[dazmond]

currently i put £40  diesel a month in my van.obviously when i get my heater i can see that ill be putting in triple that a month,if not more.so how much do you guys put in roughly a month?(using hot water all day every day).

also what are your batteries like when running the heater all day?ill be running my engine for roughly an hour a day(15 mins to and from work and 30 mins when having my lunch).do you have to bench charge every night?do your batteries ever run so low that you cant continue cleaning without keeping the engine running?

cheers in advance guys

[Splash & dash]

We run the heater 8 hours a day 5 days a week fuel costs approx £60 to £85 per week most of our work is within 5 miles of base . We have 2 heavy duty gell battery’s approx 400 amps total real heavy duty ones generally charged each night but will run the whole system including 3 pumps for up to 3 days without charge maximum ,we don’t have it charge from the vehicle only Mains charger

[dazmond]

We run the heater 8 hours a day 5 days a week fuel costs approx £60 to £85 per week most of our work is within 5 miles of base . We have 2 heavy duty gell battery’s approx 400 amps total real heavy duty ones generally charged each night but will run the whole system including 3 pumps for up to 3 days without charge maximum ,we don’t have it charge from the vehicle only Mains charger

it seems a lot of diesel to be using a week.i average 5 or 6 hours a day actually "on the glass".i was thinking £5-£6 a day in diesel to run the heater all day but your using twice that a day.

[Splash & dash]

Boiler is running 8 hours a day solid , looks like you will be using it less so hopefully your running costs will be less to , we are always using two or three poles most of the time which will keep the heater running Flat out it never goes into half power

[dazmond]

Boiler is running 8 hours a day solid , looks like you will be using it less so hopefully your running costs will be less to , we are always using two or three poles most of the time which will keep the heater running Flat out it never goes into half power

ah ok mate.thanks for replying.

[֍Winp®oClean֍]

You're not "bricking it" already Daz?

At this rate you might have to go without the heated seat!!!

[dazmond]

You're not "bricking it" already Daz?

At this rate you might have to go without the heated seat!!!

my heated seat was great at lunch time today winpro!just need the heated water now!only 12 days to go.cant wait mate!

[p1w1]

my last 2 cars have had heated seats dont think i ever used them once

[NWH]

Daz your fuel bill will double so £80 15 minutes travel will do nothing for the battery’s you’ll need to get them to put a socket on the system so you can just run a 3 pin plug into the back overnight. If they are fully charged you won’t need to charge every night and if you have he van running every now and again when working it’ll put some juice back into it but you must make sure you ask them for that socket so you don’t have to lift batteries in and out the van it’s a major pain.

[johnwillan]

currently i put £40  diesel a month in my van.obviously when i get my heater i can see that ill be putting in triple that a month,if not more.so how much do you guys put in roughly a month?(using hot water all day every day).

also what are your batteries like when running the heater all day?ill be running my engine for roughly an hour a day(15 mins to and from work and 30 mins when having my lunch).do you have to bench charge every night?do your batteries ever run so low that you cant continue cleaning without keeping the engine running?

cheers in advance guys

Hi Dazmond

We run 500L Hot GrippaTank Systems in Connect 240 L2 Limiteds, we have x2 105m/ah batteries with B2B chargers.

We do local (within 3 mile radius) domestic work 5/6 days per week, around 6 hours per day (stop / start).

We run heaters all day, we do not bench charge and use around £40 diesel per week.

HTH

John

[dazmond]

my last 2 cars have had heated seats dont think i ever used them once

ive got heated leather seats in my golf gti too.i use them all the time in the winter months.toasty!

[brianbarber]

I use full tank diesel per week

Prior to hot water install it lasted 10 working days

I calculate 1.25 litre an hour usage.

I think the fuel figures of a litre per hour from webasto and others are a little too keen.

However if you work alone, have another pump fitted and keep that on all day, by 12 noon you can turn off  burner as the re circ feature would have heated all your water in main tank.

Mr B

[dazmond]

currently i put £40  diesel a month in my van.obviously when i get my heater i can see that ill be putting in triple that a month,if not more.so how much do you guys put in roughly a month?(using hot water all day every day).

also what are your batteries like when running the heater all day?ill be running my engine for roughly an hour a day(15 mins to and from work and 30 mins when having my lunch).do you have to bench charge every night?do your batteries ever run so low that you cant continue cleaning without keeping the engine running?

cheers in advance guys

Hi Dazmond

We run 500L Hot GrippaTank Systems in Connect 240 L2 Limiteds, we have x2 105m/ah batteries with B2B chargers.

We do local (within 3 mile radius) domestic work 5/6 days per week, around 6 hours per day (stop / start).

We run heaters all day, we do not bench charge and use around £40 diesel per week.

HTH

John

wow thats good john.im having the same b to b charger fitted in mine too.thanks for replying.

[dazmond]

Daz your fuel bill will double so £80 15 minutes travel will do nothing for the battery’s you’ll need to get them to put a socket on the system so you can just run a 3 pin plug into the back overnight. If they are fully charged you won’t need to charge every night and if you have he van running every now and again when working it’ll put some juice back into it but you must make sure you ask them for that socket so you don’t have to lift batteries in and out the van it’s a major pain.

nigel i run an extension lead out to my van every night to charge my battery (as its on my drive)and have done since i went wfp so it wont be an issue but i dont think ill have to with the grippa smart charger fitted. apparently they keep the batteries charged up even with very little mileage.

[Splash & dash]

Daz your fuel bill will double so £80 15 minutes travel will do nothing for the battery’s you’ll need to get them to put a socket on the system so you can just run a 3 pin plug into the back overnight. If they are fully charged you won’t need to charge every night and if you have he van running every now and again when working it’ll put some juice back into it but you must make sure you ask them for that socket so you don’t have to lift batteries in and out the van it’s a major pain.

nigel i run an extension lead out to my van every night to charge my battery (as its on my drive)and have done since i went wfp so it wont be an issue but i dont think ill have to with the grippa smart charger fitted. apparently they keep the batteries charged up even with very little mileage.

I doubt that the small amount of mileage you do will keep them fully charged it will help but to keep them in tip top state of charge I would charge them from the mains as required, we have a meter that shows the power being used and the charge state of the batteries in real time read out it’s useful thing to have and not expensive might be worth fitting one if it’s not already on the plan

[NWH]

This heater will kill the battery’s if they are not in tip top condition.

[The Jester of Wibbly]

Daz.  From my understanding the system will use 1 ltr an hour on full continuous power.

As you are only using one pump I would imagine the system wont need to be running on max.   Plus will probably depend on the temp setting too. 

£5 a day would be a fair guess for you.  I would be interested in knowing how long it runs for over night when in frost mode (cold nights)  electric heater may still be the better option

[Splash & dash]

Daz.  From my understanding the system will use 1 ltr an hour on full continuous power.

As you are only using one pump I would imagine the system wont need to be running on max.   Plus will probably depend on the temp setting too. 

£5 a day would be a fair guess for you.  I would be interested in knowing how long it runs for over night when in frost mode (cold nights)  electric heater may still be the better option


The heater runs for 10 muinets in frost stat mode , dont believe the blurb that you read in broshers  about fuel consumption it defiantly uses mor than the 1.1 ltr per hour that they state I’ve had mine for over 3 years now and am fully aware of the running costs unfortunately 😬😬😬 you do need to run it flat out at times otherwise it will coke up the screen many people have had trouble with this due to only using them for short periods on low power mode particularly  in boats when they are used for domestic hot water ie on Off all the time try googling it you will find lots of issues if used this way

[dazmond]

Daz.  From my understanding the system will use 1 ltr an hour on full continuous power.

As you are only using one pump I would imagine the system wont need to be running on max.   Plus will probably depend on the temp setting too. 

£5 a day would be a fair guess for you.  I would be interested in knowing how long it runs for over night when in frost mode (cold nights)  electric heater may still be the better option


The heater runs for 10 muinets in frost stat mode , dont believe the blurb that you read in broshers  about fuel consumption it defiantly uses mor than the 1.1 ltr per hour that they state I’ve had mine for over 3 years now and am fully aware of the running costs unfortunately 😬😬😬 you do need to run it flat out at times otherwise it will coke up the screen many people have had trouble with this due to only using them for short periods on low power mode particularly  in boats when they are used for domestic hot water ie on Off all the time try googling it you will find lots of issues if used this way

i spoke to a customer the other day who has the same webasto heater on his narrowboat and he said he s never had it serviced in 4 years and it still works fine.

[dazmond]

Daz.  From my understanding the system will use 1 ltr an hour on full continuous power.

As you are only using one pump I would imagine the system wont need to be running on max.   Plus will probably depend on the temp setting too. 

£5 a day would be a fair guess for you.  I would be interested in knowing how long it runs for over night when in frost mode (cold nights)  electric heater may still be the better option

the frost stat runs for 10 mins every hour if its 2c or below overnight.sod putting a heater in there as well.the whole point of spending all this money is so i can forget about having to put a heater in the van overnight on freezing nights as well as warm hoses in the day.

