[ronnie paton]

It has come to my understanding that most people I see Cleaning windows or come for a job  there technique is shoddy and they  an not be leaving the job to any kind of good standard.

I also know that the way I clean would proberly be throwned upon by some on here but I would really be interested in seeing bids of techniques.


Now when I started 7 years ago no one taught me all though Brodex were happy to take £1000 sell me crap heavy poles and tell me  brush and rinse a piece of cake which it  Clearly wasn't.
 It took me months of trial and error checking my glass ect

So please some vids lads I wanna see how we all. Lean the windows

[landy2]

Taught myself , the hardest part was believing how fast and safe and easy to clean a window especially on leaded window when it's been raining .after ten years doing them traditional .

[wightsurf]

On here 7 yrs ago,when i first started out.How things have changed since then.

[TomCrowther]

self taught after looking at a few vids and reading up on it.

[CleanClear]

It has come to my understanding that most people I see Cleaning windows or come for a job  there technique is shoddy and they  an not be leaving the job to any kind of good standard.

I also know that the way I clean would proberly be throwned upon by some on here but I would really be interested in seeing bids of techniques.


Now when I started 7 years ago no one taught me all though Brodex were happy to take £1000 sell me crap heavy poles and tell me  brush and rinse a piece of cake which it  Clearly wasn't.
 It took me months of trial and error checking my glass ect

So please some vids lads I wanna see how we all. Lean the windows

I certainley wouldn't thrown upon the way you clean. And i too am looking to see some bids of others techniques, just to see if i'm getting it right. This could be an interesting thread.

[CLEANCARE WC]

the hardest part when learning is knowing what to clean & what to leave

[R.C Property]

Person where I used to live taught how to do it and it's just gone on from there!

[Frankybadboy]

be nice if you showed us your techinques ronnie video plz

[SunShineCleaning]

Andy Mullens who sold me his setup. Sadly he isnt well so I hear.

That was 2006/7 I think I cant remember. ((same year as Tosh)

Since then I have helped about 10-12 set up.

[colin purewater]

Mike cam ( clean clear) took me out one day and
Showed me the tricks and a good technique 



Top man really made me a better poler 

I don't really care how any one else cleans tbh
I'm told I spend to long rinsing but I no I've done
A perfect job every time so that's all that matters
To me!

[andyjm1]

Anyone can brush a window, it's not exactly rocket surgery is it? 

[Window Washers]

Anyone can brush a window, it's not exactly rocket surgery is it? 

thats so far walkway from the truth
Some people can't thats the problem.
I taught myself after watching certain suppliers balls it up, now trained a few people

[R.C Property]

Anyone can brush a window, it's not exactly rocket surgery is it? 

thats so far walkway from the truth
Some people can't thats the problem.
I taught myself after watching certain suppliers balls it up, now trained a few people

Yer your not to bad of a trainer! Lol

[Gav Camm lammy 283]

Mike cam ( clean clear) took me out one day and
Showed me the tricks and a good technique 



Top man really made me a better poler 

I don't really care how any one else cleans tbh
I'm told I spend to long rinsing but I no I've done
A perfect job every time so that's all that matters


To me!

Hey wot bout me

[Washing Windows]

Here, Youtube and trial 'n' error.

Duncan

[colin purewater]

Mike cam ( clean clear) took me out one day and
Showed me the tricks and a good technique 



Top man really made me a better poler 

I don't really care how any one else cleans tbh
I'm told I spend to long rinsing but I no I've done
A perfect job every time so that's all that matters


To me!

Hey wot bout me

Gav I can't learn from you as you move so fast
With a squeegee your  a window cleaning tornado 

[ronnie paton]

I will do a vid in the next week or two really busy at the mo but would be interested in seeing some
Vids too!

I can honestly say I have never seen a cleanerean the same has me and
Never seen a window cleaner were I think mmmmmmm that's  look quick and will leave the windows looking good!

I guess what I want to achieve is to see if I'm
Too fussy and my tequnique is too fidderly.

[CLEANCARE WC]

I used to scrub way too much until i went to work with my brother i could not believe how quickly he cleaned & rinsed a window, i was convinced they wouldnt be clean!

I was wrong I had been far too fussy before!

[richywilts]

i went on the BWCA courses and also got shown by the guy who i bought my first trolley system off in wolverhampton also reading threads on here id consider myself to be a very good poler and really like to do an high quality job i might not be the quickest but i know customers would be made up with my work

ive passed on my techniques to staff and 70% of them have followed suit and others have cut corners and paid the price and been sacked some people dont get it that do the job right first time is easier than doing job twice

[SB Cleaning]

I will do a vid in the next week or two really busy at the mo but would be interested in seeing some
Vids too!

I can honestly say I have never seen a cleanerean the same has me and
Never seen a window cleaner were I think mmmmmmm that's  look quick and will leave the windows looking good!

