[Davew]

4k a month? I'll have some of that please.

[russ_clark]

1 man 4 k ?
I am doing something wrong then 

[Ian Rochester]

That's not an unreasonable figure, it's equivalent to £200/day, which is what many of you are doing and quite achievable.

[mick hay]

All down to pricing correctly!!!!

I started 1 1/2 yrs ago, im on that already!

[Davew]

Yep Russ on that income you could probably take the whole winter off! Reading some of the threads on here I really think a very large pinch of salt is required. I couldn't come close to that with twelve months of drought. Then the man says he's depressed! Surely this is one big wind up. Factory work pays out eight pounds an hour including bonus in my area. Either there are some very gullable customers out there or some very gullable windowcleaners on this forum.

[eddie d]

davew /there is no bull here .
ive been in this game 20 yrs .i know what im doing on a sole trader basis .
im not depressed with my output .im finding it difficult to grow the buisness beyond a one man ban ,i find that depressing .did you look at my 1st post didnt it add up .
come out with me any day you choose and ill show you how to ahcieve that much .
im not kidding you and neither are the other people on this foram .
there are plenty doing above that as well .

[D woods]

If you price your work at £35 per hour and clean for six hours a day, you will
turnover £210 per day per man if each man works 22 days per month. They will
turnover £4600 per month .

This is turnover and NOT PROFIT do not make the mistake of confusing them.

[gsw]

eddie you have mail

[Moderator David@stives]

David

I know £35.00 can be achievable , but only on the right work and you have to look long and hard for it. To fill a full month with it is way beyond the average window cleaner.

I wish local window cleaners would put there prices up, i cannot even begin to compete with them on the majority of houses in my area so my building pool is a lot smaller than theres.

I quoted 2 small houses last week and quoted £8.00 total of 8 windows on each house, they refused my quote in favour of a guy doing them for £5.00.

While there are still thousands of guys out there working for that sort of price, you will find it a lot harder to build a round like your talking about.

I am not trying to teach you to suck eggs , i think you are operating in a more lucrative pool than most.

Dave

[Mhall]

Your seriously going to pay someone £500.00 per week to work for you. Surely you can get someone for around £220.00, especailly if they are only working 4 days and for 6 hours? Thats £9.16 an hour

I know you could get someone round here for that(manchester), or maybe less!

Why not take on someone younger?

[D woods]

Hi Dave
I am talking about commercial work in London and £35- £55 per is an average price but you have to remember we pay parking costs at £4-£5
per hour and £8 per day con charge. So its not as great as it sounds.

[Moderator David@stives]

Mhall

would you work for £220 a week window cleaning , i certainly wouldnt.

you have to base a working day on 6 hours because in any 8 hour period you would be lucky to actually earn for 6 hours. ie travelling, breaks, chatting etc

D Woods

I would say because of you i am now charging similar prices to you on all my new stuff and still converting some of my old stuff, but i have got more than enough work to be able to do that.

Dave

[Davew]

Lot of Daves on here. I know there is good money in commercial work - if you can get it. But I can't see customers around my area paying or being able to afford to pay the kind of money some are talking about here. Most people know that a window will cost around a pound to clean on domestics I also pride myself on doing a good job. If I could race through the day then maybe I could earn £150 domestic. Maybe more If I could pick up whole streets at a time (very unlikely). I make better money on conservatories and gutter cleans but it's not easy work. There are too many cleaners out there who are cleaning for very low wages for me to corner the market.

[D woods]

Us Dave's should start a new secret society.

[Clive McDonald]

Eddie/Trev, very interesting disscusion. I understand what Eddie is saying and he sets out the problem very well.
At least by setting out the problem you can attempt to solve it.

On the van insurance you may be able to get 2nd on introductory no claims.I did, but I use van 1 for something else.

[Clive McDonald]

Two more things about the calculations.
1. the repayments of £340 are nearly £4000 pa so I Imagine you have borrowed £15,000 over five years for a total repayment of £2000.
But if you can earn £1000 pw, clear your debt, and buy second van etc cash, therefore losing this £340 brake on profitability. Ie turning your £400 bottom line into £740.