[simon w]

Am I right in saying your low tds tap water allows you to fill your van direct from tap through DI resin?

Never done it myself but cant you run hot water from your tap through DI vessel and into your van?

If so you'd have a tank full of hot for the day without the need of a heater.

[dazmond]

Am I right in saying your low tds tap water allows you to fill your van direct from tap through DI resin?

Never done it myself but cant you run hot water from your tap through DI vessel and into your van?

If so you'd have a tank full of hot for the day without the need of a heater.

nope tried it years ago.my tap connector kept sliding off with the hot water

[simon w]

Am I right in saying your low tds tap water allows you to fill your van direct from tap through DI resin?

Never done it myself but cant you run hot water from your tap through DI vessel and into your van?

If so you'd have a tank full of hot for the day without the need of a heater.

nope tried it years ago.my tap connector kept sliding off with the hot water

Wouldn't cost much to get a plumber to install a suitable tap to take your hose fittings seems like a cheap way to make hot pure water using your particular method of purifying water

[dazmond]

Am I right in saying your low tds tap water allows you to fill your van direct from tap through DI resin?

Never done it myself but cant you run hot water from your tap through DI vessel and into your van?

If so you'd have a tank full of hot for the day without the need of a heater.

nope tried it years ago.my tap connector kept sliding off with the hot water

Wouldn't cost much to get a plumber to install a suitable tap to take your hose fittings seems like a cheap way to make hot pure water using your particular method of purifying water

You can't get the water hot enough to make a difference to cleaning though mate. I'm having my heater fitted a week next Wed already paid a £900+deposit. 

[Splash & dash]

Daz.  From my understanding the system will use 1 ltr an hour on full continuous power.

As you are only using one pump I would imagine the system wont need to be running on max.   Plus will probably depend on the temp setting too. 

£5 a day would be a fair guess for you.  I would be interested in knowing how long it runs for over night when in frost mode (cold nights)  electric heater may still be the better option

the frost stat runs for 10 mins every hour if its 2c or below overnight.sod putting a heater in there as well.the whole point of spending all this money is so i can forget about having to put a heater in the van overnight on freezing nights as well as warm hoses in the day.

I live in a warmer part of the country to you but the frost  stat is exelent it’s only cut in on mine about a dozen times in three years as we don’t get that cold usually I think Ime right in saying that it circulates the water slower just to keep it from freezing up , I found that I needed to re calibrate my controllers in colder weather as water is thicker  when cold , cannot remember how I did it now but olive4 talked me through it , you will just be able to forget about draining things down or putting a heater in as it will fire up it’s self if it needs to one less thing to have to think about Ime sur3 you will be very happy with it , if you can afford it go for the stainless steel cabinet it looks great and doesn’t get chipped or go rusty

[paul alan]

Am I right in saying your low tds tap water allows you to fill your van direct from tap through DI resin?

Never done it myself but cant you run hot water from your tap through DI vessel and into your van?

If so you'd have a tank full of hot for the day without the need of a heater.

nope tried it years ago.my tap connector kept sliding off with the hot water

Wouldn't cost much to get a plumber to install a suitable tap to take your hose fittings seems like a cheap way to make hot pure water using your particular method of purifying water

£11.99 screwfix

[Pete Thompson]

Am I right in saying your low tds tap water allows you to fill your van direct from tap through DI resin?

Never done it myself but cant you run hot water from your tap through DI vessel and into your van?

If so you'd have a tank full of hot for the day without the need of a heater.

I have tried this, and yes it does work, but....

Firstly, the best I could get from my tap was about 35°C (by the time it reached the tank) which is certainly better than icy cold water on cold days, but not what I'd consider "Hot"

Secondly, I found that, to my surprise, hot water from the tap has a higher TDS than cold water (sometime MUCH higher), and it meant the resin didn't last long.

[dazmond]

how does heating water up raise the tds?

[simon w]

Interesting thanks Pete.  I have a high tds from my tap so use a 4040 RO static system in the garage and heat my water from a 9kw webasto heater which I've been doing since 2010.

My combi boiler (2 years old) puts out some pretty hot water, too hot to bath in without mixing in cold and 650 litre of it in a tank in a van would certainly stay hot enough all day to keep reels and brushes from freezing and hoses supple.

For single operators who have access to low tds tap water I'd certainly investigate this method further for it's possibilities. Like you've said you found hot had a higher tds but there may possibly be a way of overcoming this depending on which boiler you use at home to heat your water.

[Pete Thompson]

how does heating water up raise the tds?

No idea. It shouldn’t, because I can’t see how, but it does.

This hot water is from a 3 year old combi boiler.

[Dry Clean]

how does heating water up raise the tds?

No idea. It shouldn’t, because I can’t see how, but it does.

This hot water is from a 3 year old combi boiler.

Your tds meter is actually measuring the conductivity of the water, hot water is more conductive than cold so will have a higher
reading but the impurities that we remove will still be the same as the cold water reading.

[NWH]

Are you saying out the tap it rises when hot,my water come straight out my diesel heater at 60 degrees and it’s 000PPM

[Slacky]

Maybe hot dissolves those solids which cold wouldn't otherwise dissolve. Stands to reason, whether it makes a noticeable difference in the reading remains to be seen.

[Slacky]

https://www.quora.com/Which-would-conduct-electricity-better-hot-water-or-cold-water

[NWH]

Daz can you mail me your number if ok maderia147@gmail.com

[Jonny 87]

Looking forward to next Wednesday! And I’m not even getting a Webasto installed. 

Looking forward to seeing the pics and being updated.

I’m missing my hot water, (upgraded my system and lost my immersion tank) and I’m not sure how long till I bite the bullet and go down the diesel route.

Im in Scotland and it’s been -1 most of the day. 

[Tony dunmall]

-1 ouch

It got to about 13 here

[dazmond]

Looking forward to next Wednesday! And I’m not even getting a Webasto installed. 

Looking forward to seeing the pics and being updated.

I’m missing my hot water, (upgraded my system and lost my immersion tank) and I’m not sure how long till I bite the bullet and go down the diesel route.

Im in Scotland and it’s been -1 most of the day. 

im getting it installed a week next wed mate so another 11 days yet.

[Splash & dash]

how does heating water up raise the tds?

I have no idear on how the science works but it’s true , take a samp,e of cold water from the tank 000 then take a sample after it’s been through the boiler and is hot and you will get a reading of what ever 010 -020 etc then let that water cool to room temperature then cheak it again and it will read 000  just like magic it won’t however mark the glass maybe some one can explain this ?..... might be to do with the molecules reacting differently when hot becoming  agitated?.....

[Jonny 87]

Looking forward to next Wednesday! And I’m not even getting a Webasto installed. 

Looking forward to seeing the pics and being updated.

I’m missing my hot water, (upgraded my system and lost my immersion tank) and I’m not sure how long till I bite the bullet and go down the diesel route.

Im in Scotland and it’s been -1 most of the day. 

im getting it installed a week next wed mate so another 11 days yet.

Ah man! Thought it was this week. Doh.

Well, looking forward to seeing it next week then.

As a side note do you know if yours is going to be set up with a circulation feature? For instance when you turn your water off at the pole, the burner keeps running and pumps hot water back into your tank, warming that up?

I’ve heard of some doing that, and think that’s a good idea.

Griplatank know what they’re doing mind you. They seem to have the best hit box out there for reliability.

[dazmond]

Looking forward to next Wednesday! And I’m not even getting a Webasto installed. 

Looking forward to seeing the pics and being updated.

I’m missing my hot water, (upgraded my system and lost my immersion tank) and I’m not sure how long till I bite the bullet and go down the diesel route.

Im in Scotland and it’s been -1 most of the day. 

im getting it installed a week next wed mate so another 11 days yet.

Ah man! Thought it was this week. Doh.

Well, looking forward to seeing it next week then.

As a side note do you know if yours is going to be set up with a circulation feature? For instance when you turn your water off at the pole, the burner keeps running and pumps hot water back into your tank, warming that up?

I’ve heard of some doing that, and think that’s a good idea.

Griplatank know what they’re doing mind you. They seem to have the best hit box out there for reliability.

no idea jonny as ive never used a diesel heater before.im sure it will because it has a frost stat feature too to keep hoses/pumps from freezing up.

its a custom fit to my pure freedom tank and frame.they will also take my pump and controller out of my pumpbox and mount them with the heater.

[The Jester of Wibbly]

Probably no point circulating water other than frost protection.  It won't heat up by much if circulating it all the time while not in use. It will be a waste of diesel.

The system is designed to shut on and off during use saving fuel rather then sending water back to tank.

[Splash & dash]

Probably no point circulating water other than frost protection.  It won't heat up by much if circulating it all the time while not in use. It will be a waste of diesel.

