[amayze]

Perhaps one answer, would be to look at other sectors, such as Gassafe, which took over from Corgi. Everyone knew that a gas engineer, should be corgi registered. If you didn't ask the question, then more fool you.

Part of the problem is that has an industry we don't have a truly registered trade association. A body that promotes the industry in a positiive light, aims to reduce poor practice and raises public awareness, for all suppliers, providers and customers.

[formb]

Perhaps one answer, would be to look at other sectors, such as Gassafe, which took over from Corgi. Everyone knew that a gas engineer, should be corgi registered. If you didn't ask the question, then more fool you.

Part of the problem is that has an industry we don't have a truly registered trade association. A body that promotes the industry in a positiive light, aims to reduce poor practice and raises public awareness, for all suppliers, providers and customers.

Thats not really the issue for me. Generally if someone is unhappy with their windows they just won't pay. Corgi & Gassafe is more for safety Someone could fit your boiler leave and then months later you find out he ballsed it up when you wake up dead.

[StanA]

Oh please dont start, you'll have that scottish bloke banging on about licensing in england again, which is exactly what we DONT want.

Guess what I'm a Scottish bloke, we are licensed and it works. Not long ago a convicted sex offender was arrested for cleaning windows without a license. It works if you have nothing to hide it will benefit you.

The bit I've highlighted is not really the issue though is it?  He was a convicted sex offender whatever way he chose to earn his money.  Also, there is no way of knowing if he was the type of sex offender with a diseased mind who would be likely to be a repeat offender or if he was someone who say got drunk at a party an inappropriately toughed someone.  Still very wrong of course but the latter example is not generally likely to be a repeat offender.
Either way, I don't believe it makes a case for licensing.
The more power you give those power crazed town hall  bosses, the more they will abuse it IMO.

[formb]

Oh please dont start, you'll have that scottish bloke banging on about licensing in england again, which is exactly what we DONT want.

Guess what I'm a Scottish bloke, we are licensed and it works. Not long ago a convicted sex offender was arrested for cleaning windows without a license. It works if you have nothing to hide it will benefit you.

The bit I've highlighted is not really the issue though is it?  He was a convicted sex offender whatever way he chose to earn his money.  Also, there is no way of knowing if he was the type of sex offender with a diseased mind who would be likely to be a repeat offender or if he was someone who say got drunk at a party an inappropriately toughed someone.  Still very wrong of course but the latter example is not generally likely to be a repeat offender.
Either way, I don't believe it makes a case for licensing.
The more power you give those power crazed town hall  bosses, the more they will abuse it IMO.

You missed my point.

The problem was not that he was a sex offender the problem was he had no license. There are police checks in place for window cleaners here, it is entirely down to their discretion whether he could get a license or not if he had applied for one.

I do not know if he was a peado, rapist or just a w****r the point is if he had a license then his customers can be safe in the knowledge that he had been deemed safe to be in and around peoples houses by a member of the local constabulary.

Surely that makes sense?

[Ian Mason]

I agree with you 100% Matt with your post on the other thread regarding a national licence, as opposed to local council run thing.

I think it would deter many a cowboy dole cheat, if they had to show say a record of trading, or face a hefty fine.

I think it would be beneficial to all who trade legit, whatever their method of working.

[michael papworth]

Oh please dont start, you'll have that scottish bloke banging on about licensing in england again, which is exactly what we DONT want.

Guess what I'm a Scottish bloke, we are licensed and it works. Not long ago a convicted sex offender was arrested for cleaning windows without a license. It works if you have nothing to hide it will benefit you.

The bit I've highlighted is not really the issue though is it?  He was a convicted sex offender whatever way he chose to earn his money.  Also, there is no way of knowing if he was the type of sex offender with a diseased mind who would be likely to be a repeat offender or if he was someone who say got drunk at a party an inappropriately toughed someone.  Still very wrong of course but the latter example is not generally likely to be a repeat offender.
Either way, I don't believe it makes a case for licensing.
The more power you give those power crazed town hall  bosses, the more they will abuse it IMO.

You missed my point.

The problem was not that he was a sex offender the problem was he had no license. There are police checks in place for window cleaners here, it is entirely down to their discretion whether he could get a license or not if he had applied for one.

I do not know if he was a peado, rapist or just a w****r the point is if he had a license then his customers can be safe in the knowledge that he had been deemed safe to be in and around peoples houses by a member of the local constabulary.

Surely that makes sense?

And you approve of something that is entirely down to police discretion? How can you be so naive?

And do you really believe that if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear?

No. Anything administered by unaccountable jobsworths is going to cause trouble. It's in the nature of policemen, council officials (and primary headteachers) to make utterly stupid decisions based on their own wrong-headed interpretation of regulations.