2. I agree you have to pay good wages. But if your went job and finish you might be able to pay £400 pw,Ie turning your £740 bottom line into £1,140.

Therefore, in theory, four vans, four grand a month, plus whatever you can earn yourself.I agree though it does look daunting looking at it from your current comfort zone and a lot could go wrong. (employee leaving nicking round etc).

[eddie d]

vgs /i was working the calculations out on the worst case .so i know they can be improved on a bit .
apart from the money side i have worked with maybe 20 people or so in the past 20 yrs and have always been let down .

i do sub to 1 guy at the mo and it works ok .but i basically have to give him the high end work as he works on 300 a day + for 2 men .
the other guy i sub to has dropped me right in it this month after breaking up with his girlfriend ,he couldnt work for a month .

the job i like but turning it into a buisness isnt easy .and the risk reward thing io dont think is worth it  for me .not in this game anyway .

dave woods does well ,as he is a bit of a specialist wc ,absailing and all that .but what he has built up is pretty good .trev seems to have sussed it as well .they should do classes "how to run a sucessfull wc buisness "

im not complaining and not really depressed just frustrated .(only at work  )

[stevekennedy]

£100 a month on gear 

Are we talking window cleaning gear or something "recreational"

What kind of gear are you buying?

You mention a second van. Why not work from the one van? Surely you are covering the work at the moment with the one van?

SUGGESTED BUSINESS PLAN TO SAVE YOU MONEY
Let's say we go with your figures...
Put the worker in the van and just get a runabout for yourself for canvassing etc. As the work starts building, start going with him one day a week until you have enough for both of you to be out there full time. Then get another employee to go with the first one.
By now you are turning over approx £70k. Now you can afford a new van!
Put one employee in each van.
Repeat the above.
Once you have 3 vans each having 2 guys working 4-5 days per week you will be turning over £210k+
Your 40% profit margin will be netting you £82k profit and no manual work.

[Trademark WC]

Hi Eddie,

I personally think that WC really isn't  big business, yes there will always be a few out there making the big bucks. but lets be honest its probably one of the cheapest business set-ups going, which is why our industry is full of cowboys and dole cheats charging stupid prices which in turn undervalue's our customer image as most people think wc are beneath them in society cos they see the battered cars with scabby ladders and then tar all of us with the same brush. This is what kills our prices and earning capabilites to the point where if you do employ the repayment isn't that great compared to the risk elements involved.

If you owned a sparks firm and you got a rewire on a 3 bed house you would be charging say 3-4k you could finish it in 4-5 days (maybe less), wages would be £800, materials £400 plus extras say van all that jazz say £100. that leaves £2200 for the company. Thats alot more than you would earn off 2 wc a week.
Also in the bigger picture if you were succesful and made it to twenty years of service you would be able to sell your name/clients as a real business with value on to a rival and make a tidy sum or semi-retire and just price up jobs and work in the office.

I really feel the same as you and if im honest im at a point now where I don't know if I should jack it all in and move on to a business where the invoice values are alot higher and the margins are easier to work with hopefully making it easier to expand.

I'm only 30 and im really thinking is it worth me putting all my effort in to something that will not grow into a business where I could become semi retired? as that is my ultimate goal.

I was doing 4 story cleans today and it was bloody hard work, I can't see me doing that when im 50 !! .

I maybe wrong or just feeling a bit down today because of the weather but just my 2p worth 

Rob

[NWH]

Take his VAT of that £2200 and then his tax and then take the empolyees tax and nat ins off aswell,that leaves him with say £1600.He has to advertise big time to get constant work like that coming in so you can take the cost of that off the total aswell,he also has to go back and sort out costly problems if they go wrong.He also has agro of going to builders merchants to pick stuff up and can`t do the work if it`s not in stock need i go on it aint all rosy mate.If it`s half desent weather i can earn what he earns all day long without any of that hassle and be home in time for countdown,don`t tar us all with the bucket and sponge brigade cos you couldn`t be any further away from the mark.No offense.