The system is designed to shut on and off during use saving fuel rather then sending water back to tank.

No quite the opposite actually it is designed to run continually most people have a return to the tank with hot water mine will heat 1000 ltr by returning water to the tank by lunch time you can hardly bare to put your hand In the tank as the water is that hot , the last thing you want with a diesel heater is for it to be stop start all the time works far better if run all the time otherwise it will come up the screen causing premature failure

[KS Cleaning]

Probably no point circulating water other than frost protection.  It won't heat up by much if circulating it all the time while not in use. It will be a waste of diesel.

The system is designed to shut on and off during use saving fuel rather then sending water back to tank.

No quite the opposite actually it is designed to run continually most people have a return to the tank with hot water mine will heat 1000 ltr by returning water to the tank by lunch time you can hardly bare to put your hand In the tank as the water is that hot , the last thing you want with a diesel heater is for it to be stop start all the time works far better if run all the time otherwise it will come up the screen causing premature failure

This was the method I used when I had a Webasto 9kw heater, I used to run both pumps circulating back to the tank in the morning, ( wasn't very popular with the neighbours as it was quite noisy) when the water was cold first thing in the morning I ran the pumps on a low flow then gradually increased the flow as the water warmed up. I was also told that these heaters aren't designed to be  stop start. I also believe there is less draw on the batteries heating the water this way?

[The Jester of Wibbly]

Probably no point circulating water other than frost protection.  It won't heat up by much if circulating it all the time while not in use. It will be a waste of diesel.

The system is designed to shut on and off during use saving fuel rather then sending water back to tank.

No quite the opposite actually it is designed to run continually most people have a return to the tank with hot water mine will heat 1000 ltr by returning water to the tank by lunch time you can hardly bare to put your hand In the tank as the water is that hot , the last thing you want with a diesel heater is for it to be stop start all the time works far better if run all the time otherwise it will come up the screen causing premature failure

I'm just going by the advise I was given by Grippa

[Jonny 87]

Probably no point circulating water other than frost protection.  It won't heat up by much if circulating it all the time while not in use. It will be a waste of diesel.

The system is designed to shut on and off during use saving fuel rather then sending water back to tank.

No quite the opposite actually it is designed to run continually most people have a return to the tank with hot water mine will heat 1000 ltr by returning water to the tank by lunch time you can hardly bare to put your hand In the tank as the water is that hot , the last thing you want with a diesel heater is for it to be stop start all the time works far better if run all the time otherwise it will come up the screen causing premature failure

That’s what I was wondering.

We used to have a hot box when I worked for a company 10 years ago, and it was always failing, needing a new burner every few months and cost a fortune. That burner was set up so that every time you stopped the flow of water at the brush, it stopped the burner. In my head I always thought that it couldn’t be good for a burner constantly stopping and cooling down then firing back up again.

Will be interesting to see if grippatank set it with the recirculating.

With my old L5 gas heater if I recirculated my water, within half an hour of it recirculating the water in my tank went from cold, to warm. So I reckon with a webasto, it will easily be capable to run constant from say 8am to 12pm, then you’d have a tank of water well above 60 degrees to last you all afternoon. If not, you’d just fire up the burner again.

That should mean a healthier and longer life for the burner as it’s running constant for 3 or 4 hours a day, (rather than stop start) and also means your only using £5 or less of diesel.

[Jonny 87]

Probably no point circulating water other than frost protection.  It won't heat up by much if circulating it all the time while not in use. It will be a waste of diesel.

The system is designed to shut on and off during use saving fuel rather then sending water back to tank.

No quite the opposite actually it is designed to run continually most people have a return to the tank with hot water mine will heat 1000 ltr by returning water to the tank by lunch time you can hardly bare to put your hand In the tank as the water is that hot , the last thing you want with a diesel heater is for it to be stop start all the time works far better if run all the time otherwise it will come up the screen causing premature failure

I'm just going by the advise I was given by Grippa

Do you have a grippatank hot system?

If so, when you turn your flow off with a univalve or similar, does the burner cut out?

[The Jester of Wibbly]

Probably no point circulating water other than frost protection.  It won't heat up by much if circulating it all the time while not in use. It will be a waste of diesel.

The system is designed to shut on and off during use saving fuel rather then sending water back to tank.

No quite the opposite actually it is designed to run continually most people have a return to the tank with hot water mine will heat 1000 ltr by returning water to the tank by lunch time you can hardly bare to put your hand In the tank as the water is that hot , the last thing you want with a diesel heater is for it to be stop start all the time works far better if run all the time otherwise it will come up the screen causing premature failure

I'm just going by the advise I was given by Grippa

Do you have a grippatank hot system?

If so, when you turn your flow off with a univalve or similar, does the burner cut out?

No not yet buddy. Getting my grippa system upgraded next week.   

[Jonny 87]

Probably no point circulating water other than frost protection.  It won't heat up by much if circulating it all the time while not in use. It will be a waste of diesel.

The system is designed to shut on and off during use saving fuel rather then sending water back to tank.

No quite the opposite actually it is designed to run continually most people have a return to the tank with hot water mine will heat 1000 ltr by returning water to the tank by lunch time you can hardly bare to put your hand In the tank as the water is that hot , the last thing you want with a diesel heater is for it to be stop start all the time works far better if run all the time otherwise it will come up the screen causing premature failure

I'm just going by the advise I was given by Grippa

Do you have a grippatank hot system?

If so, when you turn your flow off with a univalve or similar, does the burner cut out?

No not yet buddy. Getting my grippa system upgraded next week.

Just in time for the cold snap! Great stuff.

Anyone else have a grippatank hot system and know how it’s set up?

Can’t seem to find details online of how it runs.

I’d like to think there is some kind of bypass valve, so that hot water from the burner goes to the pole, then when waters turned off at the brush head the bypass valve kicks in and starts putting hot water back to the tank.

For me that would also mean I could have my van set up with just one user, but On the couple
Of days a week I have someone out with me then they will also benefit from hot water from the tank, all be it after a couple of hours or so.

[The Jester of Wibbly]

Just in time for the cold snap! Great stuff.

Anyone else have a grippatank hot system and know how it’s set up?

Can’t seem to find details online of how it runs.

I’d like to think there is some kind of bypass valve, so that hot water from the burner goes to the pole, then when waters turned off at the brush head the bypass valve kicks in and starts putting hot water back to the tank.

For me that would also mean I could have my van set up with just one user, but On the couple
Of days a week I have someone out with me then they will also benefit from hot water from the tank, all be it after a couple of hours or so.

Hi Jonny

This is how Oliver explained it to me......


"The heater switches off when its upto temperature OR when the controllers are off / heater setting is off.


So in principle, yes if the pump is off, or DE is displayed, the heater will come upto heat quickly and turn off."


He also explained to me that heating the tank up using the circulation is extremely  inefficient. The system is to produce heat on demand.

[Delta]

The Grippa system has no valve. You have a choice of simply using hot water at the brush head or plugging the hose reel back to the tank when not in use. If the frost stat triggers the heater recirculates the water through the reel and back to the tank.

[Jonny 87]

Thanks guys!

👍

Starting to get the idea now. It’s a shame there’s not a bypass valve setting.

So am I right in saying that for the frost stat to work you have to remember to re-arrange your pipe work and connect back to tank?

[Spruce]

Looking forward to next Wednesday! And I’m not even getting a Webasto installed. 

Looking forward to seeing the pics and being updated.

I’m missing my hot water, (upgraded my system and lost my immersion tank) and I’m not sure how long till I bite the bullet and go down the diesel route.

Im in Scotland and it’s been -1 most of the day. 

im getting it installed a week next wed mate so another 11 days yet.

I'm interested in how they are going to sort the exhaust out Daz. You have been worried about drilling holes in the van's floor to secure your tank, but now Grippa will want to drill at least 1 if not 2  holes in the floor to accommodate the 38mm exhaust pipe and air intake pipe.

[Jonny 87]

Looking forward to next Wednesday! And I’m not even getting a Webasto installed. 

Looking forward to seeing the pics and being updated.

I’m missing my hot water, (upgraded my system and lost my immersion tank) and I’m not sure how long till I bite the bullet and go down the diesel route.

Im in Scotland and it’s been -1 most of the day. 

im getting it installed a week next wed mate so another 11 days yet.

I'm interested in how they are going to sort the exhaust out Daz. You have been worried about drilling holes in the van's floor to secure your tank, but now Grippa will want to drill at least 1 if not 2  holes in the floor to accommodate the 38mm exhaust pipe and air intake pipe.

The done thing nowadays seems to be...........

If you have a lease van and your handing it back in to the company, just strip out the flooring, and re-ply line it, covering all the evidence. Apparently you will Never have an issue that way. The companies don’t crawl underneath looking for small holes.

[dazmond]

Looking forward to next Wednesday! And I’m not even getting a Webasto installed. 

