[Perfect Windows]

18k a year is sod all, if i was he i would leave set up on my own and take as many custys as i could get with me

EXACTLY!  £18K is not enough to keep anyone with half a brain. The national average wage is £26K.

come on averages mean nothing that takes all the mega money wages into consideration which tops up the lower incomes its a load of rubbish.

Not quite so and very relevant to this question:

"Average" is a much misused word, as it can mean one of three things, mean, median and mode.  So, when someone says "average" you need to be VERY sure which one they are using.

Probably the most relevant one to use when looking at salaries is the median salary (unless you're a union leader trying to get your guys up to the "UK average", in which case use the mean, but don't tell anyone, as it'll help your case no end).  The median is the amount where if you line up all the people in a sample in order of salary, it would be the midpoint.  Or, to put it another way, it is the sum whereby half of all the sample earn more and half earn less.  That gets rid of the skew you're mentioning above, Cleancare, as someone earning even a hundred billion a year (to be daft) would have no more effect on the median than someone earning ten pence more than the median.  

And the relevant figures are:

Median income for all employees in the UK is £21K.  £18K would put 60% of people earning more than you, 40% less.  So, possibly not too bad a figure.

However, median income for all employees in full time employment in the UK is £26K.  In that line up, £18K would put 75% of people earning more than you and only 25% earning less.  Which makes for a different story, perhaps.

and, finally, median income for a male in full time employment is £28K.  Then £18K would put around 82% of people earning more than you and 18% earning less.  Which makes for a VERY different story indeed.

All figures from the Office for National Statistics.  All figures for 2011.

So, Richy, to put it simply, at £18K, your guy is earning less cash than 82% of the UK male population in full-time employment.  If that helps you make an informed decision, all to the good.  There isn't a breakdown for skilled/unskilled, so you might think that's OK.

Sorry for the detail, but it's important.  I know I'll get flamed for it and told that you can prove anything with statistics, but how can you make decisions without facts?  

Cue Rain Man comments.

Vin

[spongebob]

First of all, Richy needs to have in place a correctly worded contract of employment, they normally cost between £600 and £1000 depending on who does it and what you want in it.

Part of this contract would cover wages and hours of work, any employee who wants to question their wage would be pointed to the relevant paragraph.

Good staff are like rocking horse poop, and if you find one then try and keep them, but being strong armed is not the right way to go, because once he gets away with it, how long before he comes back to the table with more amendments to his contract of employment.

I use to pay my staff a daily rate, but I found that this was a unfair method for me and my staff, for instance if they cannot work due to breakdown or weather, then they never got paid. this is ok in the summer but come winter, they end up losing.

You have to think of them as well as your profits, they need to earn a certain amount to live, if they don't work and get paid for 1 day a week, it doesn't mean that their living costs drops by the same amount.

So now I pay all my staff a salary wage, this is set at the minimum wage of £6.08 times by 44 hours a week (this is was what my HR company say I needed to do) = £267.52 or £1160 a month.

If they cannot work because of bad weather then they still have a wage at the end of the month, that they can budget too, if there is a breakdown, well they can drop leaflets or doorknock, instead of cleaning.

Of course if you the boss are making a fortune from your staff, then they are more likely to either leave or their quality of workmanship will drop, so I also offer bonuses.

These are paid out on what they have done in the previous month, so even if they have lost a day or two in the month because of whatever reason, they still have the chance to catch up with the workload.

At the moment I set the wage bill with bonuses and employers taxes and costs at a third of my turnover.

