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islwyn

  • Posts: 9
Re: new cleaners
« Reply #40 on: February 25, 2010, 09:30:25 pm »
Ladder garder,

I agree with what your saying 100%. I was having a dig at the fools who brag about how much they earn. There are so many on here its frightening and it is those buffoons who are killing the trade. Then they wonder why they are losing customers?

Window cleaner hey? nod, nod, wink, wink, cash is king ye?  how many times have you heard that or something similair. Word spreads, posting details on here about glorified incomes helps who?


Ian Mason

Re: new cleaners
« Reply #41 on: February 25, 2010, 09:48:16 pm »
Ladder garder,

I agree with what your saying 100%. I was having a dig at the fools who brag about how much they earn. There are so many on here its frightening and it is those buffoons who are killing the trade. Then they wonder why they are losing customers?

Window cleaner hey? nod, nod, wink, wink, cash is king ye?  how many times have you heard that or something similair. Word spreads, posting details on here about glorified incomes helps who?



islwyn, I will try & explain this again!

If you do a clean for a customer that is unemployed, in a crap job, or has family or friends in this situation, & you charge say for example £10.00 for 15 minutes work, then don`t you think that you could be killing your own trade?

Like I said in my previous post, it`s an attractive proposition.

I guess some people get a bit too greedy at times. ::)

Jason(C.C.W.C.)

  • Posts: 36
Re: new cleaners
« Reply #42 on: February 25, 2010, 09:54:04 pm »
Hi i'm starting on monday and was panicking a bit coz round here the prices are as low as 2.50.How can they survive on that.Gonna stick to my pricing all the way.Also customers are saying ooh the last cleaner only charged xxx and havnt seen him in months.mmm wonder why??

Ian Mason

Re: new cleaners
« Reply #43 on: February 25, 2010, 09:56:18 pm »
This thread is a wind up ye?

Anybody can join this forum, from guys on the dole to tax inspectors.

If members keep falling for the old "how much do you make per day?" posts and add to them posts you are effectively taking food out of your own childrens mouths, as word spreads, and as you are finding out, business will be lost to the newbies.

What other trade can you enter with no experience, small start up costs, and half a brain?

Exactly!

Go check out other trade forums, sparkies, plumbers, chippies etc.  You never read posts of them bragging how much they earn do you? Well done guys, give yourself a pat on the back.



Oh, I forgot to say welcome to the forum, & have you been here before ??? ;D ;D

islwyn

  • Posts: 9
Re: new cleaners
« Reply #44 on: February 25, 2010, 10:06:41 pm »
I rest my case, nothing at all against newbies, but any w/c who have mentioned price and are now reading this must feel regret. The two guys who posted after my last post haven't even started a round yet. Ian75 is even adding grinning faces asking me if ive been on here before?

Somebody please start a vote about whoever mentions earnings on this website should be kneecapped?

Or, who thinks this forum is killing our trade?

Please all you clean it up gods, go get a hobby, or look behind you at your wife or girlfriend who is now staring into space dreaming of what you should be doing to her right now instead of reading this?
I know i'm getting a few backs up here, but you know i'm right.



Ian Mason

Re: new cleaners
« Reply #45 on: February 25, 2010, 10:26:39 pm »
I rest my case, nothing at all against newbies, but any w/c who have mentioned price and are now reading this must feel regret. The two guys who posted after my last post haven't even started a round yet. Ian75 is even adding grinning faces asking me if ive been on here before?

Somebody please start a vote about whoever mentions earnings on this website should be kneecapped?

Or, who thinks this forum is killing our trade?

Please all you clean it up gods, go get a hobby, or look behind you at your wife or girlfriend who is now staring into space dreaming of what you should be doing to her right now instead of reading this?
I know i'm getting a few backs up here, but you know i'm right.