Looking forward to seeing the pics and being updated.

I’m missing my hot water, (upgraded my system and lost my immersion tank) and I’m not sure how long till I bite the bullet and go down the diesel route.

Im in Scotland and it’s been -1 most of the day. 

im getting it installed a week next wed mate so another 11 days yet.

I'm interested in how they are going to sort the exhaust out Daz. You have been worried about drilling holes in the van's floor to secure your tank, but now Grippa will want to drill at least 1 if not 2  holes in the floor to accommodate the 38mm exhaust pipe and air intake pipe.

ill probably pay the 7k balloon payment at the end of the lease and keep the van spruce.i only do 3-4k a year.if i look after it i could get another 10 years out of it(at least).thats why ive decided to invest in a diesel heater.i wouldnt have one fitted if i were going to hand it back in a few years.im thinking longer term.

although i might change my mind in a few years.we ll see.

[Spruce]

Thanks guys!

👍

Starting to get the idea now. It’s a shame there’s not a bypass valve setting.

So am I right in saying that for the frost stat to work you have to remember to re-arrange your pipe work and connect back to tank?

As the saying goes; you can't have your cake and eat it too.

Ionics recirculate the heat back to the tank when the hose tap is switched off. It does it with a pressure relief valve. But the down side is that the pump runs all the time. The upside is that you will get hot water all the time. The next downside is that Ionics can't fit a thermostatic temperature control valve - on a low temperature setting the process wouldn't work as the flow back to the tank wouldn't be zapping enough heat from the system. Ionics have included a summer and winter switch will reduces the winter temperature by around 10 degrees depending on how they have wired the switch up.

The downside with the other heaters is that when the boiler switches off it takes 180 seconds to complete its shutdown cycle which can't be interupted. It then takes another 180 second to restart the boiler and takes longer still to reach 'working' temperature. So the window cleaner who just starts to clean again after a short break will find he soon has cold water at the brush head if the heater has just entered its shutdown mode.  If it takes him 6 minutes to clean the front or back windows then the boiler will only just start to get going when the job is completed. Its easy to get out of sync with the heaters shutdown modes.

Having invested a large sum of money in his system he may start to feel that he has been short changed if it happens often.

I get rather frustrated waiting for the controller to restart the flow if I have to wait 4 seconds, let alone 6 minutes plus.

[dazmond]

the boiler wont shut down in between windows though spruce or else it wouldnt even get hot!

what ill do is when i start the van in the morning ill then fire up the boiler and recirculate back to tank while im on my way to my first job so my hoses are nice and supple from the off.

when i work,i work if you know what i mean.i dont faff about spruce.like today ive got 26 houses to clean all virtually right next to each other(only 2 van moves all day).same tomorrow and thursday.i do have days where im doing stand alones but ill spend at least30-60mins on each property.

better get off to work now.nice and sunny here in manchester.

[NWH]

I love hot water and when my diesel heater has a new charger and a couple of other things fitted I’ll be well pleased,I was talking to a plumber yesterday his advise was 2 x 3 kw elements into the static tank,apparently it can be set to heat from anything to 100 degrees if you were parking up and hardly moving that’s got to be the best option no battery drain to worry about. I’m going to be installing a new static system soon I may give it a go as said on here and by him it can be ready up and running in a couple of hours.

[Jonny 87]

Thanks guys!

👍

Starting to get the idea now. It’s a shame there’s not a bypass valve setting.

So am I right in saying that for the frost stat to work you have to remember to re-arrange your pipe work and connect back to tank?

As the saying goes; you can't have your cake and eat it too.

Ionics recirculate the heat back to the tank when the hose tap is switched off. It does it with a pressure relief valve. But the down side is that the pump runs all the time. The upside is that you will get hot water all the time. The next downside is that Ionics can't fit a thermostatic temperature control valve - on a low temperature setting the process wouldn't work as the flow back to the tank wouldn't be zapping enough heat from the system. Ionics have included a summer and winter switch will reduces the winter temperature by around 10 degrees depending on how they have wired the switch up.

The downside with the other heaters is that when the boiler switches off it takes 180 seconds to complete its shutdown cycle which can't be interupted. It then takes another 180 second to restart the boiler and takes longer still to reach 'working' temperature. So the window cleaner who just starts to clean again after a short break will find he soon has cold water at the brush head if the heater has just entered its shutdown mode.  If it takes him 6 minutes to clean the front or back windows then the boiler will only just start to get going when the job is completed. Its easy to get out of sync with the heaters shutdown modes.

Having invested a large sum of money in his system he may start to feel that he has been short changed if it happens often.

I get rather frustrated waiting for the controller to restart the flow if I have to wait 4 seconds, let alone 6 minutes plus.

Hmmmm, that’s interesting spruce.

So just thinking out loud, it should I’m probciple be very very easy to rig up a pressure relief valve yourself. Just fit that between the pump and reel, with a return to the tank. Then as soon as you turn the water off at your brush head, the pressure builds, opens the relief valve and starts putting hot water back into the tank.

When you turn the water back on at the brush head the pressure relief valve will be closed and then you divert the hot water to your brush.

As you said, downside is that the pump runs constantly, but you can have plenty enough power to combat that, but the plus side is that you get rid of the 180 second shut down, and get a hot tank of water by lunch time meaning you can turn off the boiler.

What exactly is it that kicks in the 180 second shut down?

[NWH]

If you don’t recirculate or keep the heater going the temp will drop if I want the water to remain as hot as possible for the next job I do this,it will climb back up to 60-70degrees but you have to have it on a slow flow on the controller I put it down to 10 in a minute or so it’ll climb 1 degree a second until it’s up to around the higher figure above.

[dazmond]

so how long after turning off your tap on your pole does the heater turn off?surely its not after a few seconds or the boiler just wouldnt heat the water up at all and it d be forever firing up or turning off.

[Splash & dash]

Probably no point circulating water other than frost protection.  It won't heat up by much if circulating it all the time while not in use. It will be a waste of diesel.

The system is designed to shut on and off during use saving fuel rather then sending water back to tank.

No quite the opposite actually it is designed to run continually most people have a return to the tank with hot water mine will heat 1000 ltr by returning water to the tank by lunch time you can hardly bare to put your hand In the tank as the water is that hot , the last thing you want with a diesel heater is for it to be stop start all the time works far better if run all the time otherwise it will come up the screen causing premature failure

I'm just going by the advise I was given by Grippa

Mine is Grippatank and that’s not the way it’s designed to work stop stop start is the worst thing you can do with one of theses heaters as it soots up the screen and causes premature failure mine runs 8 hours a day 5 days a week for k er 3 years now it certainly wouldn’t be working like it does if it was continuously stop start it also uses more battery power if run like that , I wonder if you mis understood what Grippatank said as Oliver was very clear as to the best way to run it , I think most would give the same advice I spoke to Varitech as I was looking at the heatwave 2 before I got the Grippatank one and they also said continual running is how it should be used

[Splash & dash]

Probably no point circulating water other than frost protection.  It won't heat up by much if circulating it all the time while not in use. It will be a waste of diesel.

The system is designed to shut on and off during use saving fuel rather then sending water back to tank.

No quite the opposite actually it is designed to run continually most people have a return to the tank with hot water mine will heat 1000 ltr by returning water to the tank by lunch time you can hardly bare to put your hand In the tank as the water is that hot , the last thing you want with a diesel heater is for it to be stop start all the time works far better if run all the time otherwise it will come up the screen causing premature failure

I'm just going by the advise I was given by Grippa

Do you have a grippatank hot system?

If so, when you turn your flow off with a univalve or similar, does the burner cut out?

Yes I have we run 2 hose reels on hot if only one is being used the other one is returning hot water to the tank  thus keeping the boiler going all the time , if you have both reels out and stop using water the system will shut down and fire up again when you start using water but generally we are using both reels if they are out , depending on temperature it will shut down in a matter of a couple of muinets if no water is being used or no return to the tank , hope this helps and makes sense , hopefully Oliver will see this post and put up an explanation of this that may be better

[Spruce]

Thanks guys!

👍

Starting to get the idea now. It’s a shame there’s not a bypass valve setting.

So am I right in saying that for the frost stat to work you have to remember to re-arrange your pipe work and connect back to tank?

As the saying goes; you can't have your cake and eat it too.

Ionics recirculate the heat back to the tank when the hose tap is switched off. It does it with a pressure relief valve. But the down side is that the pump runs all the time. The upside is that you will get hot water all the time. The next downside is that Ionics can't fit a thermostatic temperature control valve - on a low temperature setting the process wouldn't work as the flow back to the tank wouldn't be zapping enough heat from the system. Ionics have included a summer and winter switch will reduces the winter temperature by around 10 degrees depending on how they have wired the switch up.

