[david@zap-clean]

I did a job today on a light blue nylon cut-pile - it was heavily stained with nicotine.

I cleaned with a strong Micro-splitter + citrus mix, then post treated with POG. 
The results were not brilliant.

Anyone have a better plan (and please don't say M-Power).


Before cleaning photo:

[*Hector*]

why can't we say M power or Bio clean? it works...

 Alternatively good old fashioned double clean sprayed on hot as you like agitated and hot extracted would work too..

 

[david@zap-clean]

why can't we say M power or Bio clean? it works...

 Alternatively good old fashioned double clean sprayed on hot as you like agitated and hot extracted would work too..

 

Heat wasn't really an option with this twist pile nylon carpet Hector.

[*Hector*]

why not?

[Hilton]

Its all very well but I want to know how you got nicotine on your nylons..........do you know someone known as Cozy ,he smokes a lot 

As for the carpet it will be a restoration clean in that condition so smash it with heat and solution, is it sticky?

[John Kelly]

Ultrapac or Champion, heat. It may be permanently discoloured although most clean up easily.

[peter maybury]

heat is a fundamental part of the cleaning process why would you not want to use it?
Any of the presprays- powerburst or whatever would eat through nicotine, are you sure that your assumption that it was nicotine is correct , with many years experience pre smoking ban cleaning licenced premises yes on the walls blinds ceilings curtains etc. Smoke rises.
Peter

[*Hector*]

Heat wasn't really an option with this twist pile nylon carpet Hector.

David.... please do not try to be patronising or condescending to me. You have been in this industry less than 5 minutes... I have been in it 26 years... Do not think that because I only use LM these days, that I do not know what I am on about.... It is precisely because of my experience and the fact that I DO know what I am on about, that I can clean LM only, and get good results.

You came on here and asked what could be used to get good results. I suggested something, You attempted to take the p1$$.  It makes Hectors jovial character just not want to help any more.

[david@zap-clean]

Thanks for all the feedback everyone - there's a fair bit of info to take in, and it looks like I've been corrected in I disagreeumption that twist pile can be damaged by (normal) heat.

Hector, you're wrong, I've been around longer than 5 minutes, it's at least 6 minutes now :-)
I'm not sure why you took my comments as a criticism of you, they weren't intended to be.

On the subject of heat: I've only been using it for 2 weeks - and can see the benefits straight away - so why is it that some people, on some forums, think that some cleaning 'Solutions' don't need heat?

[Shaun_Ashmore]

If you read some posts they say that they apply pre sprays very hot and only rinse with cold water, don't forget that it's all about opinion.

I prefer heat IMO it cleans better and faster and you need less product down first ie pre spray so rinsing is far easier/better.

Shaun

[John Kelly]

On the subject of heat: I've only been using it for 2 weeks - and can see the benefits straight away - so why is it that some people, on some forums, think that some cleaning 'Solutions' don't need heat?
[/quote]

Those that supplied machines with no heater.

[Deep Cleaning Solutions]

This is not a job to be fannying around with micro splitters. Ultra pac and/or powerburst with citra boost would of been my starting point, champion is also usefull on this type of job. This is a job to bring out the big guns! When you say you post treated with pog, does that mean you have left it in the carpet?

[Deep Cleaning Solutions]

I find that hot tap water in the tank with a hot pre-spray is good enough for most jobs but jobs like this or end of tenancy mingers need that extra heat and heat is a massive help on pub jobs, the hotter the better i find.

[david@zap-clean]

This is not a job to be fannying around with micro splitters. Ultra pac and/or powerburst with citra boost would of been my starting point, champion is also usefull on this type of job. This is a job to bring out the big guns! When you say you post treated with pog, does that mean you have left it in the carpet?

I flushed out the POG.

I've just left the customer a voice mail message offering to re-do it (with UP)...

[Deep Cleaning Solutions]

David. I don't know if you have used UP before but their are different dilution rates on the front. You may need to use it on the higher side ie the label says- Heavy soil and restoration: Dilute 50ml per litre of warm water.

[Simon Gerrard]

Hi David,
I'm struggling to see what you are concerned about. Apart from the light patch where presumably a piece of furniture has been, the colour of the carpet looks way too uniform for it to be just dirt. Far more likely the effects of light and soil that has undermined the colour, hence its uniform appearance. Also, nylon, or any synthetic fibre that is dirty and has been for any length of time will appear far dirtier than it actually is because the dirt has tainted the colour, which is permanent and I think that, rather than you having not cleaned it properly is the case here.

