[Nathanael Jones]

Can i have a list of the many other c.e heaters please?

Rhiani & Morco have CE marked heaters that are very popular in the UK for caravan showers. They have the same (or higher) water flow requirements as the L5 and cost a lot more which is why few use them.

If you look on alibaba.com you'll see about 550 different CE marked models available from Chinese manufacturers, most for only $60 or so apiece. Unfortunately there are huge minimum order numbers, import duty, VAT, & shipping costs to consider which is why Peter's heater is IMO very good value for money.

[♠Winp®oClean♠]

I clean a listed building, sandstone frames with the original 18th century leaded glass! rinse on the glass on full flow 5.1 litre per min!
Customer loves her spotless windows, even gave me a lovely xmas tip.
come on lads its not rocket science!
Pure water(hot or cold) - pump - brush - rinse - get payed!

Exactly the same for me, 55ft up too, loads of them.

However, I also get perfect results with less water than you, smaller van & payload required, my pump runs on Varistream digital setting 1. I can run my pump all day direct from the van battery via 12v cig' lighter socket because of this. NO fannying with chargers & leisure batteries etc.  My resin lasts longer, I put less water on the ground etc. etc.

Just for starters, are we getting there?

[Nathanael Jones]

Its down to personal choice,.. but whatever your choice is, there should be a heater perfectly suited to you, it shouldn't be a case of changing the way you work to suit the heater.

[Peter Fogwill]

Its down to personal choice,.. but whatever your choice is, there should be a heater perfectly suited to you, it shouldn't be a case of changing the way you work to suit the heater.

I agree and have stopped trying to change the way people work, as most people won't change.  Sometime with a post like this someone may try someone elses way, and never look back. 

What I would say to Winp@oclean,  how do you know you are using less water per window than kentcleen?  And if you are not using less water which is very possible, then imagine what that could mean.  It could mean that he is doing more than double the work you are doing per day.  He may not be, but it is possible.

Peter Fogwill
www.window-tools.com

[♠Winp®oClean♠]

Its down to personal choice,.. but whatever your choice is, there should be a heater perfectly suited to you, it shouldn't be a case of changing the way you work to suit the heater.

I agree 100% & that is what I'm waiting for.

There's too much ill-conceived crap in the wfp market already, much of it by big names too! Many think they've got it spot on & they couldn't be further from the truth! :

Take a look at Unger's over engineered, over weight, time consuming & so pretty much useless multilink goosneck system :  If you've got a spare hour to spend for each job you might find a use for it but even then I doubt it. :

[♠Winp®oClean♠]

Its down to personal choice,.. but whatever your choice is, there should be a heater perfectly suited to you, it shouldn't be a case of changing the way you work to suit the heater.

I agree and have stopped trying to change the way people work, as most people won't change.  Sometime with a post like this someone may try someone elses way, and never look back. 

What I would say to Winp@oclean,  how do you know you are using less water per window than kentcleen?  And if you are not using less water which is very possible, then imagine what that could mean.  It could mean that he is doing more than double the work you are doing per day.  He may not be, but it is possible.

Peter Fogwill
www.window-tools.com

He isn't Peter, that I guarantee you. That is just a typical response & an easy reply.

Why oh why haven't you researched what most people consider the most vital aspect of a gas heater :

This is my gripe, people who many assume to get it right & to be honest SHOULD DO, very often don't! : People that "assume" faster flow= faster work, not always true! People that assume they can just unleash any ill-conceived crap on us & we'll work round it.

It's nonsense & just breeds less confidence.

[Peter Fogwill]

Can i have a list of the many other c.e heaters please?

If you look on alibaba.com you'll see about 550 different CE marked models available from Chinese manufacturers, most for only $60 or so apiece. Unfortunately there are huge minimum order numbers, import duty, VAT, & shipping costs to consider which is why Peter's heater is IMO very good value for money.

Nat have you tried contacting any of them?  If not give it a try, what they have advertised and what they actually have is two completely different things, and only after a few weeks of negotiation do you find out the truth.  The company in China that make the L5 for Eccotemp advertise having CE, but it is on a heater that is not suitable for us.
 
