Franchise or Not........

« **on:** July 17, 2009, 04:04:33 pm »

So like most people in the country the recssion has hit me too!

Was thinking of starting up my own cleaning business (like a lot of folk) Is it worth a go or is the market flooded with start ups?

I will buy my own equipment and build a client base that way...... or is it better to pay through the nose for a franchise? Don't like the idea of paying 10k to some company and 6 months down the line the client base I bought has dropped off.

Anyone bought franchise and experienced any problems?? $:-\$

« **Reply #1 on:** July 17, 2009, 04:14:41 pm »

I've heard some nightmare stories about franchises. Very few are worth the money,... although I have heard good things about one guy on here who not only sets you up, but spends 6 weeks or more going round canvassing with you, training you in and helping you build a good customer base. A franchise where you just receive an "area" is worthless IMO.

« **Reply #2 on:** July 17, 2009, 04:31:24 pm »

I would not spend my money on a franchise.
Doing it on your own will be harder but you keep your initial investment and all of further profits.
Are you planning to do the cleaning by yourself, or you and your partner, or take on staff?

« **Reply #3 on:** July 17, 2009, 05:00:33 pm »

Problem with a franchise is that there is no guarantee that it will work and the true fact is that there are probably more franchises that fail than succeed but you never get to hear of these because the franchise threatens the franchisee with legal action if he dares publish anything bad about the franchise and has in fact had forums closed down because of this.
As well as your 10k investment consider the royalty payments you would have to make to the franchisor plus some state in their agreement that you must buy your supplies from them - all reducing your profit margin.
If you have the 10k then as already said invest in some equipment and relevant training and set up yourself there is great info on sites like business link for marketing and sales and tax plus forums like this for any technical questions you may have.

Thanks Jason

« **Reply #4 on:** July 17, 2009, 05:19:49 pm »

By its nature this site is not really the place to seek advice on franchises, most on here are self employed and have done it there own way. They are exactly the opposite of the franchisee.

Good place for the negative side of the picture though and much of it is true (I don't disagree with their points above)...............but there are some success stories out there as well. My advice on buying a franchise would be to buy the market leader, it may cost you money in the short term but they have more riding on your success than the smaller outfit.

eg: If I was buying a pizza franchise I would buy Dominoes not some "proper pizza" version much bigger money but very low failure rates.

Bottom line there is no easy way to success the best franchise in the world will fail if you don't work it, so make sure you are buying a franchise for other reasons than it being easy, reasons like support, branding, marketing, training, very well developed systems, track record of success and if you cant get positive responses to direct enquiries from existing franchisees then stay away.

« **Reply #5 on:** July 17, 2009, 05:57:32 pm »

Bluez,

You maybe correct thst we are against the idea of a franchise buy in. However you are not considering all the facts.

With a frasnchise you pay them so much and possibly depending on who you go with, you may even have to keep paying a certain amount.

Areas especially in the cleaning business are devided up. So you cannot go into someone elses territory. :

Going for a top brand is not actually the best advice either. Being a top brand is just marketing and thats all.

Plus all they do is give you common sense advice and a small client base sometimes and a place to purchase the chemicals and equipment and ready made forms.

If you have a small amount of capital I would go it alone. As frieghtening as it may be it will be a magical journey even in the dirty world of cleaning.

To start with all you need are a few cleaning chemcals, some dusters and hay presto you are a cleaning contractor! Oh and a vacuum cleaner.

You start out on your own doing the work, cold call is the only way! Lots of it. Before you know it you will need to hire a cleaner or two.

Purchase some more equipment. Get yourself a few contracts and actual written contracts, terms and conditions and SAVE yourself money. A franchise No way! Be your own Boss. Go into anyones territory!

It all depends on what you want and where you want your business to go.

I started years ago, as a sole trader. I was tempted to go with a franchise but there are too many far to many things you are not allowed to do when you join. They are a rip off! And my personal opinion is that they are just giving you information that you can obtain if you looked hard enough.