I guess what I want to achieve is to see if I'm
Too fussy and my tequnique is too fidderly.

I feel the same Ronnie 

I would be happy to put a video up of me doing a house, would be good if others did as well!! I will do a video next week.

[gavinb]

YouTube .

[Window Washers]

I will do a vid in the next week or two really busy at the mo but would be interested in seeing some
Vids too!

I can honestly say I have never seen a cleanerean the same has me and
Never seen a window cleaner were I think mmmmmmm that's  look quick and will leave the windows looking good!

I guess what I want to achieve is to see if I'm
Too fussy and my tequnique is too fidderly.

I feel the same Ronnie 

I would be happy to put a video up of me doing a house, would be good if others did as well!! I will do a video next week.

me and another guy did this a good few years back now and got slated
Which was a shame as would have helped loads of people
Groundhog the guys name was he left I think just after (shame )

[Trev Jones]

Myself by watching loads of video's and reading forums

[David Kent @ KentKleen]

Why not include with the video, how many customers you gain from referals and how many you lose per month? NOW THAT WOUD BE INTERESTING!
Not all wfp'ers can clean windows, they can rub and wet them tho. And guess what?
I love it. I want at least another 10 vans in my town please full of pole magicians!! Its so easy you can be trained in an hour, just a quick brush and squirt. Easy Money! Splash and dash, one man 60 a day is easy.

[Window Washers]

Why not include with the video, how many customers you gain from referals and how many you lose per month? NOW THAT WOUD BE INTERESTING!
Not all wfp'ers can clean windows, they can rub and wet them tho. And guess what?
I love it. I want at least another 10 vans in my town please full of pole magicians!! Its so easy you can be trained in an hour, just a quick brush and squirt. Easy Money! Splash and dash, one man 60 a day is easy.

forward thinker I like

[concept]

Ian Wicks taught me, and blew my mind with info, so much so I went from thinking about starting part time, to jumping in feet first and going for it full time.

3.5 years later, well, I'd never have guessed I'd be where I am now.

Eternally grateful for Ian's time, which gave me the confidence to do it.

[gewindows]

Clean it up taught me.

Groundhog was a cowboy. Running around someone's front lawn like he had a frog up his arse, just to make a point, his technique was atrocious. I bet he didn't get a single customer approach him in the street on the back of his performance asking for a quote.

[dave0123]

I probably am a bit slow and over scrub and over rinse but hopefully sort that out by doing a few tests of my own over the next few months.

Reason is ive had wfp for a while 2007 or 2008 i think but not used it 100% on all jobs and only the high reach ones i have sort of cheery picked. Ive only 250 litres but its enough for me thinking about getting aqua adapter to also save a little more water as i plan to make it 95% wfp now. only bunglows and the odd houses to be bladed.

[LT carpet cleaning]

A monkey

[Window Washers]

Clean it up taught me.

Groundhog was a cowboy. Running around someone's front lawn like he had a frog up his arse, just to make a point, his technique was atrocious. I bet he didn't get a single customer approach him in the street on the back of his performance asking for a quote.

No he thought different fron you, there is a massive difference Matt
Perfection is an affliction it costs money a lot of it.

Ian Wicks taught me, and blew my mind with info, so much so I went from thinking about starting part time, to jumping in feet first and going for it full time.

3.5 years later, well, I'd never have guessed I'd be where I am now.

Eternally grateful for Ian's time, which gave me the confidence to do it.

thank-you, makes me feel great knowing I helped to change your life

[Small but perfectley formed]

I don't stick to one technique some windows require less scrubbing and rinsing some more .
Time= Money

[dazmond]

i agree with matt.groundhogs video was laughable!

i taught myself with help off this forum.

it takes a while to get used to poling different types of windows and how to get a good finish.trial and error really.


the problem for a lot of guys out there is that window cleaning attracts a lot of people who have very little common sense who have very little interest in actually doing a good consistent job every time.they just want the money.

i cant believe the amount of times ive picked up customers who have a negative view of WFP due to their last so called window cleaner doing a crap job.

[bobplum]

this type of question is subjective to the individual
it does not really matter how you clean, whether your fast,slow,rinse a lot,rinse very little,do the top frame, leave the top frame,do the sills,dont do the sills,fan jets,pencil jets.
i was with Richard from isparkle that guy can move he would clean a whole house in half the time i take and his technique is different from mine,

the real test is your customers they are surely the ones who decide if its good enough,so whether you taught your self or learnt you still aim for the end result.....customer satisfaction....imo

[gewindows]

No he thought different fron you, there is a massive difference Matt
Being a bodgit-and-scarper-operator is an affliction it costs money a lot of it.

FTFY Ian  

[Tom White]

I once got a bag on with Mrs Tosh harping on at me to clean our windows (prior to her going WFP) and I basically 'splashed and dashed' them; I just worked on each window really fast.

