[P @ F]

Thoughts welcome on what i should do .....

Got a call 9.15 last night from custie , he said im not acusing you but i find it strange that the windows get cleaned and roof is shattered when i come home !

I went to see it today but they were not home , this is what i found , it wasnt like that when i got there and it wasnt like that when i left at 4pm .

I definately did not do it , so how could this happen ??    ??




Rich

[Blue Frog Systems]

You need to check the area for debris that could have come off the roof... check the conny gutters too. If no joy, ask the neighbours if they heard anything.

Also take a photo of the impact point too

[Roy Cauldery]

As above-and why did it take 5 hours for them to call you if you left at 4p.m?
Might be a long shot,but are there any home cctv systems on any neighbouring properties?
You may have to get police involved(possible break in-neighbours hear starnge sounds etc..)?
Maybe involve your insurer if it looks like your gonna kop for the blame(not an admission of guilt but will help keep you at arms length if they have to negotiate on your behalf)
Definetly got to consider every angle no matter how daft it might seem as this will uphold your proffesional image in the eyes of the customer

Good luck

Roy

[P @ F]

Done all that , gutters have nothing in them , there is an impact point on the pane , funnily enough it looks just like the corner of a superlight has hit it !
One thing i have noticed is there is a football in the corner that im sure wasnt there yesterday ?
They have kids , but are in late teens, i just cant see them with this undersized ball , also if you look at the pic there is a row of houses right behind , maybe it came over the fence.

Rich

[richardlingard]

thats a tile come off the roof or some render that is

[Cliff perkins]

Tell them u found a bit of roof tile in the gutter must have washed of with the rain,regardless what u say they are trying to pull a fast 1 and claim on your insurance.it might be that it happened while they were out still doesnt mean it was you.
They have nobody else to blame.
Same thing happened to me once and i know i didnt do it aswell.stick by your guns mate if you know it wasnt you.

[richardlingard]

never in a million years would a football or superlight do that, it has ben hit with force with something heavy, they are designed not to smash easily

[LWC]

Gulp is all i can say when i see that pic.

But like said youd have to hit that with some force, and how would you at that angle? Is that the fence on the other side, surely your no where near that pain and reach over the front of the conserv. If that makes sense?

Anyway, im stuck on what to say, but i cant see youve done it...and if you had of, youd of known about it when you were there cause it wouldve made a hell of a noise

[mick hay]

On 2 occasions, 2 different customers of mine have had panes of double glazing shatter for no reason. One was sitting in the conservatory when it went.

 Just so your armed with some info, ask a glazing company if they know of any reason why this happens. It could just be a coincidence that you cleaned it, and it shattered after.

[S.A.J]

Ask a conservatory company to have a look and see if they can tell you/custy how it broke!!  

How old is the conservatory? might have been a defected panel I have heard of some just randomly shattering!! (not that common tho)

Or a bird flying over and dropped something I have heard of that too!!

Apart from that mate I dont know!!  

[bobplum]

the short answer is you will never know
The problem is what do you do
say not me and loose customer
say not me but will go half on a new pane
say not me but will replace,(if its cheaper enough)

only you can decide

[keyser soze]

have you got a hot system bob

[Ian101]

if your innocent then tell them that your innocent.

if theyre trying it on they will take hint and go away

if theyre genuine ... well not your problem as you didnt do it

so with a clear conscience tell them to go away

your could replace at your expense and still loose them if they think you did it

i would not pay a penny towards it neither as admission of guilt if you do.

[Roy Harding]

On 2 occasions, 2 different customers of mine have had panes of double glazing shatter for no reason. One was sitting in the conservatory when it went.

 Just so your armed with some info, ask a glazing company if they know of any reason why this happens. It could just be a coincidence that you cleaned it, and it shattered after.

Mick is right sometimes they do go bang without reason. I have come across this a few times over the years, and when I asked what had happened they said they just exploded as they were there.

Roy

[bobplum]

have you got a hot system bob

NO BUT THINKING ABOUT DOING AN IMMERSION HEATER THIS WEEK END

[P @ F]

Well curiousity got the better of me so i just took a drive out to see them , the wife was there and let me in to see the damage , she also claimed she was there yesterday ironing .
Then she recalled hearing a big bang whilst i was there , but she did not come to the conny to investigate , i would have wouldnt you ?
When i left i rang the bell even though the car wasnt on the drive , nobody came to the door !