Anyways, we are now a Ltd company Vat registered, and have many contracts and many staff. Yes it is hard work, very hard work and there will be times that you will think is it worth it!

You will think to yourself, after a few months if you can last that long I will go and get a job instead. But stick with it.

Now you have the climate that we are in, which is not great to startup in, but it could be as there are many companies including cleaning companies closing. Leaving the door open for someone else just like you.

Go it alone and keep your money in your bank, its money you earnt! Even if you didnt earn it.. its yours do not give it to a franchise as they will just treat you like another mug!

After all you will get more satisfaction on going it alone. No boss, No repayments, No territory rules. No meetings with them to see how you are performing. All the return, profit is YOURS!

I WISH YOU WELL IN YOUR NEW VENTURE!

Dave

« **Reply #6 on:** July 17, 2009, 06:05:37 pm »

Quote from: Pristine Clean on July 17, 2009, 05:57:32 pm

Bluez,

You maybe correct thst we are against the idea of a franchise buy in. However you are not considering all the facts.

With a frasnchise you pay them so much and possibly depending on who you go with, you may even have to keep paying a certain amount.

Areas especially in the cleaning business are devided up. So you cannot go into someone elses territory. :

Going for a top brand is not actually the best advice either. Being a top brand is just marketing and thats all.

Plus all they do is give you common sense advice and a small client base sometimes and a place to purchase the chemicals and equipment and ready made forms.

If you have a small amount of capital I would go it alone. As frieghtening as it may be it will be a magical journey even in the dirty world of cleaning.

To start with all you need are a few cleaning chemcals, some dusters and hay presto you are a cleaning contractor! Oh and a vacuum cleaner.

You start out on your own doing the work, cold call is the only way! Lots of it. Before you know it you will need to hire a cleaner or two.

Purchase some more equipment. Get yourself a few contracts and actual written contracts, terms and conditions and SAVE yourself money. A franchise No way! Be your own Boss. Go into anyones territory!

It all depends on what you want and where you want your business to go.

I started years ago, as a sole trader. I was tempted to go with a franchise but there are too many far to many things you are not allowed to do when you join. They are a rip off! And my personal opinion is that they are just giving you information that you can obtain if you looked hard enough.

Anyways, we are now a Ltd company Vat registered, and have many contracts and many staff. Yes it is hard work, very hard work and there will be times that you will think is it worth it!

You will think to yourself, after a few months if you can last that long I will go and get a job instead. But stick with it.

Now you have the climate that we are in, which is not great to startup in, but it could be as there are many companies including cleaning companies closing. Leaving the door open for someone else just like you.

Go it alone and keep your money in your bank, its money you earnt! Even if you didnt earn it.. its yours do not give it to a franchise as they will just treat you like another mug!

After all you will get more satisfaction on going it alone. No boss, No repayments, No territory rules. No meetings with them to see how you are performing. All the return, profit is YOURS!

I WISH YOU WELL IN YOUR NEW VENTURE!

Dave

Dave
I have not advocated purchasing a franchise and to accuse me of not addressing all the facts shows that either you didnt read my post or you misinterpreted it.

What fact or facts have I not considered in making my point?

« **Reply #7 on:** July 17, 2009, 06:12:27 pm »

Pristine said..
"Being a top brand is just marketing and thats all."

I would ask that you consider this statment outside of a franchising context and consider if it has any merit.

« **Reply #8 on:** July 17, 2009, 06:24:48 pm »

Bluez,

I only meant this part.

"By its nature this site is not really the place to seek advice on franchises, most on here are self employed and have done it there own way. They are exactly the opposite of the franchisee.
"
The rest is aimed at the fa66ster.

There are some on here that have a franchise or sell a franchise.

Also how do you know that many on here are not part of a franchise. Have many of us actually met each other. Obvious some have but not all.

No acusation was intended. My oppologises if it came accross wrong.

Dave

« **Reply #9 on:** July 17, 2009, 06:28:30 pm »

Quote from: bluez on July 17, 2009, 06:12:27 pm

Pristine said..
"Being a top brand is just marketing and thats all."