I was amazed that they came up perfect.  Now I just cover the glass once - sometimes the frame if it looks dirty - rinse and move on.  We work with a high flow rate, and we can work fast.

It's rare I get a complaint, but I've had a few; maybe 5 of them in the past 5 years; which is a lot more than I received when I was trad, but I can live with that.

[Nathanael Jones]

I learned from the forums & youtube vids - I reckon it was 6 months before I really figured it out though, learning from my mistakes.

I got some rubbish advice from forums too (Like the numpty who told everyone that a 100gpd RO would produce more water than I'd ever need) & bought some rubbish kit when I started out (Clampless floppy pole & really heavy salmon "Autobrush"),.. even going for a trolley when a van mount suited my round so much better.

[Window Washers]

No he thought different fron you, there is a massive difference Matt
Being a bodgit-and-scarper-operator is an affliction it costs money a lot of it.

FTFY Ian  

FTFY ?

[Washing Windows]

FTFY ?

fixed that for you

it's urban text leet speak mate!

Duncan

[CLEANCARE WC]

Clean it up taught me.

Groundhog was a cowboy. Running around someone's front lawn like he had a frog up his arse, just to make a point, his technique was atrocious. I bet he didn't get a single customer approach him in the street on the back of his performance asking for a quote.

  I remember that one, and thinking he looks ridiculous....now that really was splash and dash!

[George P]

1st shown by ionics on a demo they did but wasnt impressed, then shown by facelift on a demo and much better, they also bought the pole that i asked them to bring whereas ionics didnt bother, after that practice and hands on training

[richard jagger]

You tube and a video I bought.Trad and WFP.

[SPE]

I was shown by another member of staff on my first morning working for a firm.

[Dave Willis]

Groundhogs was the funniest one I ever watched, Billy Wizz on speed. Water everywhere all over the brickwork, even the lawn got watered. No tap on his system so he had to sprint everywhere to control it.

Taught myself with help from this forum - it's not exactly difficult is it? Trad requires a lot more technique.

[Window Washers]

Groundhogs was the funniest one I ever watched, Billy Wizz on speed. Water everywhere all over the brickwork, even the lawn got watered. No tap on his system so he had to sprint everywhere to control it.

Taught myself with help from this forum - it's not exactly difficult is it? Trad requires a lot more technique.

Trad IMO was a whole load easier than wfp

[Dave Willis]

What's hard about wfp?

I suppose changing end caps is quite difficult come to think of it.

[gewindows]

Groundhogs was the funniest one I ever watched, Billy Wizz on speed. Water everywhere all over the brickwork, even the lawn got watered. No tap on his system so he had to sprint everywhere to control it.

Taught myself with help from this forum - it's not exactly difficult is it? Trad requires a lot more technique.

Trad IMO was a whole load easier than wfp

Trad is simpler I guess in that all you need is a ladder, a bucket, mop, squeegee and a few cloths; admittedly thats simple, but it involved a lot more experience to get up to speed and be competent and capable.

Far prefer WFP.

[Klean07]

I spent a day working with Mr H in Tavistock Devon, the guy taught me everything I needed to know. Still helps now if I get any probs.

[Dave Willis]

Mr H?
Wasn't he the guy who invented the diy guttervac?

[Tom White]

Trad - to be good - is far more difficult than WFP.  It's an art!  Okay, anyone can squeegy a window - but to do it effortlessly, quickly, and with the minimum of scrimming is the art; that 'n' how best to use your ladders.

[Dave Willis]

The only skill in wfp is working out what causes spotting and how to avoid it. The basics my twelve year old daughter could pick up in twenty minutes.

[Frankybadboy]

Mr H?
Wasn't he the guy who invented the diy guttervac?

ye he is mate,had a meet up with the wise one when he came to briz

[Window Washers]

The only skill in wfp is working out what causes spotting and how to avoid it. The basics my twelve year old daughter could pick up in twenty minutes.

that being harder than taking water off with a blade, why do you think it is a lot of trad cleaners try wfp then go back trad( maybe because it is not as easy as its made out to be. I used to be trad years before wfp life was a load similar back then

[gewindows]

Some trad cleaners go back because they already know how to clean windows, and prefer to stay in their comfort zone rather than excel themselves and push the extra mile.

Any change requires an element of discomfort, getting complaints is probably the final nail in the coffin, not knowing or having a clue where theyre going wrong. Problems caused by trying to clean vents isn't obvious to everyone. One complaint too many and they can see it all going pear shaped so they go back to how it was, all safe and nice doing it the way theyve done it for 15 years. WFP is easier by a mile, it just requires a little more learning than trad ever did.

It is however far less skilful.

