[andykirk]

Hmm - it goes against my better judgement, but I feel I had better clarify the bullet points of my website as it seems to have caused quite a stir (over 500 hits on the site so far and counting).....here goes....

We Don't Use:

    * Water Fed Pole Systems - Well, frankly I don't!
    * Gallons Of Water Erm - once again - I don't
    * Harmful Chemical Processes and yet again...I don't do this either

We Do Use:

    * Ladders and Traditional Tools This i do!
    * Just Enough WaterYep - no more than is necessary...
    * Small Amounts of Eco-Friendly Detergent It's non-toxic and Bio-Degradeable!

Unsure as to why anyone would take offence or question this? I do not deride the value of WFP systems - just in my opinion they do not perform the task to the high standards I set for cleaning a window.

The 2005 working at height regulations do not ban the use of ladders - although they do strongly suggest that they should not be used in situations where the work can be carried out to the same standard from the ground - which in my opinion it cannot - and that is just my opinion, but as the owner of my business I am entitled to that opinion.

Having worked previously building masts and rigging wireless commercial radio equipment to them I believe I should be reasonably well qualified to assess the pros and cons of working with a ladder and the associated risks, surely. I have worked at heights far exceding those I now work at for many many years and have not once had a fall or injury related to ladder use, mainly because I maintain a healthy respect for working at height at all times and ensure I have done all I can to protect myself, rather than just doing the minimum to comply with standards.

All jobs are subject to a thorough risk assesment and ladder access/placement assessment before I even quote.
All my ladders are of the Class 1 variety and are fitted with stabilisers and ladderstops etc. are used where appropriate.
I carry full insurance from a leading provider - and I mean full insurance, not the cheap and nasty variety that just about makes you legal - that covers both me, the public and the property at which I am working.

If any of the WFP guys have taken offence all I can say is sorry, but none is intended. I am merely positioning myself in the market place as a provider of a service that uses traditional methods rather than the new methods. This is purely a personal/business decision and is not an attack on how you run your business or how you go about your job. In fact I believe there is room in the market for both methods and both have different sets of values and USPs to bring to the job - after that it is down to the customer to decide how they would like their service delivered.

And, far from being a "luddite" I embrace and welcome new technologies - I maintain a professional web-presence with the facilities for customers to pay online (and yes - I know the photos are from i-stock and still have the watermarks on them - but until I get round to finding images I would like to purchase that is how they will have to stay so I can remain "legal") and I am in the process of developing an open-source CRM/ERP system for the window cleaning industry which, once finished, I will be more than happy to share with others. Hardly the attitude of one against progress....

Anyway - oratory over. Hope I have clarified a few points and also glad to see the art of healthy debate is not dead, and that I also belong to a profession that cares enough to not let it die ;-)

Cheers
Andy

[Niall McAllister]

hi Andy, welcome to the forum, bet you didn't realize you were this important to the window cleaning world.
 

it will work wonders for your google listing

[macmac]

Hmm - it goes against my better judgement, but I feel I had better clarify the bullet points of my website as it seems to have caused quite a stir (over 500 hits on the site so far and counting).....here goes....

We Don't Use:

    * Water Fed Pole Systems - Well, frankly I don't!
    * Gallons Of Water Erm - once again - I don't
    * Harmful Chemical Processes and yet again...I don't do this either

We Do Use:

    * Ladders and Traditional Tools This i do!
    * Just Enough WaterYep - no more than is necessary...
    * Small Amounts of Eco-Friendly Detergent It's non-toxic and Bio-Degradeable!

Unsure as to why anyone would take offence or question this? I do not deride the value of WFP systems - just in my opinion they do not perform the task to the high standards I set for cleaning a window.

The 2005 working at height regulations do not ban the use of ladders - although they do strongly suggest that they should not be used in situations where the work can be carried out to the same standard from the ground - which in my opinion it cannot - and that is just my opinion, but as the owner of my business I am entitled to that opinion.

Having worked previously building masts and rigging wireless commercial radio equipment to them I believe I should be reasonably well qualified to assess the pros and cons of working with a ladder and the associated risks, surely. I have worked at heights far exceding those I now work at for many many years and have not once had a fall or injury related to ladder use, mainly because I maintain a healthy respect for working at height at all times and ensure I have done all I can to protect myself, rather than just doing the minimum to comply with standards.

