[mr D]

I haven't been here long, but I have been quite taken aback by this wfp versus trad thing.  I have 13 years experience trad, and 2 years wfp.  A good friend of mine got me into the wfp thing.  While it has advantages, it has disadvantages.  I feel the wfp crew exaggerate the difference,  just to get at the trad guys.  I feel wfp is overrated here, if your a quick trad guy there isn't much in it.  Factor in the extra cost of wfp, there is little to choose in my opinion.

If you can do both well, your laughing - they both have a place.  If I know what I know now though, I don't know I'd have bothered with wfp.  I would simply go trad and, target work that suited trad.



In summary, I think what you read here from wfp guys is often due to the fact they are on the wind up, or were slow trad window cleaners.  I'm sure wfp suits some rounds more than others, so I'm sure there are a few guys just speaking as they find. 

wonderful reply that you hit on some good factors ive been thinking of. 'if your a quick trad guy there isn't much in it'. so true. ive raced wfp guys where i live and knocked there socks off. so its dont to who has the tools in there hand, also relatest to 'due to the fact they are on the wind up, or were slow trad window cleaners'.

as fro the reply from wally, i hear ya doode but i think you miss read what i ment, i know there are loads of trad guys on the stree. i see them from time to time but i ment where have they gone from this forum! but as there has been a better reply than i 1st thought i'm happy to see i'm not the only 1.

i think there are alot of w/c who have been sold alot of kit costing to much money that feel a bit silly so there answer is to put down other w/c to make them feel better. bit like small man syndrom! good on you guys that dont. you help convert non wfp's (like me) to looking in to it as an assett to there business where as those that sling mud just put us off!.

[Joe Lauzon]

i think there are alot of w/c who have been sold alot of kit costing to much money that feel a bit silly so there answer is to put down other w/c to make them feel better.

Good point.  My mate is a great example, he will rip into the trad guys down the pub, wind them up about how much he makes.  Truth is he feels a bit like me.  The investment doesn't feel so bad now, but when you consider the initial grief of setting up a wfp round, we both have had times when we felt like suckers.

[stig]

trad is for cowboys, surely you should know this by now

who you calling a cow boy wallybrain........ i am making a decent living trad ........... av done for twenty three yrs now.....    and will carry on doing so pal.....i am investing in waterfed soon due to expansion commercial side of it... window cleaning dont need muppetts like you slagging trad off...

[AJ]

Trads can't do 5th floor, wfp's can't do insides.
Put the 2 together and you're set.
To call yourself a window cleaner you MUST be able to trad.
If you can't, what do you say to custies that want a shop front done in a shopping precinct or someone wants their insides done or their mirrors or their sash windows on the 8th floor etc etc.
There are two side to a pane of glass, if you can't trad you are potentially losing out on 50% of the available work.
Anyway, as long as the window is clean, who gives a wotsname how it gets that way.
One mans rubbish is another mans treasure.

[mr D]

not 100% true. i can clean 5th floor trad. but dont tell every one!

[Sir Squeaky]

You can clean 35th floor trad on a cradle.
Like to see wfp do that.

[LSB]

IM TRAD !
im absolutely convinced that my round is not conducive to wfp , and therefore it wont be !
i am however intending to buy a freedom trolley ( soon ) , for any future work that i may require it for , i also have quite a number of contracts that in time i may convert , but houses , no !

LSB / TRAD .

[AJ]

You can clean 35th floor trad on a cradle.
Like to see wfp do that.

Exactly, so if people can't trad they would have to turn this 35 floor job down.
The squeegee has had no modification in the way it works since it was invented, so it can't be that bad.

[AJ]

Mr D.
You must wear unfeasably large pants.

[Londoner]

I am with Lloyds TSB and thats where I bank my money every Friday. THEY don't give toss whether I am trad or WFP. Its all just money to them.

I don't give a toss either, just so happens I am mainly WFP but its all a way of making money to me.

[twt]

By the way some people talk about ladders on here i think all the trad cleaners have died after falling off their ladders and thats why we don't here from them!

[james44]

Started trad went wfp went back trad now only do tops wfp

 prefer trad wfp does me head in thers so much that can go

wrong , equipment breaking down hoses snagging it`s
easier to use than climbing a ladder but such a pain,

[Paul Coleman]

I haven't been here long, but I have been quite taken aback by this wfp versus trad thing.  I have 13 years experience trad, and 2 years wfp.  A good friend of mine got me into the wfp thing.  While it has advantages, it has disadvantages.  I feel the wfp crew exaggerate the difference,  just to get at the trad guys.  I feel wfp is overrated here, if your a quick trad guy there isn't much in it.  Factor in the extra cost of wfp, there is little to choose in my opinion.

