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John Kelly

  • Posts: 4461
Re: big discussion about agitaters
« Reply #20 on: January 01, 2009, 04:36:35 pm »
The Flexi Five is exclusive to Chemspec. Solutions never had any to sell yet were advertising them at reduced price.

pete sween

  • Posts: 97
Re: big discussion about agitaters
« Reply #21 on: January 01, 2009, 04:47:59 pm »
You can still get them cheaper for the recon models (they have only been used once or twice at exhibitions) but you only get 3 months warranty instead of the usual 12. I know the owner well (even have me on their website as recommended) so happy to put in a call for you but as Mark said, you won't get them at that price any more, more like 4 or 500 but thats still half price.

Pete

Re: big discussion about agitaters
« Reply #22 on: January 01, 2009, 05:14:15 pm »
All,
Do you think that all this agitation is really nessasary?
Dont you think that damage could be caused by agitating a carpet for 20mins or so ie de-twisting the pile, whether it be a "z"or "s" twist, due to the heat generated through the brushes.
I`ve seen it done with a slow speed roto when bonnet cleaning, NO not by me.

Chemspec recommend that when using their products that you only give a light agitate, and when you are spot cleaning you only blot and not rub.

I`ve used a Host machine some yrs ago, when we were given a demo, and i was shocked at how much lint came off the carpet (it was an old carpet we were using) i would dread to think what it would be like on a new`ish one, it really made the carpet look more "fluffy,"not in a good way but as the top of the pile had been damaged. It really was different to the other half of the carpet, that we HWE, as we could have a comparison.

IMO i think that if you have to agitate that long the products cant be that good, probably get the same results with water.
Has anyone tried this??
It would be interesting to hear from someone who has tried this......
but would they be honest with their results, if they did.

Regards
Daryl

mark shannon

  • Posts: 961
Re: big discussion about agitaters
« Reply #23 on: January 01, 2009, 05:27:30 pm »
Agree to some extent Daryl only agitate on very dirty.

Light work in of prespray with carpet brush seems to do the trick on most.

However a good agitating machine should IMO be in your arsenal.

Mark

Joe H

Re: big discussion about agitaters
« Reply #24 on: January 01, 2009, 05:28:05 pm »
Dont know of any product that requires 20 minutes agitation!
Are you getting mixed up with dwell time?

20 minutes spent on a domestic sized carpet agitating is a long time, and of course the machine is not stationary in one spot.

and I would imagine there is a difference between lifting a pile as with CRB, and the possible shear action caused by the swirl of a rotary.

With spot cleaning you are looking for transfer of the spot.
With agitation you are looking to get the cleaning fluid in deep down and around the fibre so it can disolve the sticky dirt so it can be rinsed out.

derek west

Re: big discussion about agitaters
« Reply #25 on: January 01, 2009, 05:30:13 pm »
daryl
interesting post, i wait for some good replies to this.

thanks for all the info, looks like i'm swinging towards envirodri allthough not heard much about the prochem one yet. if i go enviro, then yes pete, wouldn't mind a good word put in. cheers for that. think i'll wait the outcome and comments from daryls post,


derek

davep

  • Posts: 2589

mark shannon

  • Posts: 961
Re: big discussion about agitaters
« Reply #27 on: January 01, 2009, 05:35:18 pm »
Envirodry is i think sold with white brushes which i find to be very harsh on domestics,  gold or white and gold brushes should keep you out of trouble.

Pete i think it was you who posted about ex demos and i bought mine the next day thanks ;).

Warranty i think void anyway if you use to agitate prespray.

Mark

james roffey

Re: big discussion about agitaters
« Reply #28 on: January 01, 2009, 05:36:10 pm »
I have been looking for a Host or Envirodry for 3 months now on Ebay host went for £380 and it was 13 years old! silly money will probably have to buy Envirodry new, both very sought after second hand.

