[Chris - CBWC]

Yes, I know, but bear with me!  7ish years of trad work that I built up from scratch on my own, a couple of back injuries has severely hampered me over the last 18 months, to the point where I may well be done with hauling myself up ladders (though I'm only 32!), or it will take longer to fully recover (no longer viable, financially) due to the muscles being constantly in use walking up and down ladders.  I'm loathe to give up on my round (I've already reduced my round down to what I hoped would be a more manageable level) and love working outside and being self-employed, so while being forced to switch to WFP, I also want to embrace it.  I'm looking at WFP for tops, trad bottoms while I get used to it and get up to speed.

So, on a minimum budget (I'm already sweet talking a family member) and needing to be set up as quickly as possible to be able to get working again, specific advice is needed:

I currently use a Renault Clio hatchback for my two ladders (an extendable aluminium for first floor, 6ft single for ground) which I need to somehow use for a backpack system.  I suspect this may not be possible - standard car boot only half opens due to the long ladder.  I could leave the large ladder at home meaning the boot will fully open.  Or maybe put the backpack on the front passenger seat!  It's a 3-door btw.

I've read about Partners and Berlingos on here, but £1k+ for a van will be the next step once I can prove I'm up to the task of WFP, health-wise.

I found a mention of the WCW Backpack starter kit at http://www.windowcleaningwarehouse.co.uk/shop/index.php?option=com_aceshop&route=product/product&path=131_248&product_id=1377, which is pricey but it'll arrive next week and I'm good to go, though I don't know a thing about the various products within the kit.  I have an excellent customer base and get on with them very well, and will explain to them about WFP and why I've changed so I need my equipment to allow me to do a good job at a cheap price for now.  I know the Gardiner brushes and CLX poles are highly recommended, but again, that's an upgrade for a later date - I'm looking at the urgency of working more regularly and consistently ASAP versus waiting any longer for something more.

It comes with 4 drums, which obviously won't all fit in the car, but remember I'm only doing a few houses a day at the moment, and WFP will be tops only.  My work is also very close to home so if I do manage to empty one or two drums, I can go home and change the drums over - this may be simplifying things somewhat, as Surrey is a hard water area.  No I do not yet know what the TDS is, there is a TDS meter reader with the starter kit above!

This means I'll need an ro unit, which doesn't appear to come with the starter kit, so I'll need a good one from somewhere, recommendations links and prices most welcome.  And I've been searching for some sort of guide of how to put it all together without finding one, but it's ok, the starter kit comes with a DVD.... 

Have I forgotten anything?

Thanks for reading, and thank you for your help

[SeanK]

CBWC if your having back problems then a backpack and drums wont solve your
problem too much weight.
You will need a built in tank which you then can run a hose from so to cut out any lifting.
As for poles you wont get anything cheaper than a Gardiner CLX so you will need to
make your own.
You can buy a harris pole in B+Q for about £18 and convert it.
Videos on youtube will show you how.
Your best bet might be a trailer with a diy system if you can get one on the cheap.

[Michael Peterson]

7 years self employed and a limited budget, you must be doing something wrong mate? i dont think your in the right profession

[Chris - CBWC]

7 years self employed and a limited budget, you must be doing something wrong mate? i dont think your in the right profession

First sentence: "...severely hampered me over the last 18 months...".  In case anyone else doesn't assume it, I'll put my 'Captain Obvious' hat on - that's a long time to have little money coming in, everyone's circumstances are different, I'd put "etc" but Captain Obvious would never say that!

[matthewprice]

I was in a similar circumstance to your self mostly knees and a bit lower back wfp is still physical is there someone you could do e week with before you spend

[Clever Forum Name]

Unless you get a really decent set-up wfp will be worse for lower back pains.

Lugging a hose reel in and out or a trolley system is no fun for lower back pains.

I should know i fell off a roof and paid the penalty!

Unless you can buy decent gear i think you will be worse off.

You cant be using heavy poles/reel/barrels with back pain.

[DG Cleaning]

Got to agree with the others.
You need a van with a tank in it.
Beg borrow or steal to get one.
If your backs bad now what will it be like lugging 25 litre barrels about?
My set up with Harris pole was less than £500

[Fin Clearview]

After 13 lucky years trad it's surprising how easy it is to work with the ladder, carried well it becoming almost weightless, you get up to your window and just move your arms about. Since going to WFP I would argue it may sometimes seem 'easier' to use ladders. I think it's an easy assumption to think WFP is a walk in the park.

[windymiller]

If you got a bad back you are in the wrong business as it wont get any easier as you get older. Window cleaning you need to be physically fit  

[James Bulton]

Unless you get a really decent set-up wfp will be worse for lower back pains.

Lugging a hose reel in and out or a trolley system is no fun for lower back pains.

I should know i fell off a roof and paid the penalty!

Unless you can buy decent gear i think you will be worse off.

You cant be using heavy poles/reel/barrels with back pain.

poop

[Clever Forum Name]

Unless you get a really decent set-up wfp will be worse for lower back pains.

