way Vin's model works. He avoids the cost conscious price buyer because his prices are on all his media. The people who want a lower price wouldn't ring him in the first place.
My prices aren't as high as those quoted but they are higher than some in my area. I got a bundle of new customers recently because one of them asked a few of their neighbours how good was their window cleaner. "He's ok" was the usual response {these are her words by the way}, she wanted a glowing reference because she and others she knew had a recent bad experience with their cleaner {no idea what}. Anyway, she contacted me from a leaflet and I got a handful of new customers, all paying considerably more than they did previously but are all literally delighted. Big smiles each time we turn up.
Sean, you obviously do a good job but lots of us don't and it's the unhappy customer who will jump ship, not the happy ones.

[Frankybadboy]

Vin

Out of interest how many customers have you lost in a year

I know you anal about these things lol

[Perfect Windows]

Vin.
I think Sean has a secret crush on you really. Sean you need to get a grip. There has not been one post on here without having a dig at people. Grow up idiot.

Mate its a forum where people debate and challenge what others say and before you get on your high horse casting stones
maybe you should find out who had the first dig at who.

Not sure if this is aimed at me but I work very hard never to attack people personally.  I may disagree with what you say but I do my best not to aim at the person.  If I've made a personal dig at you, point it out and I'll apologise.

Vin

[Perfect Windows]

Vin has priced his work so that his customers can only afford to have their windows cleaned every 12 weeks are you honestly trying to tell me they wouldn't move if they found somebody else with a proven reputation offering a lot more cleans for the same money.

Sean,

You seem to be suggesting that I'm forcing my customers to use me in some way.  They have a staggering number of choices other than me. ( https://www.google.co.uk/maps/search/window+cleaners/@50.9252096,-1.4208745,14z - and those are just the ones on the web )
 
All my work is openly priced ( http://tinyurl.com/pwprice ). They come to me willingly.  They don't have to use us, they don't have to take 12-weekly cleans if they don't want to.  Looking at the work that's come in in June so far,  we have 21 x 6-weekly and 22 x 12-weekly.   That ratio will drop over time as it's pretty much always the 6-weeklies that drop out.  Not one of those people had to phone me.  None were tied to a barrel with a gun to their ear.  All of them were free to compare prices and service levels with anyone they chose.  Whether they did that or not is not my concern.  They called us and we'll go and clean their windows until they either ask us to stop or stop paying us.

I really, genuinely, don't know why you're so upset by the way I run my business.

Vin

[robert mitchell]

I also work in southampton and can confirm that there is plenty of competition ......all my work on one estate recently was canvassed by three lads working trad and charging much much less including whole fascia cleans on a four bed semi for £25 quid but i only lost one customer .

like people have said , if you do a good job and keep turning up most people won't switch to save a few quid .

[KS Cleaning]

You're right there, but to challenge is fine. The thing is though Perfect Windows likes to annoy, his responses portray that. And people take the bait. He enjoys it.

He obviously has done well in a business sense but .....

I think that's a misreading of the situation.  I do not like to annoy.  I'm quite a forensic debater, which I understand can annoy but it's not intended to annoy.

You'll also note that I try very hard not to make personal comments about people.  If I wanted to annoy them, I would make it personal.

Vin

I don't think it's a misreading of the situation at all. If you look at your post #71, I would say he is spot on, if you don't like to annoy don't reply in such a condescending manner.

[Perfect Windows]

You're right there, but to challenge is fine. The thing is though Perfect Windows likes to annoy, his responses portray that. And people take the bait. He enjoys it.

He obviously has done well in a business sense but .....

I think that's a misreading of the situation.  I do not like to annoy.  I'm quite a forensic debater, which I understand can annoy but it's not intended to annoy.

You'll also note that I try very hard not to make personal comments about people.  If I wanted to annoy them, I would make it personal.

Vin

I don't think it's a misreading of the situation at all. If you look at your post #71, I would say he is spot on, if you don't like to annoy don't reply in such a condescending manner.

Oh dearie me.  Someone very deliberately put the rise up me.  His entire argument was "That's silly".  So I took the mick out of the poverty of his argument.  Find a post anywhere in my entire posting history where I attack someone.  I'm sure it's happened but not often and certainly not deliberately.

And I note that your post was not "Look, there's one case in this thread where Vin deliberately winds someone up".  You said "The thing is though Perfect Windows likes to annoy, his responses portray that" which is a comment on my general behaviour on here and, incidentally, a personal and inaccurate attack.

Vin

[Rich Wilts]

Who said you have to make it personal to to annoy?

[Mick Kent]

Hi Sean, I appreciate your view and there is a valid argument that says if you provide the same level of service at a lower price people will change to you. But the customer is not open to change because they are happy with what they have.
In your scenario it is possible they would switch if they saw their neighbour and discussed price, level of service etc but in my experience it doesn't happen very much.
If you have a decent window cleaner who does what he promises to do in terms of clean and regularity, doesn't kick the cat, leave the gate open, Nick anything or p in the garden. Then they will keep him.