I would ask that you consider this statment outside of a franchising context and consider if it has any merit.

Yes it has merit!

Look I have a Jaguar. Thats a pretty top brand in the auto industry.

However what makes a Jaguar better than a standard Ford escort. Just because I have a 4.2 litre supercharged engine. A ford escort could be just as reliable. Take a look at Skoda many years ago people hated them. BMW remarketed it. Now people buy them like there is no tomorrow. See its marketing. Not neccesarily a better product. It may look better.

I have also seen Mercedeze - Benz 600 on the hard shoulder over heated! So not actually a better product. And thats Branding.

On the cleaning side, People are now being led to believe if you are a carpet cleaner and you do not have a TM (Truck mount) then you cant do a great job, Have a TM and you will do a better job.

So are we to now say that portables that can cost just as much as a TM are less superior.

I would actually like to see it proven that a carpet is less full of dirt by a sufficient amount to actually warrant a TM instead of a portable.

I know a TM may get the water hotter But it has been now proven that heat actually makes the dirt harder to retrieve in some cases. That is now why when washing.. your clothes we are being asked to use 15 degree instead of 30 - 40 and 50 degrees. Its all marketing.

This is my Merit!

Dave

« **Reply #10 on:** July 17, 2009, 07:15:34 pm »

Quote from: Pristine Clean on July 17, 2009, 06:24:48 pm

Bluez,

I only meant this part.

"By its nature this site is not really the place to seek advice on franchises, most on here are self employed and have done it there own way. They are exactly the opposite of the franchisee.
"
The rest is aimed at the fa66ster.

There are some on here that have a franchise or sell a franchise.

Also how do you know that many on here are not part of a franchise. Have many of us actually met each other. Obvious some have but not all.

No acusation was intended. My oppologises if it came accross wrong.

Dave

ok so

« **Reply #11 on:** July 17, 2009, 07:39:51 pm »

Quote from: Pristine Clean on July 17, 2009, 06:28:30 pm

Quote from: bluez on July 17, 2009, 06:12:27 pm
Pristine said..
"Being a top brand is just marketing and thats all."

I would ask that you consider this statment outside of a franchising context and consider if it has any merit.

Yes it has merit!

Look I have a Jaguar. Thats a pretty top brand in the auto industry.

However what makes a Jaguar better than a standard Ford escort. Just because I have a 4.2 litre supercharged engine. A ford escort could be just as reliable. Take a look at Skoda many years ago people hated them. BMW remarketed it. Now people buy them like there is no tomorrow. See its marketing. Not neccesarily a better product. It may look better.

I have also seen Mercedeze - Benz 600 on the hard shoulder over heated! So not actually a better product. And thats Branding.

On the cleaning side, People are now being led to believe if you are a carpet cleaner and you do not have a TM (Truck mount) then you cant do a great job, Have a TM and you will do a better job.

So are we to now say that portables that can cost just as much as a TM are less superior.

I would actually like to see it proven that a carpet is less full of dirt by a sufficient amount to actually warrant a TM instead of a portable.

I know a TM may get the water hotter But it has been now proven that heat actually makes the dirt harder to retrieve in some cases. That is now why when washing.. your clothes we are being asked to use 15 degree instead of 30 - 40 and 50 degrees. Its all marketing.

This is my Merit!

Dave

I would conceed that you will be able to come up with some examples to support your point that being a top brand is only about marketing but I only have to come up with one to disprove your point.

Do you not feel customer service, product, price, reliability, safety, reputation etc have anything to do with branding because a lot of companies could save megabucks if you are right?

The examples of cars that you have used is pretty good but you would have to be able to show why people spent extra on a vw instead of a toyota and I am fairly sure that very few will claim that the quality of the adds were the deciding factor.

Most will talk of stlye, shape, reliability, resale value etc some of which I would agree are products of good marketing but some are also real peoples experience of using these brands and finding that they have been satisfactory or even superior to their rivals.