Lugging a hose reel in and out or a trolley system is no fun for lower back pains.

I should know i fell off a roof and paid the penalty!

Unless you can buy decent gear i think you will be worse off.

You cant be using heavy poles/reel/barrels with back pain.

poop

Let me re phrase that then.

After changing From heavy gear to lighter gear my back pain eased within days.

[Chris - CBWC]

Thanks guys.  With my back pain I should be more specific - day to day it doesn't hurt, it's only physically walking up and down the ladder that was causing me the pain and I don't have any problems carrying or lifting, including my 20kg ladder and no problems extending it.  Maybe it's only a minor problem but I'm not earning enough and WFP is the best way to earn more.

I'm looking at Citroen Berlingos local to me and am looking at the Pure Freedom DIY kit http://www.purefreedom.co.uk/pure-freedom-diy-water-fed-pole-kit-for-mediumhard-water-areas-p-295.html - lots say they're great, a few have said otherwise, but I really don't know what it is I would need:

Brush type: 11" Oval, 12" Rectangle, Soft Sill Brush, Stiff Sill Brush - I'm thinking the 12" rectangle, surely the angle should be adjustable so it can clean the sills as well?

RO System: will this depend on the water tank size?  In which case a 200 or 300 GPD would suffice

Pole type: I think the HXTEL 05200 V2 21 reach is enough - just first floor and gutters so this is enough?  Is it heavy?

Tank size: 250L I think, upright or flat though?  Does it matter in a Berlingo or similar sized van?  How do you refill the tank from the mains if you don't have a separate storage tank and transfer kit?

Flowmaster type: Standard or Charging version?  I don't think the Radio Remote is necessary

DI Filter: now this I can't pick - ranges from 10"-35", 0.7L-25L - based on what I/you think, what is required?

Extras
====
- Pole flow control valve: unless I've misunderstood, many have said how useful this is so I should include it?
- RO Booster Pump: a mains powered booster pump - as my RO system will be in my van, this would be pointless!
- Transfer pump kit: I won't be producing pure water in a storage tank to transfer to my van at a later date so don't need this either!
- 12v 85Ah Deep Cycle Battery: needs charging after every use - is this instead of using the vehicle battery?
- Battery charger: ah!
- Protecta-Kote Kit: not necessary

[SeanK]

Don't go near a HXTEL pole or you will end up with shoulder and elbow pain worse
than your back pain.
Go for a CLX its around the same price and 100 times better.
I used to use a HXTEL back in the bad old days.

[Chris - CBWC]

Thanks Sean, I'll get the pole and brush directly from Gardiner, and looking at the price of the kit from PureFreedom, it may be better sourcing second hand parts for my first build.  Looking at the Gardiner site, the CLX-22 would be great for first floor windows but will this be long enough to do the first floor windows over a conservatory?  Maybe the CLX27 would be more sensible, I do some houses with a much lower back garden, therefore their first floor windows are much higher, out of reach of my 11ft ladder currently, so would be great to be able to do those, and I can put the price up

Any recommendations on the type of LoQ Gooseneck, brush, fanjets vs pencil jets, pole hose and hose connector type?  Sometimes there's just too much choice...

[Clever Forum Name]

Go for a Gardiner sill brush with pencil jets.

Buy the quick loqs

yellow gardiner pole hose

buy the clx 27 and take of the bottom two sections when not in use. (make sure you order a section 4 or 5 base cap)

Use the easy snap connectors or the QR fittings

[Chris - CBWC]

OK I've been busy filling out my Gardiner cart, with regards to the van mount, would something like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Affordable-Professional-Window-Cleaning-Systems-Self-Install-Wfp-System-/301014542165?pt=UK_HomeGarden_CLV_Cleaning_CA&hash=item4615dd6755 be suitable for a Berlingo i.e. no side doors?  This way I wouldn't have to source all the parts separately

[Clever Forum Name]

I dont think you could beat that price tbh, considering you get a 40/40 as well.

Only thing is, you would need to check it fits in length ways. AS not a 100% on whether a 400 upright will fit. I think it will

[Chris - CBWC]

Thank you, feels like substantial progress already   I've contacted them about the dimensions, but was thinking I could ask if they would do a similar package for a 400L flat, or maybe 350L flat.  I'd need to think about the room for the poles, hose, reel and any other bits and bobs so if I'm tight for space what would be a good bigger van?  So many have recommended the Berlingo and the Partner that I didn't consider a standard one man system not fitting 

[Clever Forum Name]

Berlingo,dispatch,partner will be ideal if you dont want to spend lots.

Dont be put off with the 400L system. Its quite unique, in the fact its very wide 1250mm the 350L version is only 990MM wide

Having had several vans with uprights and flats, my advice would be a 120% upright! Best for space etc.

If you decide on a flat, do it properly and get something built on top so you don't waste got knows how much space!

[Clever Forum Name]

If you view my videos here

http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=179329.0

it will give you an idea of a 350 upright. Similar sized vans