Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Lee Burbidge on November 03, 2013, 09:59:04 am
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Ok, as part of a article we are doing for PPB we are now looking for anyone that has bought a PPB system and love it. We have some details of the Zero owners at the moment and looking forward to their input but who else is out there?
We want to make the article as rounded as possible so looking for ppl that are:
1) Thinking of DIY'ing a PPB system
2) Think its a waste of time PPM is served them well
3) Used PPB but cant see the benefits
4) Used PPB and think its helped them
Also, if you have questions about PPB for your TDS tap water area, in fact any question at all and you would like a PPB answer, post it here and we will use the answer to get the question :)
BTW we did a full talk through video on the Zero PPB system - this might drum up some questions or comments you might like to post here.
http://youtu.be/wJkHKsC6670
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I imagine PPB water is more soluble and so breaks down dirt 'quicker' ?
Because if its just the case that there is less solid in the water, PPM suffices so why do we need to filter more?
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I imagine PPB water is more soluble and so breaks down dirt 'quicker' ?
Because if its just the case that there is less solid in the water, PPM suffices so why do we need to filter more?
Users claim it helps with infrequent cleans... your thoughts?
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I imagine PPB water is more soluble and so breaks down dirt 'quicker' ?
Because if its just the case that there is less solid in the water, PPM suffices so why do we need to filter more?
Users claim it helps with infrequent cleans... your thoughts?
My thoughts are it's BULL!!!
Marketing tripe from the kings of it!! ;) False justification of both the system & it's price tag!!
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My thoughts are it's BULL!!!
Marketing tripe from the kings of it!! ;) False justification of both the system & it's price tag!!
I couldn't agree more.
What next, one part per trillion?
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I imagine PPB water is more soluble and so breaks down dirt 'quicker' ?
Because if its just the case that there is less solid in the water, PPM suffices so why do we need to filter more?
Users claim it helps with infrequent cleans... your thoughts?
My thoughts are it's BULL!!!
Marketing tripe from the kings of it!! ;) False justification of both the system & it's price tag!!
Have you tried a demo of such a machine?
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Haven't tried one, nor do I feel I need to.
You can only brush and rinse as fast your arms can go, and on maintenance cleans, one pass is all that's needed, so, nor needed for that.
One offs and infrequent cleans, you need to agitate the dirt, which then runs off the glass, leaving 000ppm on the glass. The water doesn't dissolve dirt, it merely is a vehicle to gather the dust etc and take it off the surface by rinsing. PPB water left in the glass will only result in the same finish if rinsed sufficiently.
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Haven't tried one, nor do I feel I need to.
You can only brush and rinse as fast your arms can go, and on maintenance cleans, one pass is all that's needed, so, nor needed for that.
One offs and infrequent cleans, you need to agitate the dirt, which then runs off the glass, leaving 000ppm on the glass. The water doesn't dissolve dirt, it merely is a vehicle to gather the dust etc and take it off the surface by rinsing. PPB water left in the glass will only result in the same finish if rinsed sufficiently.
Totally agree .
They are masters of marketing .
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We have Ionics ppb static system. Everything is automated, we're saving money on filters and resin. It's a great bit of kit. Gives us the edge on infrequent cleans
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I prefer a simple system , easy to fix .
I can see advantages to the automation though and there kit is very well made and customer service excellent .
Cant see it giving much if any speed advantage though .
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how does it give the edge on infrequent cleans ,than lets say a hot water system which is god know how much cheaper.
everyone say how good hot is on 1st clean
so can you please explain you findings
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We have Ionics ppb static system. Everything is automated, we're saving money on filters and resin. It's a great bit of kit. Gives us the edge on infrequent cleans
My static system is fully automated also...
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Old hat I sent out many replays from June @ gaps water PPB is probably pure bull! :o
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I imagine PPB water is more soluble and so breaks down dirt 'quicker' ?
Because if its just the case that there is less solid in the water, PPM suffices so why do we need to filter more?
