[Colin Day]

I received my sample today of the said carpet.... I would have probably thought it was sisal to be honest

[GlynE]

Thank you Richard. Insurance is public liability & tools/equipment (AKA Tradesman insurance policy).  we were never offered "treatment risks"

[Neil Williams]

One carpet started to shrink after about an hour & another carpet as soon as we started to use pre spray.

I've been following this thread through but had to go back to page 1 to clarify what i thought started all this.
How wet did you make these carpets? particulary the one you only pre sprayed and it shrunk.

[markpowell]

sea grass etc suspicious then why risk wet cleaning?
Mark

[GlynE]

The presprayed one was only a very light prespray - but the owner said she had them cleaned before with no problems. We have learnt our lesson the hard way & won't be going anywheere near these type of carpets again (Wjat ever the custy says), not even with the envirodri

[fitz2kleen]

Hi there
Spoke to a Mike Turner from Crucial Trading,while the press office are insistent there are guides on how to fit and treat these carpets i for one couldnt find it,and on further probing was told there isnt any by mike.
The carpets in question if fitted correctly should have been double fitted [ underlay fixed to floor then backing fixed to the underlay ] and a over hang [[ folded under ]] around the edges for acclimatising then a second refit a few weeks later, so if this carpet had been cleaned b4 it is possible that shrinkage had occured and the previous contractor had just pulled the over hang out and refitted jobs a good en.
You come along and unlucky 4 u there is no overhang to pull out.
Mr previous walks away a happy chappy and ur left carrying the baby only a possibility mind.
I am assured that Crucial Tradings products will withstand light pre spray and bonneting without shrinkage in fact they have there own spotting products.
A comment made was that once the sisal has shrunk it wouldnt shrink again [[ horse bolts n closes gate ]].
because they are only a distribution centre any feedback from them is going to be minimal.
GlynE i suppose there is light at the end of the tunnel if you can push the fact that the carpet wasnt fitted to underlay, hence u could argue the point it was incorrectly fitted in first instance,
Also as you are the unfortunate one that it shrunk on its questionable whether the previous contractor actually HWE.
Dunno where you go from here other than to ask your insurance about treatment risk for the future [[ they wont offer it you , you do have to ask and maybe shop around ]]
I would argue the issue regarding how the carpet was fitted but come to some agreement over the cost of replacement and put it down to experience.
the carpet to trade is far less than £68 per m2 find that out b4 engaging in talks with your client
I am visiting CT monday,if for no other reason but to familiarize myself with this product.
Anything you guys and gals wish to know regarding the product and would like bringing up feel free to leave a post or email
Regards Marc

[Joe H]

Been following this one and I do feel for you.  Was in a problem with a client a couple years ago and the support from the guys on here was tremendous, as now.

Re treatment risk.
I for one, thought insurance for carpet cleaning, or any other sort of cleaning I suppose, would include insurance for the piece you working on. It doesnt.
I found this out after I went on the NCCA course and then wanted to join the NCCA. You have to show proof you have treatment risk insurance. I enquired with my broker and found I did not have treatment risk. Shock!
My then insurance company did not offer treatment risk either, so I changed insurers and joined the NCCA (who says there is no benefit of joining the NCCA - benefitted me then).
I have just changed insurers again, and one of the first criteria I set for them was that it MUST include treatment risk and I need it in print. No problem.
As to cost.
By the fact I had to change insurers to get to join NCCA, my premium dropped with the new insurer. And this year changing again has seen a further drop in cost.  Worth shopping around but make sure you looking at like for like.

[Hilton]

It certainly looks as though there may be a problem with insurance paying out (because of suitability of carpet for HWE) & as carpet is less than 2 yrs old & cost around £68 per sq metre, it looks as though we may have a hefty bill to try & somehow pay ourselves. As you say you have to put it down to experience & learn from it...
[/quote

Its NOT £68.00  sq mt

Get your own estimates done asap.

[Paul Redden Countryfresh]

OK, do or die......Power stretch!  Power stretch!  Power stretch!  :    what have you got to lose? ServiceMaster should have one.

I use a broker Mc Gregor Lloyd Ltd       Liability/treatment Risks/Tools & Equipment
Ins Co is NIG    0121 706 0616

Remind me not to stay at that Guest house!

Paul

[Hilton]

I wouldn't bother it wont work. the client will be p**sed off and it will cost you more in money,time and worry, how you respond to this is how you will be judged, especially if the client is well connected.

