Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: mr D on June 11, 2008, 12:53:36 am
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every day this site seems to be more and more a wfp only site.
has trad w/c become a thing of the past and every one jumped on the old band wagon or is it because trad w/c dont involve loads of banging on about which kit is best?
please raise your hand if you reg trad w/c!
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I am still trad. I think wfp is probably the way of the future though. Am converting over slowly.
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trad is for cowboys, surely you should know this by now
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trad is for cowboys, surely you should know this by now
YeeeeeeeeeeHaaaaaaaaaaaaa !
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When I joined this forum there was only one WFP cleaner posting on here. That was Justin Ruggles, in fact, he was virtually the only domestic WFP user in the country.
He gradually converted a few diehards who saw the opportunity that WFP presented and one by one they changed over.
After that the floodgates opened but I can still remember the fantastic arguements that used to run and run between the trad and WFP users. Friday nights were particularly lively, getting more so as the evening wore on.
Its a shame that the old trad guys don't seem to be on here anymore. There are quite a few names that you just don't see.
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Rollin rollin rollin , though the streams are swollen , keep them doggies rolling rawhide . . . . . everybody " rain and wind and weather , hell bent for leather, wishing my girl was by my side . . . . LOL ;D
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raaaaaaawwwwwwhide
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They probably got sick of being wrongly looked down on by some wfp guys.
To be fair, if I hadn't gone gone wfp a year or so ago, I doubt I'd be here now.
It used to do my head in, all this "I'm better than you" rubbish.
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the guys who put down trad w/c crack me up.
but in a bad way! i think for the future of this forum the mods should crack down on the micky taking of trad guys. sooooo many leave because of it. if im a cow boy for trad w/c then so be it. i've been on me own for a year and making a very good living from it. with next to no out goings on tools. and half the worries. never lose jobs from poor workman ship and am as fit at a butcherdog! :-*
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I am trad and do not think I would ever become WFP due to me living in a terrace house with a tiny garden so nowhere to put all the stuff.
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how can wfp guys look down on trad, as we are up the ladder and they are on the ground. they must have really long legs ;D
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With all due respect, but not all window cleaners belong to this forum.
Where are al the trad cleaners? Out on the streets doing a great job and earning an honest living.
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and im only joking as i have been doing windows for 5 years trad 3, and i still do a lot trad now...lol oh you guys!!
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To be fair, if I hadn't gone gone wfp a year or so ago, I doubt I'd be here now.
squeaks, i don't believe that. You seemed to relish in it. Like a red rag to a bull! I reckon you miss trad for that reason alone. ;D
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Trad is proper window cleaning, wfp is what you have to do to keep your business up with the times.
far more skill to doing trad, not only being able to use a blade but also solving access problems, jumping sills, hanging out of windows, running up ladders, not just any 'silly boy' can do it.
I can't believe there are peolpe on here that can't trad.
There will always be a place for trad in this business i.e insides.
I can do both by the way, and won.t use anyone that can't.
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I am trad 21 years now with a very successful business , 22 villages in total and custies rangeing from o.a.p's to lords sirs & ladies. :)
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whoops I mean lady's LoL ;D
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I do both trad and wfp so there ;)
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gave my job up other week to go fullt time with her Dad. He gives me money at the end of the week and i only use Trad. I have all my equipment for WFP but still to ge tit fitted intoa van. I will still use trad as load sof work is commercial work i.e. shop fronts which suit trad better than wfp due to access.
quite handy with a blade now and do insides and outs. Also work with poles aty height which i am getting used to.
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I haven't been here long, but I have been quite taken aback by this wfp versus trad thing. I have 13 years experience trad, and 2 years wfp. A good friend of mine got me into the wfp thing. While it has advantages, it has disadvantages. I feel the wfp crew exaggerate the difference, just to get at the trad guys. I feel wfp is overrated here, if your a quick trad guy there isn't much in it. Factor in the extra cost of wfp, there is little to choose in my opinion.
If you can do both well, your laughing - they both have a place. If I know what I know now though, I don't know I'd have bothered with wfp. I would simply go trad and, target work that suited trad.
In summary, I think what you read here from wfp guys is often due to the fact they are on the wind up, or were slow trad window cleaners. I'm sure wfp suits some rounds more than others, so I'm sure there are a few guys just speaking as they find.
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I haven't been here long, but I have been quite taken aback by this wfp versus trad thing. I have 13 years experience trad, and 2 years wfp. A good friend of mine got me into the wfp thing. While it has advantages, it has disadvantages. I feel the wfp crew exaggerate the difference, just to get at the trad guys. I feel wfp is overrated here, if your a quick trad guy there isn't much in it. Factor in the extra cost of wfp, there is little to choose in my opinion.
If you can do both well, your laughing - they both have a place. If I know what I know now though, I don't know I'd have bothered with wfp. I would simply go trad and, target work that suited trad.
In summary, I think what you read here from wfp guys is often due to the fact they are on the wind up, or were slow trad window cleaners. I'm sure wfp suits some rounds more than others, so I'm sure there are a few guys just speaking as they find.
wonderful reply that you hit on some good factors ive been thinking of. 'if your a quick trad guy there isn't much in it'. so true. ive raced wfp guys where i live and knocked there socks off. so its dont to who has the tools in there hand, also relatest to 'due to the fact they are on the wind up, or were slow trad window cleaners'.
as fro the reply from wally, i hear ya doode but i think you miss read what i ment, i know there are loads of trad guys on the stree. i see them from time to time but i ment where have they gone from this forum! but as there has been a better reply than i 1st thought i'm happy to see i'm not the only 1.
i think there are alot of w/c who have been sold alot of kit costing to much money that feel a bit silly so there answer is to put down other w/c to make them feel better. bit like small man syndrom! good on you guys that dont. you help convert non wfp's (like me) to looking in to it as an assett to there business where as those that sling mud just put us off!.
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i think there are alot of w/c who have been sold alot of kit costing to much money that feel a bit silly so there answer is to put down other w/c to make them feel better.
Good point. My mate is a great example, he will rip into the trad guys down the pub, wind them up about how much he makes. Truth is he feels a bit like me. The investment doesn't feel so bad now, but when you consider the initial grief of setting up a wfp round, we both have had times when we felt like suckers.