Marketing is a big part of it but all the money thrown at advertising will only get you so far if the product is crap.imo

« **Reply #12 on:** July 17, 2009, 07:42:52 pm »

This thread would support my point I think

http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=77907.0

Sorry for hijacking this thread

« **Reply #13 on:** July 17, 2009, 08:18:09 pm »

Bluez,

You are right!

What WFP system do you own?

Is it Ionics? Or another top brand!

However, you have now missed the point. We were were not talking about customer service, support, backing...at the original start of the post.

We have WFP systems.. not top brand at all! But I know I couldnt ask for a better service and backing. Plus it saved my company lots of money.

I was commenting that you said this is the wrong place to get advice on a franchise and I think in my opinion its the best place.

Dave

« **Reply #14 on:** July 17, 2009, 08:18:28 pm »

Paying £10k I take it domestic one? At the end of the day all you are doing is branding their name!

Commercial a deferent kettle of fish! I know of some only in the last few months, who have lost over £250k and some their homes.

I was a good franchisee (employee/slave thank god I’m no longer one understand you now have to have a tracker in the van) also customer/client knows how to pull your string.

Oh got a TM very efficient machine far superior to my portable Ninja

Len

« **Reply #15 on:** July 17, 2009, 08:28:32 pm »

Quote from: Len Gribble on July 17, 2009, 08:18:28 pm

Paying £10k I take it domestic one? At the end of the day all you are doing is branding their name!

Commercial a deferent kettle of fish! I know of some only in the last few months, who have lost over £250k and some their homes.

I was a good franchisee (employee/slave thank god I’m no longer one understand you now have to have a tracker in the van) also customer/client knows how to pull your string.

Oh got a TM very efficient machine far superior to my portable Ninja

Len

Len,

We have worked and owned and have TM. Yes I agree it has more power, makes a bigger noise. It certainly something to show the customer or new prospect.

But if you clean a 2 exact carpets. One with a Ninja and one with a TM could the customer tell the differece.

Can science - lab testing actually prove the carpet cleaned by the TM was actually cleaner.

Ps your website on this forum point to http://www.123-reg.co.uk

Not angsfc.co.uk
Dave

« **Reply #16 on:** July 17, 2009, 08:49:18 pm »

If i was going into the world of Franchising, the last thing in the world that i'd pick is cleaning. Look at the people who buy the franchises; they couldnt care if it was cleaning houses or flying to the moon, the point is that they want to be a franchisee of some sort, regardless of their industry background.

The very fact that you are even considering starting your own CLEANING business vs. a franchise would suggest that you have some knowledge and 'love' of the cleaning sector, unlike the types i've met who franchised cleaning for franchising's sake.

Word of mouth and reliable staff (ha!) are the key to a domestic cleaning business. You'll have to really weigh-up whether a franchise is worth the stress.

And -whilst customers should be plentiful- you may find that they won't be prepared to pay the price you HAVE to charge to make it 'work'. Especially if VAT is added on, but there's been another thread about that recently.

« **Reply #17 on:** July 17, 2009, 09:23:36 pm »

I feel I am very well qualified to answer this question being an ex Franchisee. The franchise I was involved with had over 1000 franchise pass through their net-work in 20 years (I found this out after being with them for about a year) They are full of promises in the begining but once they have your money, the franchise I was with could not care less. I saw so many franchisees fail and loose everything me included. The only ones to make money is them, I was once told by them it is a win win situation for them. My advice to anyone thinking of a franchise is DONT DO IT.

« **Reply #18 on:** July 17, 2009, 09:46:08 pm »

"However, you have now missed the point. We were were not talking about customer service, support, backing...at the original start of the post."

You were the one who said "being a top brand is just marketing" that is the issue that I have raised from your post, what is the make up of a top brand, you say it is marketing and I say it is much more than just marketing, such as the above items, so I fail to see how that is in any way missing the point, and when you decide to try to thrash my point by saying my advice was wrong you narked me. My advice was very carefully worded to be sensitive to the points allready made and to offer a slightly alternative position without questioning anyone elses experience.