Simon

[peter maybury]

David
there are certain things with carpet cleaning that cannot be reversed no matter how much training and level of equipment.  The more that you have the more that can be reversed. If you are serious about what you doing then I would suggest an alternative course of training and going out with somebody that has some experience and uses a variety of equipment. Y
Peter

[Simon Gerrard]

I don't think this is a training issue, more one of experience. With experience comes the realisation that with the best will in the world you cannot get every carpet as clean as you would like. With experience you should know within the first few minutes of cleaning the carpet that it isn't cleaning very well, this is your moment to try something different, a stronger prespray, agitation or a different technique. Also the moment to show the customer that this may be the best you can achieve.
 Experience is one thing you simply cannot buy, it just comes with time. Good on David for offering to re-clean because he's not happy with the result, that's professionalism for you.

Simon

[david@zap-clean]

I don't think this is a training issue, more one of experience. With experience comes the realisation that with the best will in the world you cannot get every carpet as clean as you would like. With experience you should know within the first few minutes of cleaning the carpet that it isn't cleaning very well, this is your moment to try something different, a stronger prespray, agitation or a different technique. Also the moment to show the customer that this may be the best you can achieve.
 Experience is one thing you simply cannot buy, it just comes with time. Good on David for offering to re-clean because he's not happy with the result, that's professionalism for you.

Simon

Yes Simon that's exactly what I'm doing.
This board has been a great source of advice, opinions and guidance over the past 2 years.

[peter maybury]

only been using heat for 2 weeks and would not benefit from training??
Peter

[Jennifer w]

Sorry to be blunt guys, but why don't you just clean it the best you can.

If they don't like it tell them politely to buy a new carpet.

And suggest they don't smoke in the house when they've purchased one.

P.s. Peter, did you mean training to use hot water in a machine?

Regards

Jen

[Carpet Dawg]

That Jennifer is what separates the professional carpet cleaner and the general cleaning companies.

[Jennifer w]

Sorry?

Could you possibly comment without sounding so patronising?

We arnt a general cleaning company.

[Carpet Dawg]

Sorry?

Could you possibly comment without sounding so patronising?

We arnt a general cleaning company.

"And suggest they don't smoke in the house when they've purchased one." that sounds quite patronising to me.

You clean it even though you know its not going to come up well/dont qualify the customer of the results, expect to be paid then tell the customer to buy a new  one if they are not happy? The mind boggles.

[Deep Cleaning Solutions]

Jennifer must be on a wind up surely!

[Jennifer w]

It's common sense surely guys.....?

[Deep Cleaning Solutions]

Jennifer is proving everything right when it comes to my experience of Facilities Management companies.
That's why they all seem to sub-contact, in other words pass it on to the experts!. 

I'm surprised a FM company has knowledge of dealing with domestic customers!

[Jennifer w]

But is it not common sense to not waste time on customers that you can't profit from?

And for the record I have a wealth of knowledge in the domestic market, which is why we avoid it.

Surely the game here is to sell them a new one, or put them on to someone who can ,for a commission.

[david@zap-clean]

only been using heat for 2 weeks and would not benefit from training??
Peter

Peter, you'll have to explain, what are you saying?

[peter maybury]

david,
you seem a little confused in not understanding the benefits of heat in the first place. How did you identified this as a nylon twist? nylon twist are quite a rarity in the British marketplace. You need to invest in some training in order to gain some insight into the market place you are operating in. you cannot rely on this forum for all the information. The NCCA course will give you unbiased training that will be honest in advising on the best tools, equipment and chemicals for the job. Many of the experienced boys will no longer give out their hard learnt experience because of the cowboys and part timers that look for free advice on this forum.

Peter

[david@zap-clean]

david,
you seem a little confused in not understanding the benefits of heat in the first place. How did you identified this as a nylon twist? nylon twist are quite a rarity in the British marketplace. You need to invest in some training in order to gain some insight into the market place you are operating in. you cannot rely on this forum for all the information. The NCCA course will give you unbiased training that will be honest in advising on the best tools, equipment and chemicals for the job. Many of the experienced boys will no longer give out their hard learnt experience because of the cowboys and part timers that look for free advice on this forum.

Peter

Hah, thanks for that reply Peter  

I have to say you're right: from reading these forums (both of them) anyone could get confused about the benefits of using heat. There are plenty of 'opinions' saying heat is not necessary, and also that 'some' cleaning suppliers claiming it's not necessary if you use product 'X'.

Simon got it right - there's no short-cut to experience in this industry.  Until then, these forums are a useful resource for newcomers - but sometimes (as in this case) it raises different opinions, which ends up confusing the situation.