Ken Wainwright

  • Posts: 2107
Re: big discussion about agitaters
« Reply #29 on: January 01, 2009, 05:48:56 pm »
I've been using an Envirodri E40 for about 5 years. Before that it was many years with a Host T6. IMO, the weight of the Envirodri is beneficial.

Pile damage?  None for me. I use predominantley the softest Gold brushes. Superb job. The standard white, or often even the Chipmunk, are too agressive for wool and many nylons and could cause pile burst and excessive shedding. The white brush is great on cut pile polyprops for opening the flattened pile and removing a little more fibrous soiling. Use this for commercial loop nylons and polyprops.

Never use the stiff blacks on any polyprop. I only use them on Flotex, both dry and wet. Superb.

Like many other users, I initially had a mind set that the stiffer the brush, the better the cleaning side of the job. WRONG :-[ The softest brush will usually perform all the pile lifting you want in a safe way, and the aforementioned JB likens the solution distribution of soft brushes as being more like applying  paint with a paintbrush as opposed to trying to do it with a stiff scrubbing brush. Much better job. Regardless of the explanation, soft brushes work best.

I clean many wool carpets every year and have not seen any signs of premature wear due to my agitation methods.

With the Envirodri and the Host, you can work with the handle from both sides of the machine. The last Prochem Fibredri machine I used was probably a nicer, quieter performer (but not better), but you could only work from one side of the machine, and not with the handle vertical either. Also, Prochem more expensive than Envirodri, but cheaper than Host.

Although rarely seen, the Host T6 replacement (Reliant?) without an attached vac, is probably still available.

Safe and happy cleaning :)
Ken

PS I may know of a lightly used E40 for about £400.
Veni, vidi vici, Vaxi
I came, I saw, I conquered, I cleaned up!

Re: big discussion about agitaters
« Reply #30 on: January 01, 2009, 06:16:09 pm »
I thought that when you are spot cleaning you have to get the solution to the bottom of the pile to release it from there?

regarding the agitation folks on here have said (on other threads) that you have to "go for it" and keep" going for it " for 20mins :o whether it is shearing(this only happened because they hadn`t used enough prespray, too dry) or the stiffness of the brushes of the CRB, you cant really expect me or anyone to believe this is good for the carpet!

With the amount of equipment everyone recommends that they should have/carry around they will be turning up at customers in a 16 wheeler!!!

All i`m saying is if you cant get a excellent result with the correct chemicals, a bit of agitation and a truckmount(and a good porty....sorry derek) then all that agitation/expence is a waste of time and money.

It does make me wonder how many people on here, and other forums, work for or get commision off some suppliers for the amount of kit they say to carry around, mainly towards the Newbies.

Regards

Daryl



Joe H

Re: big discussion about agitaters
« Reply #31 on: January 01, 2009, 06:36:24 pm »

With the amount of equipment everyone recommends that they should have/carry around they will be turning up at customers in a 16 wheeler!!!

It does make me wonder how many people on here, and other forums, work for or get commision off some suppliers for the amount of kit they say to carry around, mainly towards the Newbies.

Regards
Daryl

Daryl
16 wheeler - made me chuckle.  Feel like I need one at times.
I like to carry 2 wands - one glided 2 jet, and an unglided 4 jet. Different carpets, different wands.
Also, too many cleaning products.  Got stuff from Chemspec, Hydramaster, Alltec, Solutions, Craftex, Prochem, Amtech and probably three or four more when leather stuff included.

Re the other point........ Dont know of anyone in that situation. but personally, much rather be a free agent so I can choose what I want to use, when I want to use it.

pete sween

  • Posts: 97
Re: big discussion about agitaters
« Reply #32 on: January 01, 2009, 07:02:34 pm »


Daryl

I am guessing that your comments re commission are aimed (in part) at me. I have arranged for a few people to get envirodries at this cheaper rate and hopefully some of them are reading and will corroborate this. I really can't be arsed with making a few quid commission to help people out. How many on here have I helped with interenet advertising (a topic I know a fair bit about) and this has taken up hours of my time but because many others have helped me in areas where my skills are low than I am happy to do my bit back.