I think this is a fair way for me and my staff, but if I still had someone who wanted more, then its the highway for him/her.

good post mate thanks

what sort of bonus structure do you have in place

he was quite happy working 8-5 every day on £7, now the lad who has left has gone into a cash in hand traditional job n gets 40% of what they do i think its made andy think what he could be earning but its totally unrealistic with my overheads

He was happy with only that much when you took him on. He was part of a team though with others to share the work load. Now you only have him on the tools and expect him to turnover his wages , your wages and company overheads.
In the same way you shouldn't have to explain your costs to him, he shouldnt have to carry the burden of keeping you afloat single handedly. Your massive overheads are not his problem. If he brings in £250 a day and you pay him £70 or less then he is earning your company £180.00 a day.
BUT... there is no company now. Just you and he must think as others have said that you are doing nothing to deserve it.
Also you mention that when you had your break- ins you lost a huge customer list. How much of your round is written down or listed on one of the software programs that you don't know about. This employee is the ONLY thing that is keeping you in business right now. If he walks you have to get off CIU, stop the big ideas and program your work in and go out and clean. Pay him more to do more. Perhaps you could go out and clean together. get the work done done by 2 each day and spend time getting the rounds sorted, admin done, leafleting etc. Involve yourself and grab back your business before its too late. He may be less resentful if you are involved in the money making. If he left how could you teach someone new if you don't know where half the work is.
There are many on here who would kill for a round like yours but you are about to throw it all away.
Stop spending all your time on here and rebuild your business now. As others have said , no fancy ideas.  Splish splosh show us the dosh.

[Window Washers]

18k a year is sod all, if i was he i would leave set up on my own and take as many custys as i could get with me

EXACTLY!  £18K is not enough to keep anyone with half a brain. The national average wage is £26K.

come on averages mean nothing that takes all the mega money wages into consideration which tops up the lower incomes its a load of rubbish.

Not quite so and very relevant to this question:

"Average" is a much misused word, as it can mean one of three things, mean, median and mode.  So, when someone says "average" you need to be VERY sure which one they are using.

Probably the most relevant one to use when looking at salaries is the median salary (unless you're a union leader trying to get your guys up to the "UK average", in which case use the mean, but don't tell anyone, as it'll help your case no end).  The median is the amount where if you line up all the people in a sample in order of salary, it would be the midpoint.  Or, to put it another way, it is the sum whereby half of all the sample earn more and half earn less.  That gets rid of the skew you're mentioning above, Cleancare, as someone earning even a hundred billion a year (to be daft) would have no more effect on the median than someone earning ten pence more than the median.  

And the relevant figures are:

Median income for all employees in the UK is £21K.  £18K would put 60% of people earning more than you, 40% less.  So, possibly not too bad a figure.

However, median income for all employees in full time employment in the UK is £26K.  In that line up, £18K would put 75% of people earning more than you and only 25% earning less.  Which makes for a different story, perhaps.

and, finally, median income for a male in full time employment is £28K.  Then £18K would put around 82% of people earning more than you and 18% earning less.  Which makes for a VERY different story indeed.

All figures from the Office for National Statistics.  All figures for 2011.

So, Richy, to put it simply, at £18K, your guy is earning less cash than 82% of the UK male population in full-time employment.  If that helps you make an informed decision, all to the good.  There isn't a breakdown for skilled/unskilled, so you might think that's OK.

Sorry for the detail, but it's important.  I know I'll get flamed for it and told that you can prove anything with statistics, but how can you make decisions without facts?  

Cue Rain Man comments.

Vin

Vin, i must be getting old as I thought that was quite interesting.

But I still can't see this being a true figure for the uk workers sorry.

do you have 7 pairs of the same pants and are your socks labeled MONDAY TUESDAY ECT ? 

[CLEANCARE WC]

18k a year is sod all, if i was he i would leave set up on my own and take as many custys as i could get with me

EXACTLY!  £18K is not enough to keep anyone with half a brain. The national average wage is £26K.

come on averages mean nothing that takes all the mega money wages into consideration which tops up the lower incomes its a load of rubbish.

Not quite so and very relevant to this question:

"Average" is a much misused word, as it can mean one of three things, mean, median and mode.  So, when someone says "average" you need to be VERY sure which one they are using.