The downside with the other heaters is that when the boiler switches off it takes 180 seconds to complete its shutdown cycle which can't be interupted. It then takes another 180 second to restart the boiler and takes longer still to reach 'working' temperature. So the window cleaner who just starts to clean again after a short break will find he soon has cold water at the brush head if the heater has just entered its shutdown mode.  If it takes him 6 minutes to clean the front or back windows then the boiler will only just start to get going when the job is completed. Its easy to get out of sync with the heaters shutdown modes.

Having invested a large sum of money in his system he may start to feel that he has been short changed if it happens often.

I get rather frustrated waiting for the controller to restart the flow if I have to wait 4 seconds, let alone 6 minutes plus.

Hmmmm, that’s interesting spruce.

So just thinking out loud, it should I’m probciple be very very easy to rig up a pressure relief valve yourself. Just fit that between the pump and reel, with a return to the tank. Then as soon as you turn the water off at your brush head, the pressure builds, opens the relief valve and starts putting hot water back into the tank.

When you turn the water back on at the brush head the pressure relief valve will be closed and then you divert the hot water to your brush.

As you said, downside is that the pump runs constantly, but you can have plenty enough power to combat that, but the plus side is that you get rid of the 180 second shut down, and get a hot tank of water by lunch time meaning you can turn off the boiler.

What exactly is it that kicks in the 180 second shut down?

The Webasto is programmed to shut down once the water in the internal water circuit reaches a perprogrammed heat.


On NWH's Thermo Top C is when the temperature reaches 77 degrees C. (When it reaches 74 degrees C its goes into half heat mode.)
It takes sometime to  heat 8 or 9 liters of water in the header tank and then heat is being removed from the system when you are cleaning windows. So no, the heater doesn't switch off between windows. NWH will give you an idea of how long it takes the heater to get up to working temperature.

When used as an engine and windscreen defroster, the normal time to warm the engine is around 30 minutes using the same heater. The Thermo Top C will heat the water in the engine first until it reaches 30 degrees C and then it will kick the internal heater fan on to defrost the windscreen if its switched on inside the vehicle.) It cuts off at 77 degrees C as that's just before the thermostat opens to pass water through the radiator to cool it.

NWH plugs his hose into the tank once he has finished cleaning windows and this is a manual bypass with the pump working. One could also use a 3 way ball valve to quickly swap the heat source from the pole to the tank.

With the Frostat that Spring sell they incorporate a thermometer on the outlet from the system to the hose reel. This reads the temperature in the van and is the trigger to activate the controller. Its suggested that hot water is run through the hose reel as that also keeps it from freezing up. The Frostat not only switches on the heater but also activates the pump as well.

The Frostat doesn't keep a watch on the temperature rise above 2 degrees. It just runs for 10 minutes and any heat taken from the internal heating circuit is pumped into the tank.  It switches off after 10 minutes and is only reactivated once the temperature drops to 2 degrees C again.
The water in the internal heating circuit is protected from frost as it is treated with antifreeze. The problem is that the pure water in the other chamber of the heat exchanger will freeze and damage the heat exchanger. So switching on the heater is to protect the pure water circuit.

Ionics bypass valve kickes off at 65psi. I would rather use a 3 way ball valve and redirect the hot water to the tank that way.

Here's an example
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-2-3-4-1-3-way-Ball-Valve-Stainless-Steel-Female-Port-T-Type-Lever-Handle/262760754224?hash=item3d2dc2ec30:m:m0HdHGkEzlvFpKUKk-ad64g

[NWH]

I walk back to the van with the pole still running disconnect lower the flow rate and plug into the tank so the heater thinks it still has to work but on a lower flow,by lowering the flow it allows more time for the water to pass through the heat exchanger making it heat the water in the system quicker. By disconnecting and it powering down it has to go through the heat up process again therefore draining the battery more,when it’s on full heat mode you can hear that it’s using the diesel in the motor when it’s taken over from the battery start up process.

[NWH]

This is the main reason people say by the time you’ve done a house it’s just starting to get hot,they’ve not recirculated the water from the previous job so it’s powering up and down all the time. After talking to a plumber the best solution for a consistent very hot water system would be to have an on demand system like this and a twin element 3kw static setup,you could turn the valve down to minimum on the heater early in the day and turn it up mid morning giving you very hot water. You would get away with it on milder winter days but not on days like this coming week.

[Jonny 87]

Thanks for the info spruce. Very knowledgeable as always.

Seems like there’s a bit of an art to this!

[dazmond]

This is the main reason people say by the time you’ve done a house it’s just starting to get hot,they’ve not recirculated the water from the previous job so it’s powering up and down all the time. After talking to a plumber the best solution for a consistent very hot water system would be to have an on demand system like this and a twin element 3kw static setup,you could turn the valve down to minimum on the heater early in the day and turn it up mid morning giving you very hot water. You would get away with it on milder winter days but not on days like this coming week.

so how long does it take for the heater to power down nigel when you turn off your pole tap?a few mins,5 mins?im often parked up for hours cleaning house after house.

[Jonny 87]

This is the main reason people say by the time you’ve done a house it’s just starting to get hot,they’ve not recirculated the water from the previous job so it’s powering up and down all the time. After talking to a plumber the best solution for a consistent very hot water system would be to have an on demand system like this and a twin element 3kw static setup,you could turn the valve down to minimum on the heater early in the day and turn it up mid morning giving you very hot water. You would get away with it on milder winter days but not on days like this coming week.

so how long does it take for the heater to power down nigel when you turn off your pole tap?a few mins,5 mins?im often parked up for hours cleaning house after house.

Daz I wonder if it would be a nice option for you to have a second pump, constantly circulating the hot water back to the tank.  Might be worth querying that with Oliver.

That way atleast youve got options.

[NWH]

I have a 12” piece of hose with a ez snap connector on it I just push it into the air vent in the top of the tank no need to have another pump doing it,if your parked up for hours even with the van running it will drain the battery. If I had this kind of work I’d go down the immersion route me personally do a few miles between each job so it gets topped up,these heaters are very very good but you must have 2   charged 110-115 amp hour battery’s in-line for them to provide consistent performance.

[Jonny 87]

I have a 12” piece of hose with a ez snap connector on it I just push it into the air vent in the top of the tank no need to have another pump doing it,if your parked up for hours even with the van running it will drain the battery. If I had this kind of work I’d go down the immersion route me personally do a few miles between each job so it gets topped up,these heaters are very very good but you must have 2   charged 110-115 amp hour battery’s in-line for them to provide consistent performance.

Grippatank provide 2 batteries with their set up, along with B2B relay, so surely if you plugged your van in at night and charged up those batteries that would last all day even if the van didn’t move much?

I could understand if you don’t do much mileage and never bench charge your batteries then you would start to run low, but as daz can run a cable to his van at night then that should get him through no?

[dazmond]

I have a 12” piece of hose with a ez snap connector on it I just push it into the air vent in the top of the tank no need to have another pump doing it,if your parked up for hours even with the van running it will drain the battery. If I had this kind of work I’d go down the immersion route me personally do a few miles between each job so it gets topped up,these heaters are very very good but you must have 2   charged 110-115 amp hour battery’s in-line for them to provide consistent performance.

Grippatank provide 2 batteries with their set up, along with B2B relay, so surely if you plugged your van in at night and charged up those batteries that would last all day even if the van didn’t move much?

I could understand if you don’t do much mileage and never bench charge your batteries then you would start to run low, but as daz can run a cable to his van at night then that should get him through no?

yes jonny.they wouldnt sell these heaters if they kept running the batteries down(thats why grippa install the smart chargers that dont just trickle charge the batteries but gives em more power when needed.)

[dazmond]

I have a 12” piece of hose with a ez snap connector on it I just push it into the air vent in the top of the tank no need to have another pump doing it,if your parked up for hours even with the van running it will drain the battery. If I had this kind of work I’d go down the immersion route me personally do a few miles between each job so it gets topped up,these heaters are very very good but you must have 2   charged 110-115 amp hour battery’s in-line for them to provide consistent performance.

you still havent answered my question?how long does it take to power down when you turn off your pole tap?cheers nigel.

[NWH]

It depends at what stage it’s at if you turn it on with no flow it will go through the initial heat up mode where it heats the header tank up ready to heat the water up that you’ll be putting through it,I would say as soon as you turn off your pole it will start to power down in a couple of minutes or so. Not long after you dead end the pole it will start to slow down and stop pumping diesel into the heater.

[dazmond]

It depends at what stage it’s at if you turn it on with no flow it will go through the initial heat up mode where it heats the header tank up ready to heat the water up that you’ll be putting through it,I would say as soon as you turn off your pole it will start to power down in a couple of minutes or so. Not long after you dead end the pole it will start to slow down and stop pumping diesel into the heater.

ok cheers nigel.most of my work is wfp with very little trad work so in theory as long as i dont keep the pole tap shut off for more than a few mins the heater will keep running until it reaches the set temperature?(once its been through the initial fire up cycle)without going into shut down mode?

what do you do at lunchtime?keep the van running with the heater recirculating water back to the tank?(so the heater is continually running)or turn it off and fire it back up for your afternoons work?

