[Milltown Cleaning]

ok folks - give it all to me... info that is!

Im thinking of switching to WFP, but im hearing all sorts of positives and negatives. My run is pretty much all domestic, how happy are people going to be if i do their windows with this system? if a crow flies by 2 days after i have cleaned there windows - in the summer. and its baked onto the window, is the WFP going to shift that at all? And all the other possibel problems! how big a problem are they!?

Im just a little tentative at the moment!

[pjulk]

Your customers will take to WFP just fine its a lot easier converting people now adays as most people have seen a window cleaner at some point using WFP.

Baked on birds crap is easy to get rid off WFP if its a bit stubborn just soak and come back to that window 5 minutes later and it will come off.

Milltown Cleaning

And all the other possibel problems!

Now what problems are those?

To be honest there is hardly any problems with WFP
Most problems are down to user error and easy to overcome.

[Jeff Brimble]

The truth is - you aint going to fall off and you will earn a bit more.

[Pristine Clean]

I am all for WFP. 

But I wouldnt actually say you wont have an issue. If everyone is honest not all customers like WFP.

There are still jobs that only traditional will do. And Even though I am keen on WFP sometimes I thinks its easier with traditional on certain types of windows.

As for earning more, well i dont disagree. But I am not sure if its actually proven. I know you can get more work and because of that i guess you can earn more. Yes it better for the high windows certainly. As for safety its superb. No ladders. Ground floor windows mmm! have to question that one. That includes shop front windows. I am not sure its actually a better result.

I myself cant tell the differnce between a clean window that has been done by a decent window cleaner traditionally or by WFP after wfp window has  dried. And I dont just mean my windows that I do.

traditional is also cheaper running costs. WFP you have to purchase a setup that is right for you. Trolley/ van mount. Or you might need both.. Why? Well you might not be able to get access with a van mount on all/every job. Then if you want a 000 TDS reading you have the expense of the DI Resin. Not cheap. Then you have the filter in the RO and carbon filters etc. Plus even with WFP you will occassionally require trad.

What about a residential front double glazed door? I dont think every customer wants to step into a puddle of water even if they have beened pre warned to wear wellingtons.

After your investment, you ned to get back ROI return on investment. How long will that take you? I know window cleaners that have purchased van mount systems in this climate... and they are saying its going to take several years to get back the investment. AND ARE WISHING THEY HADNT DONE IT.

So think long and hard dont let any one sway you in either direction. If you mainly do residential why not ask them how they feel about you going WFP. Find out there feed back. Explain to them its for safety reasons etc. Explain that its pure water, the process. And most importantly that the windows will be LEFT WET, LIKE JUST WHEN IT RAINS. How will they feel about that? before you purchase what some say the be all and end all product that in my opinion isnt!

But it is great peice of kit, it certainly has it place. Their have been lots of new jobs without it I certainly could not do. But I mainly do commercial.

All the best in your new vnture on WFP.

Dave

[Alex Gardiner]

Truth 1. (as Jeff said) you will be far safer.

You need no other truths really, respect for your own life should be enough of a reason to change.

Truth 2. It cleans very well, once you have mastered the technique which takes about 2-3 months to get right and another 1 year or so to perfect.

Truth 3. You will be able to work shorter days (after about 3 months), but you will be working your body harder.

Truth 4. It is a lot more expensive to set up than a bucket and squeegee.

Truth 5. There will days that you wished you never invested (when your pump plays up or a small connection fails etc)

Truth 6. After a year or so you will wish that you had always cleaned windows this way. I still 'kick' myself that I hadn't listened to my American friends 16 years sooner.

There are more, but that's all for now.

[Pristine Clean]

Truth 1. (as Jeff said) you will be far safer.

You need no other truths really, respect for your own life should be enough of a reason to change.

Truth 2. It cleans very well, once you have mastered the technique which takes about 2-3 months to get right and another 1 year or so to perfect.

Truth 3. You will be able to work shorter days (after about 3 months), but you will be working your body harder.

Truth 4. It is a lot more expensive to set up than a bucket and squeegee.

Truth 5. There will days that you wished you never invested (when your pump plays up or a small connection fails etc)

Truth 6. After a year or so you will wish that you had always cleaned windows this way. I still 'kick' myself that I hadn't listened to my American friends 16 years sooner.

There are more, but that's all for now.

Alex, all good points but you are a supplier of WFP. Thats like talking to a car salesman or an estate agent when buying a car or house.


Dave

[Alex Gardiner]

Been a window cleaner a lot longer - going on 24 years!  Most of my time is still spent window cleaning each week 

[Pristine Clean]

So Alex can you honestly tell me then, can you see the difference in a window that has been cleaned traditionally and a WFP CLEANED Window after it has dried..


Your honest opinion as a window cleaner please.

Dave

[Pj]

The majority of your clients are not really bothered about how you clean their windows, as long as you get them clean and clear off after charging them a fair price.