[ronnie paton]

i believe most cleaners think they clean with wfp well, but i feel there will be many who tequnique does  not leave the windows to a good standard most of the time, i can honestly say i havent seen one person cleaning and thought bet them standards are high but i have thought wow there quick.

i often check the bottoms of other cleaners when there gone(like a window cleaner spotter) and think what the f###,

how many times you gone and checked 1,2,3 floor windows?? i guess most people dont go and get the ladder off and check

also most customers dont complain, but after time they just come and make up an excuse to cancel

i would love to be wrong has training staff would be easier if WFP is so easy and a 12 year old can do it, or maybe employee muppets...........actually dont answer that  

[Dave Willis]

I can't - I don't understand it 

[gewindows]

Which part of your staffs performance are their problems Ronnie?

Runs?

Spotting?

Uncleaned sills?

Gates left open?

Rude to customers?

[Window Washers]

Some trad cleaners go back because they already know how to clean windows, and prefer to stay in their comfort zone rather than excel themselves and push the extra mile.

Any change requires an element of discomfort, getting complaints is probably the final nail in the coffin, not knowing or having a clue where theyre going wrong. Problems caused by trying to clean vents isn't obvious to everyone. One complaint too many and they can see it all going pear shaped so they go back to how it was, all safe and nice doing it the way theyve done it for 15 years. WFP is easier by a mile, it just requires a little more learning than trad ever did.

It is however far less skilful.

that statement makes no logic sense to me, if it was less skillful it would be easier to master surely, where in fact it isn't. hence why you have put it takes longer to learn

[ronnie paton]

Ian ignore my last post your quite right i was having a Ian Wicks moment lol........kidding

rise and shine...all of them, but i often get they dont clean them has good has you!

i guess the point im making is i see window cleaner 2/3 times a day and have never seen one clean the windows any were near like me.

My staff tell me im to meticulous and dont need to be which frustrates them, but i spent 6 months trying to get the reach and wash tequnique provinding the best standard of clean.

so from what i see most companies go around  cleaning windows poorly cheaply and the client thinks there getting  value for money but really there getting ripped off

[Dave Willis]

Put it another way Ian - what's difficult about scrubbing and rinsing?

Maybe I'm just naturally brilliant but I didn't find it hard to learn.

[Window Washers]

Put it another way Ian - what's difficult about scrubbing and rinsing?

Maybe I'm just naturally brilliant but I didn't find it hard to learn.

maybe you are

[ronnie paton]

dave put a vid on let us see your tequnique, i urge for your special powers

[Dave Willis]

Your right Ronnie but it's not because it's hard to master. It's because employees can't see the results of their work when they leave. Nobody waits around long enough to really check the results so if the customers don't complain then it's fine by them.
Look at the speed merchants on here with their amazing earnings - it's not skill I'm sure.

[Dave Willis]

dave put a vid on let us see your tequnique, i urge for your special powers

I'm not that sad.

[David Kent @ KentKleen]

Anyone can wfp. TRUE
My five year old twins can clean ground floor windows.
The real question everyone should be asking themselves, IS
Am I any good at this WFP cleaning what ever technique you use?

How can we tell?

My Formula=

If you are good at it, you will be charging good money and never get any cancellations or can you leave them this time.
 (unless its for a death in the family etc genuine reason)

If you are bad at it you will be under charging, getting cancellations and leave it's and always be out trying to replace the work you have lost.


Simples  
Sleep Well!!

[ronnie paton]

kent not true i get cancellations and can you leave it now i know i leave the glass perfect totally spotless

look at this tequnique  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kUtq7gnG94

what are you views

[roundbuilder]

I learnt to waterfed pole on chelsea football club by the guy i bought my first round from. Sadly he didnt let the chealsea job go. He taught me to clean slow but move fast. Took me a good few weeks to get the knack.
It realy bothers me when a new starter just cant get it right, realy angers me to the point where i shout and scream. Then i give my self a chill pill and remember how long it took me to grasp.

[David Kent @ KentKleen]

From that video I cannot see your technique. A vid from the outside would be good taking a vid from start to finished rinse.
Are you pricing too high?
Are your new customers just really wanting them cleaned once? (hence the cancellations)
Something is wrong if you are getting customers cancel on a regular basis.

[ronnie paton]

mick kent that sounds like me lol

kent its not me but you can see the tequnique.no rinsing or rinsing on the glass i could not leave that window and feel confident i actually have tried this .

do any of you guys'detail' when reach and washing?

[roundbuilder]

Getting back to groundhog. I used hes advice when i was on my own working to see window cleaning as a game to see if you can get round done quicker and quicker each month. Its amaizing just how quick you can do a maintance clean.
The big thing is technique for a first clean as i belive the first clean is the only clean that realy matters with domestic as all other cleans after that are purely keeping them clean. I have some realy awkward windows that just get a squirt as cant get the brush to them that still come out well from the initial first clean.
Its heartbreaking when i lose a job after doing the first clean spending ages on it.

[gewindows]

Some trad cleaners go back because they already know how to clean windows, and prefer to stay in their comfort zone rather than excel themselves and push the extra mile.