[NWH]

I don’t ever stop for lunch I stop for a tea on the way to the next job as soon as I finish a job I plug back into the tank and drop the flow down to 10 it then heats the header tank water back up to between 50-70 degrees. By doing this as soon as you turn the flow up and plug back in you’ll have hot water almost straight away or within 20-30 seconds.

[dazmond]

cheers nigel.i think ill probably recirculate back to tank at lunchtime with the engine running esp in the colder winter months.

cant wait to get it fitted!not long to wait now.

[Jonny 87]

cheers nigel.i think ill probably recirculate back to tank at lunchtime with the engine running esp in the colder winter months.

cant wait to get it fitted!not long to wait now.

Surely we all have the pole switched off for a couple of minutes atleast though between houses mate, even on compact work. Even if it’s just to have a chat with a customer, write you’re slip to put through the door etc.

I’m gonna make the jump soon, but I think I’m
Going to make sure it’s a 2 man install. So I can have pump 2 constantly feeding the heated water back to the tank, boiler will be constantly running, and then according to others, by lunch time I should be able to just power everything down and have a tank of very hot water left for the afternoon.

For my work, even though it’s compact, I know there’s a couple of minutes here and there that the heater would power down, then the 6 minutes or so that it takes to get to full working temperature again would be a pain.

[The Jester of Wibbly]

I will be running my spare controller all the time back to the tank during compact work.  I will set it running as I leave for my first job.  If I am going to have the system off for 30 mins or more due to lunch or driving I will shut it down.

This way i think by the afternoon what ever water i have left in my tank will be of reasonable temperature to work with without the heater on.

[dazmond]

cheers nigel.i think ill probably recirculate back to tank at lunchtime with the engine running esp in the colder winter months.

cant wait to get it fitted!not long to wait now.

Surely we all have the pole switched off for a couple of minutes atleast though between houses mate, even on compact work. Even if it’s just to have a chat with a customer, write you’re slip to put through the door etc.

I’m gonna make the jump soon, but I think I’m
Going to make sure it’s a 2 man install. So I can have pump 2 constantly feeding the heated water back to the tank, boiler will be constantly running, and then according to others, by lunch time I should be able to just power everything down and have a tank of very hot water left for the afternoon.

For my work, even though it’s compact, I know there’s a couple of minutes here and there that the heater would power down, then the 6 minutes or so that it takes to get to full working temperature again would be a pain.

i never have to write out slips/invoices etc as i sort them the night before.i very rarely talk to a customer (without window cleaning at the same time!)the odd time i do stop working longer than a few mins or so then so be it.6 mins is nothing(half a house)

[Mike Halliday]

With constant circulation it’s more  efficient  & cost effective to feed into a header tank rather that the main water tank. If you main tank feeds a much smaller header tank (with a ball valve) and this header tank feeds the pump, when the water returns back into the header tank after going through the heater it will preheat much quicker.

As it enter the heater at a higher temp you use less gas /diesel to bring it up to working  temperature. Also you are not  unnecessarily heating up your full main water tank.

I don’t think this option is available from hot WFP manufactures but it’s used by other industry who clean with hot water so anyone doing a self build it might be useful to incorporate such a system

[NWH]

The heater has an internal flexi hose I changed this for the same with a flat blade screw,if you shut this off it gets hotter than standard heaters as no cold water passes through it I’ve been doing it in summer for years. Not recommended if it’s under warranty though.

[dazmond]

today i timed myself.apart from 30 mins for lunch and a 10 min coffee break this afternoon my intervals in between jobs/windows with my pole tap off was no longer then 3 mins(mostly 2 mins).usually it was to move my hose or trad the odd ground floor windows.

is this a short enough interval to keep the heater from going into "shutting down" mode?

[The Jester of Wibbly]

today i timed myself.apart from 30 mins for lunch and a 10 min coffee break this afternoon my intervals in between jobs/windows with my pole tap off was no longer then 3 mins(mostly 2 mins).usually it was to move my hose or trad the odd ground floor windows.

is this a short enough interval to keep the heater from going into "shutting down" mode?

Hi Daz.

I think we are going to have play it one day at a time.  Just get used to the equipment and see how it handles downtime. Then adapt your methods of use to your needs.

[Splash & dash]

today i timed myself.apart from 30 mins for lunch and a 10 min coffee break this afternoon my intervals in between jobs/windows with my pole tap off was no longer then 3 mins(mostly 2 mins).usually it was to move my hose or trad the odd ground floor windows.

is this a short enough interval to keep the heater from going into "shutting down" mode?

My guess would be that it will shut down have a good chat to Oliver explain what you are trying to accomplish and he will be able to modify it to suite your style of work to a degree that’s what he did with mine anyway,

[The Jester of Wibbly]

Probably will keep a box of tea bags and a mug in the van.  TEA ON TAP. 

[dazmond]

today i timed myself.apart from 30 mins for lunch and a 10 min coffee break this afternoon my intervals in between jobs/windows with my pole tap off was no longer then 3 mins(mostly 2 mins).usually it was to move my hose or trad the odd ground floor windows.

is this a short enough interval to keep the heater from going into "shutting down" mode?

My guess would be that it will shut down have a good chat to Oliver explain what you are trying to accomplish and he will be able to modify it to suite your style of work to a degree that’s what he did with mine anyway,

that means the heater will be firing up and shutting down many times over a day which is supposed to be bad for the burners(as well as fluctuating water temperature).i was hoping it would just keep running.it doesnt sound like these heaters are suitable for wfp really.

[p1w1]

today i timed myself.apart from 30 mins for lunch and a 10 min coffee break this afternoon my intervals in between jobs/windows with my pole tap off was no longer then 3 mins(mostly 2 mins).usually it was to move my hose or trad the odd ground floor windows.

is this a short enough interval to keep the heater from going into "shutting down" mode?

My guess would be that it will shut down have a good chat to Oliver explain what you are trying to accomplish and he will be able to modify it to suite your style of work to a degree that’s what he did with mine anyway,

that means the heater will be firing up and shutting down many times over a day which is supposed to be bad for the burners(as well as fluctuating water temperature).i was hoping it would just keep running.it doesnt sound like these heaters are suitable for wfp really.

still time to cancel your order, personally i would have asked all these questions first  . I dont know why you just dont rig up filling your DI with hot water from home, you've said yourself hot doesn't make you quicker or is that necessary. If its supple hoses in winter you want then hot straight to DI will do the job and save you over 4k.

[The Jester of Wibbly]

Have a chat with Oliver like I did yesterday following reflections posts.   That's why I'm now going to run my other pump all the time on a trickle.   I don't think it will cost much more to run it this way.

He did say the system will go into a standby mode of some kind when it comes to temperature without turning off for a short period of time.  So you will have to see how it works for you. 

He also said the system is intelligent and designed to switch on and off at times.  But not to do it too many times when working compact.  It does not damage the heater but will shorten the life of a service before getting in cleaned out.

As you say.  Your time between jobs is very short so you probably won't have it running that much longer than you would working on the glass.

You have a small tank like me so come the afternoon when your tank is less than half full you may get away with turning the burner off as your tank water should be warm.

[Splash & dash]

today i timed myself.apart from 30 mins for lunch and a 10 min coffee break this afternoon my intervals in between jobs/windows with my pole tap off was no longer then 3 mins(mostly 2 mins).usually it was to move my hose or trad the odd ground floor windows.










It will be fine just have two heat exchangers and one of them returning water to the tank all the time and the boiler will stay on all the time this is what we do and never have a problem , you are stressing yourself unnessaseraly Oliver is no fool talk to him and he will give you options as to the best way to do it for your situation
is this a short enough interval to keep the heater from going into "shutting down" mode?

My guess would be that it will shut down have a good chat to Oliver explain what you are trying to accomplish and he will be able to modify it to suite your style of work to a degree that’s what he did with mine anyway,

that means the heater will be firing up and shutting down many times over a day which is supposed to be bad for the burners(as well as fluctuating water temperature).i was hoping it would just keep running.it doesnt sound like these heaters are suitable for wfp really.

[Splash & dash]

Have a chat with Oliver like I did yesterday following reflections posts.   That's why I'm now going to run my other pump all the time on a trickle.   I don't think it will cost much more to run it this way.

He did say the system will go into a standby mode of some kind when it comes to temperature without turning off for a short period of time.  So you will have to see how it works for you. 

He also said the system is intelligent and designed to switch on and off at times.  But not to do it too many times when working compact.  It does not damage the heater but will shorten the life of a service before getting in cleaned out.

As you say.  Your time between jobs is very short so you probably won't have it running that much longer than you would working on the glass.

You have a small tank like me so come the afternoon when your tank is less than half full you may get away with turning the burner off as your tank water should be warm.