Peter Fogwill
www.window-tools.com

[mci services]

Its down to personal choice,.. but whatever your choice is, there should be a heater perfectly suited to you, it shouldn't be a case of changing the way you work to suit the heater.

I agree and have stopped trying to change the way people work, as most people won't change.  Sometime with a post like this someone may try someone elses way, and never look back. 

What I would say to Winp@oclean,  how do you know you are using less water per window than kentcleen?  And if you are not using less water which is very possible, then imagine what that could mean.  It could mean that he is doing more than double the work you are doing per day.  He may not be, but it is possible.

Peter Fogwill
www.window-tools.com

He isn't Peter, that I guarantee you. That is just a typical response & an easy reply.

Why oh why haven't you researched what most people consider the most vital aspect of a gas heater :

This is my gripe, people who many assume to get it right & to be honest SHOULD DO, very often don't! : People that "assume" faster flow= faster work, not always true! People that assume they can just unleash any ill-conceived crap on us & we'll work round it.

It's nonsense & just breeds less confidence.

that is just your opinion and that is fine you are entitled to it. but I happen to agree with peters opinion. and this has come after trying all manners of method.

but that is just my opinion so it could be wrong.

free country and all that buy or don't buy

[♠Winp®oClean♠]

Its down to personal choice,.. but whatever your choice is, there should be a heater perfectly suited to you, it shouldn't be a case of changing the way you work to suit the heater.

I agree and have stopped trying to change the way people work, as most people won't change.  Sometime with a post like this someone may try someone elses way, and never look back. 

What I would say to Winp@oclean,  how do you know you are using less water per window than kentcleen?  And if you are not using less water which is very possible, then imagine what that could mean.  It could mean that he is doing more than double the work you are doing per day.  He may not be, but it is possible.

Peter Fogwill
www.window-tools.com

He isn't Peter, that I guarantee you. That is just a typical response & an easy reply.

Why oh why haven't you researched what most people consider the most vital aspect of a gas heater :

This is my gripe, people who many assume to get it right & to be honest SHOULD DO, very often don't! : People that "assume" faster flow= faster work, not always true! People that assume they can just unleash any ill-conceived crap on us & we'll work round it.

It's nonsense & just breeds less confidence.

that is just your opinion and that is fine you are entitled to it. but I happen to agree with peters opinion. and this has come after trying all manners of method.

but that is just my opinion so it could be wrong.

free country and all that buy or don't buy

You're right Stu. Nearly 7 years of wfp & I too have tried the lot. Probably every combination of everything! Fast, slow, fans, pencils, f/glass poles, carbon poles, heavy brushes, light brushes, flocked, mono, dual trim, single trim etc etc. My whole agenda is to work in the most effective way, experience isn't an issue for me.

The point is, there should be no excuses needed! Nat has it spot on.

I was getting excited about this heater until Peter announced that he didn't realise that flow rate was of any importance. No disrespect to anyone but do you see a BIG problem with that statement?

[mci services]

No disrespect to anyone but do you see a BIG problem with that statement?

well not for me but others I am sure it will be. And being the smart cookie he is I am sure he will address it

[♠Winp®oClean♠]

No disrespect to anyone but do you see a BIG problem with that statement?

well not for me but others I am sure it will be. And being the smart cookie he is I am sure he will address it

I hope he does, really For now I'll have to wait for a proper user review, my confidence in it has taken a wee dip.

That's me done, my passion for good products is getting the better of me!

[Peter Fogwill]

He isn't Peter, that I guarantee you. That is just a typical response & an easy reply.

Why oh why haven't you researched what most people consider the most vital aspect of a gas heater :

This is my gripe, people who many assume to get it right & to be honest SHOULD DO, very often don't! : People that "assume" faster flow= faster work, not always true! People that assume they can just unleash any ill-conceived crap on us & we'll work round it.

It's  & just breeds less confidence.

