[Tom White]

You treat people realy well and most of them will poop on you! Fact.

I don't think that is a fact, in fact, I think the opposite is true.  As a very general rule of thumb, I think people treat us how we deserve to be treated.

And Richie may feel some superficial smugness that he 'threw his employee about', but deep down he knows it was wrong, and he knows he lacks control of himself.  

And if he can't even control himself, how the heck does he think he's going to 'control' his employees.

if that's the cace then when people get muged they deserve to be treated that way? Plenty of people get miss treated all over the world and do they all deserve it? So back to my bit saying if you are to soft you will get mugged of is a fact. Not by everyone but there will always be someone who will take the p so keep your gaurd up and act like everyone who works for you could potentially be mugging you of. Be one step ahead of the crap imo

If you try reading my post a little more carefully, you will see that the second sentence begins with "As a very general rule of thumb...".

[gary999]

why did you put this post up if you didnt want opinions
maybe it was just a cry for sympathy to justify your
actions dont get me wrong im not slagging you off we all have
courted opinion in life at some point to suit our needs.

but in this instance you made a bad situation worse.the business
is yours the buck starts and ends with you. present whatever
mitigating evidence you like but nothing will change that fact

accept the fact and you will have a better chance of resolving
this issue sensibly which will either will involve you moving forward
with this chap as a employee or being a parting of ways

afterall not only do you bear the brunt of responsibility for
your business you also make the ground rules that your employees
have to abide by

[gary999]

getting slapped is not one of them
 

[richywilts]

paul coleman why u writing silly reply then deleting it??

i never put it up here to get any sympathy at all i thought i would share it as i honestly thought others may have been in similar situations with employees, people can slag me off and disagree with me all they like im a big boy and it really doesnt bother me the pee taking each to there own opinion why do u think il post problems on here

ive gave written warning etc and tried to do things down the legal path etc and kicked off at these over other things now i may or i may not have done right thing time will tell but now all three know not to mess with me coz i will flip if they put a foot wrong n take me for a mug

[gewindows]

Did you have a break-in at your lockup Richy at some time in the past or was that someone else?

[richywilts]

yeah ive had two mate

[Tom White]

i may not have done right thing time will tell but now all three know not to mess with me coz i will flip if they put a foot wrong n take me for a mug

You know very little about human behaviour.  I've been no angel throughout my life, but every time I was caught and punished for something - do you think that this modified my behaviour in a positive way?

Nope!  All it made me do was become smarter so I didn't get caught again.

[Sarcasm on]And what a positive working environment you're creating too![Sarcasm Off]  I bet these guys really want to work hard for you.

[Tom White]

Good post ^^^^.

so possibly a waste of time me or anyone else posting on this

No, I don't think you can know that for sure; maybe you're planting a seed of information in his head (though I'm guessing the soil isn't very fertile there).  But even if it doesn't help Richie, it may help someone else who is more receptive to good information.

[Danny Guest]

Rich
As a leader you don't seem to have controlled this guy. It may be a weakness on your behalf as he's a friend but it detrimental to the business.

Once one takes the p it sets the precident for the rest. You should come down hard on this guy and make an example for the rest of your staff. Don't try to balance friendship and business. I employ family and I have to in a way set myself away from the pack. It's sometimes lonely but effective.

Danny

[paul13]

yeah ive had two mate

Have you considered past or present employee ?
 

[spongebob]

ive not posted the whole background to my friendship with this lad etc and how ive helped him out a lot in life and tried to support him when he has had tough times basically when i employed him having worked fitting upvc fascias etc i found him to be a hard worker with manuals skills, punctual and reliable. he was walking rnd homeless with two bin bags when i seen him etc so i offered him a lift and said you can come and work with me doing some roof coating jobs we had on then began introducing him to window cleaning etc

even during difficult times financially i always kept him on etc and found him things to do even thru th big freeze we had two years back, ive even bought him his provisional driving licence to try and encourage him to get his driving licence and offered him use of van at weekends to use for him and his daughter

theres a lot more too it than him just being my employee so this is why i was so annoyed that he disobeyed me when ive done notin but bend over backwards to help him in past so yes i took it a bit personal when i attacked him the other day

Richy, you can justify it any way you like, but there's no justification for your behaviour.  We just don't go attacking people.  How difficult is that to understand?  No 'ifs', no 'buts'.