"Going for a top brand is not actually the best advice either. Being a top brand is just marketing and thats all."

This is the bit of your post that got me into the discussion with you, I was only offering a different view to the others until you said that my advice was wrong. My advice is for the person who posed the question and he or she can choose wheather to use it or not. I added my opinion because up to that point all opinions offered were negative and I did not feel they were a complete reflection on the whole franchising way of business and that an alternative view might be useful to the poster.

I have ionics systems, sure clean delivery systems, a couple of home mades and a sure clean static system, I have a mixture of poles LEWI modular, ionics, unger and brodex and have just put together a couple of Harris's. I am not sure of the relevence to the discussion.

I dont normally get into these forward and backword discussions and I am happy to let you have the last word, I have read many of your posts and have found them to be helpful and informative so this is not any personal issue with you.

By the way I think vacmans post is pretty good advice.

« **Reply #19 on:** July 17, 2009, 09:56:30 pm »

why thanks

« **Reply #20 on:** July 17, 2009, 10:03:18 pm »

Vacman

I was sold owner/manager with a large investment.

Dave

Can’t see web site posted on my profile I don’t even own a domain name

No two exact carpets are the same, side-by-side working yes one is more efficient with a little more humph also probably no from looking at it! But to the touch even more with my new tool

What’s a Hydrory tool

Len

« **Reply #21 on:** July 17, 2009, 10:06:14 pm »

Quote from: Len Gribble on July 17, 2009, 10:03:18 pm

Vacman

I was sold owner/manager with a large investment.

Len, i was refering to domestic cleaning set-ups, where the franchisee does all the running about but none of the work. I didnt mean sole-owner franchise type-thing like a carpet cleaner or a driving instructor, where you do the actual work yourself. As i understood it, you are a carpet cleaner? As i say, i wasnt meaning your line of work.

« **Reply #22 on:** July 17, 2009, 11:10:36 pm »

Vacman

It wasn’t carpet cleaning it was the commercial cleaning side. (I didnt mean sole-owner franchise) one of the same you own nothing!

Len

« **Reply #23 on:** July 18, 2009, 09:41:51 am »

hi there,

this is a hot potato isnt it ?

there is a similar thread in relation to buying contracts or not, that i have just replied to.

the eseence of this thread is the same,

it does however appear that there is a proliferation of people looking to start cleaning companies, which is very similar to the increase in number of taxis around, as people are looking form extra income, however the number of potantial clients is falling as less people are using them at present, therfore reducing the revenue per taxi.

this is potentially what may happen in the cleaning industry.

it does however remain that, this industry is not an easy route to instant cash flow, it is hard work, does require knowledge, and determination, and whilst i will provide advice to anyone that asks, people coming into the industry, irrespective of sector, domestic or commercial, should do so with their eyes wide open.

so good luck to all, but ensure that you have your objectives, clearly defined, as this will then aid you in your decision as to whether to buy a franchise, or to do all the work yourself.

regards

martin

« **Reply #24 on:** July 18, 2009, 03:02:15 pm »

Quote from: Len Gribble on July 17, 2009, 10:03:18 pm

Vacman

I was sold owner/manager with a large investment.

Dave

Can’t see web site posted on my profile I don’t even own a domain name

No two exact carpets are the same, side-by-side working yes one is more efficient with a little more humph also probably no from looking at it! But to the touch even more with my new tool

What’s a Hydrory tool

Len

Len I have attached a pic, there is a globe on the side under your picture, not in your profile. Look where the messages are.

Dave

« **Reply #25 on:** July 18, 2009, 08:20:25 pm »

Dave

Thanks I click on it goes to 123 cant see www.angsfc.co.uk I can now must delete it wife now owns it

What’s a Hydrory tool got the cfr is it better

Len

« **Reply #26 on:** July 18, 2009, 08:40:04 pm »

Hi,

As an ex franchisee of a cleaning & restoration franchise I would strongly advise against it.