Any change requires an element of discomfort, getting complaints is probably the final nail in the coffin, not knowing or having a clue where theyre going wrong. Problems caused by trying to clean vents isn't obvious to everyone. One complaint too many and they can see it all going pear shaped so they go back to how it was, all safe and nice doing it the way theyve done it for 15 years. WFP is easier by a mile, it just requires a little more learning than trad ever did.

It is however far less skilful.

that statement makes no logic sense to me, if it was less skillful it would be easier to master surely, where in fact it isn't. hence why you have put it takes longer to learn

Basically what I was saying Ian was that with WFP there is no skill involved, whereas there is with trad; but with WFP there are rules and suggestions to learn. There's no skill in dragging a brush over a piece of glass just rules by which you need to abide, such as steer clear of the vents etc.

The distinction is quite simple.

[Tom White]

do any of you guys'detail' when reach and washing?

What do you mean?  Do you mean detail as in what you do with a scrim after squeegying?

If so, no, what's the point in that?

[roundbuilder]

mick kent that sounds like me lol

kent its not me but you can see the tequnique.no rinsing or rinsing on the glass i could not leave that window and feel confident i actually have tried this .

do any of you guys'detail' when reach and washing?

No seriosly i bring some close to tears. I realy go into 1. Im a nightmare to poor newbies with me how f ing hard is it to push a brush in a straight motion on a window withought missing the corners, or another that pes me off is when they go over the top frame even just by a few cm's i call them all the names under the sun, im like an erupting volcano when showing the ropes on my own work.

[gewindows]

kent not true i get cancellations and can you leave it now i know i leave the glass perfect totally spotless

look at this tequnique  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kUtq7gnG94

what are you views

Cant tell from that video; all it is is some bald git running his brush up and down a piece of glass.

[Tom White]

Some trad cleaners go back because they already know how to clean windows, and prefer to stay in their comfort zone rather than excel themselves and push the extra mile.

Any change requires an element of discomfort, getting complaints is probably the final nail in the coffin, not knowing or having a clue where theyre going wrong. Problems caused by trying to clean vents isn't obvious to everyone. One complaint too many and they can see it all going pear shaped so they go back to how it was, all safe and nice doing it the way theyve done it for 15 years. WFP is easier by a mile, it just requires a little more learning than trad ever did.

It is however far less skilful.

that statement makes no logic sense to me, if it was less skillful it would be easier to master surely, where in fact it isn't. hence why you have put it takes longer to learn

Basically what I was saying Ian was that with WFP there is no skill involved, whereas there is with trad; but with WFP there are rules and suggestions to learn. There's no skill in dragging a brush over a piece of glass just rules by which you need to abide, such as steer clear of the vents etc.

The distinction is quite simple.

Matt's not often right, but he is here.  There's more technical knowledge required to use a WFP system than there is to use a squeegy, but there's a lot more skill required to learn how to use a squeegy efficiently.

[gewindows]

dave put a vid on let us see your tequnique, i urge for your special powers

I'm not that sad.

I love those guys that commentate when they're making their window cleaning vids. If videoing it isn't bad enough the neighbours get a running commentary, they must think they're nuts! lol

[Tom White]

im like an erupting volcano when showing the ropes on my own work.

Have you ever considered letting the Buddha into your life?

[David Kent @ KentKleen]

Some trad cleaners go back because they already know how to clean windows, and prefer to stay in their comfort zone rather than excel themselves and push the extra mile.

Any change requires an element of discomfort, getting complaints is probably the final nail in the coffin, not knowing or having a clue where theyre going wrong. Problems caused by trying to clean vents isn't obvious to everyone. One complaint too many and they can see it all going pear shaped so they go back to how it was, all safe and nice doing it the way theyve done it for 15 years. WFP is easier by a mile, it just requires a little more learning than trad ever did.

It is however far less skilful.

that statement makes no logic sense to me, if it was less skillful it would be easier to master surely, where in fact it isn't. hence why you have put it takes longer to learn

Basically what I was saying Ian was that with WFP there is no skill involved, whereas there is with trad; but with WFP there are rules and suggestions to learn. There's no skill in dragging a brush over a piece of glass just rules by which you need to abide, such as steer clear of the vents etc. The distinction is quite simple.

You obviously need to do some wfp training if you stay clear of vents. WHY are people scared of vents? If you advertise that you clean all the FRAME and glass surely you need to learn how to clean vent areas properly.

Oh sorry I forgot there is NO skill involved with WFP

[gewindows]

do any of you guys'detail' when reach and washing?

If you seriously think that is a consideration you need to rethink how good you are at WFP.

[roundbuilder]

It took me a lot longer to learn to wfp over tradding. Wfp you need to know all the frame types, all the glass types, what top frames to do and what not, unless im to fussy or over the top but trad miles easier it is simply soaping, removing and wiping away so all is left clean and dry.

