[Michael Smallwood]

I finished a domestic job today that was done in 2 stages. Most of the house was HWE, and the section I finished today was a fairly new carpet - just over a year old and just needed a good freshen up.

The cutomer was delighted as I "Hosted" it while it was pouring with rain outside.

HWE, LM, Host etc = horses for courses IMO.

Cheers

Mike

[Simon Gerrard]

Gulp 

[elliott cleaning]

The cutomer was delighted as I "Hosted" it while it was pouring with rain outside.

I learn something on this forum everytime I clock in     Never before appreciated that it is best to use the 'Host' system when there are adverse weather conditions outside :

[Simon Gerrard]

Frans,

Oh yes, we do it all the time as we don't like getting our TM hoses wet when it's raining :

[Dave Roberts]

I come across a lot of customers who perceive that their carpets will take a lot longer to dry, when the weather is cold or wet.     

*******

People are too quick to judge dry extraction cleaning based on the horror stories and incompetent operators.   There are horror stories and incompetent operators of all methods; none more so than Hot Water Extraction!

Some words on "Shake n Vac" and then I'm of to bed as I don't want to upset the apple cart again (we've only just got all the apples back on it), and I'm tired as I've had 3 weeks of a full diary 6 days per week, (of this dastardly low moisture carpet cleaning)  ;

Dry Extraction:  People who assume that this method involves simply vacuuming, putting down dry extraction compound, brushing it in, then vaccing it out, really just show their lack of understanding of the method.

The key is in the word Dry "Extraction" ....... In effective use of this method, the sponges are to remove dirt and soil that has already been pre-treated, agitated and broken down from the fibres.    Just the same as if you Truck Mount fans turned up and simply sprayed a detergent rinse on the carpet you wouldn't get good results, so it is with dry extraction.

After the pre-vac the carpet must be pre-sprayed with appropriate chems for the soil that's residing in the carpet.  (So something like M-Power for organic soil types, and something solvent based or with a higher pH*, if the soil is more oily or synthetic).  Agitation of the pre-spray using the CRB machine is then the key "soil breaking" stage.

Only when I am confident that all removable soil has been split from fibres would I then apply the dry extraction sponges.  They will then absorb the soil and the pre-spray**.

The result when this method is used effectively, is removal of any level of soil; not just "mild soiling only" as some HWE'ers love to state!      Dry Extraction can completely restore a trashed carpet, WHEN executed correctly, with knowledge and experience.

*I never use a pH above 8 with Dry Extraction because although the sponges are pH neutral and will bring down the pH in use, they clearly aren't as acidic as an acid rinse.

** Bear in mind that all of the Pre-Sprays that I use with Dry Extraction are technically speaking 'non-rinsing', as in they do not need to be rinsed (ie... M-Power), however the dry extraction picks up the pre-spray and encapsulated soil, and most importantly, contributes to the drying.

When you hear people like Martin_606 say that he's cleaned all levels of soil from carpets over the last XX years, it's because he has the expertise to clean properly, regardless of the extraction system, not that he has a nice stance when he does his "shake n vac".

[Carpet Dawg]

Speed, a poor man's cocaine.......

[Michael Smallwood]

The cutomer was delighted as I "Hosted" it while it was pouring with rain outside.

I learn something on this forum everytime I clock in     Never before appreciated that it is best to use the 'Host' system when there are adverse weather conditions outside :

It was not adverse weather conditions as much as possible adverse cutomer conditions that influenced my choice of method.    The path of least resitance was the dry extraction route rather than arguing wet clean and drying equipment.

My aim is to provide the service that keeps the customer happy while doing a good job.

Cheers

Mike

[Simon Gerrard]

So you've got to:
1. Pre-vac
2. Pre-spray
3. Agitate pre-spray
4. Apply granules
6. Agitate granules
7. Vac carpet to remove granules.

When you have done all of that and with the best will in the world the carpet still isn't going to be as clean as if you'd HWE'd it in the first place. Plus, unless you are extremely thorough you're going to leave behind some of the granules that you've ground into the carpet, which in turn leads to the most common cause of complaint from customers I've encountered, that their carpet was full of sand after the cleaning.
What I can't get my head around is that dry compound cleaning has at its heart the very opposite of almost every other carpet cleaning system - it relies on material being put on to the carpet in order to get it clean, whereas the others rely on material being removed.

How many sq yds per hour can you clean with the method to the above spec?
What the cost per sq yd with this method?
Presumably you have to wait for the pre-spray to dry before you can vac them off the carpet, how long will that take?

Simon

[Colin Day]

I used granuals the other day for an EOT as  I believed the old carpets would fall apart if I as much as sneezed on them.