Users claim it helps with infrequent cleans... your thoughts?
I cannot imagine it helps enough to warrant the cost...
No more better than hot PPM...
Surely there comes a point where you cant physically clean any faster, no matter what you use, so unless you squirt PPB at dirt, and the dirt runs away i personally cant see the point...
Others may disagree though
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I wonder how many tradders said that WFP wouldn't work.
Until they tried it.
Personally, I shall await Lee's findings.
As far as I know he has no vested interest so will be impartial.
We don't know, it may make us more money.
I'm up for that.
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We are thinking of buying the top end ppb stainless steel hot system
It would be interesting to see comments
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I wonder how many tradders said that WFP wouldn't work.
Until they tried it.
Personally, I shall await Lee's findings.
As far as I know he has no vested interest so will be impartial.
We don't know, it may make us more money.
I'm up for that.
How will it make you more money?
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I wonder how many tradders said that WFP wouldn't work.
Until they tried it.
Personally, I shall await Lee's findings.
As far as I know he has no vested interest so will be impartial.
We don't know, it may make us more money.
I'm up for that.
How will it make you more money?
Because Ionics say it will!!!!!!!!!! ;D ;D
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I wonder how many tradders said that WFP wouldn't work.
Until they tried it.
Personally, I shall await Lee's findings.
As far as I know he has no vested interest so will be impartial.
We don't know, it may make us more money.
I'm up for that.
How will it make you more money?
Won't know till I've tried it.
WFP makes more money than trad.
Fibreglass poles more than ali
Carbon more than fibreglass
Hot water than cold
That's the thing-we don't know till we try...
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I wonder how many tradders said that WFP wouldn't work.
Until they tried it.
Personally, I shall await Lee's findings.
As far as I know he has no vested interest so will be impartial.
We don't know, it may make us more money.
I'm up for that.
How will it make you more money?
Won't know till I've tried it.
WFP makes more money than trad.
Fibreglass poles more than ali
Carbon more than fibreglass
Hot water than cold
That's the thing-we don't know till we try...
Surely you can see the differences between your comparisons and a PPB v PPM system though?
I may be wrong, however, look at what I wrote previously. If in fact these systems are PROVEN to save enough time on cleaning, therefore earning you more money, provided you have the work to fill the time saved of course...
Now, let's for arguments sake say it saved you 30 minutes per day, at say what £30 per hour? So that's £15 extra you can earn, provided you have work to do of course, or you get home 30 mins earlier.
Cost of system? £10,000?
So Gould need to do 666.67 days do earn its money, based on 240 working days a year, it's nearly 3 years to make it pay for itself.
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I wonder how many tradders said that WFP wouldn't work.
Until they tried it.
Personally, I shall await Lee's findings.
As far as I know he has no vested interest so will be impartial.
We don't know, it may make us more money.
I'm up for that.
How will it make you more money?
Won't know till I've tried it.
WFP makes more money than trad.
Fibreglass poles more than ali
Carbon more than fibreglass
Hot water than cold
That's the thing-we don't know till we try...
Surely you can see the differences between your comparisons and a PPB v PPM system though?
I may be wrong, however, look at what I wrote previously. If in fact these systems are PROVEN to save enough time on cleaning, therefore earning you more money, provided you have the work to fill the time saved of course...
Now, let's for arguments sake say it saved you 30 minutes per day, at say what £30 per hour? So that's £15 extra you can earn, provided you have work to do of course, or you get home 30 mins earlier.
Cost of system? £10,000?
So Gould need to do 666.67 days do earn its money, based on 240 working days a year, it's nearly 3 years to make it pay for itself.
Aye & don't forget any additional filtration costs, replacement Ionic filters wont be cheap!! ;D
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When comparing trad to wfp, the differences and pro's and cons of each is easy to see and explain.
I've yet to hear or see or have it explained in practical terms how PPB does a better job than PPM. All it seems to come down to is the statement 'zero PPB is better than zero PPM'.