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trad is for cowboys, surely you should know this by now
who you calling a cow boy wallybrain........ i am making a decent living trad ........... av done for twenty three yrs now..... and will carry on doing so pal.....i am investing in waterfed soon due to expansion commercial side of it... window cleaning dont need muppetts like you slagging trad off...
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Trads can't do 5th floor, wfp's can't do insides.
Put the 2 together and you're set.
To call yourself a window cleaner you MUST be able to trad.
If you can't, what do you say to custies that want a shop front done in a shopping precinct or someone wants their insides done or their mirrors or their sash windows on the 8th floor etc etc.
There are two side to a pane of glass, if you can't trad you are potentially losing out on 50% of the available work.
Anyway, as long as the window is clean, who gives a wotsname how it gets that way.
One mans rubbish is another mans treasure.
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not 100% true. i can clean 5th floor trad. but dont tell every one! :-X
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You can clean 35th floor trad on a cradle.
Like to see wfp do that. ;D
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IM TRAD !
im absolutely convinced that my round is not conducive to wfp , and therefore it wont be !
i am however intending to buy a freedom trolley ( soon ) , for any future work that i may require it for , i also have quite a number of contracts that in time i may convert , but houses , no !
LSB / TRAD .
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You can clean 35th floor trad on a cradle.
Like to see wfp do that. ;D
Exactly, so if people can't trad they would have to turn this 35 floor job down.
The squeegee has had no modification in the way it works since it was invented, so it can't be that bad.
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Mr D.
You must wear unfeasably large pants. ;D
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I am with Lloyds TSB and thats where I bank my money every Friday. THEY don't give toss whether I am trad or WFP. Its all just money to them.
I don't give a toss either, just so happens I am mainly WFP but its all a way of making money to me.
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By the way some people talk about ladders on here i think all the trad cleaners have died after falling off their ladders and thats why we don't here from them!
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Started trad went wfp went back trad now only do tops wfp
prefer trad wfp does me head in thers so much that can go
wrong , equipment breaking down hoses snagging it`s
easier to use than climbing a ladder but such a pain,
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I haven't been here long, but I have been quite taken aback by this wfp versus trad thing. I have 13 years experience trad, and 2 years wfp. A good friend of mine got me into the wfp thing. While it has advantages, it has disadvantages. I feel the wfp crew exaggerate the difference, just to get at the trad guys. I feel wfp is overrated here, if your a quick trad guy there isn't much in it. Factor in the extra cost of wfp, there is little to choose in my opinion.
If you can do both well, your laughing - they both have a place. If I know what I know now though, I don't know I'd have bothered with wfp. I would simply go trad and, target work that suited trad.
In summary, I think what you read here from wfp guys is often due to the fact they are on the wind up, or were slow trad window cleaners. I'm sure wfp suits some rounds more than others, so I'm sure there are a few guys just speaking as they find.
I reckon I was about average speed with trad myself. WFP has certainly speeded me up but it needed to because, as you say, there are higher ongoing costs. My turnover is way up from what it was. My profit is up quite a bit too. As for the quality I think it would be fair to say that on most of my work, most of the time, WFP is as good as trad. Sometimes it's better IMO due to the frame washing. Sometimes it's worse due to dodgy seals, vents, oxidising of frames, and difficulties shifting fly poo (if that's what it is).
I actually have some jobs that only take half the time they used to. There is a time saving on nearly all of my jobs. On a few there isn't.
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I haven't been here long, but I have been quite taken aback by this wfp versus trad thing. I have 13 years experience trad, and 2 years wfp. A good friend of mine got me into the wfp thing. While it has advantages, it has disadvantages. I feel the wfp crew exaggerate the difference, just to get at the trad guys. I feel wfp is overrated here, if your a quick trad guy there isn't much in it. Factor in the extra cost of wfp, there is little to choose in my opinion.
If you can do both well, your laughing - they both have a place. If I know what I know now though, I don't know I'd have bothered with wfp. I would simply go trad and, target work that suited trad.
In summary, I think what you read here from wfp guys is often due to the fact they are on the wind up, or were slow trad window cleaners. I'm sure wfp suits some rounds more than others, so I'm sure there are a few guys just speaking as they find.
I reckon I was about average speed with trad myself. WFP has certainly speeded me up but it needed to because, as you say, there are higher ongoing costs. My turnover is way up from what it was. My profit is up quite a bit too. As for the quality I think it would be fair to say that on most of my work, most of the time, WFP is as good as trad. Sometimes it's better IMO due to the frame washing. Sometimes it's worse due to dodgy seals, vents, oxidising of frames, and difficulties shifting fly poo (if that's what it is).
I actually have some jobs that only take half the time they used to. There is a time saving on nearly all of my jobs. On a few there isn't.
Shiner have you read my post ??? I need you to call me asap, it is in your interest ;)
Ian
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I do both and love both.
Custy gets what they want either way.
Some jobs are much faster trad than wfp.
Oh no, ??? I think I am going to get a slagging.
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I do both and love both.
Custy gets what they want either way.
Some jobs are much faster trad than wfp.
Oh no, ??? I think I am going to get a slagging.
Not from me.
You're right, shop fronts are certainly quicker trad.
Most small bungalows too.
The bigger the job, the more time wfp saves you.
There's a need for both.
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BOTH WFP AND TRADITIONAL ARE RIGHT I FEEL A FEW CHEAP SHOTS ARE BEEN AIMED AT THE TRAD GUYS ON HERE.. AND THEY ARE PROBABLY THE ONES WHO HAVE HAD THE MOST EXPERIENCE OF RUNNING A SUCCESFULL BUSINESS!!
IF IT AINT BROKE DON,T FIX IT...
PS I CLEAN BOTH WFP AND TRAD
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I can sense a wind change here :o :o :o We all need both trad and wfp ;D ;D ;D
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3 yrs trad 15 mths wfp
out of nearly 400 jobs i trad 5 of em
all these jobs are ground floor jobs and large panes
any time advantage (which is minimal or even non existent on this type of work) is outweighed by the volume of water used. No point saving 5 minutes if you are using 2 or 3 houses worth of water to do so imo.I went diy route so dont need to justify a massive investment and my experience of wfp is that the more you use it the better it gets,it can halve the time taken on some jobs and with good technique is AT LEAST as good as trad.The World Is Full Of Crappy Window Cleaners ;D ;D ;D
just be as good as you can be with pole or scrim
turn up regular
do it your way.....just do it well ;)
oh........and if you cant trad then FLIPPING WELL LEARN TO :o
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I am trad and do not think I would ever become WFP due to me living in a terrace house with a tiny garden so nowhere to put all the stuff.
same here if i take the dog out in the car ive to put all my kit in the front room,the wheelie bins are outside the gate as the ladders are in the yard.so i will stay trsd
Thats a thought . . . . . how much water would a wheelie bin hold ?