Probably the most relevant one to use when looking at salaries is the median salary (unless you're a union leader trying to get your guys up to the "UK average", in which case use the mean, but don't tell anyone, as it'll help your case no end).  The median is the amount where if you line up all the people in a sample in order of salary, it would be the midpoint.  Or, to put it another way, it is the sum whereby half of all the sample earn more and half earn less.  That gets rid of the skew you're mentioning above, Cleancare, as someone earning even a hundred billion a year (to be daft) would have no more effect on the median than someone earning ten pence more than the median.  

And the relevant figures are:

Median income for all employees in the UK is £21K.  £18K would put 60% of people earning more than you, 40% less.  So, possibly not too bad a figure.

However, median income for all employees in full time employment in the UK is £26K.  In that line up, £18K would put 75% of people earning more than you and only 25% earning less.  Which makes for a different story, perhaps.

and, finally, median income for a male in full time employment is £28K.  Then £18K would put around 82% of people earning more than you and 18% earning less.  Which makes for a VERY different story indeed.

All figures from the Office for National Statistics.  All figures for 2011.

So, Richy, to put it simply, at £18K, your guy is earning less cash than 82% of the UK male population in full-time employment.  If that helps you make an informed decision, all to the good.  There isn't a breakdown for skilled/unskilled, so you might think that's OK.

Sorry for the detail, but it's important.  I know I'll get flamed for it and told that you can prove anything with statistics, but how can you make decisions without facts?  

Cue Rain Man comments.

Vin

Without blowing smoke up the proverbial I ment the above comment as a comical complement.

And I actually rate your opinion as you are consistant and know what your talking about, even if it is a bit above me sometimes.

[richywilts]

I've not said I'm never cleaning I will be going out maintaining commercial canvassing areas we already have a lot of jobs in and getting work more compact and revuilding ,y work in better paying areas

[landy2]

hello ritchy is you trolley still for sale email how much you want for it jayann@tesco.net

[richywilts]

18k a year is sod all, if i was he i would leave set up on my own and take as many custys as i could get with me

EXACTLY!  £18K is not enough to keep anyone with half a brain. The national average wage is £26K.

come on averages mean nothing that takes all the mega money wages into consideration which tops up the lower incomes its a load of rubbish.

Not quite so and very relevant to this question:

"Average" is a much misused word, as it can mean one of three things, mean, median and mode.  So, when someone says "average" you need to be VERY sure which one they are using.

Probably the most relevant one to use when looking at salaries is the median salary (unless you're a union leader trying to get your guys up to the "UK average", in which case use the mean, but don't tell anyone, as it'll help your case no end).  The median is the amount where if you line up all the people in a sample in order of salary, it would be the midpoint.  Or, to put it another way, it is the sum whereby half of all the sample earn more and half earn less.  That gets rid of the skew you're mentioning above, Cleancare, as someone earning even a hundred billion a year (to be daft) would have no more effect on the median than someone earning ten pence more than the median.  

And the relevant figures are:

Median income for all employees in the UK is £21K.  £18K would put 60% of people earning more than you, 40% less.  So, possibly not too bad a figure.

However, median income for all employees in full time employment in the UK is £26K.  In that line up, £18K would put 75% of people earning more than you and only 25% earning less.  Which makes for a different story, perhaps.

and, finally, median income for a male in full time employment is £28K.  Then £18K would put around 82% of people earning more than you and 18% earning less.  Which makes for a VERY different story indeed.

All figures from the Office for National Statistics.  All figures for 2011.

So, Richy, to put it simply, at £18K, your guy is earning less cash than 82% of the UK male population in full-time employment.  If that helps you make an informed decision, all to the good.  There isn't a breakdown for skilled/unskilled, so you might think that's OK.

Sorry for the detail, but it's important.  I know I'll get flamed for it and told that you can prove anything with statistics, but how can you make decisions without facts?  

Cue Rain Man comments.