If you can do both well, your laughing - they both have a place.  If I know what I know now though, I don't know I'd have bothered with wfp.  I would simply go trad and, target work that suited trad.

In summary, I think what you read here from wfp guys is often due to the fact they are on the wind up, or were slow trad window cleaners.  I'm sure wfp suits some rounds more than others, so I'm sure there are a few guys just speaking as they find. 

I reckon I was about average speed with trad myself.  WFP has certainly speeded me up but it needed to because, as you say, there are higher ongoing costs.  My turnover is way up from what it was.  My profit is up quite a bit too.  As for the quality I think it would be fair to say that on most of my work, most of the time, WFP is as good as trad.  Sometimes it's better IMO due to the frame washing.  Sometimes it's worse due to dodgy seals, vents, oxidising of frames, and difficulties shifting fly poo (if that's what it is).
I actually have some jobs that only take half the time they used to.  There is a time saving on nearly all of my jobs.  On a few there isn't.

[windowwashers]

I haven't been here long, but I have been quite taken aback by this wfp versus trad thing.  I have 13 years experience trad, and 2 years wfp.  A good friend of mine got me into the wfp thing.  While it has advantages, it has disadvantages.  I feel the wfp crew exaggerate the difference,  just to get at the trad guys.  I feel wfp is overrated here, if your a quick trad guy there isn't much in it.  Factor in the extra cost of wfp, there is little to choose in my opinion.

If you can do both well, your laughing - they both have a place.  If I know what I know now though, I don't know I'd have bothered with wfp.  I would simply go trad and, target work that suited trad.

In summary, I think what you read here from wfp guys is often due to the fact they are on the wind up, or were slow trad window cleaners.  I'm sure wfp suits some rounds more than others, so I'm sure there are a few guys just speaking as they find. 

I reckon I was about average speed with trad myself.  WFP has certainly speeded me up but it needed to because, as you say, there are higher ongoing costs.  My turnover is way up from what it was.  My profit is up quite a bit too.  As for the quality I think it would be fair to say that on most of my work, most of the time, WFP is as good as trad.  Sometimes it's better IMO due to the frame washing.  Sometimes it's worse due to dodgy seals, vents, oxidising of frames, and difficulties shifting fly poo (if that's what it is).
I actually have some jobs that only take half the time they used to.  There is a time saving on nearly all of my jobs.  On a few there isn't.

Shiner have you read my post I need you to call me asap, it is in your interest

Ian

[Rob.Hall]

I do both and love both.

Custy gets what they want either way.

Some jobs are much faster trad than wfp.

Oh no,  I think I am going to get a slagging.

[Sir Squeaky]

I do both and love both.

Custy gets what they want either way.

Some jobs are much faster trad than wfp.

Oh no,  I think I am going to get a slagging.

Not from me.
You're right, shop fronts are certainly quicker trad.
Most small bungalows too.

The bigger the job, the more time wfp saves you.

There's a need for both.

[cvdewsbury]

BOTH WFP AND TRADITIONAL ARE RIGHT I FEEL A FEW CHEAP SHOTS ARE BEEN AIMED AT THE TRAD GUYS ON HERE.. AND THEY ARE PROBABLY THE ONES WHO HAVE HAD THE MOST EXPERIENCE OF RUNNING A SUCCESFULL BUSINESS!!

IF IT AINT BROKE DON,T FIX IT...


PS I CLEAN BOTH WFP AND TRAD

[sjm]

I can sense a wind change here    We all need both trad and wfp 

[L.J.Thorpe]

3 yrs trad 15 mths wfp
out of nearly 400 jobs i trad 5 of em
all these jobs are ground floor jobs and large panes
any time advantage (which is minimal or even non existent on this type of work) is outweighed by the volume of water used. No point saving 5 minutes if you are using 2 or 3 houses worth of water to do so imo.I went diy route so dont need to justify a massive investment and my experience of wfp is that the more you use it the better it gets,it can halve the time taken on some jobs and with good technique is AT LEAST as good as trad.The World Is Full Of Crappy Window Cleaners
just be as good as you can be with pole or scrim
turn up regular
do it your way.....just do it well
oh........and if you cant trad then FLIPPING WELL LEARN TO

[sjm]

I am trad and do not think I would ever become WFP due to me living in a terrace house with a tiny garden so nowhere to put all the stuff.

same here if i take the dog out in the car ive to put all my kit in the front room,the wheelie bins are outside the gate as the ladders are in the yard.so i will stay trsd

Thats a thought . . . . . how much water would a wheelie bin hold ?