The carpets looked nice and fresh using "Shake and Vac" and the custy was delighted.... I got paid, everyone is happy....

We should always be thinking outside the box... As an old boss of mine used to say, "people want solutions, not problems"

[carpetworx]

Been using a t/m for 3 years now.But the 12 months been using encap with excellent results as most of my business is now 90% high rise offices in the city,the t/m has to go to make way for more l/m equipment , as i need to put on another guy.
To be honest i wont miss tripping over flippng hoses and burning my fingers on brass connects, oil changes,sticky floats in header tanks(flooding van).One thing i've learned is truckmounts are an over kill and a good operator does not need one.unless you specialise in flood work,then you need to invest in a lot more gear,dehumids etc.
So to some up a good cleaner can get away with.
1) a good vacuum cleaner(most important part).
2) an agitation machine.
3) good quality chems
4) a decent extractor or pad machine or both.
Nuff said.
Martin.

[Joe H]

if you mean that



think you living dangerously here

[expro]

Simon,

You could try Bonnet buff or multipro [both Prochem products] to prespray with.

Pureclean does tend to need more dwell time and agitation  than the above.

As for T/M or LM it's easy. The best results are from a TRUCKMOUNT.

Expro

[peter maybury]

I had the opportunity a few weeks ago to go in and do several test areas in a very soiled call centre and we went in and did about 12 diferent areas using different methods and chemicals and a mixture of methods. The area that came up best was vacced, presprayed with ultrapac with a small amount of foam granules in ,then hot water extracted with the truckmount, then bonnet buffed using hot pads and  prochem bonnet buff. It came up better than any of the other areas that we used just one or more methodon.
This is something that I have been doing for sometime with low levelloopand tobe perfectlyhonest I cannot see how anyother way can be better. I know there are mqany on here who have not investet in a good heavy aggitation machine and cannot see the benefit but the crap and grit that you get sitting on the topof the carpet after a good aggitation is pretty eye opening. Also I know from pre aggitation days that the
power of the truckmount and the aggitation of the wand on the pile also brings a massive amount of crap out of the carpet. I did find however that before we also started going over with the pads a lot of the marks were reaapearing at a later stage. I think with experimenting you will draw the same conclusions. I am always looking for way of improving the way I do things and are always open to new ideas, I have not tried encap but will order some with an open mind.
I will bonnetbuff on it own for a maintenace clean or on less soiled carpets.
Peter
www.carpetcleanercardiff.com

[carpetworx]

Open yer mind pete.
Encap is the future.

In fact i reckon Simon could encap those ships, as i'm sure they vacuumed every day. :

[peter maybury]

My mind is open am going to texatherm  in between xmas and new year to see if we are doing anything wrong in not getting ther results that we want from low moisture. On a wool carpet I get better results from my von schrader machines but truckmount is still first choice.

Peter

[jasonl]

My mind is open am going to texatherm  in between xmas and new year to see if we are doing anything wrong in not getting ther results that we want from low moisture. On a wool carpet I get better results from my von schrader machines but truckmount is still first choice.

Peter

In what respect are you not getting results ?  stain removal? drying times? Visuals?

I can probably help, I have used texatherm,dryfusion etc ,and found them to be n o better than vanilla bonnet buffing

[cannon]

Jason ive finally got myself a rotary and some bonnets, all the gear but no idea springs to mind   

Whats your standard procedure?

1 vac
2 pre-sray
3 aggitate
4 dip bonnets in hot water and wring out
5 bonnet away

And which chems do you reccomend

Thanks

[jasonl]

That looks ok , on a cut pile carpet I would rake it first, and vac very thoroughly in 2 directions.

I would not wring the pads (where does this come from, who invented this dipping and wringing trend)

Pour onto the pad half a kettle of boiling water then clean, after about 15-20m2  turn pad over and repeat the procedure,, pouring hot water on pad again.

This time instead of just straight lines ,  work the buffer in a circular motion in a line .

I like the pads with brown agitation bits the most , I call them grinders!

[Steve. Taylor]

I agree with jason on the bucket wrining trend. IMO chemical goes on the carpet not pad i use a mcdonalds blue plastic tray place pad on that pour around 3 cups from kettle. lower rotary with pad holder onto pad. tilt back remove drop handle to crutch height and go.

ALWAYS ALWAYS REMEMBER THE PAD ON THE BOTTOM MAKES HELL OF A MARK IF NOT :

Dirty pads after 12 to 20 m2 depending on soiling turned. when both sides are dirty i use a new pad

Good vac a  must on this work  N. E. S. W

Lay the machine on its back if you stop don't let the wet pad sit in one place or you could get wicking.

[cannon]

Any chem recomendations?