The business model of a lot of these franchises are very suspect.

Its NOT running your own business, you are a robot for these people. They know they have you buy the balls, and take on work you'll never make a profit on, but the are not bothered they are only interested in fees.

My franchisor made sure you didn't bother complaining , not happy about something? well leave, upset someone? thats OK we'll take work off you.

The franchisor used to say know your competition, its was more know the franchisor he was the greatest threat to your business, they had me over big time, lost over 100k.

In the past 18 months the business model has gone south, but they are still selling franchises, I met a couple who bought in only 12 months ago, they were promised the earth, now they are talking to me about loosing their home if they pull out!

A fool and his money are soon parted, don't believe the hype or the promises, they are all hot air.

Regards

CATMAN

« **Reply #27 on:** July 18, 2009, 09:21:11 pm »

I have heard this time and time again, I watched so many good people loose everything with the Fanchise I was with. The Franchisor is in a win win situation, they are the only ones to make money.

« **Reply #28 on:** July 18, 2009, 09:54:58 pm »

Think the banks more or less state owned have a part to play in this game RBS and there subs more than some.

Yes I feel strongly regarding people parting with money when the banks know

Len

« **Reply #29 on:** July 18, 2009, 10:12:31 pm »

Hmmm yes it is a bit of a hornets nest....i will readily admit that i have never been involved in a franchise, but i know people and know of people who have.

One such person was a driving instructor for a well-known franchise. Fresh out of driving instructor school, he went to the franchise in question and -for a large-ish fee- was set up with car, clients, the works. He himself (the franchisee) was the one doing the work, so in that sense he was as good as any self-employed tradesperson. He often bleated about how much it cost him to be involved with the franchise, but as i pointed out (several) times, he'd have SOME of those costs himself anyway, and TBH the franchiser was coming up with an endless string of clients.

If nothing else, it provided a good springboard to starting his own business (which he has now done).

On the other side, there is a big domestic cleaning franchise in the areas where I work and I have worked for many of their ex-clients. Reasons for not going back to them ranged from the price, to the quality of work, to the fact that they kept sending different cleaners. The people running the franchise live in a well-to-do location and don’t appear to do anything at all on the cleaning side of their business.

I also recall well the trouble I had with Dynarod who are a franchise owned by British Gas. I was paying BG for a homecare policy and when i needed them to fix my loo, they sent someone from my local Dynarod franchise. I wont go into the ins and outs of how appalling Dynarod were, but a search on the net whilst i was suffering at their hands revealed that people are going into the Dynarod franchises with promises of no end of BG homecare work, none of which was materializing.

The comments i have read here echo those of a lady I used to clean for. She herself had a very successful restaurant to her name, and knew a lot of people involved in franchises. She said she could never understand how the bulk of them can ‘work’.

« **Reply #30 on:** July 25, 2009, 11:45:38 am »

I bought a franchise a year ago for £10,000 it was a new franchise and offered the entire county as my territory. I had no business experience so that is why I chose a franchise, a big mistake. I have built up my domestic cleaning business and it is doing well. All the franchisor offered was forms, which you can get anywhere. Membership of the British Institute of Cleaning which is worthless marketing advice which consisted of advising me to put notices in shop windows and go to business networks, just common sense. The system involved setting up a vitual office and address, paying payroll and an HR firm
which would cost me about £300 a month. I cancelled tha virtual office and did not use the payroll or the HR firm. I also have to pay 10% of my gross earnings to him which is about 25% or more of my net so it is not worth the hard work of expanding the business. I am selling the business and starting on my own it is much easier, my franchise offered nothing but a large slice of my hard earned profits. They are a rip off. Don't make my mistake.

« **Reply #31 on:** July 25, 2009, 08:45:04 pm »

Got a database of very happy franchisees, £50pounds per name.

Len

« **Reply #32 on:** August 04, 2009, 08:52:39 pm »

Learnt today another one bit the dust so that make 10 this a year also understand they are now doing zero obligation.

Len