With WFP because obviously, the end result isn't known untill the glass is dry, how can you know when actually cleaning the glass and frames that a PPB system does a better job? If the tds of the water I use is zero PPM (which may well be less than 0 PPM anyway) or 10 tds, I still take the same time and the end result is clean glass for both.
Most of what affects how much money I make isn't PPM or PPB.
It's the weather, traffic, customers talking, how I feel, distance traveled between jobs, pricing, pole, brush, etc.
£10 000 just for the filtration to clean £10 or £20 a pop windows as opposed to my system at £450?
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Haven't tried one, nor do I feel I need to.
You can only brush and rinse as fast your arms can go, and on maintenance cleans, one pass is all that's needed, so, nor needed for that.
One offs and infrequent cleans, you need to agitate the dirt, which then runs off the glass, leaving 000ppm on the glass. The water doesn't dissolve dirt, it merely is a vehicle to gather the dust etc and take it off the surface by rinsing. PPB water left in the glass will only result in the same finish if rinsed sufficiently.
X2 This what I think on the subject exactly.
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To be honest with you all.
I must agree the kit will be as good as you look after it and how good the person using the kit!
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I feel these systems are a step too far for what we need them for, possibly got its place for some other industries, just can't see it in ours.
Don't get me wrong, ionics systems are superbly engineered, and there is an argument for them, in so much as we are so busy, I can't devote time to messing about with issues on vans, and as far as I can see, and have seen, their systems are superb.
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I can clean windows just as fast with 90ppm (my tap) water as I can with 000PPM. The only difference is that the tap water leaves a few water marks. Dirt is removed just as fast, in fact there is absolutely ZERO difference at all between the two apart from water marks from the dissolved solids in the tap water.
The exact same applies when I wash the car or van- it isn't cleaned any faster or better with pure than tap, that's why I clean with tap but rinse with pure AND we live on a farm, our vehicles get proper filthy!!!!
The PBB concept could probably be argued at microscopic/laboratory level but in our field, in practice it will make no difference whatsoever, I don't even need to use one to make that statement- the marketing bollox here is actually intelligence insulting!!!!!! I've never heard such utter crap. ::)roll ::)roll
I've also spoken to Gaps Water & had the laugh at Ionics expense!! ;D ;D
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I hope they end up out of pocket for trying to mug people off.
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not really looked into this ppb but obviously heard of it and its expense . one question though. what knocks it down to ppb ? is it the resin or are other things needed to get it down to ppb .
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I wonder how many tradders said that WFP wouldn't work.
Until they tried it.
Personally, I shall await Lee's findings.
As far as I know he has no vested interest so will be impartial.
We don't know, it may make us more money.
I'm up for that.
How will it make you more money?
Won't know till I've tried it.
WFP makes more money than trad.
Fibreglass poles more than ali
Carbon more than fibreglass
Hot water than cold
That's the thing-we don't know till we try...
Surely you can see the differences between your comparisons and a PPB v PPM system though?
I may be wrong, however, look at what I wrote previously. If in fact these systems are PROVEN to save enough time on cleaning, therefore earning you more money, provided you have the work to fill the time saved of course...
Now, let's for arguments sake say it saved you 30 minutes per day, at say what £30 per hour? So that's £15 extra you can earn, provided you have work to do of course, or you get home 30 mins earlier.
Cost of system? £10,000?
So Gould need to do 666.67 days do earn its money, based on 240 working days a year, it's nearly 3 years to make it pay for itself.
Agree entirely bud.
But this is now.
When PPM first came out-how much was it?
Who would have DIY'd?
How much were carbon poles?
Etc...
It's expensive now but if there's a demand it may come down.
I'm actually quite skeptical (of everything/one) about the PPB but reserve judgement until there is something more...I was gonna say concrete but that'll never happen...substantial than marketing to back up Ionic claims.
I've only recently jumped the ionic ship on poles so make of that what you will but their kit IMO is like Apple products. In all honesty not THAT much better/different but some people are prepared to pay the premium for what they want.