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I can't see how anyone can be totally WFP. You still have to trad some windows otherwise how can you tell if you have missed a bit.
I did a first clean on a £50 house yesterday. House is on a split level so the ground floor at the back is just a long row of glass. Like a massive shop window. Some of those windows I had to do three times trad before I got them perfect. Had I just done them with the brush I would never have known about all the marks I had missed.
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even though im 99% wfp i still have boab on i think after a while wfp you get
a instinct for windows which are likely to cause you probs especially on first
cleans solike to squeegee these windows to check results
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I've been cleaning windows for ten years now trad style and would not change for anything, you can't clean a window that you can't see. I was out a few weeks ago and a lad pulled up to do the house next door with a portable wfp it took him twice as long to do the same type of house that i was doing for the same price, he then had to roll up his hose and then put it back on his trailer to get to the next house, while i was already making more money cleaning my next house. In my view just a waste of time and money this guy was only making 60 quid a day and on a bad day i can make 120. It doesn;t take a genius to work out why i will never change!!!!
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I've been cleaning windows for ten years now trad style and would not change for anything, you can't clean a window that you can't see. I was out a few weeks ago and a lad pulled up to do the house next door with a portable wfp it took him twice as long to do the same type of house that i was doing for the same price, he then had to roll up his hose and then put it back on his trailer to get to the next house, while i was already making more money cleaning my next house. In my view just a waste of time and money this guy was only making 60 quid a day and on a bad day i can make 120. It doesn;t take a genius to work out why i will never change!!!!
That was my view a year and a half ago, (ask anyone!)
It still agree with it in some instances.
It is a lot of bother between houses.
You also do get caught out by bits you can't see. :-\
What appeals to me is wfp is so much easier.
I don't mind having to mess about with the hose, as I've used sod-all energy doing the job.
I know exactly where you're coming from, but you're having to work much harder for your money than me.
I'm just fresher in the evenings after work now.
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we went wfp over six weeks ago (freedom trolley) wfp tops trad bottoms, we got the trolley because an employee was leaving and have a huge work load... in some, no most instances wfp is quicker but i think once all the windows on the round are prepared for wfp cleaning and we dont have to explain to every customer it will be significanly faster... at the moment we are making more money in the same days than when we had somebody working for us and the day is also a lot more chilled out... imagine i flew around wfp like i did stupidly with a ladder... anyway bottom line is its much better psychologicaly going to work knowing your not climbing a ladder all day.. I ENJOY WORK AGAIN
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we went wfp over six weeks ago (freedom trolley) wfp tops trad bottoms, we got the trolley because an employee was leaving and have a huge work load... in some, no most instances wfp is quicker but i think once all the windows on the round are prepared for wfp cleaning and we dont have to explain to every customer it will be significanly faster... at the moment we are making more money in the same days than when we had somebody working for us and the day is also a lot more chilled out... imagine i flew around wfp like i did stupidly with a ladder... anyway bottom line is its much better psychologicaly going to work knowing your not climbing a ladder all day.. I ENJOY WORK AGAIN
You have got me so excited saying that ;D
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I have to take my hat off to people who tad, i wish i had started doing this before wfp had got so big just so that i could of learnt, im getting a few jobs now where i need to use trad i.e inside jobs and it seems to take me forever (just got back from doing one), tidying up etc, Fair play too you as theres no way at the min i could do as many houses in a day trad compared to wfp but im basing that on my speed trad and not what most peoples speed would be.
Chris
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I have to take my hat off to people who tad, i wish i had started doing this before wfp had got so big just so that i could of learnt, im getting a few jobs now where i need to use trad i.e inside jobs and it seems to take me forever (just got back from doing one), tidying up etc, Fair play too you as theres no way at the min i could do as many houses in a day trad compared to wfp but im basing that on my speed trad and not what most peoples speed would be.
Chris
My boy is just starting out with me , and he is finding it hard getting used to the squeegee! I keep telling him it is all in the wrist action, but he just glares at me LOL ;D
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i can do the rist bit i just think the cloths i use cant be too good as when i wipe the sides i get a line.
Chris
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keep the blade moving and you will pick it up ion no time. I actually like doing windows trad. I use a scrim to tidy up and away i go again.
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trad rules ;D ;D ;D
dream on :P
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i can do the rist bit i just think the cloths i use cant be too good as when i wipe the sides i get a line.
Chris
Try and use microfibre clothes , and make sure you use it dry , and only use your finger with the cloth underneath ;D
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Im trad, have plenty of work and gettin new stuff all the time. There will always be work out there for trad, you can still have a very successful business useing the tradtional method.
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I am trad. Considering a trolley for the awkward windows and to keep up to date.
Steve
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I work 100% trad and for the most part I like the method. Sometimes you can get awkward windows above slants for example which are a pain though. For those that use a wfp is it easier to clean windows in the rain with this method and can you still do leaded windows?
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we went wfp over six weeks ago (freedom trolley) wfp tops trad bottoms, we got the trolley because an employee was leaving and have a huge work load... in some, no most instances wfp is quicker but i think once all the windows on the round are prepared for wfp cleaning and we dont have to explain to every customer it will be significanly faster... at the moment we are making more money in the same days than when we had somebody working for us and the day is also a lot more chilled out... imagine i flew around wfp like i did stupidly with a ladder... anyway bottom line is its much better psychologicaly going to work knowing your not climbing a ladder all day.. I ENJOY WORK AGAIN
You have got me so excited saying that ;D
are you doing the change or you taking the mick out of me :)
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I've been cleaning windows for ten years now trad style and would not change for anything, you can't clean a window that you can't see. I was out a few weeks ago and a lad pulled up to do the house next door with a portable wfp it took him twice as long to do the same type of house that i was doing for the same price, he then had to roll up his hose and then put it back on his trailer to get to the next house, while i was already making more money cleaning my next house. In my view just a waste of time and money this guy was only making 60 quid a day and on a bad day i can make 120. It doesn;t take a genius to work out why i will never change!!!!