Think about what you say before you say things and more importantly who they are directed at because those who know me will simply shoot you down in flames when I am just trying too help people out.

Oh and by the way, judging from Dereks posts I would hardly put him in newbie status. He might not have been doing it long but he seems to have picked up alot more than alot of CCs near me that have been doing it for years.

Derek,

Ring envirodri yourself and ask for Gills or Gill and say I told you to call them and this will be enough for them to look after you. As for the damage element to carpet these machines have been rigously tested and that the different types of brushes are there for different types of fibre. The gold brshes are softer than those of a tampico brush so that comment made earlier is way off. Get yourself an envirodri or if you can afford it go for the Flexi 5. Your performance levels will be way through the roof mate.

Good luck
Pete


Re: big discussion about agitaters
« Reply #33 on: January 01, 2009, 07:26:02 pm »
Joe
I was like that with chems, but since i`v had the TM i have cut right back.

I stand corrected regarding the CRB, i didnt know they had soft brushes.
Thats my point.. people are telling others what machine to get but not telling the whole story :( if i didnt know, how would anyone else?? it wasnt untill Mark said that everyone else did. So Derek (and others)may have been able to save themselves some money by ordering the machine with the brushes they needed.

After saying that i still won be getting one, i`ll stick with my slow speed roto,with soft brushes, if i need it. How many slow speed roto`s can you buy for the price of a CRB ;)
As i said how much agitation do you need ??

Daryl

Joe H

Re: big discussion about agitaters
« Reply #34 on: January 01, 2009, 07:36:57 pm »
For Daryl and others

Envirodri and Host do 5 sets of brushes.
Envirodri cost about £90 for 2 (a set), Host is about £170 per set of 2.
The Prochem machine has 3 sets of brushes (I think) costing about £90 per set.

For Envirodri and Host the colours are

Black - harsh and to be used on hard floors- tiles etc (Ken W. used them on Flotex as well).
Black/White harder then white
White - standard brushes as supplied
White/Gold bit softer then white
Gold  for wool

With Prochem the black is the softest

mark shannon

  • Posts: 961
Re: big discussion about agitaters
« Reply #35 on: January 01, 2009, 07:47:21 pm »
Like all our cleaning equipment these £100 brushes are a real bargain  :o

Joe H

Re: big discussion about agitaters
« Reply #36 on: January 01, 2009, 07:55:17 pm »
Mark - sometimes I wonder how some can justify prices.

Re: big discussion about agitaters
« Reply #37 on: January 01, 2009, 08:09:32 pm »
Pete
My comments are not directed towards you as i didnt know, and yes you have helped me regarding yell which i thank you for.
Why are you taking it so personal when i didnt know???
I know you have given your time for nothing but ,lets be honest,how many people out there are like that, in my experiance not many.
 Sorry if i tarred everyone with the same brush.
What i am saying is that when people give information through the forum they should try to be a bit more specific ie buy that machine with  that brush or this machine with this brush.
Not buy this machine or that machine and when they have , then turn around and say well you should have bought this as well.

Daryl

Andrew Briscoe

  • Posts: 1311
Re: big discussion about agitaters
« Reply #38 on: January 01, 2009, 10:10:35 pm »
Derek, you could take a look at the Orbot, not quite an agitation machine, but will clean a multitude of floors
http://www.ukcleaningsystems.com/

Andrew.

Carpet Genie

  • Posts: 92
Re: big discussion about agitaters
« Reply #39 on: January 01, 2009, 11:47:52 pm »
Derek,

I've been using the Envirodri for about 3 months now and yes you do get some carpet residue brought up by the machine but not a huge amount when using the soft brushes.  I've used it on every job in the last three months and every one has commented on how good the carpet looked prior to any extraction.
I've not had any call backs either complaining that the carpet is in any way damaged.
I think you just have to be careful which brushes you use.

Good luck with your choice.
Mike George

The Carpet genie