[Simon Gerrard]

The hint is in the name David, HOT water soil extraction

How did you go on with the re-clean?

Simon

[david@zap-clean]

The hint is in the name David, HOT water soil extraction

How did you go on with the re-clean?

Simon

Booked for Fri AM Simon... watch this space.

The magical wonder solution M-Power doesn't need heat, apparently!

[Simon Gerrard]

That's because it is complete rubbish, hot or cold 

[ian harper]

Guys

You need a detergent that will absorb the positive charge, as anything that's fire related will be positive. The hydrophobic head must be negative or neutral



Download This Guide, Click link then right click and "save as" for a copy on your own computer.

http://www.chelmsford.cleaning-carpet.co.uk/download/All%20you%20need%20to%20know%20about%20detergents.pdf

[John Kelly]

Thats an excellent link Ian. I would recommend everyone to read it even if it is long winded. It will give you a good understanding of how products work and why you need different chemistry for different soils.

[SteveAllan]

Why so anti M power? I use it on certain jobs and it performs well, granted i wouldnt have used it on this but i find for light to med soiling on wool its pretty good.

[david@zap-clean]

I'm just back from re-treating this carpet using Ultrapac @ 50:1, long dwell time, 230psi (hot) extraction.  This improved the staining, but did not completely clear it - it's about 50% improved.  I even went over the really bad bits with my stair-tool - which pulled out a LOT of carpet!

Anyway, a great learning experience

AND... This particular customer owns an aluminium shipping company, he saw me struggling a little loading on the first visit, so when he knew I was going to re-do the cleaning for free, he made me this fantastic, custom made alu ramp - RESULT!!!!

[Mike Gwilliam]

How come you have camping hook up plugs (or industrial Plugs) on the ends of your leads? 

[david@zap-clean]

How come you have camping hook up plugs (or industrial Plugs) on the ends of your leads? 

er, dunno, that's what they supplied.  They're reasonably water resistant, and if you damage the main leads they're easier to replace/fix than hard wired ones I suppose.

[Mike Gwilliam]

Probably an error on Cleansmarts part as the sockets are only available on industrial premises or happy camp sites. Perhaps they put them on to test the machine?

I wouldn't think it would be intended these be used as you would need a conversion socket and extra lead which is pointless.

[dan paton]

I don't think it would be an error. I've converted most of my stuff to these. Extension lead/s can have a small adaptor lead at the end which is no hassle or simply a 13 amp plug. I keep 4 extensions on the van of varied lengths 

[Mike Gwilliam]

My point is, this machine will plug in to custys sockets directly using 2 x 13 amp standard plugs in most cases without the use of extension leads.

Why on earth introduce industrial plugs and sockets in between the machine and the custys sockets......it makes no sense at all

Why not use normal extension leads if there is a long run?

[dan paton]

When I bought my challenger it had already been done. Good on commercial stuff as I can put on the lead length I roughly require. So I done 2 rotary's and porty's too.  As well as having four long leads of various length I have a few much shorter ones for using a porty at the front door of a domestic. The set up suits me 

[peter maybury]

It is not a "commercial connection " it is a water resistant connection and to be honest is a common sense thing where you have a water and electric environment. There is no need to have these connections at the other end of the lead as it should be away from where you are pouring and handling water.
Dave I was surprised to see in the photo that you have a NCCA sticker on your van especially with the confusion  that you have with the products and chemistry. I have not done the course myself but have studied the manual over a long period of rime and think that it is quite comprehensive, informative and broad enough to give anybody an understanding. I have never been or wanted to be a member of the ncca because basically it has no credibility they will give it to anybody who turns up for the course whether they have any understanding of the content or not.
If you were a builder or in another trade with no understanding  of what you are doing then you would be a cowboy.
I am sorry to be so blunt but there is so many in this industry, that think that it is all about flannelling the customer and charging as much as you can for as little as possible. I think the way to success is being professional and building a knowledge of what you are doing.
It has been said by others blind leading the blind.

Peter

[wayne zabel]

Peter with the greatest of respect and speaking as a relative newbie.I don't think carpet cleaning can be compared to building /other skilled trades ect.Basic cc isn't really rocket science and on most occasions good results can be achieved.

Dave is asking a legitimate question to enhance his knowledge.Going on training courses as you constantly go on about isn't going to give you the knowledge of cleaning carpets on all situations.I was never told how to clean a carpet full of nicotine or for that matter anysoiling on any course

Surely the cowboys are those that buy a machine for £300 on e bay and go out cleaning carpets without the most basic of training.

Shouldn't Dave be applauded for trying to gain information and also for re cleaning the carpet in question and not be branded a cowboy?