You are right faster flow doesn't always mean faster work, but much more often than not it does.

I have made something available that people wanted.  First and foremost I developed the hot water system to meet the needs of my customers.  During the freeze up here in January I had customers visit me with 400L blocks of ice in the back of their vans, looking at me and asking what can be done.  People that couldn't pay their mortgage that month never mind lay out over £2000 for a heated system.  These people were my priority, and the system that they have will work perfectly with the new HotWash.  If it can help other people out then fair enough all the better, and if possible i can work towards getting a system to suit everyone.

Now remember why we want hot water.  Yes in test my customers reported advantages of hot water even in the summer, with reports that they wanted hot water in the summer as well as winter, but the hot comes into it's own to keep you working in the freezing weather.

 The system I have will do this for everyone.  You personally as far as I can see would have two choices for using hot water with my system.  Firstly turn the flow up from your pump, this would give you hot water and keep you working in freezing weather.  Secondly set up your system to circulate hot water through your heater into the top of your tank while your out working, again this would keep you working in freezing weather.  

Now you may have to change your technique for the first choice but not such big problem if it was the difference between working or not working, even if you did use double the water and only worked a half day.  The second choice would mean you would have to have a second pump, again not such a big deal when you consider the alternative.  I know the guys above would be glad of any of the choices above when the alternative was no money coming in for 6 weeks.

I have a local guy coming next week who has 20 people working with backpacks from a large transit van.  My system once fitted will be keeping all his men working when otherwise they wouldn't be.  Now this guy won't be blaming me for not producing a small heater that can be fitted to each backpack, he will be grateful for the chance to get his men working when normally they wouldn't be.

This is the first time that I am aware of where the water flow has been mentioned as a problem, and it is noted and will be worked out one way or another, just like any other things brought to my attention.  Remember also I have not tested the minimum water flow that the heater will reliably run at, it could very well run at the pressure you require.  I will probably know the answer tomorrow.

Peter Fogwill
www.window-tools.com

[dave0123]

What do most people use per min then? I only have 250 litre but still use 2lit per min

[Peter Fogwill]

What do most people use per min then? I only have 250 litre but still use 2lit per minute

Interesting question Dave. How many hours can you work with your 250L.  And how much of the 2L does it take to clean an average house window?

Peter

[Ste M]

what gets me about all this is that were only aware of low flow rate due to the L5, whats to say peters doesnt suffer from that issue? i found that i actually had to turn my flow rate down to use my L5 effectively.

It sounds like some people on here dont want Peters system to work or be a success ( i have to admit i was rather peeved at the lack of communication about the launch) , now they have found soemthing to moan about ie: the flow rate, they wont let go of it, some people are acting like dogs with bones.

[Nathanael Jones]

Just a tip for anyone who does find their heater needs more water to run than they normally use:

Turn the water flow numpty on the heater down to minimum & insert a tap washer (You may need to cut it to size and increase the size of the hole a tiny tiny bit) into the outlet connector on the heater. This will let pressure build up earlier in the heater & will activate the automatic ignition with less water flowing.

This works for EVERY gas heater I have seen so far,...

[Dave Willis]

I'd love to see twenty people with back packs streaming out of a Transit van. 

Do they sit on each others laps?

[brad2406]

As regards how long gas will last.

I run 2 l5s from a 11kg refillable LPG  bottle.

A full bottle lasts 3 days, working on housing estates constantly working.

Hope this is of some help, cheers.

[Peter Fogwill]

I'd love to see twenty people with back packs streaming out of a Transit van. 

Do they sit on each others laps?

I don't know the ins and outs of how they get around, but I wouldn't think they all travelled in the back of the van.

Peter Fogwill
www.window-tools.com

[Peter Fogwill]

OK I tested the water flow and the heater will work reliably at 0.75 Litres per minute.  It will work with less flow than that but not reliably. 

I shouldn't think anyone would use a flow less than the 0.75 but if they did they could use Nat''s washer idea.

Peter Fogwill
www.window-tools.com