You couldn`t be more wrong with everything you`ve said and that comes from someone who was quick cleaning trad way,in a million years you will never earn more than someone using WFP who`s got experience.The guy you saw must be very in experienced and new to it,and as for 120 with the pole that`s a bad morning.
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we went wfp over six weeks ago (freedom trolley) wfp tops trad bottoms, we got the trolley because an employee was leaving and have a huge work load... in some, no most instances wfp is quicker but i think once all the windows on the round are prepared for wfp cleaning and we dont have to explain to every customer it will be significanly faster... at the moment we are making more money in the same days than when we had somebody working for us and the day is also a lot more chilled out... imagine i flew around wfp like i did stupidly with a ladder... anyway bottom line is its much better psychologicaly going to work knowing your not climbing a ladder all day.. I ENJOY WORK AGAIN
You have got me so excited saying that ;D
are you doing the change or you taking the mick out of me :)
Going over to the dark side in september ;D
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we went wfp over six weeks ago (freedom trolley) wfp tops trad bottoms, we got the trolley because an employee was leaving and have a huge work load... in some, no most instances wfp is quicker but i think once all the windows on the round are prepared for wfp cleaning and we dont have to explain to every customer it will be significanly faster... at the moment we are making more money in the same days than when we had somebody working for us and the day is also a lot more chilled out... imagine i flew around wfp like i did stupidly with a ladder... anyway bottom line is its much better psychologicaly going to work knowing your not climbing a ladder all day.. I ENJOY WORK AGAIN
You have got me so excited saying that ;D
are you doing the change or you taking the mick out of me :)
Going over to the dark side in september ;D
You have chosen the best time of the year to do it IMO.
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Well, Ive been WFP 4 months now. I could come on here and spout the figures I used to earn trad and the figures I earn now. However, its not all about figures, as Squeaks said he doesnt use half the energy he used to and is so much more fresher for work.
I love going to work now, its been so much more than a breath of fresh air for me, well, thats an understatement to be honest.
Figure-wise though, Id have to be institutionalised before I went back to ladder work voluntarily.
Matt
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we went wfp over six weeks ago (freedom trolley) wfp tops trad bottoms, we got the trolley because an employee was leaving and have a huge work load... in some, no most instances wfp is quicker but i think once all the windows on the round are prepared for wfp cleaning and we dont have to explain to every customer it will be significanly faster... at the moment we are making more money in the same days than when we had somebody working for us and the day is also a lot more chilled out... imagine i flew around wfp like i did stupidly with a ladder... anyway bottom line is its much better psychologicaly going to work knowing your not climbing a ladder all day.. I ENJOY WORK AGAIN
You have got me so excited saying that ;D
are you doing the change or you taking the mick out of me :)
Going over to the dark side in september ;D
you will get a few moaners, i left quite a few messes the first couple of weeks and did have a couple of doubts but i love going to work, when i get back from my hols im gonna get a van and convert top and bottoms... its ace, i seem to be learning a different technique every day to perfect the job.. there is nowt dark about it..
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Sorry again that`s 2 days on the trott,let me correct myself and say that end of oct early november is a very good time as the days are very short,90% of my customers were out most of the time so when i switched they didn`t even know.The short days cover up marks on the first few cleans and the next few months give you a head start on getting the windows up to scratch for those sunny days.
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i hear what your saying nwh i thought i was the only one who left a few marks on the first cleans ;D
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Im both, mainly WFP now though.
Dean.
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i know summer shows up marks ten fold, i also hate collecting on roasting days incase you have left marks they look herendous.
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i know summer shows up marks ten fold, i also hate collecting on roasting days incase you have left marks they look herendous.
That`s what i love about WFP when the windows are cleaned up even on sunny days 9 out of 10 there spotless,the same cannot be said for trad way.On a sunny day cleaning anyway trad you can leave bad bad marks and lines behind,regardless of how many times you clean them trad these mistakes and marks can appear every clean unlike WFP.IMO when you have your windows to a good standard WFP i find it a more reliable way of workin g on the whole.
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some sunny days trad its impossible, i have done 4th cleans now wfp there maybe is still 1 or 2 spots and i do mean 1 or 2 spots but each time i have been its just got better, am i right in thinking that say six months into cleaning it willl be near impossible to leave spots
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some sunny days trad its impossible, i have done 4th cleans now wfp there maybe is still 1 or 2 spots and i do mean 1 or 2 spots but each time i have been its just got better, am i right in thinking that say six months into cleaning it willl be near impossible to leave spots
i done it today, cleaned on tuesday, collected tonight seen it and just turned round having a laugh and said (that dosnt look good does it" he said no and laughed
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Well, Ive been WFP 4 months now. I could come on here and spout the figures I used to earn trad and the figures I earn now. However, its not all about figures, as Squeaks said he doesnt use half the energy he used to and is so much more fresher for work.
I love going to work now, its been so much more than a breath of fresh air for me, well, thats an understatement to be honest.
Figure-wise though, Id have to be institutionalised before I went back to ladder work voluntarily.
Matt
Even with a drought ? :-*
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Don`t forget your using the system day in day out you notice these little things here and there like the odd spot the customer dosen`t and that`s the reality of it.Beleive me the odd spot here and there is better than a load of lines from a squeeggee or marks from a grubby cloth,on the whole the customer knows it does a much better job if used correctly.
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Don`t forget your using the system day in day out you notice these little things here and there like the odd spot the customer dosen`t and that`s the reality of it.Beleive me the odd spot here and there is better than a load of lines from a squeeggee or marks from a grubby cloth,on the whole the customer knows it does a much better job if used correctly.
I dont want to dissagree with you , but when I have cleaned the windows trad they are spotless , I check after every window !
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i do the same, i always have a second and third glance but i dont care what anybody says when the sun comes out directly on te window it can show up marks that were not there before..