Don't believe me?

* Police using terrorism legislation on pensioners. Police wanting to ban the Bulldog Bash on the chief constable's whim.

* Councils using RIPA powers to chase pushy parents. Prosecuting a couple for having noisy sex.

(* Headteachers banning conkers, home-made cakes and sports days.)

Licences will just be another layer of power given to another bunch of council idiots to drive up the public sector wage bill to no good effect.

[StanA]

Oh please dont start, you'll have that scottish bloke banging on about licensing in england again, which is exactly what we DONT want.

Guess what I'm a Scottish bloke, we are licensed and it works. Not long ago a convicted sex offender was arrested for cleaning windows without a license. It works if you have nothing to hide it will benefit you.

The bit I've highlighted is not really the issue though is it?  He was a convicted sex offender whatever way he chose to earn his money.  Also, there is no way of knowing if he was the type of sex offender with a diseased mind who would be likely to be a repeat offender or if he was someone who say got drunk at a party an inappropriately toughed someone.  Still very wrong of course but the latter example is not generally likely to be a repeat offender.
Either way, I don't believe it makes a case for licensing.
The more power you give those power crazed town hall  bosses, the more they will abuse it IMO.

You missed my point.

The problem was not that he was a sex offender the problem was he had no license. There are police checks in place for window cleaners here, it is entirely down to their discretion whether he could get a license or not if he had applied for one.

I do not know if he was a peado, rapist or just a w****r the point is if he had a license then his customers can be safe in the knowledge that he had been deemed safe to be in and around peoples houses by a member of the local constabulary.

Surely that makes sense?

It does make sense but I still believe that licensing across the board is overkill.  Living on the borders of three counties, I am very unwilling to pay three license fees.  If I am deemed a fit person to clean windows in one county then I am fit to clean them in another.  Just consider whether every door to door salesperson needs a license.  Or every canvasser (for ANY trade).  Or the guy who delivers fish from door to door.  Or all the milkmen (there are still some left).
IMO the only reason window cleaners have been singled out is because many dodgy characters pretend to be window cleaners when they are up to no good.  Sometimes they pretend to be water company officials but they tend to be employees anyway so don't incur any cost.  There are other reasons I'm anti but I'm not going into all that right now.

[StanA]

Oh please dont start, you'll have that scottish bloke banging on about licensing in england again, which is exactly what we DONT want.

Guess what I'm a Scottish bloke, we are licensed and it works. Not long ago a convicted sex offender was arrested for cleaning windows without a license. It works if you have nothing to hide it will benefit you.

The bit I've highlighted is not really the issue though is it?  He was a convicted sex offender whatever way he chose to earn his money.  Also, there is no way of knowing if he was the type of sex offender with a diseased mind who would be likely to be a repeat offender or if he was someone who say got drunk at a party an inappropriately toughed someone.  Still very wrong of course but the latter example is not generally likely to be a repeat offender.
Either way, I don't believe it makes a case for licensing.
The more power you give those power crazed town hall  bosses, the more they will abuse it IMO.

You missed my point.

The problem was not that he was a sex offender the problem was he had no license. There are police checks in place for window cleaners here, it is entirely down to their discretion whether he could get a license or not if he had applied for one.

I do not know if he was a peado, rapist or just a w****r the point is if he had a license then his customers can be safe in the knowledge that he had been deemed safe to be in and around peoples houses by a member of the local constabulary.

Surely that makes sense?

And you approve of something that is entirely down to police discretion? How can you be so naive?

And do you really believe that if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear?

No. Anything administered by unaccountable jobsworths is going to cause trouble. It's in the nature of policemen, council officials (and primary headteachers) to make utterly stupid decisions based on their own wrong-headed interpretation of regulations.

Don't believe me?

* Police using terrorism legislation on pensioners. Police wanting to ban the Bulldog Bash on the chief constable's whim.

* Councils using RIPA powers to chase pushy parents. Prosecuting a couple for having noisy sex.

(* Headteachers banning conkers, home-made cakes and sports days.)

Licences will just be another layer of power given to another bunch of council idiots to drive up the public sector wage bill to no good effect.

I could add to what Wally has written but he says it better than I 

[williamx]

I do not think that a licencing scheme will work, the way that the dog licence was dropped by the goverment this week.

The main reason is that the people who the licence is targeted at will not give a damm and that then makes the licence useless.

BUT if you insist on a licence then make one which has some power to it, for example.

There is only one licence that covers the whole of the UK.

The licence fee should be set at the rate it costs to regulate it, it should not be used to generate cash as a tax.

