[David Slater]

Gas is no more dangerous than diesel lol,if i lit a match right next to a gas leak and a match next to a diesel leak which would you choose,doh.

Oh dear.....

You've really got the wrong end of the stick havent you?

Is that what you based you 3k purchase on?

Dont you think its possiblre to control leaks of gas/diesel by any other method that lighting a match inside the vehicle?

What about fitting CO2 sensors?

What about fitting auto shut-off gas detectors?

What about acute/chorinc effects of gas or diesel on staff....have you considered them? How are you controlling them?

Judging by your posts, I think you've tried to off load your H&S onto the supplier of the equipment?....they said it was "safe" so it must be "safe"

Now lets try that with a set of ladders - you bought them but you fell offf them - who's at fault?...you or the manufacturer of the ladders?

Obviously its your fault. You didnt properly control the hazards.

How is gas/diesel different?

Please show me at least one link to at least one official site that shows my argument to be wrong?

Come on NWH, it cant be THAT hard?....after all, you've spent 3k on the strengh of somebody telling you gas was "dangerous"?

You MUST have researched this subject?

[NWH]

My diesel fumes go out the floor through a proper exhaust that is made for the heater.

[Nathanael Jones]

If gas was that dangerous, all those cars with LPG conversion kits would have to be put off the road!

Done right it is perfectly safe. The way NWH had the heater on the back door wasn't something I'd recommend to anyone,...

[paulscotney]

If gas was that dangerous, all those cars with LPG conversion kits would have to be put off the road!

Done right it is perfectly safe. The way NWH had the heater on the back door wasn't something I'd recommend to anyone,...

Too true Nathanael

[tomy jackson]

if you lite a lleak it will just brurn and bot will go all icey as in nats pik of a long day it is the gas bild up of gas fumes that go bang , /or if you super heat the botal /

[David Slater]

David Slater you have the wrong end of the stick, no amount of reasoning will help when you compare the two systems. If ever there were an incident.

H&S is really the issue, even if you give everybody the credit of installing there systems properly. It’s doesn’t matter in the slightest that's what you seem to miss.

NWH is correct in what he has done and if others followed his lead as soon as they have the money they will be demonstrating common sense as well.

And what are your qualifications to talk to me about H&S Ewan?

I hold the National Examination Board in Occupational Safety and Health NEBOSH ngc (National General Certificate) and will be a registered with the Institute of Occupational Safety and Health (IOSH) at Technician level in 5 weeks (Tech IOSH).

Would you care to post YOUR H&S qualifications Ewan?

[Nathanael Jones]

Ewan,.. are you saying a gas heater, in non technical, common sense H&S terms, simply CANNOT be installed and used in a safe manner? It seems like quite a broad blanket statement to put in such forceful terms?

[Nathanael Jones]

Do you have a diy wfp setup or a brand name one Ewan?

The danger of an incorrectly fitted tank in a van is also a big H&S issue,... but one that has been around for a few years and is now often accepted without question.

[chrisyg]

Personally i dont have an issue working with the gas heater in the van - its no different to using it with the patio heater in my garden or some caravanner on their hols cooking. OK so im not 50+ metres from it when in the garden but its still being used in a built up neighbour hood without me looking and checking it every 10 seconds. Its could still go up if there was a leak, same as the gas stove in the house!

If it goes it goes, doesn;t matter if im next to it or 50 metres away whatever the appliance.

Its about controlling the risks as David has mentioned. My heater set up will be installed by a registered gas technician, unlike my patio heater! 

Where getting off topic will all you guys squabbling over the risks, what i want to know is how Insurance companies see us using these. So far ive only had one guy saying he had no probs, but yet to explain how he has put it to them.

[Nathanael Jones]

I phoned up my insurance and told them I had installed a gas powered caravan water heater and a 11kg butane cylinder in my van,.. do I need to pay extra or change my cover I asked the girl on the phone? (This was after researching the legalities & regulations involved in such an installation in Ireland, and I was expecting & prepared for some questions). She asked me to hold while she checked with her supervisor, and in less than 30 seconds came back to me and said that it was no problem at all and that I could carry on as normal. I'm with Quinn insurance btw.

[chrisyg]

I phoned up my insurance and told them I had installed a gas powered caravan water heater and a 11kg butane cylinder in my van,.. do I need to pay extra or change my cover I asked the girl on the phone? (This was after researching the legalities & regulations involved in such an installation in Ireland, and I was expecting & prepared for some questions). She asked me to hold while she checked with her supervisor, and in less than 30 seconds came back to me and said that it was no problem at all and that I could carry on as normal. I'm with Quinn insurance btw.

Ahh yes we had this one on another forum. Did you actually chase this up regarding your policy details? Is this covered in the T&C's in the end?

[Nathanael Jones]

I plan to give them a call tomorrow and get it in writing!

[NWH]

I phoned up my insurance and told them I had installed a gas powered caravan water heater and a 11kg butane cylinder in my van,.. do I need to pay extra or change my cover I asked the girl on the phone? (This was after researching the legalities & regulations involved in such an installation in Ireland, and I was expecting & prepared for some questions). She asked me to hold while she checked with her supervisor, and in less than 30 seconds came back to me and said that it was no problem at all and that I could carry on as normal. I'm with Quinn insurance btw.

I for 1 don`t want to keep this thread dragging on but that`s rubbish,if anything goes wrong they won`t want anything to do with any claim you make or a member of the public makes on you.If you re map your car-van ECU who cares no one until something happens it`s exactly the same thing no different,once they investigate the claim in full and by that i mean when it looks like they`ve got to pay out it will become a different story according to a good freind of mine that works for Alliance.You never know what will happen until you make a claim and if your not in line with your policy in every way they will wiggle out of it and having this heater fitted gives them the perfect excuse.