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Don`t forget your using the system day in day out you notice these little things here and there like the odd spot the customer dosen`t and that`s the reality of it.Beleive me the odd spot here and there is better than a load of lines from a squeeggee or marks from a grubby cloth,on the whole the customer knows it does a much better job if used correctly.
I dont want to dissagree with you , but when I have cleaned the windows trad they are spotless , I check after every window !
I do windows WFP and trad and don`t need to waste my time checking i`ve been doing the job to long,i instinctivley know it`s called experience.If the phones not ringing it means no ones moaning,my aim is to do as much as i can providing a good service and earning as much as possible,if your having to keep going round checking windows your doing something wrong and that`s not a dig at you it`s a fact.
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i do the same, i always have a second and third glance but i dont care what anybody says when the sun comes out directly on te window it can show up marks that were not there before..
Spot on,the windows trad can look perfect and when you`ve gone and the suns moved oh dear.
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doing it trad the sun is my worst enemy..
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there is loads too look at, the amount of things i have seen ;D
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doing it trad the sun is my worst enemy..
The sun sorts the goodn`s out from the badn`s.
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im extremely good at my job just takes a lot longer in the sun, 1 because you tire out faster and 2 no matter what and even the custys know it, it is harder to trad in the piping heat unless you get your water just right.... when i am trad i want let anybody else put the liquid in the bucket it has too be just right..
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Don`t forget your using the system day in day out you notice these little things here and there like the odd spot the customer dosen`t and that`s the reality of it.Beleive me the odd spot here and there is better than a load of lines from a squeeggee or marks from a grubby cloth,on the whole the customer knows it does a much better job if used correctly.
I dont want to dissagree with you , but when I have cleaned the windows trad they are spotless , I check after every window !
I do windows WFP and trad and don`t need to waste my time checking i`ve been doing the job to long,i instinctivley know it`s called experience.If the phones not ringing it means no ones moaning,my aim is to do as much as i can providing a good service and earning as much as possible,if your having to keep going round checking windows your doing something wrong and that`s not a dig at you it`s a fact.
I meant after cleaning each window , before going back down the ladder ;D
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BOTH WFP AND TRADITIONAL ARE RIGHT I FEEL A FEW CHEAP SHOTS ARE BEEN AIMED AT THE TRAD GUYS ON HERE.. AND THEY ARE PROBABLY THE ONES WHO HAVE HAD THE MOST EXPERIENCE OF RUNNING A SUCCESFULL BUSINESS!!
IF IT AINT BROKE DON,T FIX IT...
PS I CLEAN BOTH WFP AND TRAD
Hey thats my saying (lol)
wfp is definately better NO LADDERS for starters,its quicker I love it.
I still have about 10 trad bungalows and hate it,it sucks the life out of me and I find it incredibly boring.
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looks like the trad guys wont be out tomorow, met office is saying were in for a pretty gusty day...
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looks like the trad guys wont be out tomorow, met office is saying were in for a pretty gusty day...
That's going to stuff your wfp finish then smartarse.
Can't rely on wet windows when there's dust flying about.
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looks like the trad guys wont be out tomorow, met office is saying were in for a pretty gusty day...
just got in ....had a cracking day on ladder ............bloody windy too.....
cooking me a curry now while i count me cash.... :P
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looks like the trad guys wont be out tomorow, met office is saying were in for a pretty gusty day...
just got in ....had a cracking day on ladder ............bloody windy too.....
cooking me a curry now while i count me cash.... :P
i spoke to soon, 8.00am we boe the flow master on the trolley so were on the ladders for the day :-\
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never mind ay......
bet ur legs ull be killing u 2moz.............. :'(
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£70 for a flow master £79 delivered, never mind :-\, im off on my holidays for 2 weeks on sunday... half a day left tomorow morning doing shop fromts and then thast me ;D
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I've been cleaning windows for ten years now trad style and would not change for anything, you can't clean a window that you can't see. I was out a few weeks ago and a lad pulled up to do the house next door with a portable wfp it took him twice as long to do the same type of house that i was doing for the same price, he then had to roll up his hose and then put it back on his trailer to get to the next house, while i was already making more money cleaning my next house. In my view just a waste of time and money this guy was only making 60 quid a day and on a bad day i can make 120. It doesn;t take a genius to work out why i will never change!!!!
You couldn`t be more wrong with everything you`ve said and that comes from someone who was quick cleaning trad way,in a million years you will never earn more than someone using WFP who`s got experience.The guy you saw must be very in experienced and new to it,and as for 120 with the pole that`s a bad morning.
NWH,
Do you sell WFP's or something? I am finding it hard to believe how narrow minded you are. You make such sweeping statements. I don't know what your round is like - what you say may well apply to your round. It doesn't apply to mine, the window cleaners I know, and countless others I'm sure.
Either your on the wind up, or were not anywhere near as quick trad as you thought you were. I do both WFP and trad, so do many of us here. Yes, WFP may be a bit quicker on a standard house - but remember the extra cost and hassal involved. That time you save is really counter-balanced by the aforementioned factors.
I'm afraid this elitist bullpoop is starting to ruin a potentially good site for me.
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I've been cleaning windows for ten years now trad style and would not change for anything, you can't clean a window that you can't see. I was out a few weeks ago and a lad pulled up to do the house next door with a portable wfp it took him twice as long to do the same type of house that i was doing for the same price, he then had to roll up his hose and then put it back on his trailer to get to the next house, while i was already making more money cleaning my next house. In my view just a waste of time and money this guy was only making 60 quid a day and on a bad day i can make 120. It doesn;t take a genius to work out why i will never change!!!!
You couldn`t be more wrong with everything you`ve said and that comes from someone who was quick cleaning trad way,in a million years you will never earn more than someone using WFP who`s got experience.The guy you saw must be very in experienced and new to it,and as for 120 with the pole that`s a bad morning.
NWH,
Do you sell WFP's or something? I am finding it hard to believe how narrow minded you are. You make such sweeping statements. I don't know what your round is like - what you say may well apply to your round. It doesn't apply to mine, the window cleaners I know, and countless others I'm sure.
Either your on the wind up, or were not anywhere near as quick trad as you thought you were. I do both WFP and trad, so do many of us here. Yes, WFP may be a bit quicker on a standard house - but remember the extra cost and hassal involved. That time you save is really counter-balanced by the aforementioned factors.