Most residential clients' eyes glaze over after 5 minutes from you chatting on about zero TDS, 1/12 litres per minute pure flow, 100psi pump, flow controllers, mini bore, ibs tanks blah blah blah...

Just clean the windows!  as quickly, safely, and efficiently as you can.

It's a big initial outlay, and it doesn't suit everyone.

Here is the honest truth........

There is a trade off from doing it the old way.

[Moderator David@stives]

Dont forget the good old spots

[Pj]

The old way ie. Trad(itional):

View the window close up, clean every little speck, scrape off if necessary, dry glass, edges and frames.

WFP:

No ladders, reach almost any window you need to safely, wash windows, frames, fascias, conservatory roofs easy.  But can leave runs, spots and sometimes you miss the birds muck stains but you do get better at sorting it all out, even snail trails.

[Alex Gardiner]

So Alex can you honestly tell me then, can you see the difference in a window that has been cleaned traditionally and a WFP CLEANED Window after it has dried..


Your honest opinion as a window cleaner please.

Dave

My honest opinion is that from inside you can usually tell how a window has been cleaned either by the absence or presence of detailing marks on the edges of the glass. Squeegees/scrims always leave faint detailing lines/marks, unless the operator is absolutely meticulous. A window cleaned well with WFP leaves no such marks.

However I would say that it is possible to leave a window spotted with WFP, this again is down to technique and experience. After a 3-4 months or so of WFP work it will usually only be the odd problem window that will leave spotting. I have noticed on my own house though (another window cleaner does my own property) that this occasional spotting (I have some very awkward windows) is usually less visible than the odd squeegee mark that used to be left. You will miss the odd thing occasionally, but then I used to with trad methods. The number of times having done the inside on a hotel I have had to go back out and pick up after myself having used trad methods is more than now using WFP.

It is better to be very thorough for the first few months with WFP and ignore all of the ultra quick WFP videos that there are on the net. You will soon learn how you can speed up, but if you do not get the windows right in this time period it can be very hard to learn later as you are wanting to go fast not stop and learn. There are a lot of dodgy WFP operators out there just as there have been with traditional methods. (no-one on this forum though!)

[Pristine Clean]

Well Alex,

Your spot on i must say.

You certainly have been a window cleaner for 24 years. Its nice to see other suppliers that know their stuff.

I may even consider looking at your site.

Dave

[tomy jackson]

its not  a problem for me when sumert stops or leks i just sort it , it is part of the job now , as are the hose that snags just sort it with x you see wher to tralal pipe , its a hole difreant ball game you have to lern but you will learn how  , i wish id started out WFP , after two weeks i thort on way im i going back up a bludy ladder , thats why iv got ladder less window cleaner on van if its trad it not me unleass its in side

[trevor perry]

do a proper job first clean scrubbing all frames vents sills etc then go back and clean glass only, if this is done you wont have any problems on maintenance cleans after, if this isnt done then you may have spotting and runs on some windows where dirt is dislodged and runs onto glass.

[Oakley Windows]

Truth 6. After a year or so you will wish that you had always cleaned windows this way. I still 'kick' myself that I hadn't listened to my American friends 16 years sooner.

My only regret.

Im not bandying round figures here, but I did the equivalent of half a weeks ladder work today and was home by 2.

[Tosh]

I do the insides of an office block that OCS do the outsides of; and you wouldn't believe the mess they leave behind.

There must be something about these windows, because I used to leave the odd spot or run; and I was fairly thorough; but these guys who took over the exterior of the building because of a new management company; leave a real mess.

I did the job this morning (I do the insides), and I just can't get over the naff job they do.

They shouldn't bother; the windows look worse than if they'd just left them alone.

I almost felt guilty because what's the point of me cleaning the insides when the exterior is covered in runs and spots?

[sparklebright]

So Alex can you honestly tell me then, can you see the difference in a window that has been cleaned traditionally and a WFP CLEANED Window after it has dried..


Your honest opinion as a window cleaner please.

Dave

I am not a supplier so have no axe to grind as it were.
You can see when a job has been cleaned by WFP, (particularly jobs that have WFP for a few months), the difference is most striking, especially a week or so after a clean.
With trad. within a short time the windows look dirty again, with WFP they still sparkle after 1 or 2 weeks.
Trad leaves a film of detergent encouraging new dirt, that's a fact.
Likes as not for the most part WFP is knocked by those too scared or too skint to do it.

  ;DLight blue touch paper stand well back

[pjulk]

Dave morris @ st-ives  said -

Dont forget the good old spots

You should know by now dave that SPOTS is a banned word.   

[dave.e]

Hi guys i have been wfp for about 5 years and started with ladders for about 12 months doing the windows trd thay need cleaning every 4 weeks and customers could see that. but the only problem with wfp is some customers know thay don't need cleaning so often so thay want every 8 weeks instead so in one way we lose out and i think this will get worse in time. dave