This is a wind up, who are you really? Whats your real username. ;)

geefree

  • Posts: 6180
Re: new cleaners
« Reply #46 on: February 25, 2010, 10:33:43 pm »
wonder who this is lol  ;D ;D ;D ::)

agree with the post regardies newbies up there commenting on prices, and undercutting...

when  they have not even got a round yet lol... ::)

but hey, who are we to judge , we are experienced and knowledgable , been where they are now....bright and breezy, and welcome them all. ;D ;D

geefree

  • Posts: 6180
Re: new cleaners
« Reply #47 on: February 25, 2010, 10:41:16 pm »
Bang on.... i was wondering where he was coming from... could not work out if he was an old hand, or just one of those guys who knows everything about everything.... now...er

where did i put the moon i nearly landed on  ;D ;D ;D

Ian Mason

Re: new cleaners
« Reply #48 on: February 25, 2010, 10:57:36 pm »
Ian75n,

I will answer that question after you have explained why earlier in this topic you stated you are about to start a cleaning round, yet you are a senior member with over 125 posts?

I take it you are single? if not, give me your address and i would be more than happy to come round and alleviate your wifes boredom. ;)

I knew it, it is a wind up, so what name do you want to be called lol ;D ;D

In all seriousness, I think you will find pretty much all of my posts are questions & the odd bit of messing. But regarding this newbie undercutting business, have a read back through this thread, & take in what was actually written.

geefree

  • Posts: 6180
Re: new cleaners
« Reply #49 on: February 25, 2010, 10:58:59 pm »



Quote

islwyn, I will try & explain this again!

If you do a clean for a customer that is unemployed, in a crap job, or has family or friends in this situation, & you charge say for example £10.00 for 15 minutes work, then don`t you think that you could be killing your own trade?

Like I said in my previous post, it`s an attractive proposition.

I guess some people get a bit too greedy at times. ::)
Quote

What a load of rubbish,  Im not one for posting comments on other peoples topics on the forum, unless its a joke , or trying to be helped, or trying to help someone else...

but this comment is utter rubbish,

When the window cleaning industry is being flooded with people trying their hand at it because they think its easy, or easy pickings... then people on here who have worked hard to get rid of the stigma attached to window cleaning,...and move away from the penny brigade...well, they have a right to feel aggrieved when some bright eyed , would be business man... comes on here and says they will undercut, because they feel sorry for poor people , err friends....who have to pay for there windows cleaning!!!!

Im sorry but if you asked your friend to clean all your windows with a rag, ..and if he could find a ladder..

do you think he would do it for a quid??

of course not...

do you feel sorry for them when a plumber charges the correct price?

Anyway, you get out there and build yourself a round on compassion, ...i wont be buying your round bud.


islwyn

  • Posts: 9
Re: new cleaners
« Reply #50 on: February 25, 2010, 11:04:29 pm »
Today is 25.02.2010   Check new arrivals on the forum the day after ian 126 posts leaves this site. guaranteed he'll rejoin the next day under a different name.

I feel ive had a very productive evening, if you havent sussed it out yet you never will.

For those in the now, keep gob schtuum, BIG BROTHER is watching!

Got to get some shut eye now coz got a 3 hour day tomorrow, another grand in the bank, hard life innit?xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

What's he on about i knew it was a wind up? i serious pal, if you cant see the link between posting issues about money on here and losing customers you must be brain dead. Go on tell me there isnt a link, and how come you got so many posts with no round?

Ian Mason

Re: new cleaners
« Reply #51 on: February 25, 2010, 11:15:16 pm »
Today is 25.02.2010   Check new arrivals on the forum the day after ian 126 posts leaves this site. guaranteed he'll rejoin the next day under a different name.

I feel ive had a very productive evening, if you havent sussed it out yet you never will.

For those in the now, keep gob schtuum, BIG BROTHER is watching!

Got to get some shut eye now coz got a 3 hour day tomorrow, another grand in the bank, hard life innit?xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

What's he on about i knew it was a wind up? i serious pal, if you cant see the link between posting issues about money on here and losing customers you must be brain dead. Go on tell me there isnt a link, and how come you got so many posts with no round?