There should be a minimum charge that all uk window cleaners should charge, this I would reccomend at £8 to £10.

All cleaners must have Insurance.

All cleaners must undertake a heath and safety awareness course.

All ladder uses must hold a seperate licence which is renewed every 5 years, the same way that cleaners who use cherry pickers must be Ipac licenced.

All ladders must undergo a mot every year.

All wfp water tanks must be secured in the back of their vans, they also must be baffled.

Landline telephone numbers must be used on all stationary and vechicles.

You licence must be displayed so anyone can see that it is current.

Your licence can be suspended or cancelled if you bully either you customers or other cleaners who move onto "Your Patch".

These are just a few thing that I would like to see, there are properly many others rules that other cleaners have in mind as well.


 

[formb]

Oh please dont start, you'll have that scottish bloke banging on about licensing in england again, which is exactly what we DONT want.

Guess what I'm a Scottish bloke, we are licensed and it works. Not long ago a convicted sex offender was arrested for cleaning windows without a license. It works if you have nothing to hide it will benefit you.

The bit I've highlighted is not really the issue though is it?  He was a convicted sex offender whatever way he chose to earn his money.  Also, there is no way of knowing if he was the type of sex offender with a diseased mind who would be likely to be a repeat offender or if he was someone who say got drunk at a party an inappropriately toughed someone.  Still very wrong of course but the latter example is not generally likely to be a repeat offender.
Either way, I don't believe it makes a case for licensing.
The more power you give those power crazed town hall  bosses, the more they will abuse it IMO.

You missed my point.

The problem was not that he was a sex offender the problem was he had no license. There are police checks in place for window cleaners here, it is entirely down to their discretion whether he could get a license or not if he had applied for one.

I do not know if he was a peado, rapist or just a w****r the point is if he had a license then his customers can be safe in the knowledge that he had been deemed safe to be in and around peoples houses by a member of the local constabulary.

Surely that makes sense?

It does make sense but I still believe that licensing across the board is overkill.  Living on the borders of three counties, I am very unwilling to pay three license fees.  If I am deemed a fit person to clean windows in one county then I am fit to clean them in another.  Just consider whether every door to door salesperson needs a license.  Or every canvasser (for ANY trade).  Or the guy who delivers fish from door to door.  Or all the milkmen (there are still some left).
IMO the only reason window cleaners have been singled out is because many dodgy characters pretend to be window cleaners when they are up to no good.  Sometimes they pretend to be water company officials but they tend to be employees anyway so don't incur any cost.  There are other reasons I'm anti but I'm not going into all that right now.

Everything you mention there is a minority. I am no angel and have a police record. I also employ a few lads who have been in trouble in the past. The police see it as a good thing that they are working and help us where they can.

I admit it is not perfect and is open to abuse from the police.

[formb]

Oh please dont start, you'll have that scottish bloke banging on about licensing in england again, which is exactly what we DONT want.

Guess what I'm a Scottish bloke, we are licensed and it works. Not long ago a convicted sex offender was arrested for cleaning windows without a license. It works if you have nothing to hide it will benefit you.

The bit I've highlighted is not really the issue though is it?  He was a convicted sex offender whatever way he chose to earn his money.  Also, there is no way of knowing if he was the type of sex offender with a diseased mind who would be likely to be a repeat offender or if he was someone who say got drunk at a party an inappropriately toughed someone.  Still very wrong of course but the latter example is not generally likely to be a repeat offender.
Either way, I don't believe it makes a case for licensing.
The more power you give those power crazed town hall  bosses, the more they will abuse it IMO.

You missed my point.

The problem was not that he was a sex offender the problem was he had no license. There are police checks in place for window cleaners here, it is entirely down to their discretion whether he could get a license or not if he had applied for one.

I do not know if he was a peado, rapist or just a w****r the point is if he had a license then his customers can be safe in the knowledge that he had been deemed safe to be in and around peoples houses by a member of the local constabulary.

Surely that makes sense?

It does make sense but I still believe that licensing across the board is overkill.  Living on the borders of three counties, I am very unwilling to pay three license fees.  If I am deemed a fit person to clean windows in one county then I am fit to clean them in another.  Just consider whether every door to door salesperson needs a license.  Or every canvasser (for ANY trade).  Or the guy who delivers fish from door to door.  Or all the milkmen (there are still some left).
IMO the only reason window cleaners have been singled out is because many dodgy characters pretend to be window cleaners when they are up to no good.  Sometimes they pretend to be water company officials but they tend to be employees anyway so don't incur any cost.  There are other reasons I'm anti but I'm not going into all that right now.