As I say though just MO.
Let's see what Lee has to say...
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Anyone who has one - can YOU comment as no point in this post otherwise
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Anyone who has one - can YOU comment as no point in this post otherwise
No one who has purchased a system like this at some expense is going to come on here and admit that it's anything less than perfect are they.
I think it's a marketing idea personally.
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That's what marketing does it creates a need to sell a product.
Strange example I know but think of tea bags, was it a customer who thought 'I wish they made these pyramid shaped or round' no, it was someone trying to sell more teabags.
Were there any windys thinking 'I wish my system was ppb instead of ppm'? No.
But once the hype has been built up then people will even if it makes no discernable difference.
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That's what marketing does it creates a need to sell a product.
Strange example I know but think of tea bags, was it a customer who thought 'I wish they made these pyramid shaped or round' no, it was someone trying to sell more teabags.
Were there any windys thinking 'I wish my system was ppb instead of ppm'? No.
But once the hype has been built up then people will even if it makes no discernable difference.
Good post!
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OK - pay attention lads,.. below is PROOF of just how much better PPB systems are - there's math & everything, so it must be right.
My tap water is about 300ppm, my 1000 litre tank holds exactly 1 million grams of water, so in that tank, if it was tap water there would be 300grams of dissolved solids - - with me so far?
My RO & DI bring that reading to 000,.. but for the sake math, lets say my resin is getting old and its up to 001 - that'd be 1gram of dissolved solids in the 1000 litre tank. Not bad for a cheapo DIY job hey?!
If I were to upgrade to a PPB system, and it was working properly I could get that reading down to 0000,.. I could remove a whole extra gram of dissolved solids, thats the absolute best it could do, because there simply is no more dirt to take out of the water. No matter how good the system, it cannot get perfectly clean water any cleaner.
So PPM removes 299g
& PPB removes 300g
See, it is better,.. a whole 0.33% performance increase - - thats worth all the extra investment isn't it? isn't it??
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That's what marketing does it creates a need to sell a product.
Yes but marketing hype can only take you so far. Marketing creates INTEREST in a product, it does not create the need itself. There was already a need for teabags before tetley brough out pyramid ones.
A while ago I needed a new laptop, I looked at all the usual suspects hp, dell, sony etc, but I also looked at apple becuase I'd heard their laptops are good, seen their marketing ads etc etc. The marketing created an interest, it did not create the need.
When I saw that they were 3x the cost of other laptops I did wonder what was there about apple that could justify that price, maybe quality, maybe benefits, maybe features etc. What I found was that people who like apple, REALLY love their products. People who don't like them, just whinge about how they're overpriced and use clever marketing to reel gullible fools in.
So eventually I bit the bullet and got a MacBook Pro. Within less than a day I understood why people love them, and the price is more than justified. If I was asked to describe in detail what is better about MacBook than PC, I suppose it would be very hard because it's not just one or two things, its the whole product is better. It makes things easier, is more reliable.
To an outsider, that wouldn't be enough to justify a price 3x as much as other products, but in my view Apple stuff is well worth the extra money. Could a PC do all the same things for a third the cost? Yes it probably could in all honesty, but I will NEVER ever have a pc again. Once you've used a mac compared to a pc, you get it, but without using it I don't think you can.
I think it is very similar with Ionic stuff. Yes they have good marketing etc, but that is only the start. The 0ppb stuff, I honestly don't know what or if that makes any difference because I haven't tried it. To hear people moaning from the sidelines about it reminds me of the apple haters who've never used a macbook it but still only complain about the price and the marketing. What I do know is that ionic's gear is top notch quality and that takes them a long way.
I just bought new iPhones for me and the missus, even though much more expensive than the other phones purely because after the MacBook experience I know apple quality. Never had iPhones before, but I'm not dissappointed, and I'll never get android again. People said the fingerprint scanner was a marketing gimmick. The Slo-Mo video camera was a marketing gimmick and unnessassary. The dual colour flash was a marketing gimmick. But the truth is, they are not gimmicks, they are genuine features that are good. If someone had described them to me I wouldn't have got it. But now I've used it I understand how useful these things are.