You're not a dog are you?  Actually, even my dog has restraint and can control himself.

And what Matt said; you have played a huge part in all this - the problems aren't external; they're internal.  I think you're immature; maybe you'll mature one-day and take responsibility for yourself and stop blaming other folk.

how have i played a part in him taking me for a mug and skiving taking the p*ss tosh i instructed an employee to carry out a task which wasnt done yet i get the blame he mugged me off end of n got caught ya making out as if i go round hitting everyone all the time over anything if it was just the sitting off for 25 minutes id of accepted that and said dont let me catch u doing that again, but then lying on the phone too me and then going back the unit 35 mins early or watever it is was too much he took the p*ss bigtime

You have played a massive part. It was you who rescued him from the gutter but that doesnt make him a model employee!
I would suggest you keep your christian spirit for the soup kitchen volunteer work and your interview process completely seperate and you may not end up in this mess.

A suggestion might be that you give them a fixed amount of pay for a fixed amount of work and let them know you will audit 10% of their work randomly. If they are sat on their asses doing nothing having achieved their target you will be a lot less stressed. Is it that you are being too greedy with what you expect them to earn for you?
If so it then leads you to get annoyed when their brushes aren't on the glass.
If everything you post about your different problems on here is true, it is hard to believe you can make window cleaning so difficult.
You always seem to be getting bogged down with all the detail of 'what' has happened instead of dealing with 'why' it is happening.
You always have an issue with staff and sales people that you have employed.
A lot of well meaning people on here have given you advice but it seems you don't want to listen.
The situations you get yourself into must be having an effect on your health and wellbeing and you need to review your firms structure in my opinion.
Maybe find someone to run the business and expand it while you simply take the position of an employee. happy cleaning glass day to day, possibly canvassing and watching the money roll in with no stress. Use one of the other guys who know you (gav cam) etc to help you interview for the right person. Someone who is maybe early retired and will work part time. Prepares your work lists, does all the office paperwork, mailshots commercial work etc etc. You have a couple of meetings each week with them but daily just pick up your list like the other guys.
I have never met you but you dont seem like a natural born leader of men or someone to run a company in a structured way either. I am not suggesting that myself or others responding here are any better but we do not go through the same crap you seem to, or feel the need to tell all on here.
 

[Frankybadboy]

spongebob


hows that knee.??had the op.


think you have seems you got so much time to write that lot 

[rosskesava]

Somehow, this story of the employee/friend/ex down and out or who ever he is or was and what happened starts out simple. Then bit by bit more elements of the story come out and each time, it seems to make the situation more convoluted or is it involuted.

With each bit of advice given or with each comment made, Ritchy then gives a bit more information untill it's all so complex rather like a riddle within a riddle within a muddle.

The answer to Ritchy's problems are simple but in my view, Ritchy seems to wants problems that can't be solved, that are not his making or responsibility, where he is the victim, and this situation is one more of those.

[Tom White]

I don't think the main issue is that Richy's employee was skiving and lying; heck, we've all skived and lied at some stage or other; well okay, I can't speak for you lot, but I can for myself.  Richy's employee deserves action taken against him for doing what he did.

The problem was that Richy 'threw his employee about'.  If we harm someone out of anger, we may feel some superficial satisfaction, but deep down we know it was wrong. The result is that our confidence will be undermined. How?  Well, if we can't control ourselves, what can we control?