The carpet looks like Wool Flax , you may have an argument that fitters did not understand the procedure to fit it but then again their argument will be that it was ok until you came along, so it will be a tough one, you will lose.

See first if you are insured, seems you may not be if above is correct, then get estimates done for replacement.

She knows she is in a win win situation if you don't pay her contents insurance will and then they will go after you for re-imbursement.

[graeme marchbank]

I suppose it's a CC's worst nightmare

Last year I removed and dried some wool Berber carpet (jute back) from an un-insured landlords flat. When I returned to re-fit the carpet with a carpet fitter he said it had shrunk and he could not re-fit. I would like to point out that this carpet was badly fitted to start with. I then rolled up the carpets, when putting them in the lift got  help from a guy. Turns out he was a carpet fitter, and after chatting to him about it, he agreed to re-fit it using a power stretcher. The end result was a: perfectly fitted carpet, happy tenant, happy carpet fitter, happy carpet cleaner, happy landlord and a happy letting agent.

I know it's not  the same type of carpet but , it's must be worth a try....

Good luck Graeme

[GlynE]

Thank you everyone. We are doing our upmost to try & get things resolved satisfactorily & without us being burdened with a heavy bill. It is good to know that there is so much help, advice & support out there...Many thanks Glyn

[Tony Gill Carpet Smart]

It's GOT to be worth a try with a POWER STRECHER you have nothing to loose

Cheers Tony

[richy27]

About a year ago I came across a carpet like this in my mother inlaws dining room lots of spots stains etc and she was replacing it the next week and before she did i had ago at cleaning it shrunk where it was badly fitted by the the doors. only did it as an experiment it did relax back over a few days but as many have said its not very easy to stretch. it only shrunk by around 3 cm though.

Nightmare and really hope you get a good resolve i would start digging your heels in a bit though and try to sort out replacing but only current value according to pre existing condition if your insurance wont cover you also would look into getting some better cover.

[GlynE]

Have received a number of catalogues (& price list) today from Crucial trading - absolutely excellent. Full page photos of each carpet.
I totally agree about value according to "pre-existing condition". It appears they are about 4 yrs old.
 We are going to sell one of our carpet machines & wondered what (just approximately) you thought we might be able to ask for it. It is a Ninja & was only completely serviced & over-hauled by Ashby's last year at a cost of over £1200 & we have only used it once since then as we purchased a Scorpion & CFR Eco, so it is in very good condition. Would be grateful for any thoughts. thank you everyone

[Hilton]

Dont go by CT price list though, its way over the top, your will be paying Kensington prices, at risk of repeating my self get other quotes if its a wool flax it will be around £20- 25 retail- £15.00 £22.00 trade.

[james roffey]

OK, do or die......Power stretch!  Power stretch!  Power stretch!  :    what have you got to lose? ServiceMaster should have one.

I use a broker Mc Gregor Lloyd Ltd       Liability/treatment Risks/Tools & Equipment
Ins Co is NIG    0121 706 0616

Remind me not to stay at that Guest house!

Paul

Me too im with Mc Gregor Llyoyd found them via the NCCA the NCCA insist that you have treatment risk as a requirement of membership
 i did not really understand the significance of that until this thread started 

[jasonl]

Here is what I would do

1, Write to the customer and tell them you will be in touch within 7 days when you have taken advice.

2, Find a fitter with a can do attitude and powerstretcher, get him to stretch it back, while not admitting any liability, just say it is out of goodwill.

3, Ask the manufacturer for cleaning recommendations,and fitting procedures.

then..
a, If they say HWE ,or the carpet is fitted differently to manufacturers guidelines, write to customer, saying that you followed manufacturer guidelines, thankyou goodbye.  or..

b,If they say do not HWE , get 2 quotes, then offer customer the lowest amount, LESS 40% (4years usage they have had out of 10 years life expectancy) LESS your cleaning cost LESS £500 deposit payable when you can collect the old shrunken carpet.


If the customer disputes or will not allow this , which is reasonable and following YOUR  procedures. Then let them take you to small claims ,, which will take them months, and cost you little more.

[Colin Day]

I've just measured my carpet sample... Measures 84mm X 84mm then I wet it and it's now 80mm X 80mm.....

[GlynE]

Thank you Jason - will definitely take on board all you have said & it may come in very useful, if insurance decline. Thank you agin everyone