[mikecam]

 I know I'll get flamed for it and told that you can prove anything with statistics, but how can you make decisions without facts?  

Cue Rain Man comments.

I'd only take issue with that fact that average means average. Median and all the rest of it is a complicated way of explaining a 'typical' wage 

[Smudger]

god it's hard to keep up with this thread & side orders of equipment sales as well !  

It's interesting to note peoples attitude to 'employee's' - i wonder how many would take these comments if they were
the employee themselves   - a good employee is worth their weight in gold

Pure i commend you on a fine wage structure - i have filed this for future use  

Darran

[richywilts]

He's not going to be doing whole round on his own obviously most of domestic for now coz I want to reorganise it all into 30 different rounds for each day of six weekly and compact each area and have set schedules for each days work which we do every six weeks at present we just have areas which we go at whatever way we feel which is no good

[William McCafferty]

god it's hard to keep up with this thread & side orders of equipment sales as well !  

It's interesting to note peoples attitude to 'employee's' - i wonder how many would take these comments if they were
the employee themselves   - a good employee is worth their weight in gold

Pure i commend you on a fine wage structure - i have filed this for future use  

Darran
[/quote

it one of my rules, treat others on how you would like to be treated.  Also in all my jobs I have had, the biggest gripes has alway been about conditions and wages.

when I have worked for employers who look after their staff, well, you do notice the difference to the others who don't like working theirs.

[mikecam]

It's interesting to note peoples attitude to 'employee's' - i wonder how many would take these comments if they were
the employee themselves   - a good employee is worth their weight in gold

I thought this too. I liked richys previous take on employees and helping out the community !!!.....
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=145846.msg1201607#msg1201607
im confiedent i can rebuild the work up to where it was with better quality work this is a cheap alternative to employing whilst also giving back to community and doing my bit .

its an idea like i did highlight in the post

if i cud have two lads cleaning 350-400 a day and only paying 90quid tats good business sense and if it was a success and i employed another apprentice to go out with me ya getting 700 a day cleaned and only paying out 120-130 a day in wages for window cleaning

I wonder why everyones leaving when he's so helpfull and giving to the community?
And then the rest advising on how not to pay when its quiet and no work etc... complete shysters the lot of them !! I suppose you get what you pay for, and thats only if you can manage even that !!!
I'll bet this threads been read many times with a big grin 

[richywilts]

So what do you all pay your employees??? I thought 18000 was a pretty decent wage

At the minute a lot of my work is made up of messers ok he may be cleaning 250 a day but its a ball ache getting paid from them, this is why I want to spend time refining with better quality work in nicer areas

Most window cleaning employees I know don't earn answer near that lets look at my local competition

40-45 quid a day 8-4 each day 4.30-8 collecting this is from the employees mouths I don't know if that's taxable or cash in hand

[Perfect Windows]

 I know I'll get flamed for it and told that you can prove anything with statistics, but how can you make decisions without facts?  

Cue Rain Man comments.

I'd only take issue with that fact that average means average. Median and all the rest of it is a complicated way of explaining a 'typical' wage 

This is where you're being misled and why people think that statistics can lie.

When someone says "average" most people automatically relate it to the "arithmetic mean" which is the sum of all the salaries divided by the number of people.  This is indeed an average, but it's not the average.

Unfortunately, "median" (as above) and "mode" (most common salary) are all legitimately referred to as "average".  The word "average" refers to all three.

That's why you'll get a manager in a big firm saying the average salary in this firm is £25K(so your salaries are OK) and a union leader saying it's £30K (so our salaries need to go up) and they can both be telling the truth.

"Average" is not equivalent to "mean"!

Don't take my word for it:

From Wikipedia antry for average "Many different descriptive statistics can be chosen as a measure of the central tendency of the data items. These include the arithmetic mean, the median, and the mode."

From Wiktionary: "The term average may refer to the statistical mean, median or mode of a batch".

Seriously, it's one of the most misused words in politics.  Always wonder what someone really means if they just use the catch-all word "average".

Vin

[Perfect Windows]

Sorry for the hijack...

[richywilts]

No probs

[mikecam]

So what do you all pay your employees??? I thought 18000 was a pretty decent wage

18k is a decent wage.

At the minute a lot of my work is made up of messers ok he may be cleaning 250 a day but its a ball ache getting paid from them, this is why I want to spend time refining with better quality work in nicer areas

Thats all your problem not his, you're the employer.

Most window cleaning employees I know don't earn answer near that lets look at my local competition

40-45 quid a day 8-4 each day 4.30-8 collecting this is from the employees mouths I don't know if that's taxable or cash in hand

What sort of person works from 8am and finished collecting at 8pm for 40-45 quid a day? Would you want that sort of person working for you?
Man up and manage your operation. Tell him he's on £350 a week and make sure you keep him busy, or he can sling his hook. If he wants more then get some Saturday work for him.Whats to do with ya? And start looking for a possible replacement if thats what he might do.