Sound advice it will be fine we have a 1000 ltr system and when I work on my own after lunch I still have about 5-600 ltr in the tank it’s that hot you cannot put your hand in it , if you want to you could turn the boiler off and use it that way we do that in the summer months , with a 500 ltr tank it will heat up much quicker as you will have half the water I do , Oliver is the expert but if you want to give me a ring Ime more than happy to talk you through what we do it’s difficult to put it all in writing on hear

[Jonny 87]

Daz id definitely have a chat to Oliver before next week.

As above, a hassle free option for you would be to get a second pump fitted to circle the hot water back to your tank, then by lunch time you can jusy turn the burner off.

I’ve been looking up a lot on the webasto heaters over us last few days, and this seems to be the best and most efficient way. It would also tie in with why I had so many issues all
Those years ago with the webasto heater, ours was constantly stop Starting and then every 4 months or so the burner would die, meaning a £300 bill. The technology has probably improved inside them too mind you.

It’s worth while having the chat though. 👍

[The Jester of Wibbly]

Have a chat with Oliver like I did yesterday following reflections posts.   That's why I'm now going to run my other pump all the time on a trickle.   I don't think it will cost much more to run it this way.

He did say the system will go into a standby mode of some kind when it comes to temperature without turning off for a short period of time.  So you will have to see how it works for you. 

He also said the system is intelligent and designed to switch on and off at times.  But not to do it too many times when working compact.  It does not damage the heater but will shorten the life of a service before getting in cleaned out.

As you say.  Your time between jobs is very short so you probably won't have it running that much longer than you would working on the glass.

You have a small tank like me so come the afternoon when your tank is less than half full you may get away with turning the burner off as your tank water should be warm.

Sound advice it will be fine we have a 1000 ltr system and when I work on my own after lunch I still have about 5-600 ltr in the tank it’s that hot you cannot put your hand in it , if you want to you could turn the boiler off and use it that way we do that in the summer months , with a 500 ltr tank it will heat up much quicker as you will have half the water I do , Oliver is the expert but if you want to give me a ring Ime more than happy to talk you through what we do it’s difficult to put it all in writing on hear

Thanks for all your advice buddy. It helped me big time to get my head around the procedures.  Oliver also put my mind to rest last night too.

Daz. You will be fine mate

[NWH]

Daz you are having the plug in overnight option which I’m having if you charge on the mains every other night your heater will run fine but you will need to do this,if you stop for lunch and you have a bit of a drive to the next lot of work it’ll be fine if it powers down once or twice,as a rule if you want hot water between jobs just recirculate it back to tank it’ll keep the heater working turn the flow down the lower the flow back to tank the hotter the header tank will be.

[johnwillan]

Hi Dazmond
Spuce's reply (No 63) explains perfectly how the Grippa system works, as stated it will not shut down each time you stop the flow.

As explained we run these units and they are great, recirculating on route, between cleans or during breaks does raise the temperature but it's not imperative, I'd say it's more a personal choice.

I suggest you wait and see, I'm sure you won't be disappointed.

HTH

John

[Splash & dash]

Hi Dazmond
Spuce's reply (No 63) explains perfectly how the Grippa system works, as stated it will not shut down each time you stop the flow.

As explained we run these units and they are great, recirculating on route, between cleans or during breaks does raise the temperature but it's not imperative, I'd say it's more a personal choice.

I suggest you wait and see, I'm sure you won't be disappointed.

HTH

John

On what are you basing this ? It will shut down in a short space of time if the flow is stoped , this is why the return to tank is put there to prevent it shutting down and keeping the water in the hose reel cerculating so is stays hot

[NWH]

Above is correct I’ve had 1 for 12 years if you don’t recirculate back to tank it will after a short while go into shut down mode,as for servicing these things a year  or 3 yearly service is rubbish you’ll know if the burner or the heat exchanger needs replacing because it won’t heat the water as hot. I changed my burner after 11 years and at the time it was still working my main issues with heat was battery power.

[Splash & dash]

Above is correct I’ve had 1 for 12 years if you don’t recirculate back to tank it will after a short while go into shut down mode,as for servicing these things a year  or 3 yearly service is rubbish you’ll know if the burner or the heat exchanger needs replacing because it won’t heat the water as hot. I changed my burner after 11 years and at the time it was still working my main issues with heat was battery power.

At last someone who knows what they are talking about , to many people voicing opinions on something they have no experience with and giving out confusing and wrong information to people considering buying these systems

[dazmond]

cheers lads.ill make sure they fit a recirculate back to tank on the system when i take it in next wed morning.

IMO if the burners on these heaters soot up and fail prematurely due to constant stopping and starting(firing up and shutting down)then they should fit a recirculate feature on them as standard.shouldnt they?

so to get the best out of these heaters is to keep them running constantly for most of your working day with minimum shut downs/start ups?

[dazmond]

im surprised theres no videos showing how these heaters work

[Slacky]

today i timed myself.apart from 30 mins for lunch and a 10 min coffee break this afternoon my intervals in between jobs/windows with my pole tap off was no longer then 3 mins(mostly 2 mins).usually it was to move my hose or trad the odd ground floor windows.

is this a short enough interval to keep the heater from going into "shutting down" mode?

My guess would be that it will shut down have a good chat to Oliver explain what you are trying to accomplish and he will be able to modify it to suite your style of work to a degree that’s what he did with mine anyway,

that means the heater will be firing up and shutting down many times over a day which is supposed to be bad for the burners(as well as fluctuating water temperature).i was hoping it would just keep running.it doesnt sound like these heaters are suitable for wfp really.

Can’t you fit a shrader fitting on the end of your reel hose Daz and feed that in to the top of your vans tank?

[Splash & dash]

cheers lads.ill make sure they fit a recirculate back to tank on the system when i take it in next wed morning.

IMO if the burners on these heaters soot up and fail prematurely due to constant stopping and starting(firing up and shutting down)then they should fit a recirculate feature on them as standard.shouldnt they?

so to get the best out of these heaters is to keep them running constantly for most of your working day with minimum shut downs/start ups?

Ours has been run 8 hours a day for 5 days a week over 3 years still going strong it is connected up as I have already described so I think that proves the way it’s designed to work , Ime sure you will be pleased with it just takes maybe a different aproch to what you are used to

[dazmond]

ill be able to fit a piece of hose on my microbore and feed it through the middle of my tank lid overnight so the frost stat will kick in if needed matt.

[Splash & dash]

today i timed myself.apart from 30 mins for lunch and a 10 min coffee break this afternoon my intervals in between jobs/windows with my pole tap off was no longer then 3 mins(mostly 2 mins).usually it was to move my hose or trad the odd ground floor windows.

is this a short enough interval to keep the heater from going into "shutting down" mode?

My guess would be that it will shut down have a good chat to Oliver explain what you are trying to accomplish and he will be able to modify it to suite your style of work to a degree that’s what he did with mine anyway,

that means the heater will be firing up and shutting down many times over a day which is supposed to be bad for the burners(as well as fluctuating water temperature).i was hoping it would just keep running.it doesnt sound like these heaters are suitable for wfp really.

Can’t you fit a shrader fitting on the end of your reel hose Daz and feed that in to the top of your vans tank?
[/quote
Yes that’s how mine is done but using easy snap fittings but the system will still shut down if it’s not connected back to the tank within a coup,e of muinets, mine has two heat exchangers if I am only using one hosereel the other one is connected to the tank so the boiler stays running all the time , hope that makes sense

[dazmond]

as long as the heater doesnt shut down every time i turn the pole tap off i reckon itll be fine.i could do with it today!coldest its been so far(_-4 overnight here).luckily i put an oil filled radiator in my van overnight last night when i got back from the gym so nothings frozen.got a full UPVC clean and conny roof job to do today as well as my normal regular window cleaning.

[dazmond]

today i timed myself.apart from 30 mins for lunch and a 10 min coffee break this afternoon my intervals in between jobs/windows with my pole tap off was no longer then 3 mins(mostly 2 mins).usually it was to move my hose or trad the odd ground floor windows.

is this a short enough interval to keep the heater from going into "shutting down" mode?

My guess would be that it will shut down have a good chat to Oliver explain what you are trying to accomplish and he will be able to modify it to suite your style of work to a degree that’s what he did with mine anyway,

that means the heater will be firing up and shutting down many times over a day which is supposed to be bad for the burners(as well as fluctuating water temperature).i was hoping it would just keep running.it doesnt sound like these heaters are suitable for wfp really.

still time to cancel your order, personally i would have asked all these questions first  . I dont know why you just dont rig up filling your DI with hot water from home, you've said yourself hot doesn't make you quicker or is that necessary. If its supple hoses in winter you want then hot straight to DI will do the job and save you over 4k.

ive tried it and it doesnt work for me.also id have to refill in the morning before work.sod that.i do all that as one of my "end of the day" jobs ready for the next days work.ive also tried gas heaters.not interested in fitting an immersion heater so the only option left is diesel or stick with cold water.

hot water is a luxury and is not needed generally but it does make your working life easier and more comfortable.i also dont have to remember to put a heater in my van on freezing cold nights,worry about the water freezing in the hose,nice supple hoses,easier to clean certain dirt/marks off the glass and frames and easier add on jobs.

it looks good too esp for the customers and sets you apart from your competition in your area.