[David Kent @ KentKleen]

Ronnie Dont you clean the top edge of the frame??

[gewindows]

Matt's not often right, but he is here.

Thats why im in the 'club'  

And that is the truth lol

[gewindows]

You obviously need to do some wfp training if you stay clear of vents. WHY are people scared of vents? If you advertise that you clean all the FRAME and glass surely you need to learn how to clean vent areas properly.

Because vents leach dirt back onto the glass. Or, if theyre open you flood the property; well the bit inside the house below the window anyway.

Of course you're going to tell us the laws of physics don't apply to KentKleen and these things never happen to you on your round. 

[David Kent @ KentKleen]

Dirty vents do but clean ones dont! How do you avoid vents ? do you just clean the glass and bottom part too the frame?

[ronnie paton]

detailing is this at the top of the glass were the frame and seal are i swipe excess water leaving no water drops or excess water waiting to drip! when i rinse i them be extremly carefull to make sure when the water jets hit the glass the circle the water creates doesnt hit the frame and create the water drops you got rid off.

[Tom White]

It took me a lot longer to learn to wfp over tradding. Wfp you need to know all the frame types, all the glass types, what top frames to do and what not, unless im to fussy or over the top but trad miles easier it is simply soaping, removing and wiping away so all is left clean and dry.

Nah, you're over complicating it.

What are "all the frame types"?  There's two, good and dodgy.

Glass is glass; doesn't matter if it sheets or beads; you cover it's surface with the brush and then rinse.  Some rinse on, some off; I don't think it matters too much.  I work with a high flow rate; I rinse on 'cos the water bounces.  It's not complicated, it's just 'knowledge' - not a skill.

Trad is a skill, if you watch someone who has tradded for 20 years and compare them to someone who has just been at it a few years, you'll see the difference.  The guy who has done it for 20 years will make it look easy - it'll be a pleasure to watch.  

The difference isn't the same with WFP.

[roundbuilder]

You obviously need to do some wfp training if you stay clear of vents. WHY are people scared of vents? If you advertise that you clean all the FRAME and glass surely you need to learn how to clean vent areas properly.

Because vents leach dirt back onto the glass. Or, if theyre open you flood the property; well the bit inside the house below the window anyway.

I never go near vents and havnt from day 1. Oh thats another thing the makes me explode when a newbie touches the vents with brush or water just above so leaks in Arrrrgggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg i may get done for murder some day soon, i feel sorry for my next full timer ill be training up!!

[gewindows]

Dirty vents do but clean ones dont! How do you avoid vents ? do you just clean the glass and bottom part too the frame?

I clean vents when theyre dirty with a dry brush.

[David Kent @ KentKleen]

Do you advertise that you clean ALL the customers frames Mick?

[Dave Willis]

I'm off to the bog cleaning forum. Now that is a skill.

How about an nvq in leaf sweeping - it's almost the same as wfp but without the water.

[David Kent @ KentKleen]

How do you clean the frame above a vent? or are you a glass only man

[ronnie paton]

if its easy has beeing saidjust clearly brushing and rinsing why when  isee other cleaners and check there work cause i do is it sh#t, whenii first started i cleaaned all the frames and then tied missing the frames i rinsed on and off i used jets and fans and i come to a way off cleaned that you can use on all glasss to get a perfect finish.

no spots not even in the corner or down the sides.

now tosh this is why i put the topic uo cause from what is being said by some its just so easy now maybe im wrong and i over complicate it and it frustates new staff bacause they have to change they way they clean to be more meticulous??

so i would like to see how these people who say its just so easy clean there glass and i can see if it really works by cleaning that way on a job were i do ins and outs to check how good it leaves the glass

[Tom White]

I don't touch vents, never had a complaint over this.  I'm just not that fussy I suppose.  You know people retain window cleaners for reasons other than purely clean windows.  We're friendly, we don't rob them, we provide a good service, we charge a fair price that's both fair on the customer and to us, we're not too regular, we friendly, we offer a range of payment methods, and I'm good looking.

Maybe they'll weigh all that up and think a few spots or runs every now 'n' again is a fair one?

But I don't intend to start making problems for myself by cleaning vents when there's no problem with us not cleaning 'em in the first place.

[roundbuilder]

i dont advertise. Even when i canvas i dont tell them its wfp we use, i just give them a welcome letter with my details on stating that overly dirty windows sometimes take 2 or 3 cleans to bring up to speck. Most are over the top happy that i do there frames and seals. In 5 years wfp i have never had a complaint that a vent has been missed so is not an issue at all.

[gewindows]

Because its easy but that doesnt mean if you cut corners you will still leave it clean.