She said they had a guy in to see it this morning , he said it was a big impact to break it , and there is a clear point of impact visable .

I told her i would not lie to her , if i had broken it my insurance would cover it and therefore would have been stupid to keep quiet and hope they didnt notice , how could you not notice .

But the most baffling thing is , when we tried to think what could have happened i mentioned the football , she said my boys dont have footballs , i then pointed to the corner and asked whos black and white ball that was then ......IT WASNT THERE ANYMORE !

It has been there all day today , i visited 3 or 4 times to catch them in and it was there , my only regret was not taking a pic of it , she said the kids must have come in and got it back , but of course her or her husband had not noticed it .....Fishy !

I left it with her and said i could see why they looked to me as there seems to be no other logical explanation for it , apart from the vanishing ball of course !

She did not cancel , but she didnt offer to pay for the clean either !!!!!

I dont think this is the end of the matter yet .

I do have a hot system but its been in my shed since march so it wasnt that !

Rich  

[Tom White]

If it was me, and I didn't do it, I'd just say, "Not me!"  I wouldn't fanny about, I wouldn't make a fuss, I'd just say, "It wasn't me!"

If they'd wish to take it further, that option would theirs, but if it wasn't me, it wasn't me.  End of.

I wouldn't even discuss possible options with them, I'd just keep on repeating, "It wasn't me, and it was fine when I left!  I know naaaathin' and I accept responsibility for naaathin' 'cos it wasn't me!"

They should have building's insurance.

[P @ F]

Right thats cleared that up then Tosh , it wasnt you either , so who was it ?

Rich 

[red star]

i had mine crack a few years ago it was next doors bast---d cat jumped on it from 1st floor cill

[andyM]

I wonder if the ball has a part to play in all this?
Do you reckon someone (kids) might of tried to retrieve the ball either by ladder or with a pole or something and slipped and damaged the roof?
This sounds like something kids would do and you would be the perfect scapegoat.

[tacky]

as andy m said .ball stuck in gutter kids threw something or tried to knock it down with brush or sumat

[keyser soze]

sounds to me it was more likely to have been kids . the ball in the garden does look fishy . saying all that the custy seems adamant it was you so be prepared for her to take it further.on the other hand would it be to much of a problem to go through your ins it wouldnt cost a fortune and you get to keep the contract....

[scud]

  I do not believe you could break a glass roof panel with a wfp brush even if you tried, the only way would be to tap an exposed edge of the glass.

  To shatter a pain like that it would need to be a sharp edge hitting the surface with a fair bit of force, I'd bet you could take a swing with your pole and brush and it would just bounce off, you would even be hard pushed to break it with a lump hammer.

  It takes a very small point of impact to create enough pressure to break glass and there is no way you could generate enough force with your pole and brush, I would even be tempted to demonstrate on another of the roof panels.

[dazmond]

if it wasnt you who shattered the glass then its simply not your problem!!i would want to get paid too!why not?you ve done the work,you deserve to get paid!!

i would simply say "im sorry love it wasnt anything to do with me and you owe me xxxx amount for the clean.i would like to think my customers trust me and would think that i would own up if i had broke it.

if it wasnt you there is nothing she can do about it.if she starts being funny with you then the trust between her and you has been broken.in that case after explaining yourself dump and move on.

i wouldnt worry about it.


best wishes


dazmond

[jay kingston]

Rich

Like everyone else don't admit liability
No witnesses,so they are p*ss* ng in the
Wind.Hope you get it sorted

Regards Jay

[AuRavelling79]

She heard a bang while you were working but didn't come out and she didn't come to the door when you rang to tell them you'd finished? And there was a football that disappeared?

Result: = You didn't do it and you want your money ...

[P @ F]

No way on earth im putting it on my ins , thats like telling them i did it ,

And Scud , i said the same thing to my other half , she said no cos with your luck lately there would be 2 broken panes !

Im just gonna ride the bus and see where it takes me , i reckon i will pull through , i cant help but think the ball had a massive part in this , who ever owned it could have done me a favour by moving it on the sly today , the wife said that the husband and her went out last night upon finding the broken pane to look on the floor for fallen debris , none was found but the ball must have been there then as it was still there until at least 2.30 today , one of them must have seen it , but now its gone , as i pointed out to her !