Night Gazza ;D ;D

Re: new cleaners
« Reply #52 on: February 26, 2010, 06:47:42 am »
I think a few of them posts about peoples wifes are out of line, joking or not.

I agree with the post about customers see what we charge has more of the blame for the industry being viewed as easy money that posts on here has.

When I first started, one of the reasons I though about it was because I had a window cleaner before, and thought I could improve the service, and the money seemed very good.

I have improved the service, but I now realise that the money is more reasonable that I had previously thought, before entering the industry.

Secondly I think islwyn has been on as someone else before, but he does have a fair point. If you look at the laws on price fixing, we shouldn't be discussing prices at all with each other, or telling newbies to raise there prices, as inevitably it could be the window cleaner up the street that we are trading posts with.

islwyn

  • Posts: 9
Re: new cleaners
« Reply #53 on: February 26, 2010, 07:40:42 am »
Ladder garder, we are singing from the same hymn sheet here. Just read a few of your posts and you seem to post on a lot of the undercutting topics so it is obviously a subject you have strong views on. That said why on posts 43 and 155 do you bring money into it?

You also make a fantastic point about taxi drivers, or if you prefer we could call them last decades w/c's, a lot of them made good money, word spread and now most of their day is spent waiting on a rank for £3 fares.

A friend of mine recently joined facebook and recieved lots of friend requests from people who blank him in the streets, discussed this with a few people and it appears a lot of people regard it as a status thing, the more friends you have the better, makes them feel important.

How many posts do i have to make on here to become a god, will i be more popular if each post mentions earnings, i notice all the stars you can achieve, does it make you impotent?, sorry spelt important wrong there.

Re: new cleaners
« Reply #54 on: February 26, 2010, 12:05:23 pm »
islwyn,

the first one was because the guy said he wanted 300 new customers, and had posts as far back as three years prior, so I got the impression that his prices must be low if he thinks he needs that many customers.

The other one wasn't so much about prices it was about a guy wanting to shed of 200 of his custies at 5x the price but could do the other 600 on his no probs, so I was just hinting that his prices must be quite low also.

However I have in the past took part in pricing poles, I even started one at one point, but it was more too see how much the prices on here really do vary, i.e. highlight how much bragging goes on.

I suppose that does make me a bit of a hypocrite for saying that we shouldn't, when I have in the past. However it is an opinion that I have formed over time and by experience, and admittedly not advice that I have always followed in the past. However I do intend to in the future.

For every pricing pole that I have read on here  or taken part in, I have never went away feeling that I had been enlightened in any way what so ever. The prices quoted vary so much and I think it is because of a number of factors...

1. WFP cost more to run than trad
2. Speed of a window cleaner plays a large factor on what they have to charge - for instance some may get in every corner and some might be the terry burrows of this world and doing them while jogging past, drinking coffee.
3. Level of service also plays a part, for instance trad that does frames and sills, or trad that doesnt will have a different pricing structure
4. Then what about a team full of young lads on £3 an hour, or the experienced windies.
5. What equipement they carry or invest in, and not just water fed pole, the range of equipement they maintain and where they buy it from and at what cost is important for instance the expensive wc soaps, tescos white label fairy liquid.
6. Area also plays a part, Window cleaners in my town will have a smaller average that the inner city of london for instance.
7. THe type of jobs you do, if you do all large com biuldings, with cradles and absailers you will have a very different pricing structure to someone biulding up a small dommestic round.

So does pricing poles even help all those newbie window cleaners wanting to know what they should charge, no I dont really think so. It is always easy to charge what your compeditors charge and be led by the industry, or you can do your homework, and work out what it is going to cost you to offer your service and base your prices on that. If you just take it on what people say on here, you could end up making a loss, because you have charge to little, or not getting enough work because you have charged to much. So you should always try to have a better grasp of your own figures and business model as someone elses can be very different.