To me that's very like Ionic stuff. People who have them love them and would never change, people who don't have them just whinge about them. I don't need a new wfp system right now, but if I did I would be very happy to consider a 0 per billion from ionics because I know their systems are very good and it might be a benefit worth having, along with the other stuff that 0ppb system can do. Maybe I've got to a stage in life where I've finally realised that price isn't everything and for stuff you need to last for years (like wfp systems) its worth paying more for better stuff.
Just my opinion, but at least I'm honest enough to say "I don't know because I've never used one", rather than be closed minded about it from the off.
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I hope they end up out of pocket for trying to mug people off.
Calm down tiger!!! You'll give yourself a hernia with that kind of talk. What next? A strongly worded letter? :o
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OK - pay attention lads,.. below is PROOF of just how much better PPB systems are - there's math & everything, so it must be right.
My tap water is about 300ppm, my 1000 litre tank holds exactly 1 million grams of water, so in that tank, if it was tap water there would be 300grams of dissolved solids - - with me so far?
My RO & DI bring that reading to 000,.. but for the sake math, lets say my resin is getting old and its up to 001 - that'd be 1gram of dissolved solids in the 1000 litre tank. Not bad for a cheapo DIY job hey?!
If I were to upgrade to a PPB system, and it was working properly I could get that reading down to 0000,.. I could remove a whole extra gram of dissolved solids, thats the absolute best it could do, because there simply is no more dirt to take out of the water. No matter how good the system, it cannot get perfectly clean water any cleaner.
So PPM removes 299g
& PPB removes 300g
See, it is better,.. a whole 0.33% performance increase - - thats worth all the extra investment isn't it? isn't it??
Where do I sign up?!
;D
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That's what marketing does it creates a need to sell a product.
Yes but marketing hype can only take you so far. Marketing creates INTEREST in a product, it does not create the need itself. There was already a need for teabags before tetley brough out pyramid ones.
A while ago I needed a new laptop, I looked at all the usual suspects hp, dell, sony etc, but I also looked at apple becuase I'd heard their laptops are good, seen their marketing ads etc etc. The marketing created an interest, it did not create the need.
When I saw that they were 3x the cost of other laptops I did wonder what was there about apple that could justify that price, maybe quality, maybe benefits, maybe features etc. What I found was that people who like apple, REALLY love their products. People who don't like them, just whinge about how they're overpriced and use clever marketing to reel gullible fools in.
So eventually I bit the bullet and got a MacBook Pro. Within less than a day I understood why people love them, and the price is more than justified. If I was asked to describe in detail what is better about MacBook than PC, I suppose it would be very hard because it's not just one or two things, its the whole product is better. It makes things easier, is more reliable.
To an outsider, that wouldn't be enough to justify a price 3x as much as other products, but in my view Apple stuff is well worth the extra money. Could a PC do all the same things for a third the cost? Yes it probably could in all honesty, but I will NEVER ever have a pc again. Once you've used a mac compared to a pc, you get it, but without using it I don't think you can.
I think it is very similar with Ionic stuff. Yes they have good marketing etc, but that is only the start. The 0ppb stuff, I honestly don't know what or if that makes any difference because I haven't tried it. To hear people moaning from the sidelines about it reminds me of the apple haters who've never used a macbook it but still only complain about the price and the marketing. What I do know is that ionic's gear is top notch quality and that takes them a long way.
I just bought new iPhones for me and the missus, even though much more expensive than the other phones purely because after the MacBook experience I know apple quality. Never had iPhones before, but I'm not dissappointed, and I'll never get android again. People said the fingerprint scanner was a marketing gimmick. The Slo-Mo video camera was a marketing gimmick and unnessassary. The dual colour flash was a marketing gimmick. But the truth is, they are not gimmicks, they are genuine features that are good. If someone had described them to me I wouldn't have got it. But now I've used it I understand how useful these things are.