Rich

[Londoner]

This may be a long shot but is the area flown over by planes? My mate is a ground engineer at Heathrow and he has said several times you wouldn't believe the bits they find on the runways. Nuts and bolts are common. Even spanners.  They all have to be picked up and recorded. Just a thought. You want to look around inside. Also look at the roof and see if any tiles are missing. Its quite common to find large(ish) chunks of cement on conny roofs. I'm sure any experienced conny cleaner will vouch for that.

[bobby p]

id say the odds are it Was summat to do with you.  out of 365 days of the year the only day it broke was the day you were near it 

[P @ F]

Tell me that was humour bobby ?
Im dry , but there is a line !

Rich

[rosskesava]

id say the odds are it Was summat to do with you.  out of 365 days of the year the only day it broke was the day you were near it  

I was waiting at a set of traffic lights today and two cars going across the junction had a prang. The one day every 3 months I go that way, an accident happened. Therefore, I must have caused it or have had something to do with the accident happening.

The grounds of probability are not that the one day he's there, the window ends up broken so therefore......... The grounds of probability are that as he cleans windows 50 odd weeks a year without windows shattering, therefore.........

If Rich didn't break the glass, he didn't break it. He probably will never know if the lady knows how it got broke or if she's genuine in her thinking that he broke it.

If it had been me, the conversation would have ended at the phone call. That may sound a little harsh but what would going to have a look achieve? It would end up with me saying I didn't break it, and the lady saying I must have which would be the same as was said during the phone call.

Rich - as you didn't break the glass, your conscience is clear and that is all that matters. The lady will think what she wants irrespective of what you say. My advise is to phone her or go and see her and say just that and that as far as you're concerned, that's the end of your part in how the glass got broken because you didn't do it.

[deeege]

id say the odds are it Was summat to do with you.  out of 365 days of the year the only day it broke was the day you were near it 

This can't be a serious post..... But just incase it is.......

If he cleaned their windows once per year then that makes it a 365/1 chance. However I assume he cleans monthly so 365/12=30. Not such a coincidence it happened on the day he was cleaning there now is it bobby?

Personally I'd say you have spent far too much time on this mystery already. It wasn't you, move on and forget about it.

[davids3511]

id say the odds are it Was summat to do with you.  out of 365 days of the year the only day it broke was the day you were near it  

Yeah but he is probably there every month so 12/365 or a 1 in 30 chance which isn't beyond possibility.

[Tom White]

id say the odds are it Was summat to do with you.  out of 365 days of the year the only day it broke was the day you were near it  

I was waiting at a set of traffic lights today and two cars going across the junction had a prang. The one day every 3 months I go that way, an accident happened. Therefore, I must have caused it or have had something to do with the accident happening.

The grounds of probability are not that the one day he's there, the window ends up broken so therefore......... The grounds of probability are that as he cleans windows 50 odd weeks a year without windows shattering, therefore.........

If Rich didn't break the glass, he didn't break it. He probably will never know if the lady knows how it got broke or if she's genuine in her thinking that he broke it.

If it had been me, the conversation would have ended at the phone call. That may sound a little harsh but what would going to have a look achieve? It would end up with me saying I didn't break it, and the lady saying I must have which would be the same as was said during the phone call.

Rich - as you didn't break the glass, your conscience is clear and that is all that matters. The lady will think what she wants irrespective of what you say. My advise is to phone her or go and see her and say just that and that as far as you're concerned, that's the end of your part in how the glass got broken because you didn't do it.

What Wossy said.

My clear analytical thinking has obviously rubbed off on him.

You, Wossy, have a lot to be grateful to me for.

[rosskesava]

What Wossy said.

My clear analytical thinking has obviously rubbed off on him.

You, Wossy, have a lot to be grateful to me for.

Isn't it the other way round? 

[Tom White]

What Wossy said.

My clear analytical thinking has obviously rubbed off on him.

You, Wossy, have a lot to be grateful to me for.

Isn't it the other way round? 

Your thinking is still a little fuzzy. 

[bad trippy]

She was there, heard a bang whilst u were cleaning, and didnt go check it out?
Although she was in and heard you cleaning, she did not answer the door?
There was a ball there, now there aint?
No debri in the gutters?
Mate if you smashed this glass panel you would have known about it in a fraction of a second.
Now if you done it and decided to do a runner, why would you knock her door for the money after you had finished cleaning?
Presumably if she heard you smash her conny roof, she would also have heard you knock the door.
Shes trying to stich you up pal

[rosskesava]

Your thinking is still a little fuzzy.  