I'm afraid this elitist bullpoop is starting to ruin a potentially good site for me.
I'm wfp these days, but I know exactly what you mean.
I get fed up of that attitude too.
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I've been cleaning windows for ten years now trad style and would not change for anything, you can't clean a window that you can't see. I was out a few weeks ago and a lad pulled up to do the house next door with a portable wfp it took him twice as long to do the same type of house that i was doing for the same price, he then had to roll up his hose and then put it back on his trailer to get to the next house, while i was already making more money cleaning my next house. In my view just a waste of time and money this guy was only making 60 quid a day and on a bad day i can make 120. It doesn;t take a genius to work out why i will never change!!!!
You couldn`t be more wrong with everything you`ve said and that comes from someone who was quick cleaning trad way,in a million years you will never earn more than someone using WFP who`s got experience.The guy you saw must be very in experienced and new to it,and as for 120 with the pole that`s a bad morning.
NWH,
Do you sell WFP's or something? I am finding it hard to believe how narrow minded you are. You make such sweeping statements. I don't know what your round is like - what you say may well apply to your round. It doesn't apply to mine, the window cleaners I know, and countless others I'm sure.
Either your on the wind up, or were not anywhere near as quick trad as you thought you were. I do both WFP and trad, so do many of us here. Yes, WFP may be a bit quicker on a standard house - but remember the extra cost and hassal involved. That time you save is really counter-balanced by the aforementioned factors.
I'm afraid this elitist bullpoop is starting to ruin a potentially good site for me.
I'm wfp these days, but I know exactly what you mean.
I get fed up of that attitude too.
And that`s coming from a miserable sod of the highest order,it`s not an attitude it`s the truth.If you don`t like it don`t come on here,if you spout rubbish you will get a reply and a truthfull 1 from me i`m not going to agree with you because that`s your opinion,that`s what all replies are opinions ifyou don`t like it log off.
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I dont think its your opinion he doesnt necessarily dislike, its probably your manners.
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I dont think its your opinion he doesnt necessarily dislike, its probably your manners.
I just hope you got that signwriting changed lol. ;D ;D ;D
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(http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q1/ii2.jpg)
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And that`s coming from a miserable sod of the highest order,it`s not an attitude it`s the truth.If you don`t like it don`t come on here,if you spout rubbish you will get a reply and a truthfull 1 from me i`m not going to agree with you because that`s your opinion,that`s what all replies are opinions ifyou don`t like it log off.
I ain't miserable mate. ;)
Workwise I've got nothing to miserable about, I'm doing fine.
What does do my head in though is people like you putting others down because you think you're bigger and better.
You're a window cleaner too, just like them.
Get over it, and respect other's views.
Your's aren't always right.
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And that`s coming from a miserable sod of the highest order,it`s not an attitude it`s the truth.If you don`t like it don`t come on here,if you spout rubbish you will get a reply and a truthfull 1 from me i`m not going to agree with you because that`s your opinion,that`s what all replies are opinions ifyou don`t like it log off.
I ain't miserable mate. ;)
Workwise I've got nothing to miserable about, I'm doing fine.
What does do my head in though is people like you putting others down because you think you're bigger and better.
You're a window cleaner too, just like them.
Get over it, and respect other's views.
Your's aren't always right.
It`s not a case of thinking i`m better than you or anybody else it`s a case of being honest like someone said trad is quicker or as quick as WFP what a stupid statement to make,if trad was better or quicker i wouldn`t have spent nearly 20k on a van and setup i`m not daft.If people want to come on here and massage peoples ego`s all the time good luck to them but they will learn nothing,if something looks good or someone does well fair play to them but i won`t say it is just to make them feel better i`ll say it because in my veiw it`s an honest opinion.Squeaky i have never ever read a post of you saying what a good day you had or that you`ve picked up new work etc,if i was being HONEST i would say that deep down you hate window cleaning and do it cos you can`t be Ar**d to do anything else.
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Though your signwriting was good Matt, clear and simple.
I don't know why we get into these arguments. Squeaky rise above it, you've got moderator written all over you, don't get red carded in the semi. If you are going to get sent off wait untill you are a mod and then do something awfull.
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Though your signwriting was good Matt, clear and simple.
but its not clear, scripty or hand written type fonts are simply not clear
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if trad was better or quicker i wouldn`t have spent nearly 20k on a van and setup i`m not daft
;D Really?
I don't see the benefit of spending that type of money, we are in business to earn, not spend arn't we?
I learnt a painful lesson a few years back. A number of my customers drop money through the door, most of my work is local. The Mrs has a good job, and bought a Mercedes 4x4. I lost 2 customers, took stick when putting my prices up and had the odd comment made here and there. I took from that its best to play the humble role in our job. Let people look down on you if it makes them feel better. You make more money that way.
In a similar way, I think flash vans are counter productive. People think your charging too much. You ask the average Joe how much a window cleaner earns, he'd say very little. Might be bad for the ego, but good for the pocket. More tips etc. from kind hearted souls who think we are struggling, and easier for us to put our prices up.
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if trad was better or quicker i wouldn`t have spent nearly 20k on a van and setup i`m not daft
;D Really?
I don't see the benefit of spending that type of money, we are in business to earn, not spend arn't we?
I learnt a painful lesson a few years back. A number of my customers drop money through the door, most of my work is local. The Mrs has a good job, and bought a Mercedes 4x4. I lost 2 customers, took stick when putting my prices up and had the odd comment made here and there. I took from that its best to play the humble role in our job. Let people look down on you if it makes them feel better. You make more money that way.
In a similar way, I think flash vans are counter productive. People think your charging too much. You ask the average Joe how much a window cleaner earns, he'd say very little. Might be bad for the ego, but good for the pocket. More tips etc. from kind hearted souls who think we are struggling, and easier for us to put our prices up.
you are targeting the wrong customers then!! i agree with being humble, no need to go out collecting in a brand new merc or anything (thats if you still collect at all) ;D but new vans and professional image = you can charge more money!!
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but new vans and professional image = you can charge more money!!
I'd love to do a study on that - I bet you are wrong. An old but tidy van creates the impression I strive for.
Think of it if you were the customer...
We are just people who clean dirt of peoples windows at the end of the day. If you look like your making more than they are, naturally they are not going to be happy. Human nature.