[David Slater]

David Slater you have the wrong end of the stick, no amount of reasoning will help when you compare the two systems. If ever there were an incident.

H&S is really the issue, even if you give everybody the credit of installing there systems properly. It’s doesn’t matter in the slightest that's what you seem to miss.

NWH is correct in what he has done and if others followed his lead as soon as they have the money they will be demonstrating common sense as well.

And what are your qualifications to talk to me about H&S Ewan?

I hold the National Examination Board in Occupational Safety and Health NEBOSH ngc (National General Certificate) and will be a registered with the Institute of Occupational Safety and Health (IOSH) at Technician level in 5 weeks (Tech IOSH).

Would you care to post YOUR H&S qualifications Ewan?

I have a couple of IOSH qualifications, but that’s not the point either.

You of all people should know better if you have had some training regarding H&S.

With or without the qualifications you can still break or bend the rules and no amount of training or qualifications will help you.

Lot of H&S is common sense which is what you would have been taught, so why don’t you use some of that training in regards to this example?

Anybody with common sense will choose which heater for the job? You don’t need qualifications or even to be a window cleaner to make the right choice.

Sounds like to me you put money over H&S anyway, why else would you argue over something as straight forward as this?

Ewan,

A couple of one day IOSH courses is hardly H&S "training" is it?

A lot of people seem to be jumping on 'gas is dangerous' without any knowledge or investigation into the facts. I challenge any of you to explain to EXACTLY why gas is more (or less dangerous) than any other from of heat system.

I use gas at home. I allow it to ignite and burn while my home is unoccupied - we usually call that a central heating systems with a timer which will fire up and run while I am in bed or out at work....Are you suggesting I should only use my boiler at home while I'm in and awake (so I can control the hazard?). Are you suggesting I am doing something dangerous? Are you suggesting my insurance would refuse to pay if the system blew up?

Come on guys  - THINK about what you're saying.

Most of the information on this thread (and other threads on this subject) is flawed. I have shown quite clearly that HSE, VCA and the DoT have no issues with the way I am using gas.



Were you guys this reluctant to take WFP on board?......

 

   

 

[NWH]

You use gas at home as do many many other people,normally it`s stored outside with pipeing coming through the outside wall for cooking.You don`t store the gas inside the home do you,usually 2 large gas bottles will last a year and is safe because it`s as i say stored outside unlike your van.

[chrisyg]

You use gas at home as do many many other people,normally it`s stored outside with pipeing coming through the outside wall for cooking.You don`t store the gas inside the home do you,usually 2 large gas bottles will last a year and is safe because it`s as i say stored outside unlike your van.

My van is outside  its not going to be inside, that would be a H&S issue, not to mention cramped.

Sorry dont see you point here..

[David Slater]

You use gas at home as do many many other people,normally it`s stored outside with pipeing coming through the outside wall for cooking.You don`t store the gas inside the home do you,usually 2 large gas bottles will last a year and is safe because it`s as i say stored outside unlike your van.

And where are you while the gas is 'working' inside the vehicle?

And what do you do when you get back inside the vehicle - shut it off perhaps?

As I was told when I rang HSE - our systems probably come closer to a bitumen vehicle which needs to keep its load heated at all times (whether the vehicle is moving or stationary)....but we dont need to have the system working while the vehicle is moving do we?...because its an 'on demand' system.

You really need to stand back and THINK about this a little bit more....and possibly talk to some people who have more expetrise such as the HSE, DoT and VCA.


Gas CAN be controlled safely with some basic measures. If you think can offload your responsibilities because you "bought a system" I'd seriously think again.

As far as carrying a gas bottle being 'dangerous' I think that one has been well and truly shot out of the water - motorhomes, caravans, burger vans, bitumen vehicles, plumbers etc etc etc..

[NWH]

For household useage why do you think the gas is stored outside normally opposite or at the rear of the cooker on the outside wall,why would you prefer to have it in the kitchen with you.Don`t you think this thread has run it`s course now,if you want to drive round with a potential bomb in your van fine it`s your choice but don`t try to convince everyone it`s a safe option.

[NWH]

You use gas at home as do many many other people,normally it`s stored outside with pipeing coming through the outside wall for cooking.You don`t store the gas inside the home do you,usually 2 large gas bottles will last a year and is safe because it`s as i say stored outside unlike your van.

And where are you while the gas is 'working' inside the vehicle?

And what do you do when you get back inside the vehicle - shut it off perhaps?

As I was told when I rang HSE - our systems probably come closer to a bitumen vehicle which needs to keep its load heated at all times (whether the vehicle is moving or stationary)....but we dont need to have the system working while the vehicle is moving do we?...because its an 'on demand' system.

You really need to stand back and THINK about this a little bit more....and possibly talk to some people who have more expetrise such as the HSE, DoT and VCA.


Gas CAN be controlled safely with some basic measures. If you think can offload your responsibilities because you "bought a system" I'd seriously think again.

As far as carrying a gas bottle being 'dangerous' I think that one has been well and truly shot out of the water - motorhomes, caravans, burger vans, bitumen vehicles, plumbers etc etc etc..

Burger vans-caravans and the like have them disconnected when travelling do you lol,just get yourself a proper heater for goodness sake.

[Tosh]

Just to chuck something else into the mix of this post:

I've a caravan that uses gas and a liesure battery and both of them are stored in the 'gas locker' at the front of the caravan.

But I know that later models of the same caravan have separate compartments for the gas and battery, because there's a posibility of gas escaping from the bottle and a spark from the battery; that's obviously not a safe combination!

Hence the seperate compartments.