Nope. Clear as a bell.

Anyway, I was on this forum before you were.

Also, this is now going off topic and should be moderated as such. Windows_Chepstow would have already done that.  

Also also, what Trippy said above. Yup. Sounds like a stitch up.




Added later: Windows_Chepstow was Tosh's name in the early days of CIU when he was 100% trad and liked to wear womens clothing.

[Tom White]

However I assume he cleans monthly so 365/12=30.

Why did you divide 365 by 12?  When I went to skool there was more than 12 days in a month.

You mean 365/30=12

Sheesh.

 

[bobby p]

having slept on it , i agree with the other barroom lawyers in that it Could be a stone dropped by a crow, the football or tile

  at the end of the day if you never let your brush touch that glass or knocked a stone off a sill its not your problem.  id rather lose her as a customer ten times over than pay up.  but if your brush touched that glass the other day,id pay

[shina]

I had a custy that said she never thought I had cleaned the windows as they were on hols at the time. I left an envelope which she sais she never got. She paid me but the funny thing is I felt quilty like I hadnt cleaned em like I was pulling a fast one. I felt like that because she made me feel like that, but I did do the job. I feel like dumping the custy and its a really good job.

If I had a custy that said I broke the glass and I didnt I would not go back and do the job again. Simple as. I would let em know I didnt do it and that is it.

Can understand how difficult this situation is.

[boshravie]

If it was me, and I didn't do it, I'd just say, "Not me!"  I wouldn't fanny about, I wouldn't make a fuss, I'd just say, "It wasn't me!"

If they'd wish to take it further, that option would theirs, but if it wasn't me, it wasn't me.  End of.

I wouldn't even discuss possible options with them, I'd just keep on repeating, "It wasn't me, and it was fine when I left!  I know naaaathin' and I accept responsibility for naaathin' 'cos it wasn't me!"

They should have building's insurance.

 

[chris@c.m.s]

I'd imagine being directly above the door it would be that pane that would be subject to more stress and movement than the others, probably the kids slammed the door.  

[rosskesava]

If when the bloke left the job the glass was not broken then he did not break the glass.

Who ever broke it, or how ever it got broken doesn't matter. He didn't break it.

What is so complex to understand.

 

[shaun mclean]

its been done by the kids and they have done the mummies little angel act when asked if they know anything about the smashed glass , so mum cooks tea and has a glass or 2 of wine and thinks f**k it it has to be the window cleaner coz he is a cheating lying b**stard and my darling children would never tell fibs , tell her straight and also explain that you dont like being accused of stuff like this and find it hard to believe she could even think it could be you and inform her that she needs a new windy. thats what i would do 

[M & C Window Cleaning]

I had a customer whose daughter hung a coat hanger on an open window hinge to air some clothes. Someone pulled the window closed and forgot to remove the coat hanger ad it broke the hinge. The mother tried to pin it on on the guy that was working for me at the time saying he'd done it with his ladder which was absolutely ridiculous as the window was over an extension that you had to walk on to get to. The ladder wouldn't physically have been able to come anywhere near it. You could even see the imprint the coat hanger left in the hinge. But she wouldn't have it and threatened to take the matter further. I just told her that if we'd done it we would have paid up no question, as we were insured, but I wasn't paying for something we hadn't done. It did cost me the customer, but then I don't want customers like that n my round.
The same worker had previously caused damage to a brick archway some months before and had owned up to it even though the customer wasn't in at the time and he paid £125 out of his own pocket to have it repaired.

[Simon@ Clearview contractors]

It might be worth asking if any teenagers in the area are going about with air rifles...

[lee_dewing]

I'm sorry to hear that Rich.

I'm sure it wasn't you. (custie story sounds fishy)

She hasn't paid you, leave it a few weeks and send invoice for payment, they won't pay.

Then don't go back.

All you have to worry about then is it going to small claims court probably might end up paying something towards it then.

If your sure it wasn't you, so just write down as much as you can remember, date time started and finished, seeing football etc.

Good luck.
Ps. must be quite loud if roof pane shatters, you would have heard it wouldn't you?