Vin

Excellent post vin I see your point I still think 18000 is a damn good wage for a window cleaner who has come from dole queue and only has 6 months experience I'm willing to put time and effort into training etc too

[richywilts]

hello ritchy is you trolley still for sale email how much you want for it jayann@tesco.net

Yeah mate come over and make me an offer it's not being used

[landy2]

would you take £250 for it cheers

[Erithwc]

Hi

Your the boss if you give in to much whats the next thing he's going to demand  

Their are thousands of people looking for work their must be one out their happy to earn 18k a year and getting a free sun tan in the summer  

[bobplum]

is this the same wc on £18.000 who this morning flooded you van and unit and only because i walked in and made him come out of the office did he realize what was going on

[richywilts]

Yeah bob that'll be the one wondered were me water was!!!

[richywilts]

would you take £250 for it cheers

Landry its a bare trolley with maybe just a battery on it no controller no pump etc just the frame, wheels and maybe the battery

I wouldn't take 250 for it let me get bk to u tomoz when I've taken a look at it for u see if I'm right

[James Leet]

Hi sorry but I just don't believe a word you say, I know most will shout, but sorry I'm just ot having it

That is all

Welcome to the real world 

Of course the back slappers and brown nose'ers will not agree

[Perfect Windows]

Vin, i must be getting old as I thought that was quite interesting.

But I still can't see this being a true figure for the uk workers sorry.

do you have 7 pairs of the same pants and are your socks labeled MONDAY TUESDAY ECT ?  

I am the most disorganised human being you're ever likely to meet.  If the current Mrs Vin ever left me, I'd die of starvation in a couple of weeks because I'd forget to buy food.  And if I remembered, I'd forget where the shops are...

It's based upon a non-political department and is an index of average earnings based on earnings data from a sample of about 8,000 businesses.  The ONS is regularly reviewed as being excellent and impartial, so those are probably the best figures available.  They have no axe to grind.

If you have a different perception of what UK workers earn, you may (and please take this the way it's intended) wish to look to find the source of those feelings.  Are you basing it on personal experience?  The numbers quoted by a newspaper?  Something someone who hasn't sampled 8,000 businesses has said?  I'd trust their numbers over anything I felt any day of the week, as I'd be amazed if my experience was typical.

Vin

[alanwilson]

Richy

you are completely missing it mate - if he is as good as you say, then he's well worth 33%, easily - come on, what are your overheads??

General rule of thumb in business is a third anyway, and if he's real good than he should command at least that.  Besides, if he's working, he's making you money, so give him a third, you will regret it if you don't.

How can you replace him?

[spongebob]

I've not said I'm never cleaning I will be going out maintaining commercial canvassing areas we already have a lot of jobs in and getting work more compact and revuilding ,y work in better paying areas

Whatever mate. You obviously know whats best. I'll leave you to it.

[CLEANCARE WC]

Richy

you are completely missing it mate - if he is as good as you say, then he's well worth 33%, easily - come on, what are your overheads??

General rule of thumb in business is a third anyway, and if he's real good than he should command at least that.  Besides, if he's working, he's making you money, so give him a third, you will regret it if you don't.

How can you replace him?

IF THE EMPLOYEE IS DOING THE WHOLE ROUND BY HIMSELF, MAYBE.

BUT IF ALONG SIDE RICHY NO WAY!

[Londoner]

Richy

you are completely missing it mate - if he is as good as you say, then he's well worth 33%, easily - come on, what are your overheads??

General rule of thumb in business is a third anyway, and if he's real good than he should command at least that.  Besides, if he's working, he's making you money, so give him a third, you will regret it if you don't.

How can you replace him?

Why not put him on a basic and top it up with a commission? But I still think you have to go over £18 K or those little wheels inside his head will be turning. He sees every day how much he is making for you and by the sounds of it he has started thinking about it.

[William McCafferty]

or you could franchise a part of the business to him, that way you earn from his sweat and he is in control on how much sweating he does.

a win win deal