[NWH]

My personal opinion is that hot water is needed I just don’t find cold cleans anywhere near as well as hot water,I clean a house with PVC frames and the guy down the road does a similar house but he uses cold,the houses were built at the same time his frames look as old as the house the frames on the house I clean look just a couple of years old due to the PVC looking in really good condition compared. If your cleaning plastic framed windows most of the time I would say hot water is essential not matter how cold the weather is you can use water as hot as you like I’ve never had thermal shock on PVC Windows.

[dazmond]

My personal opinion is that hot water is needed I just don’t find cold cleans anywhere near as well as hot water,I clean a house with PVC frames and the guy down the road does a similar house but he uses cold,the houses were built at the same time his frames look as old as the house the frames on the house I clean look just a couple of years old due to the PVC looking in really good condition compared. If your cleaning plastic framed windows most of the time I would say hot water is essential not matter how cold the weather is you can use water as hot as you like I’ve never had thermal shock on PVC Windows.

theres defo a few window frames on my round that are a bit mouldy that ll be easier to clean with hot water for sure

[simon w]

In the winter the half inch radiator hoses (black) are disconnected and placed on the tee piece as shown in the photo so that if the temperature falls to 2 degrees the heater can kick in and circulate water through the Webasto heater to protect it against frost.

In the summer they are left connected to the two van mounted hose reels in the van.

I have only been experimenting with keeping the heater on all day with one pump running at all times and returning water at a flow rate of 5 back to the tank in order to retain maximum heat. This would be simple if only using one hose reel but has been do able with two of us working as long as I'm organised. My method has been to have a short length of pole hose  with a tail end which I plug into the easy snap fitting  on the hose reel, drop the flow to 5 and lower the pole hose into the top of the tank.

[Dry Clean]

My personal opinion is that hot water is needed I just don’t find cold cleans anywhere near as well as hot water,I clean a house with PVC frames and the guy down the road does a similar house but he uses cold,the houses were built at the same time his frames look as old as the house the frames on the house I clean look just a couple of years old due to the PVC looking in really good condition compared. If your cleaning plastic framed windows most of the time I would say hot water is essential not matter how cold the weather is you can use water as hot as you like I’ve never had thermal shock on PVC Windows.

theres defo a few window frames on my round that are a bit mouldy that ll be easier to clean with hot water for sure

I'm sure after emptying your pockets of £4.5k plus ongoing costs you'll find more than a few mouldy window frames, (wink)
there's no excuse for mouldy window frames cold water only or not.

[dazmond]

In the winter the half inch radiator hoses (black) are disconnected and placed on the tee piece as shown in the photo so that if the temperature falls to 2 degrees the heater can kick in and circulate water through the Webasto heater to protect it against frost.

In the summer they are left connected to the two van mounted hose reels in the van.

I have only been experimenting with keeping the heater on all day with one pump running at all times and returning water at a flow rate of 5 back to the tank in order to retain maximum heat. This would be simple if only using one hose reel but has been do able with two of us working as long as I'm organised. My method has been to have a short length of pole hose  with a tail end which I plug into the easy snap fitting  on the hose reel, drop the flow to 5 and lower the pole hose into the top of the tank.

thanks for posting simon

[Delta]

Seems like a bargain compared to some of the prices mentioned on here. It is used but will return to tank when brush is switched off.

http://www.ionicsystems.com/uk/product/9kw-hotbox/

[dazmond]

i wanted a brand new heater to go with the van plus it needs a smart battery to battery charging unit fitted to keep the batteries topped up in between jobs(due to the new temperature sensing alternators on vans manufactured after 2015).im thinking longer term.im hoping i get at least 10 years out of my van and heater.so no second hand gear.

[NWH]

What happens if your ionic system goes wrong and there’s more on them to go wrong,with a GrippaTank system if you have the knowledge you should have WFP 10 years plus things can be got round with a bit of DIY I can’t see that with an ionic setup. I’ve heard people say when they’ve gone wrong that they have told them they’ll have to drive to Swindon lol yeah right oh then see you in the morning.

[Splash & dash]

Tomorrow is the day 😂😂😂😂😂😂

[andyM]

Tomorrow is the day 😂😂😂😂😂😂

I'm assuming he's arrived at the 5 star Premier Inn by now?
Probably got given Lenny Henry's room too! 

[Jonny 87]

D day!

Bet daz is having a continental breakfast, playing some Drums, going to the gym, then getting the diesel system fitted!

What a day!

 

[lal]

 I'm looking forward to hearing Dazmonds future reviews on the Grippa Diesel heater, as i will be getting one
 very soon.

[dazmond]

D day!

Bet daz is having a continental breakfast, playing some Drums, going to the gym, then getting the diesel system fitted!

What a day!

 

Just had a full english in a brasserie in Cambridge with my missus.!😃

looking forward to picking my van up around 5 later. Chauffeur picking us up too.

Have a good day lads 😃

[KS Cleaning]

 I'm looking forward to hearing Dazmonds future reviews on the Grippa Diesel heater, as i will be getting one
 very soon.

Well it's pretty obvious, just a month or so back he was saying there are no benefits of hot water and it's better to keep things simple, now that he's got a hot water system he'll be saying it's the best thing since sliced bread and everyone should have one

[NWH]

He will be saying that because the same as all the others they have not used hot so know nothing about it maybe that’s your reason,yes he will be raving about hot water because he won’t have to worry about the safety aspect of having hot water he won’t have to worry about a frozen tank in the morning,and the real bonus will be his easy work will become much easier overall.

[NWH]

Another thing is he won’t have a Tax bill probably for the next couple of years because he’s put money back into his business to offset against his earnings,wise move all round Daz.

[Jonny 87]

Come on daz, you’ve had your diesel heater for atleast 45 minutes now and I can’t see any pictures.

 

[KS Cleaning]

He will be saying that because the same as all the others they have not used hot so know nothing about it maybe that’s your reason,yes he will be raving about hot water because he won’t have to worry about the safety aspect of having hot water he won’t have to worry about a frozen tank in the morning,and the real bonus will be his easy work will become much easier overall.

If that's aimed at me what do you mean by' that's your reason'?

[DeLuce]

Come on daz, you’ve had your diesel heater for atleast 45 minutes now and I can’t see any pictures.

 

I know, I've come on the forum right now just to check!!!  Lol 

[֍Winp®oClean֍]

I reckon he's pumping iron in a "webasto" string vest!!

[The Jester of Wibbly]

He is probably driving home. 4 to 5 hours on the gridlock motorway network.

Also probably had to have an hour worth of handover and training before heading home.

[Dry Clean]

Another thing is he won’t have a Tax bill probably for the next couple of years because he’s put money back into his business to offset against his earnings,wise move all round Daz.

He's on close to £40k a year, how will £4.5k get him out of tax for the next few years ? its a tax saving of roughly £1340.

[NWH]

He’s got a new van must be allowing 3-4K a year for that as expenditure he’s just spent a fair few grand on that system that can all be put through as 1 expense,a decent accountant should get his tax down a we bit more than 1200 lol

[֍Winp®oClean֍]

He’s got a new van must be allowing 3-4K a year for that as expenditure he’s just spent a fair few grand on that system that can all be put through as 1 expense,a decent accountant should get his tax down a we bit more than 1200 lol

Yep.... then double tax the year after with POA!!

[dazmond]

First pic at the fitting centre. 

[dazmond]

He is probably driving home. 4 to 5 hours on the gridlock motorway network.

Also probably had to have an hour worth of handover and training before heading home.

Peter gave us a lift to Cambridge and another guy picked us up. Went really smoothly mate. Had a good day out then a 20min chat and run through of the system then 3 and a half hour  drive  back home.

How did yours go yesterday Paul? I can't wait to try it out properly tomorrow. 😀

[Jonny 87]

Nice!

I thought that unit was huge! Then I realised you have your tank long ways in your van, forgot about that. 

Looks a very tidy install.

Keep us posted as to how it runs.

I’ve convinced myself to get the same set up in the new year, so looking forward to hearing how it goes. 👍 I’ve only heard good things about the grippa hydroheat.

[NWH]

They are all the same it’s a thermo tip C unit it won’t work any different to a varitech pure freedom and ionic different housing that’s all.

[Jonny 87]

They are all the same it’s a thermo tip C unit it won’t work any different to a varitech pure freedom and ionic different housing that’s all.

Doing my research I’ve seen inside a few different units and they look different. Xlines for instance looks very different inside compared to others. Must be subtle differences between different suppliers.