I work in 2 counties on 1 license without any problem

[daz1977]

good points hydro

like hydros says, it wont stop the ones it is meant to,  if they every bring in a licence, they will probably only enforce it on big commercial jobs, in the public sector,  as i dont think mr chip shop owner will care less if you was licensed or not, as long as you where

[formb]

And you approve of something that is entirely down to police discretion? How can you be so naive?

And do you really believe that if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear?

No. Anything administered by unaccountable jobsworths is going to cause trouble. It's in the nature of policemen, council officials (and primary headteachers) to make utterly stupid decisions based on their own wrong-headed interpretation of regulations.

Don't believe me?

* Police using terrorism legislation on pensioners. Police wanting to ban the Bulldog Bash on the chief constable's whim.

* Councils using RIPA powers to chase pushy parents. Prosecuting a couple for having noisy sex.

(* Headteachers banning conkers, home-made cakes and sports days.)

Licences will just be another layer of power given to another bunch of council idiots to drive up the public sector wage bill to no good effect.

Naive?

I have been licensed for 10 years. There are many subjects which I may well be naive about.

This is not one of them

[formb]

I do not think that a licencing scheme will work, the way that the dog licence was dropped by the goverment this week.

The main reason is that the people who the licence is targeted at will not give a damm and that then makes the licence useless.

BUT if you insist on a licence then make one which has some power to it, for example.

There is only one licence that covers the whole of the UK.

The licence fee should be set at the rate it costs to regulate it, it should not be used to generate cash as a tax.

There should be a minimum charge that all uk window cleaners should charge, this I would reccomend at £8 to £10.

All cleaners must have Insurance.

All cleaners must undertake a heath and safety awareness course.

All ladder uses must hold a seperate licence which is renewed every 5 years, the same way that cleaners who use cherry pickers must be Ipac licenced.

All ladders must undergo a mot every year.

All wfp water tanks must be secured in the back of their vans, they also must be baffled.

Landline telephone numbers must be used on all stationary and vechicles.

You licence must be displayed so anyone can see that it is current.

Your licence can be suspended or cancelled if you bully either you customers or other cleaners who move onto "Your Patch".

These are just a few thing that I would like to see, there are properly many others rules that other cleaners have in mind as well.

I agree with most of your points.

We have used licenses to our advantage though.

I have seen it enforced, first hand.

[martinsadie]

theres nothing wrong with how things are now,i cant believe how upset people get about dole cheats just report them ,a lot of people dont agree with the patch system but we dont have a problem with dole cheats

[rg1]

Why should we be licensed and have to pay a yearly subscription when the root of the problem is with guys cheating the dole system?

They are the ones that need monitoring..not us!

[windowswashed]

There's a benefit cheat hotline for dole w/c's. It doesn't stop them earning fAgs and booze money so where's the point in us paying extra hidden charges being regulated as it won't give us any new advantages in practice over dole cheats.

[Sapphire Window Cleaning]

I do not think that a licencing scheme will work, the way that the dog licence was dropped by the goverment this week.

The main reason is that the people who the licence is targeted at will not give a damm and that then makes the licence useless.

BUT if you insist on a licence then make one which has some power to it, for example.

There is only one licence that covers the whole of the UK.

The licence fee should be set at the rate it costs to regulate it, it should not be used to generate cash as a tax.

There should be a minimum charge that all uk window cleaners should charge, this I would reccomend at £8 to £10.

All cleaners must have Insurance.

All cleaners must undertake a heath and safety awareness course.

All ladder uses must hold a seperate licence which is renewed every 5 years, the same way that cleaners who use cherry pickers must be Ipac licenced.

All ladders must undergo a mot every year.

All wfp water tanks must be secured in the back of their vans, they also must be baffled.

Landline telephone numbers must be used on all stationary and vechicles.

You licence must be displayed so anyone can see that it is current.

Your licence can be suspended or cancelled if you bully either you customers or other cleaners who move onto "Your Patch".

These are just a few thing that I would like to see, there are properly many others rules that other cleaners have in mind as well.


 

Great response, giving ideas on how we can approch this matter is very helpful.




Matt

[Steve_c]

Funny thing Matt we had a very long chat with Craig about this yesterday, i for one would welcome regulation and a strict licensing scheme. It can only benefit the genuine trader. Your looking not so ugly today Matt..lol

[formb]

Funny thing Matt we had a very long chat with Craig about this yesterday, i for one would welcome regulation and a strict licensing scheme. It can only benefit the genuine trader. Your looking not so ugly today Matt..lol

Here in Scotland it is not very strict. I have been asked to produce my license only once in over 10 years but, if you see someone operating without one you can grass the f***er up and he will get arrested.