All jobs are subject to a thorough risk assesment and ladder access/placement assessment before I even quote.
All my ladders are of the Class 1 variety and are fitted with stabilisers and ladderstops etc. are used where appropriate.
I carry full insurance from a leading provider - and I mean full insurance, not the cheap and nasty variety that just about makes you legal - that covers both me, the public and the property at which I am working.

If any of the WFP guys have taken offence all I can say is sorry, but none is intended. I am merely positioning myself in the market place as a provider of a service that uses traditional methods rather than the new methods. This is purely a personal/business decision and is not an attack on how you run your business or how you go about your job. In fact I believe there is room in the market for both methods and both have different sets of values and USPs to bring to the job - after that it is down to the customer to decide how they would like their service delivered.

And, far from being a "luddite" I embrace and welcome new technologies - I maintain a professional web-presence with the facilities for customers to pay online (and yes - I know the photos are from i-stock and still have the watermarks on them - but until I get round to finding images I would like to purchase that is how they will have to stay so I can remain "legal") and I am in the process of developing an open-source CRM/ERP system for the window cleaning industry which, once finished, I will be more than happy to share with others. Hardly the attitude of one against progress....

Anyway - oratory over. Hope I have clarified a few points and also glad to see the art of healthy debate is not dead, and that I also belong to a profession that cares enough to not let it die ;-)

Cheers
Andy

Well said matey, some just think owning a wfp system makes them somehow, above you! :

[Niall McAllister]

no, people on ladders are above me, unless the ladder and person are very short

[macmac]

I think andykirk's reply is a very respectfull & knowlagable one. Can't wait to hear the replies from those who assumed he was a dole cheating, cowboy piece of scum who hadn't a clue about safety?

[andykirk]

hi Andy, welcome to the forum, bet you didn't realize you were this important to the window cleaning world.
 

it will work wonders for your google listing

Thanks Boo  

Yep - I just thought I was some bloke getting on with earning a living! - but the google rank won't hurt either - you can't buy link building as good as this lol

[andykirk]

I think andykirk's reply is a very respectfull & knowlagable one. Can't wait to hear the replies from those who assumed he was a dole cheating, cowboy piece of scum who hadn't a clue about safety?

Hi macmac

Thanks - I am now a 3rd generation window cleaner (if it was good enough for my Father and his Father, it's good enough for me!) and felt I had to fight my corner a little ;-)

Andy

[macmac]

I think andykirk's reply is a very respectfull & knowlagable one. Can't wait to hear the replies from those who assumed he was a dole cheating, cowboy piece of scum who hadn't a clue about safety?

Hi macmac

Thanks - I am now a 3rd generation window cleaner (if it was good enough for my Father and his Father, it's good enough for me!) and felt I had to fight my corner a little ;-)

Andy

Yeah, well done mate. I've been wfp for over 5 years but still do plenty of trad too. Ladders is a very bad word on here Andy. Just one mention can transform you into a scumbag!

No way can you compete on "professionalism" with all these wfp'ers about!

I think you've shut a few people up tonight

[old timer]

I can't believe they have used those i-stock photos, it costs about $1 to buy them rather than getting caught and being sued and it makes the website look really pony

[andykirk]

I can't believe they have used those i-stock photos, it costs about $1 to buy them rather than getting caught and being sued and it makes the website look really pony

Hi old timer

Read my lengthy reply above and you'll see why...it's just  not quite finished yet, and they are being used as placeholders in the interim. The reason the watermarks are there is to prevent the possibility of getting sued

[Sapphire Window Cleaning]

Hi Andy, just wondering how you go about cleaning 2nd and 3rd floor windows? I hope its not with a ladder.
As for pictures on the your websites home page, why not have a picture of yourself, then have someone take a picture of you whilst you are working.

I am not having a dig Andy, just trying to help you out.