Tom if you can take customers from other shiners because you offer a better level of service then logic would dictate that
you could do the same if you could offer the same level of service but are a lot cheaper.
Again mate I'm not talking about losing customers for the sake of a fiver but at the levels these guys claim to be at there is
plenty of scope to undercut and tempt customers to move elsewhere.
Vin has priced his work so that his customers can only afford to have their windows cleaned every 12 weeks are you honestly
trying to tell me they wouldn't move if they found somebody else with a proven reputation offering a lot more cleans for the
same money.

I think the same but when i look closer to home then why do i not lose any customers for only doing the fronts?? All my customers seem more than happy with things! Admitidly im cleaning 12 times a year and not just 4 but still im not doing a proper job as such as missing the backs out.

[8weekly]

This is a strange topic. I think the guys who don't understand why customers would pay a fifty per cent uplift to have their Windows done four times a year rather than 8.6  Times a year don't see things through the customers eyes.
A window cleaner is offering a service. Lots of people would rather have a less frequent service, done properly than a frequent poor service like they may have experienced in the past.
Customer value perception.

You have missed the point completely Tom, nobody is saying that a customer wont pay extra for a better service and cut
back on a few cleans to be able to afford it.
The point is if you are charging £27 for an excellent service could another cleaner not charge £15 for as good a service
and still make a well above average living even for the south of England, we all know they could.
So lets say Mrs x next door is getting the same level of service as you are giving but getting a lot more cleans per year for the same money, would your customer not be temped to jump ship ?
8 weekly is right most customers wont jump ship for the sake of a few quid but there has to be a point where people begin to
think hold on a minute I'm just being ripped off here.
To say that people are happy with a 12 weekly clean is just nonsense, they are happy with what they can afford and that's
no different with any of us.
These blow holes all have one thing in common, they don't seem to have any competition that can offer the same level of
service as themselves and its isn't worth while for anybody to try unless they are charging the same as they are.

I think the point that you miss is that most customers in the South East don't want a monthly service. Most are far happier with a less frequent service. So am I because I reckon if I was £9 on a three bed semi I would keep them monthly, but I'd have to work twice as hard for the same money. I decided early on to price higher and accept it would take longer to build the work up.

[Clever Forum Name]

Gotta love seank's post these days.

In a morning before I got to work I just check down the threads to see which topics Sean is on. It's great fun. 

 

PMSFL

[Perfect Windows]

Who said you have to make it personal to to annoy?

Neither of us.  But where you're wrong, you utterly retarded  gimboid, is that you seem to think that I deliberately annoy you.  I don't.  I accept that you may become annoyed because of my style of argument but it's not intended to annoy, you cretin.  It's intended to advance an argument, not annoy idiots like you.

I know that it's not intentional because I know me much better than you do.  Because (1) I'm me and (2) you're thick as pig muck..

Vin

[SeanK]

Hi Sean, I appreciate your view and there is a valid argument that says if you provide the same level of service at a lower price people will change to you. But the customer is not open to change because they are happy with what they have.
In your scenario it is possible they would switch if they saw their neighbour and discussed price, level of service etc but in my experience it doesn't happen very much.
If you have a decent window cleaner who does what he promises to do in terms of clean and regularity, doesn't kick the cat, leave the gate open, Nick anything or p in the garden. Then they will keep him.

Tom if you can take customers from other shiners because you offer a better level of service then logic would dictate that
you could do the same if you could offer the same level of service but are a lot cheaper.
Again mate I'm not talking about losing customers for the sake of a fiver but at the levels these guys claim to be at there is
plenty of scope to undercut and tempt customers to move elsewhere.
Vin has priced his work so that his customers can only afford to have their windows cleaned every 12 weeks are you honestly
trying to tell me they wouldn't move if they found somebody else with a proven reputation offering a lot more cleans for the
same money.

I think the same but when i look closer to home then why do i not lose any customers for only doing the fronts?? All my customers seem more than happy with things! Admitidly im cleaning 12 times a year and not just 4 but still im not doing a proper job as such as missing the backs out.

Its simple Mick, you offer a front for £10 so where is the room to undercut, like I have said I cant see customers jumping ship
for the sake of a fiver.
You miss the backs out because they are too much hassle so other shiners aren't going to fancy the backs either.

[ChumBucket]

..

[Mick Kent]

[Rich Wilts]

Who said you have to make it personal to to annoy?

Neither of us.  But where you're wrong, you utterly retarded  gimboid, is that you seem to think that I deliberately annoy you.  I don't.  I accept that you may become annoyed because of my style of argument but it's not intended to annoy, you cretin.  It's intended to advance an argument, not annoy idiots like you.

I know that it's not intentional because I know me much better than you do.  Because (1) I'm me and (2) you're thick as pig muck..

Vin

I didnt say you intentionally try to annoy me, I  just think you try to annoy in general,  being arrogant doesn't help. Nothing more.

Anyway, thanks for the compliments sweetheart