[mikecam]

This is where you're being misled and why people think that statistics can lie.

When someone says "average" most people automatically relate it to the "arithmetic mean" which is the sum of all the salaries divided by the number of people.  This is indeed an average, but it's not the average.

Unfortunately, "median" (as above) and "mode" (most common salary) are all legitimately referred to as "average".  The word "average" refers to all three.

That's why you'll get a manager in a big firm saying the average salary in this firm is £25K(so your salaries are OK) and a union leader saying it's £30K (so our salaries need to go up) and they can both be telling the truth.

"Average" is not equivalent to "mean"!

Don't take my word for it:

From Wikipedia antry for average "Many different descriptive statistics can be chosen as a measure of the central tendency of the data items. These include the arithmetic mean, the median, and the mode."

From Wiktionary: "The term average may refer to the statistical mean, median or mode of a batch".

Seriously, it's one of the most misused words in politics.  Always wonder what someone really means if they just use the catch-all word "average".

Vin

You're complicating it !! Average means.........
   
The result obtained by adding several quantities together and then dividing this total by the number of quantities; the mean.

Typical means usual, expected, the norm etc.....

[William McCafferty]

richy

If you are having problems with customers not paying or messing you about, then you need to deal with these first.

Forget about employing at the moment, give notice to all your customers that payment is require after each clean and certainly before the next one is due.

Any who don't want to play by the rules, DUMP.

I never collect, I phone/text the night before and the customer leaves the payment, in some secure place we only know about.

If they try and say not this time, then remind them nicely that you are a full time cleaner not a fly by the night, and if they don' t require a regular cleaner then you are willing to put them on the one-off customer list, and I CHARGE a minimum of £50 for these customers.

It might sound hard but it does work, after a year of doing this you will have a smaller round, but all the customers will be golden ones, build a rep in the area that you are the best.

You can then start to build on what you have, remember a customer who doesn't pay or have their windows cleaned when they are supposed too, are really not customers.

I can get a mulit million pound turnover on customers who won't pay me. but I like my smaller round because they do.

[richywilts]

That's the plan pure what I'm going to begin doing,when I had the four staff we were scared to dump to many with fear of having to let people go, and when we did dump or lose some they weren't being replaced by sales manager guy,

I'm standing up to the plate now and thinking of myself for a change and building the business for me if he don't want 18grand then he can go n il take all my cream work n cut bk to 4 days a week n have long weekends with family

[William McCafferty]

you are also looking for commercia

what you could do is sub-contract some of this to local good cleaners, this way you earn while doing a little bit of paperwork each month and it builds your business turnover up

so when you reach the level where you can afford staff wages of £20k you stop subbing the work out and do the cleaning yourself with your new workforce.

Remember too take it slowly, its all well and good getting all the work in, but stupid if you fsil when it comes to servicing it, because its a lot easier to lose it than getting it.

also don't try looking for loopholes around everything, if a lot of people put as much energy into doing it correctly in the first place rather than trying to beat the system, they would be very rich and sucessfull

[Perfect Windows]

You're complicating it !! Average means.........
   
The result obtained by adding several quantities together and then dividing this total by the number of quantities; the mean.

Typical means usual, expected, the norm etc.....

Believe what you want and keep on misunderstanding many of the statistics you hear bandied about.  Take average to mean exactly what you want.  Put a plastic bucket over your head.  Go to Grimsby on holiday.  I really don't care.  I've seen too much selective cutting and pasting like yours above to be interested in prolonging a pointless argument.

Vin

[keyser soze]

i think you should pay him 99 per cent cause he sounds like a nice guy,

[Nameless Drudge]

 Right.

 This forum has all the best advice you need.

You are continually given it but continue with one folly after another.

I don`t think its you,its who you are closely surrounded by,somebody holds too much influence and i suspect its the pen pushing freeloader.Maybe it is you.  Someone ,either you or somebody else needs a severe beating,the biggest rollocking of their lives.This scenario of yours  is painful to observe.
 Bottom line is that all your problems stem from the fact that the business is top heavy,the people to dump are you and your pal or turn yourself into workers then when you`ve established £700-£1000 of good paying work a week each  you can employ.


Your canvasser(sales manager!) has had your pants down bigstyle,
ALSO anyone thats had a pound out of your pocket without cleaning a window for it.

Canvasser,monkeys off the dole paid peanuts to clean the  work produced means you are a crap window cleaning outfit and deserve to fail.

[Smudger]

Canvasser,monkeys off the dole paid peanuts to clean the  work produced means you are a crap window cleaning outfit and deserve to fail.

oooooooooooooooooooooooooouch !

[Small but perfectley formed]

If someone would earn me 250-260 a day i would be over the moon to pay £100

[trevor perry]

If someone would earn me 250-260 a day i would be over the moon to pay £100

my thoughts exactly