And the situation was the result of fear.  Richy makes himself sound like the 'hard man', but he did what he did because he was frightened.  He was frightened that that his employee was taking the mick out of him, he was frightened because of what others thought of him.  He was frightened that he's 'not man enough' to control his employees.  That's what really annoyed Rich, IMO, and that's why he got aggressive.

Rich is pushed around by his fear - he has little control of himself; hence he did what he did.

Well, those are my thoughts; I'm not a mind reader, but I think I've got a fairly good grasp on human nature.

[CLEANCARE WC]

I don't think the main issue is that Richy's employee was skiving and lying; heck, we've all skived and lied at some stage or other; well okay, I can't speak for you lot, but I can for myself.  Richy's employee deserves action taken against him for doing what he did.

The problem was that Richy 'threw his employee about'.  If we harm someone out of anger, we may feel some superficial satisfaction, but deep down we know it was wrong. The result is that our confidence will be undermined. How?  Well, if we can't control ourselves, what can we control?

And the situation was the result of fear.  Richy makes himself sound like the 'hard man', but he did what he did because he was frightened.  He was frightened that that his employee was taking the mick out of him, he was frightened because of what others thought of him.  He was frightened that he's 'not man enough' to control his employees.  That's what really annoyed Rich, IMO, and that's why he got aggressive.

Rich is pushed around by his fear - he has little control of himself; hence he did what he did.

Well, those are my thoughts; I'm not a mind reader, but I think I've got a fairly good grasp on human nature.

Quite insightful

[gewindows]

It's an understanding of the basic human condition of 'being'. How else do the majority of people respond when they're frightened? (Get out the party streamers and celebrate?, nope. They 'react', badly). It's the recognising he's frightened that is Richys problem. 'Men' don't do frightened. That's for sissys.

If Richy can't own the fact he's scared he just as well be a one man band.

[gewindows]

If he can own his fear first he needs to believe a 'power greater than himself' can restore him to sanity. He needs to be willing to turn his will and his life over to this new found god.

He also needs to be prepared to go to any lengths be willing to change and ask god to remove his mania.

He'll also need to go back to this guy and grovel forgiveness. Once he's done that he needs to continue to assess himself in a spiritual sense on a daily basis and to go back and say sorry again if he f***s the guy over again. Then he needs to adopt a budda-like manner of living, praying and meditating. Finally he needs to drag this fellas sorry ass in off the street and pass on his new found lifestyle onto him even when he doesn't want it.

It is then and only then that Richy Wilts will be in a position to employ another human being.

;-)

[richywilts]

Rich
As a leader you don't seem to have controlled this guy. It may be a weakness on your behalf as he's a friend but it detrimental to the business.

Once one takes the p it sets the precident for the rest. You should come down hard on this guy and make an example for the rest of your staff. Don't try to balance friendship and business. I employ family and I have to in a way set myself away from the pack. It's sometimes lonely but effective.

Danny

everyones going on as if i cant control him etc hes under control but what im guessing is coz hes skint and lives day by day getting by i think some days where there getting thru the work quickly and possibly getting a few not todays by customers etc and theyre hitting 250s only for days total that he saying lets sit around and go bk so theyre still getting full days pay they all know who the boss is etc but he can be like a disease and breathes negativity on to others

having spoken to our circle of friends etc from when we used to drink in the pub together a lot of them have laughed about it and said he is a proper tool and prob deserved it coz he is a strange character they all aid its why he doesnt socialise and have friends coz no one can put up with him he a bit of a loner coz of his personality

[Moderator David@stives]

Hi Rich

They are not there to be hit, if they are not doing there job properly, that's because you are allowing it to happen.


I would look at a man management course to get the best out of your employees, or at least go to Waterstones and look at the books in the business section

Here's an article which somes up some points of managing people

http://davidmaister.com/articles/1/39/

[windowcleaninginessex.co.uk]

You man management skills are zero, you deserve all you get, you are lucky he didn't lump you.
What I don't understand is,  there was 2 guys in van, why pick and threaten only 1 of them, surely they were both sitting around