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but new vans and professional image = you can charge more money!!
I'd love to do a study on that - I bet you are wrong. An old but tidy van creates the impression I strive for.
Think of it if you were the customer...
We are just people who clean dirt of peoples windows at the end of the day. If you look like your making more than they are, naturally they are not going to be happy. Human nature.
i repeat you target the wrong customer if thats how they feel
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So what are you saying specifically? I should go for people with bigger houses?
You can't judge someones personality by looking at their house can you?
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what i'm saying is if you target people that like you turning up in a battered old van then they are the wrong customers. i sign up more customers being more expensive than there last WC as i portray a decent professional image. if they want cheap and cheerful then they ain't the right customer to have
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If i go out tomorrow and buy and brand new top of the range VW transporter all bells and whistles it would make no difference to my customers beleive me,do you honestly think that merchant bankers-barristers and my brother in law is 1 by the way give a monkeys toss about what van the WC turns up in get real.These people in some cases are on 2 million £ bonuses at the end of the year and earn far far in excess of what we earn as a basic,they by houses as a tax loss at the end of the year we by a new pole.If your cleaning council houses alday then i see your point but i don`t,your opinion only falls into the catagory of your customers and there small minded veiws my customers see the bigger picture and smile to themselves when they see me cleaning there windows quiet in the comfort that they have and will continue to have more than me,what van i drive means completley absolutley nothing to them.
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Well, I don't target people as such, I target property or businesses. I also charge right at the high end. I'm the dearest in town probably, although like to think I provide the best service.
These "jealous" people for want of a better word, had houses both bigger and smaller than mine, I just figured it was human nature. They were in the small minority. But how many people thought it, without vocalising it? To be honest thats what I would be thinking! Any time a tradesman turns up in a mint van, I'm on my guard and expect a high price. I'd sooner his overheads were a bit lower, and thus his price.
Just to be clear, the my van is 5 years old, but pretty immaculate. I have thought about getting a newer model, but can't really see what good it would do. Perhaps I'm wrong, but the incident with my wifes 4x4 put me off the idea.
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If i go out tomorrow and buy and brand new top of the range VW transporter all bells and whistles it would make no difference to my customers beleive me,do you honestly think that merchant bankers-barristers and my brother in law is 1 by the way give a monkeys toss about what van the WC turns up in get real.These people in some cases are on 2 million £ bonuses at the end of the year and earn far far in excess of what we earn as a basic,they by houses as a tax loss at the end of the year we by a new pole.If your cleaning council houses alday then i see your point but i don`t,your opinion only falls into the catagory of your customers and there small minded veiws my customers see the bigger picture and smile to themselves when they see me cleaning there windows quiet in the comfort that they have and will continue to have more than me,what van i drive means completley absolutley nothing to them.
I agree with you, I'm sure they don't care if they are that rich.
So all the more, why spend 20k?
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Squeaky i have never ever read a post of you saying what a good day you had or that you`ve picked up new work etc...
Probably not, because I don't see the need to tell everybody when things are going good.
If I'm satisfied that's good enough for me.
If I've had a problem then that's what the forum's for. Help and support.
Ok, if it makes you feel better...
I worked half day monday, 5 hours tuesday, yesterday off and worked today for 5 hours.
My bills are all covered and I've still got some left over.
..and there's still tomorrow yet...
Aren't I great? ;D
See? Annoying isn't it? Pointless too.
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Your depriving yourself of a new vehicle because your worried about what Mr & Mrs Smith will think that`s the truth,if your cleaning houses where you have far more than them then i would say you should set your sights higher,i do very well but i can say hand on heart that my customers do a lot better and that`s the way i like it.If i ask Mrs Smith for £50 she`ll gasp at the thought,if i ask Mr merchant banker he will say that`s fine and heres £20 for your trouble.
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Squeaky i have never ever read a post of you saying what a good day you had or that you`ve picked up new work etc...
Probably not, because I don't see the need to tell everybody when things are going good.
If I'm satisfied that's good enough for me.
If I've had a problem then that's what the forum's for. Help and support.
Ok, if it makes you feel better...
I worked half day monday, 5 hours tuesday, yesterday off and worked today for 5 hours.
My bills are all covered and I've still got some left over.
..and there's still tomorrow yet...
Aren't I great? ;D
See? Annoying isn't it? Pointless too.
See what i mean,lazy git lol.If you loved it you`d be out at the crack of dawn.
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Think business change there vans every four years is because it makes financial sense.
If you are running a older van maybe you have not got a big enough business to warrant this.
Don't get the wrong idea, I'm not looking for an argument. I just don't understand the financial reasons behind this.
I earn around 38k gross per year. That will be the same whether my van is 5 years old or brand new. Won't I just be increasing my overheads by having a newer van?
Why does it make "financial sense"? Is it tax implications you are refering to?
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See what i mean,lazy git lol.If you loved it you`d be out at the crack of dawn.
Don't think I've got any customers called Dawn.
The missus will be relieved. ;D
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Your depriving yourself of a new vehicle because your worried about what Mr & Mrs Smith will think that`s the truth,if your cleaning houses where you have far more than them then i would say you should set your sights higher,i do very well but i can say hand on heart that my customers do a lot better and that`s the way i like it.If i ask Mrs Smith for £50 she`ll gasp at the thought,if i ask Mr merchant banker he will say that`s fine and heres £20 for your trouble.
Perhaps you have money to burn, I don't know. If you really want a quality van that much in your life, and can afford it, and all the other things you want, good luck to you I guess. I do pretty well, but have to make choices. I'd sooner spend less on the van and have other things in life.
I wouldn't say, I'm "depriving" myself of a van. I'm not too bothered what I drive to work, I'm only cleaning windows. I'd sooner have a few finer things in life, maybe a couple of extra foreign holidays a year.
On the other hand, if it makes financial sense to have a new van, I'm all ears.
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Though your signwriting was good Matt, clear and simple.
but its not clear, scripty or hand written type fonts are simply not clear
I can resize the pic to life-size if you like, perhaps you need glasses
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i have glasses thanks, perhaps you need a bit of class ;)
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i have glasses thanks, perhaps you need a bit of class ;)
What a totally pointless and meaningless comment, its my van so f***off
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i have glasses thanks, perhaps you need a bit of class ;)
lol you said it. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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learn to take if you want to give!! ;D
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Whos giving?