To me that's very like Ionic stuff. People who have them love them and would never change, people who don't have them just whinge about them. I don't need a new wfp system right now, but if I did I would be very happy to consider a 0 per billion from ionics because I know their systems are very good and it might be a benefit worth having, along with the other stuff that 0ppb system can do. Maybe I've got to a stage in life where I've finally realised that price isn't everything and for stuff you need to last for years (like wfp systems) its worth paying more for better stuff.
Just my opinion, but at least I'm honest enough to say "I don't know because I've never used one", rather than be closed minded about it from the off.
Totally agree with this , i have been a mac owner for 8 months now , i recently tried to use my old laptop and its like going back in time!
constant updates ,waiting to startup, slowdowns for no apparent reason etc etc , get none of that with a mac , it just works reliably and quickly.
Well worth the extra money.
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I just bought new iPhones for me and the missus, even though much more expensive than the other phones purely because after the MacBook experience I know apple quality.
Have a look at this - funny:
http://youtu.be/7bcryQUuDwM
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There is a little bit of difference between Apple & Ionics! ::)roll
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Hi all
I spent the day at Ionics the other week and was shown their PPB System and told how it all works, I have to say I was very impressed with the whole thing, Looks like a system that will last for ever.
I have a Pro 6 and apart from the resin not lasting very long I'm very happy with the system. I also have a much cheaper system that is 5 years old that is falling apart so next year I will replace it with a PPB system
I would rather spend more at the beginning knowing its going to last for years.
A good example I brought a Brodex 3g system maybe 10 years ago full stainless steal system and it still looks good today
Martin
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Hi all
I spent the day at Ionics the other week and was shown their PPB System and told how it all works, I have to say I was very impressed with the whole thing, Looks like a system that will last for ever.
I have a Pro 6 and apart from the resin not lasting very long I'm very happy with the system. I also have a much cheaper system that is 5 years old that is falling apart so next year I will replace it with a PPB system
I would rather spend more at the beginning knowing its going to last for years.
A good example I brought a Brodex 3g system maybe 10 years ago full stainless steal system and it still looks good today
Martin
My twin DI system was DIY. Tank, two vessels, pump & controller.
10 years on I've replaced 1 pump @ £80, it's never let me down & still going strong!! ;)
That said, I still pop & quid or two into those grab machines in the arcade knowing full well how they work & that I'm gonna lose two quid!! ;D
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Filter change costs are reduced. We process about 1200 litres everyday
Carbon and sediment filter on needs changed about every year. Not had to change Di resin yet and had it about 6 months.
We think it's great
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It's fantastic! The Ionics PPB system will make me money. Here's how.
There will be just enough people with enough credit and enough lack of analytical sense who will buy a PPB system thinking it is "the best" "better" etc. They will believe it will clean windows better than an Ionics non PPB and they will definitely believe that any Ionics system is better than any other manufacturer and any DiY system.
Great! I say. They will have to recoup the money they spend; the tens of thousands they use up in credit will need to be earned. When they work they will need to charge higher prices to break even. This means that if you have an Ionic user in the neighbourhood (PPB or PPM) then he will charge more so he won't undercut me.
Lovely.
And do you know what? The guy who produces his own system and works out of his beaten up van, estate, trolley or trailer - especially if he has an add on hot will clean windows just as well as you, me or PPB!
And it will irk me when I see Mr. cheap-as-chips with an ibc sloshing about in the back of his ten year old tranny running through his sureflo pump and using some old fibreglass poles - because although I know his system isn't safe or as profeshnul as my DiY - it will clean windows just fine.
IF YOU WANT SPEED IN WFP:-
Use a van
Get light carbon fibre poles.
Have a tank of a size that will cover your work for a day.
Make sure your system is 10ppm or better.
Use hot on first cleans; warm on repeat cleans in winter.
Have a compact and well organised round.
That's all folks!