To quote you"success is being professional and building a knowledge of what you are doing"

I think that's exactly what Dave is doing

[Simon@arenaclean]

Those plugs on the Airflex are so you can add the remote system 'in line' if you wish, the other end obviously have standard plugs. The remote can also easily be removed if it's not needed. It's probably the best solution probably not many other plugs that could do the same job and if the remote was hard wired if for any reason it fails you'r stumped, this way it's easily unplugged.

[david@zap-clean]

Peter with the greatest of respect and speaking as a relative newbie.I don't think carpet cleaning can be compared to building /other skilled trades ect.Basic cc isn't really rocket science and on most occasions good results can be achieved.

Dave is asking a legitimate question to enhance his knowledge.Going on training courses as you constantly go on about isn't going to give you the knowledge of cleaning carpets on all situations.I was never told how to clean a carpet full of nicotine or for that matter anysoiling on any course

Surely the cowboys are those that buy a machine for £300 on e bay and go out cleaning carpets without the most basic of training.

Shouldn't Dave be applauded for trying to gain information and also for re cleaning the carpet in question and not be branded a cowboy?

To quote you"success is being professional and building a knowledge of what you are doing"

I think that's exactly what Dave is doing

Thank you Wayne.

The only dumb question is the one not asked. 

After two full time years in this industry, and after multiple training courses from a variety of organisations including the NCCA, IICRC, WoolSafe, CleanSmart and others, I still have questions, and seek the opinions of more experienced carpet cleaners than myself.

Also, after two years, I can now generally spot the BS, wind-ups and deliberate miss-information that is sometimes presented on these forums.

Senior NCCA membership requires a commitment to ongoing training.  Things change in every industry.  As professionals we should commit to keeping up with best practices.  Time served is not necessarily the Holy Grail of expert carpet cleaning.
 

[Simon Gerrard]

Peter,
I've got lots of respect for you, but I don't think slamming into Dave like that is fair, or indeed, called for given the amount of training he has done and the raw commitment he has shown to doing the job to the very best of his ability.
Take a deep breath, Peter, you were once a lot less experienced than you are today, what you should be doing is applauding people like Dave and encouraging him and others like him, for they are the next generation of professionals that will eventually replace us old timers.

Simon

[jon barnes]

How come you have camping hook up plugs (or industrial Plugs) on the ends of your leads? 

At a guess because 16a ceeforms have better water restistance than domestic 13a.Certainly something I would like to have if I kept an electrical machine outside or in the van

[*Hector*]

Peter,
I've got lots of respect for you, but I don't think slamming into Dave like that is fair, or indeed, called for given the amount of training he has done and the raw commitment he has shown to doing the job to the very best of his ability.
Take a deep breath, Peter, you were once a lot less experienced than you are today, what you should be doing is applauding people like Dave and encouraging him and others like him, for they are the next generation of professionals that will eventually replace us old timers.

Simon

starting to feel your age Simon??

 

[Steve Barnett (Carpet Care Plus)]

Peter,
I've got lots of respect for you, but I don't think slamming into Dave like that is fair, or indeed, called for given the amount of training he has done and the raw commitment he has shown to doing the job to the very best of his ability.
Take a deep breath, Peter, you were once a lot less experienced than you are today, what you should be doing is applauding people like Dave and encouraging him and others like him, for they are the next generation of professionals that will eventually replace us old timers.

Simon

"The next generation" ?
David's as old as you and me Simon, lol !

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Bloody hell!

He'll be ready for retirement then 

Shaun

[Jennifer w]

Peter, have you ever done any courses in basic people skills?

Regards

Jen w.

[Billy Russell]

Peter is the Victor Meldrew of the carpet cleaning world 

[Mike Gwilliam]

[david@zap-clean]

"The next generation" ?
David's as old as you and me Simon, lol !

Guilty 

I think Simon means 'And the next generation'...

That's one of the reasons why I usually follow-up my posts with the results, I hope it helps others finding similar situations in the future.

[Simon Gerrard]

I did mean 'and' the the next generation. I think David and others that come into this industry, do the training and commit themselves to doing the best job they can, despite their inexperience should be applauded, not berated for not having the one thing you cannot buy - experience.

Simon

[Billy Russell]

Must admit, that really is Petes Double 

[elliott cleaning]

Rarely do I find topics of great interest on this forum - but then that is my problem.
I don't think that Peter is being  particularly unfair in the comments he makes - realistic, yes.   Where I do think he has to make allowances - is that he has to appreciate that many on 'Cleanitup' are relatively new and inexperienced in this business .  Weren't we all at some point in time.?