Oh sorry...
8. People just bragging, in an attempt to raise the customers willing to spend price, but inevitably causing allot to flock to the industry clueless to the reality of it.

I really like the 'turn over for vanity, profits for sanity' comment, it does say allot about people who talk about what they make in a day.

Also yes, I do like to use taxi drivers as a comparison to our industry, however different it may be. The window cleaning industry could go the exact same way, over run, with allot of people desperate to make a living working for too little.

However I would not say that is the industries fault, it is just the kind of times we are in. If you have a family to feed, do you take the £60 from the dole or what ever it is, or do you get up early go out and spend 12 hours a day 6 days a week sitting in a car, to put more food on the plate.

I would, and I have a great amount of respect for the hundred and thousands that do it every day. I think a big problem is the licensing system, and the fact that is is illegal for a company to fix prices, like the construction industry thing that was in the news not that long ago. But what about the taxi industry, the local councils set the tariffs and the hours they work, that is fix pricing as well, and look what has happened.

i think the real info that people are after is who makes the most(profit) and how do they do it. Is there someone they are missing out on, some magic technique that someone had trying and is laughing there way to the bank.

Lets face it, its not what people charge that many are intrested in, its how much more or less they are than you. Do I make more or could I get away with charging more. Forget about costs of running the business, how much can I make - I heard you can make a fortune window cleaning.

You heard wrong, if you charge too much your customers will soon send you packing, if you charge too little you wont make profits, and as more come we will all end up sitting in our van next to the taxi drivers.

At the end of the day we are all in it for money. If there is people flocking to the industry, its because there is not better alternative, but the ship can only hold so many before it sinks!

I read a book once about luxury, and the guy said something that rung very true to me, Its not the nice threads or the good leather, the logo or anything else, its having something that nobody else has, and have something that they want. Its status.

If you value yourself, and see that if you dont charge the decent price you will be better of in a shop, working behind a counter. Its safer, you will be dry and responability free.

Or you learn the true value of your time, and the ship will float.


Ian Mason

Re: new cleaners
« Reply #55 on: February 27, 2010, 12:02:01 pm »



Quote

islwyn, I will try & explain this again!

If you do a clean for a customer that is unemployed, in a crap job, or has family or friends in this situation, & you charge say for example £10.00 for 15 minutes work, then don`t you think that you could be killing your own trade?

Like I said in my previous post, it`s an attractive proposition.

I guess some people get a bit too greedy at times. ::)
Quote

What a load of rubbish,  Im not one for posting comments on other peoples topics on the forum, unless its a joke , or trying to be helped, or trying to help someone else...

but this comment is utter rubbish,

When the window cleaning industry is being flooded with people trying their hand at it because they think its easy, or easy pickings... then people on here who have worked hard to get rid of the stigma attached to window cleaning,...and move away from the penny brigade...well, they have a right to feel aggrieved when some bright eyed , would be business man... comes on here and says they will undercut, because they feel sorry for poor people , err friends....who have to pay for there windows cleaning!!!!

Im sorry but if you asked your friend to clean all your windows with a rag, ..and if he could find a ladder..

do you think he would do it for a quid??

of course not...

do you feel sorry for them when a plumber charges the correct price?

Anyway, you get out there and build yourself a round on compassion, ...i wont be buying your round bud.



Hi,

Apologies about dragging this back up to the top, but I feel it is important to make a couple of things absolutely clear, as I feel my comments have been totally misinterpreted!

Basically, I have absolutely no intention of undercutting anyone else, & have decided to enter the trade because of reasons similar to a great deal of you.

I hope you don`t mind me quoting you Ladder Garder, but I think you word things a little better than I do, & it is easier to understand,

When I first started, one of the reasons I though about it was because I had a window cleaner before, and thought I could improve the service, and the money seemed very good.

I have improved the service, but I now realise that the money is more reasonable that I had previously thought, before entering the industry


Many thanks,

Ian.