Matt

[daniel worgan]

I can't believe they have used those i-stock photos, it costs about $1 to buy them rather than getting caught and being sued and it makes the website look really pony

Hi old timer

Read my lengthy reply above and you'll see why...it's just  not quite finished yet, and they are being used as placeholders in the interim. The reason the watermarks are there is to prevent the possibility of getting sued

Well that is interesting.I sell some of my photography artwork to stock sites and was not aware that even a low res pic with a watermark could be used for commercial sites without the permission and purchase from the site.If this is the case why do we get knocked back on submitting so many images and only get paid miniscule sums in commission.... :

[dazmond]

well said andy!there does seem to be an air of smugness with some of these WFPolers and some were trad for years!others cant even use trad!! ;Dive been toying with the idea of staying trad but ive never tryed WFP and some of these guys were trad for as long as me(15 yrs) and say itll be the best thing u will ever do for ur business.all these guys cant be wrong can they?i use ladderstoppers/mitts and extension poles for 2nd and 3rd floor windows but im thinking custys will prefer WFP as they get frames cleaned everytime.also they say wfp is easier for conny roofs,fascias/soffit/gutter cleaning and much faster on bigger houses/leaded/georgian etc.i do agree that trad is v.simple/straightforward/low hassle/low overheads etc.but does it clean better?mmm.....not sure.i do know that WFP is getting a bad name ALL OVER THE COUNTRY!!.NOT JUST ON HERE!ive had a few custys who have told me about WFPOLERS making a mess of windows!always spots/runs etc.does make me question whether im doing the right thing in getting a system

regards dazmond

[steveo22]

I've picked up quite a few of my customers because they are not happy with WFP, All say the same about leaving water spots and runs. Can only be a good thing for me while i'm building up my round. If they ever do ban ladders??!!, i'll advertise as a bungalow specialist, more bungalows than houses in my area

[Gleaming windows]

.If this is the case why do we get knocked back on submitting so many images and only get paid miniscule sums in commission.... :

Because they are in it to make money and you offer the goods.

Its business.

[daniel worgan]

You obviously dont understand how stock image sites work.
We sell pictures to the sites and receive commission depending on the volumne of pics sold,also what resolution is downloaded.If anyone could use the pics as showcased on the sites with the watermarks then photographers who manage to have their work accepted(and believe me this is extremly hard) would be losing out,that is why stock imagery is closely monitored by the sites.Getty images allways pursues image thieves and rightly so...
Thats business...

[david willis]

I can't believe they have used those i-stock photos, it costs about $1 to buy them rather than getting caught and being sued and it makes the website look really pony

Hi old timer

Read my lengthy reply above and you'll see why...it's just  not quite finished yet, and they are being used as placeholders in the interim. The reason the watermarks are there is to prevent the possibility of getting sued

Hi Andy

I would read up on this if i was you, without being an expert I think you are still in a position to be prosecuted under copyright law

I have placed a link to istocks website regarding this

http://www.istockphoto.com/license.php

Hope this helps

David

[A & J Owen Window Cleaning]

maybe its somthing in the water is it stolen water then!!!!

[GWCS]

I can't believe they have used those i-stock photos, it costs about $1 to buy them rather than getting caught and being sued and it makes the website look really pony

Hi old timer

Read my lengthy reply above and you'll see why...it's just  not quite finished yet, and they are being used as placeholders in the interim. The reason the watermarks are there is to prevent the possibility of getting sued

Hi Andy

I would read up on this if i was you, without being an expert I think you are still in a position to be prosecuted under copyright law

I have placed a link to istocks website regarding this

http://www.istockphoto.com/license.php

Hope this helps

David

Correct!

Intellectual Property

All materials (including the organization and presentation of such material) on this Web site (the “Materials”) are the property of iStockphoto and its licensors and may be protected by intellectual property laws including laws relating to copyrights, trade-marks, trade-names, internet domain names, and other similar rights.

Unless you have entered into a separate agreement with iStockphoto, such as a Royalty Free License Agreement, any other use of these Materials without iStockphoto's written permission is prohibited.

The Materials may only be used and copied for your own, non-commercial, personal or educational purposes, provided that the Materials are not modified and that copyright and other intellectual property notices are not deleted. You may not create derivative works from or otherwise exploit the Materials in any way.

[Nathanael Jones]

I'm just waiting for Glyn to comment now IP rights have been mentioned!!