[David Kent @ KentKleen]

I don't touch vents, never had a complaint over this.  I'm just not that fussy I suppose.  You know people retain window cleaners for reasons other than purely clean windows.  We're friendly, we don't rob them, we provide a good service, we charge a fair price that's both fair on the customer and to us, we're not too regular, we friendly, we offer a range of payment methods, and I'm good looking.Maybe they'll weigh all that up and think a few spots or runs every now 'n' again is a fair one?

But I don't intend to start making problems for myself by cleaning vents when there's no problem with us not cleaning 'em in the first place.

Good points there. I just like to give my customers what they are paying for as we advertise that we clean ALL there frames and glass evertime we call. 

[David Kent @ KentKleen]

A video section would be great as I didnt realise how many people dont clean vents or the top edge of frames.

[Window Washers]

It took me a lot longer to learn to wfp over tradding. Wfp you need to know all the frame types, all the glass types, what top frames to do and what not, unless im to fussy or over the top but trad miles easier it is simply soaping, removing and wiping away so all is left clean and dry.

Nah, you're over complicating it.

What are "all the frame types"?  There's two, good and dodgy.

Glass is glass; doesn't matter if it sheets or beads; you cover it's surface with the brush and then rinse.  Some rinse on, some off; I don't think it matters too much.  I work with a high flow rate; I rinse on 'cos the water bounces.  It's not complicated, it's just 'knowledge' - not a skill.

Trad is a skill, if you watch someone who has tradded for 20 years and compare them to someone who has just been at it a few years, you'll see the difference.  The guy who has done it for 20 years will make it look easy - it'll be a pleasure to watch.  

The difference isn't the same with WFP.

Really Tosh
20 years will make it look easy of course maybe a little slower though. so would anyone with half a brain after a couple of years Tosh

Really it's not that hard.

Your over simplifing it, when in fact it does matter if it sheets or beads with wfp couple of examples is in time and the way it is rinsed one is quicker than the other and one takes more effort maybe you say this because you know how to do it, maybe your cant trad windows andblook at technique in awe of it I honestly don't know that answer but would make sence to your comments above.

talking about skill and knowledge as your making out trad is a skill and wfp  is knowledge ( or that's how I'm reading it) both are skills gained through knowledge and implementation of that knowledge. You do make me laugh sometimes Tosh.

With trad as said simple soap up blade off wipe edge if needed Very simple.

Not belittling trad at all as I used to do it, but its a load easier than wfp IMO

[roundbuilder]

It took me a lot longer to learn to wfp over tradding. Wfp you need to know all the frame types, all the glass types, what top frames to do and what not, unless im to fussy or over the top but trad miles easier it is simply soaping, removing and wiping away so all is left clean and dry.

Nah, you're over complicating it.

What are "all the frame types"?  There's two, good and dodgy.

Glass is glass; doesn't matter if it sheets or beads; you cover it's surface with the brush and then rinse.  Some rinse on, some off; I don't think it matters too much.  I work with a high flow rate; I rinse on 'cos the water bounces.  It's not complicated, it's just 'knowledge' - not a skill.

Trad is a skill, if you watch someone who has tradded for 20 years and compare them to someone who has just been at it a few years, you'll see the difference.  The guy who has done it for 20 years will make it look easy - it'll be a pleasure to watch.  

The difference isn't the same with WFP.

Really Tosh
20 years will make it look easy of course maybe a little slower though. so would anyone with half a brain after a couple of years Tosh

Really it's not that hard.

Your over simplifing it, when in fact it does matter if it sheets or beads with wfp couple of examples is in time and the way it is rinsed one is quicker than the other and one takes more effort maybe you say this because you know how to do it, maybe your cant trad windows andblook at technique in awe of it I honestly don't know that answer but would make sence to your comments above.

talking about skill and knowledge as your making out trad is a skill and wfp  is knowledge ( or that's how I'm reading it) both are skills gained through knowledge and implementation of that knowledge. You do make me laugh sometimes Tosh.

With trad as said simple soap up blade off wipe edge if needed Very simple.

Not belittling trad at all as I used to do it, but its a load easier than wfp IMO

Trad is much easier.hence the amount of phead dullboys out tradding it up. The amount of people i have had to let go as just cant get the hang of wfp. When was trad everyone would pick it up after a few houses and master in in a matter of days.
So many more varables wfp over trad.

[G Griffin]

Don't they teach it school, anymore?
What's happening to this country? 

[Tom White]

Not you, Griff, but I read some right old cobblers on this forum sometimes.

Makes me smile.

[Dave Willis]

Makes me cry.

[Klean07]

Mr H?
Wasn't he the guy who invented the diy guttervac?

http://www.mrhcleaning.co.uk/Yes thats the guy top bloke!

[Klean07]

http://www.mrhcleaning.co.uk/

[jarvy]

Why worry about other peoples work,concentrate on your own business. If they are your workers not working to a good standard then get rid. If you are stalking other windies to spy on their work then get a grip.
End of the day,my custy's are happy with the end result,i am happy to get paid!