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i have glasses thanks, perhaps you need a bit of class ;)
lol you said it. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
i did didn't i ;)
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Whos giving?
let me think ::)
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In this life-time please
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not in a previous life to go with that old fashioned font you have!! ;D
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Who's a giver, who's a taker? :o
You're on the wrong forum guys. ;D
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Who's a giver, who's a taker? :o
You're on the wrong forum guys. ;D
Does that say Guy`s or lol ;D ;D ;D
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Who's a giver, who's a taker? :o
You're on the wrong forum guys. ;D
Does that say Guy`s or lol ;D ;D ;D
you two would me most suited if it was that kind of forum!! ;D ;D
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Had enough, its been said before by others, so I wont bother expanding on why, but others have deleted their accounts for the same reason.
Matt
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His sign writing was very good. Clear and simple. He also got a very good van at a modest price and everything he did he did well. Why were you lot nit picking?
Yes i would have got a bigger van and tank, but he explained that's what he wanted. And yes I would have made the jump quicker and sooner, but again he explained he wanted the business to finance it as he went along and not to get into debt.
So very often we argue over nothing. He had a cracking little van and system with sensible sign writing that he put up for our comments. Why couldn't you let him feel good about it?
Do you really have to win every argument? Is that important that you have the last word?
I do have a history of arguing on this forum, but at least I stick to the issues.
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Toys out of the pram brigade,why come back on as a guest that was the bit that made me lol the most seeing him commenting as a guest.How can chatting on a forum get someone so het up,i`ll massage his ego later on that`ll get him back lol. ;D ;D ;D
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His sign writing was very good. Clear and simple. He also got a very good van at a modest price and everything he did he did well. Why were you lot nit picking?
Yes i would have got a bigger van and tank, but he explained that's what he wanted. And yes I would have made the jump quicker and sooner, but again he explained he wanted the business to finance it as he went along and not to get into debt.
So very often we argue over nothing. He had a cracking little van and system with sensible sign writing that he put up for our comments. Why couldn't you let him feel good about it?
Do you really have to win every argument? Is that important that you have the last word?
I do have a history of arguing on this forum, but at least I stick to the issues.
i did stick to the issue until he made a snide remark, i was merely stating that font is terrible. its my opinion, he didn't have to listen but then he had to make a snide remark so he got one back. was it really that bad that he had to delete his account? he should learn to stand up for himself if he wants to start with the arguments ::) as NWH states, toys and pram spring to mind ::)
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they mare trying to get us off ladder coz they say it is safer blummin well slippen on something wheni was backing up with my pole the other day damaged my knee and that was on the ground lord help us its such a dangerous job..but someone has to do it....
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looks like the trad guys wont be out tomorow, met office is saying were in for a pretty gusty day...
full day in using trad
so did i, like i said trolley broke first thing so i climbed all day in the wind which was pretty strong at some points.
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looks like the trad guys wont be out tomorow, met office is saying were in for a pretty gusty day...
full day in using trad
so did i, like i said trolley broke first thing so i climbed all day in the wind which was pretty strong at some points.
worst thing about climbing ladders in the wind is when you are half way up the ladder ! You ask yourself " am i safer in the middle or should i climb to the top " LOL ;D
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i agree with that when your half way up your vunerable so i hurry up and climb to the top...
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i agree with that when your half way up your vunerable so i hurry up and climb to the top...
cowboys.......lol ;D
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i agree with that when your half way up your vunerable so i hurry up and climb to the top...
cowboys.......lol ;D
yeah because cowboys always climb ladders and anyhow im wfp
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i agree with that when your half way up your vunerable so i hurry up and climb to the top...
cowboys.......lol ;D
yeah because cowboys always climb ladders and anyhow im wfp
y u taking the hump??????
u was nt wfp the other day was u ............u was up a LADDER....
TUT TUT TUT
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because the equipment broke and i need money :(
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Ok, if it makes you feel better...
I worked half day monday, 5 hours tuesday, yesterday off and worked today for 5 hours.
My bills are all covered and I've still got some left over.
..and there's still tomorrow yet...
Squeaks,
That's strange! What is?
You working!
I hear one of your customers in Brockweir says that you've told her you've been ill; that's why you haven't been turning up? ;D
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I hear one of your customers in Brockweir says that you've told her you've been ill; that's why you haven't been turning up? ;D
I have no idea what you're on about. ??? ::)
Don't go spouting your rubbish again and trying to make me look small.
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I hear one of your customers in Brockweir says that you've told her you've been ill; that's why you haven't been turning up? ;D
I have no idea what you're on about. ??? ::)
Don't go spouting your rubbish again and trying to make me look small.
Okay, mate, I won't!
Don't be so quick to bite either!
It was nothing too bad! ;D
But you've got to get those prices up mate!
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There he's spoken to you now.Take that stuff off the bottom of your post.
I can see why you want to tell him stuff tosh, a bit like me me trying to tell jeff to get a van, but in the end you have to mind your own business.
It's like telling someone their wife's having an affair.You wish you'd kept quiet.
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I hear one of your customers in Brockweir says that you've told her you've been ill; that's why you haven't been turning up? ;D
I have no idea what you're on about. ??? ::)
Don't go spouting your rubbish again and trying to make me look small.
Okay, mate, I won't!
Don't be so quick to bite either!
It was nothing too bad! ;D
But you've got to get those prices up mate!
I suppose you've got better work than me now? ::)
I can make more money than I need (probably what you'd like to be able to), if I really wanted to.
Why should I take any notice of someone who's been in the game half the time I have?
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There he's spoken to you now.Take that stuff off the bottom of your post.
I can see why you want to tell him stuff tosh, a bit like me me trying to tell jeff to get a van, but in the end you have to mind your own business.
It's like telling someone their wife's having an affair.You wish you'd kept quiet.
Cheers mate. ;)
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this is the biggest tangent ive seen on here to date!!!
who is this NWA MWN YWAN what ever his name is fella? is he like the God of window cleaning? hes like the charlie from big brother of window cleaning ''checkme out aint i great''? lol please!
oh and i didnt like the font either mate sorry if youdidnt want to here that but thats just the wat it is. dont get me wrong it was easy on the eyebut no award winner.