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I hope they end up out of pocket for trying to mug people off.
Calm down tiger!!! You'll give yourself a hernia with that kind of talk. What next? A strongly worded letter? :o
Weeeeeeeeeee! ;D
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We have been using PPB for around 3 years now. We are lucky in the fact we get all the equipment free including resin.
The resin we are given is around the £400/£500 per bag (25L) The Di vessels are around the 100L mark, so they take around 4 bags to fill.
We are experimenting with twin DI's but did run into some issues.
The resin in the first vessel lasted around 2.5 years running one van flat out and one van part time/full time
We currently use a resistance meter to check the condition of the water.
The vessels we currently use are http://www.shop.elgaprocesswater.co.uk/c940-nuclear-grade-cylinder-5068.html
I can't really comment on PPB VS PPM as we have only ever used PPB i suppose.
We still get spotting, had some complaints this year (less than 10)
At the moment we are experimenting with a RO system which produces around a 1000L an hour. It's essentially 5 40/40 machines but the filters/housings are longer.
Got no use for a 1000L an hour, but it something to play with when are bored at the site.
We get it all free as we provide an unparalleled service (different company, not window cleaning)
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I can't believe what I'm reading in this thread.
Pyramid tea bags?! :o
Whatever next?
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how does it give the edge on infrequent cleans ,than lets say a hot water system which is god know how much cheaper.
everyone say how good hot is on 1st clean
so can you please explain you findings
I've got a hot PPB system Frankenstein, I can clean so fast I'm doing houses not yet on my books.
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how does it give the edge on infrequent cleans ,than lets say a hot water system which is god know how much cheaper.
everyone say how good hot is on 1st clean
so can you please explain you findings
I've got a hot PPB system Frankenstein, I can clean so fast I'm doing houses not yet on my books.
don't believe you Mr lover man as you don't work ;D ;D
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ionics equipment does look very good but their glossy magazines and marketing hype really put me off........oh i nearly forgot! THEIR PRICES!!!absolutely massively overblown sky high prices!over complicating what is in essence a simple process of purifying water and pumping it up an extending pole to clean windows.
most companies do it who sell wfp equipment.there is always a "new and improved design" its called the art of selling!i first read about it in ALDOUS HUXLEYS "BRAVE NEW WORLD" written about 70 years ago.
have you noticed washing powder adverts?always a new improved version.we all buy into it to a certain degree but ionics PPB is a step too far!! ::)roll
i will still read lees excellent online window cleaning magazine when he does a full review though! ;D ;D ;D
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ionics equipment does look very good but their glossy magazines and marketing hype really put me off........oh i nearly forgot! THEIR PRICES!!!absolutely massively overblown sky high prices!over complicating what is in essence a simple process of purifying water and pumping it up an extending pole to clean windows.
most companies do it who sell wfp equipment.there is always a "new and improved design" its called the art of selling!i first read about it in ALDOUS HUXLEYS "BRAVE NEW WORLD" written about 70 years ago.
have you noticed washing powder adverts?always a new improved version.we all buy into it to a certain degree but ionics PPB is a step too far!! ::)roll
i will still read lees excellent online window cleaning magazine when he does a full review though! ;D ;D ;D
Dazmond a year from now you will be investing in a ppb system and
telling the world its the best thing since sliced bread ;D
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NOT A CHANCE GARY!!im a one man band like you mate so i wont be buying one!! ;D ;D
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Keep the comments rolling guys all of this is useful for our future PPB V PPM article. We are talking to PPB owners but need more.... we need to screw down what actually is the difference and how do we benefit so far the benefits appear marginal. We will be using your inputs here to put questions to the manufactures and scientists so hoping for a article that will give you all your answers so that you can make the best choice for your business at what ever level your at or for what ever your business direction is.
For me PPB is looking subjective at this point....
Is there anyone on here that has used PPM then moved on and now uses PPB?
Any one else tried PPB but were not impressed?
email me or comment here lee@windowcleaningmagazine.co.uk