[ronnie paton]

jarvey are they??? trust me when i say that most customers dont complain and iv said some shocking work and they seem to still be cleaning with these standards.

i think there is a market for me to show clients and inform of how bad some company clean has there actually being ripped off!!

[jarvy]

You are more than welcome to go and ask them 

[gewindows]

lol I guess thats the answer that Ronnie's statement invited.

Hey, Ronnie, you've said you've had problems with the standard of work your staff turn out , perhaps you should concentrate on their work and not other window cleaners. 

[David Kent @ KentKleen]

jarvey are they??? trust me when i say that most customers dont complain and iv said some shocking work and they seem to still be cleaning with these standards.

i think there is a market for me to show clients and inform of how bad some company clean has there actually being ripped off!!

Ron!!!!! At last someone on this forum on the same wave length as me. I was detailing around a wimdow frame today (some white upvc strips around the frame and thought of you 
There is a very LARGE market out there waiting to be tapped into by companies providing a 'premium' (better) service. You know what I mean. Doing the little extra's you dont get paid for. It's suprising how customers remember and repay you.
 

[Dave Willis]

Ronnie Allbright of Rogue Traders 

Were you a grass at school?

[gewindows]

You know what I mean. Doing the little extra's you dont get paid for.

Here you are

http://www.vso.org.uk/

 

[David Kent @ KentKleen]

One of my goals is to be in a position to do voluntary work once a week. Strange (to some people) but true

[ronnie paton]

rise trust me when i say this the small minor problems with there standard is nothing compaired to the shocking results iv seen, spying on window cleaners??? no its checking out there yequnique to try and improve my self.

now you can never stop improving all though many of the millionaire window cleaners on here will say other wise.

what i see is window cleaners ripping people off and doing a shocking job and i question why they dont get issues.......is because there so cheap??? maybe but even that cant last forever cause im sure when paying for a service you would like to see a difference.

and this gets me thinking i bet there is toms of openings for me to explain to my clients how it works and how some/most i see do not clean the window to a standard at all suitable.

maybe my enthusism and my attuitde to my business gets me noticed with my clients and certainly doesnt do no harm.

i would like to see different tequniques.....and there are many and tyry them and see for my self what works what doesnt and become has productive has possible while mainting standards.

[dazmond]

i find wfpoling easy after over 2 and a half years since switching.

once the windows and frames have been cleaned with wfp a few times i can clean some windows in less than 10 seconds!!

decent brush,water at 000,light carbon fibre pole,high flow ITS EASY!!!!

I can honestly say ive NEVER had any problems with vents.obviously i make sure i dont squirt water directly up inside them but i just clean as normal above them.

the thing is ronnie your staff dont value their standard of work like you do as its not their business!!

[David Kent @ KentKleen]

i find wfpoling easy after over 2 and a half years since switching.

once the windows and frames have been cleaned with wfp a few times i can clean some windows in less than 10 seconds!!

decent brush,water at 000,light carbon fibre pole,high flow ITS EASY!!!!

I can honestly say ive NEVER had any problems with vents.obviously i make sure i dont squirt water directly up inside them but i just clean as normal above them.

the thing is ronnie your staff dont value their standard of work like you do as its not their business!!

[/color]

You have hit the nail on the head Dazmond! Knowone will ever value it like you do yourself. Forget employing! FRANCHISE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Then they will value it believe me.

[ronnie paton]

i would prefer to sub than franchise, i can make more profit!!

you can get staff has company clearly show when they have loads of staff like price group

maybe i strive for something that isnt neccassary and like most have said you can get away with alot if your polite friendly ande reliable.

[David Kent @ KentKleen]

Yes but why live a life 'getting away with it' For people who like to give total customer satifaction and like to do a job for people to the same standard as you would do for yourself you cannot just do enough to keep them happy. I cant. I need too do the best i can for them. OCD I think. But the customers love it.

[ronnie paton]

i thgink its about comprimise like life.
staff will never work like you all though im nothing special im sure and confident i will make this work i will get the right staff and i will achieve above my expectations!!!

[Tom White]

One of my goals is to be in a position to do voluntary work once a week. Strange (to some people) but true

Service to others is the meaning of life.

[Frankybadboy]

still waiting video ronnie on how good you are

[ronnie paton]

i woulnt say good it just works for me, but im more than open to change to be better/more efficient and easier for staff.

got new lads starting tomoz and monday then new van next week so after that ill get on it...........im ready for the grief

[gary999]

started wfp 2007 vids and forums...took me 12 months to get to
a speed and water usage which i would find acceptable now

still learnt new things since then from technique which is best to
use in different weather conditions,which jet usage is best[1 up to 4]
depending onthe job windows gutter fascia etc.

being willing to accept i still dont know everything about wfp
and being willing to take new ideas on board has given me the
cleaning skill equilivant to threading the eye of a needle,while
others can only smash away at anut with a sledgehammer