[Nathanael Jones]

I registered for vat at the very outset,.. when I had ZERO income.

To be honest, probably not the smartest move,.. If I was doing things again I'd probably wait 2 years till I hit the threshold.

In Ireland the threshold is €36K I think,... so and "real" company is VAT registered. Rather than giving you extra credibility being registered, its simply the norm. If you're not registered you are often perceived as a cowboy cleaner, or very new to the business.

Being VAT registered did help me get work, and better quality work too,... but with the threshold being so much higher in the UK I doubt the same would apply. My advice it to wait till you're very near the VAT limit already, and register the month before you buy a new van!

 

[simon123]

VAT for a £1300 pm income (that you sold anyway)

Business accounts are so "cool" because you get an account manager

You puzzle me Simon

Pro

Sometimes i puzzle myself mate !  If i could lend you my head for a week you would be more understanding 

Is it to do with bi-polar?
I've known several people with this and it often seems to produce situations where somebody has a view of their capabilities that are very incompatible with reality.  We can all go through phases like that I suppose but with bi-polar it does appear far more extreme (hence the revised name for the condition).
I won't go into how the condition affected the others I knew as that's their stuff.  Some of the things you post on here seem to have some resemblance.
I realise I'm probably not exactly your favourite person but I do have some empathy with you.

Thank you for that lovely post mate .  In the past I have been to a dark place that wasnt very nice , but with a bit of help from my good friends I am doing very well now thank you    I havnt had a low patch for about 18 months now , so I am happy now my friend 

[simon123]

Just to add , that when I am up I am very positive and this has got me a lot of good business , so would I change my condition ? . . . . . . not on your life LOL 

[windowwashers]

Gordon

I can see your points and some are valid IMO, but someone can start a business today get all insurances and go VAT registered straight away with no turnover at all so this does discredit some of the points somewhat (even though to a degree I think you are right just not on all commercial.
A slick website is just the same as VAT no body knows what you can do from it. yet the website IMO helps a great deal (I know I am going to say that as I design them, but I strongly think it is true).
I know at some point I will have no choice but to register for VAT in one of the business' and be an unpaid tax collector like others but for now I am happy as I do not go after very large jobs in the Thousands as it is not in my business model, this could change in time who knows.
I got a office contract about 4 weeks ago and the reason was the way I handled myself on the phone and in person, vat had no bearing on this what so ever VAT does not make you clean windows any better or mean you will turn up etc. Please do not think that I am saying your totally wrong as I am not, I am just making a few fair points from the other side of the coin so to speak.

Ian

Ian, you are completely of the mark for example, some one with no turnover just starting could well have saved them selves thousands in VAT if they registered even though they have no turnover yet.

The only similarities between VAT and a website are the perception they both can give. That perception should be for the better.

Customers may not be aware of your cleaning capabilities, but I think you will come across with better business acumen because you have been able to create an acceptable infrastructure in your business regardless whether you have just started.

Business to Business not Window Cleaner to Business!

This is what you think Ewan and your welcome to your view 

[windowwashers]

Gordon

I can see your points and some are valid IMO, but someone can start a business today get all insurances and go VAT registered straight away with no turnover at all so this does discredit some of the points somewhat (even though to a degree I think you are right just not on all commercial.
A slick website is just the same as VAT no body knows what you can do from it. yet the website IMO helps a great deal (I know I am going to say that as I design them, but I strongly think it is true).
I know at some point I will have no choice but to register for VAT in one of the business' and be an unpaid tax collector like others but for now I am happy as I do not go after very large jobs in the Thousands as it is not in my business model, this could change in time who knows.
I got a office contract about 4 weeks ago and the reason was the way I handled myself on the phone and in person, vat had no bearing on this what so ever VAT does not make you clean windows any better or mean you will turn up etc. Please do not think that I am saying your totally wrong as I am not, I am just making a few fair points from the other side of the coin so to speak.

Ian

Ian, you are completely of the mark for example, some one with no turnover just starting could well have saved them selves thousands in VAT if they registered even though they have no turnover yet.

The only similarities between VAT and a website are the perception they both can give. That perception should be for the better.

Customers may not be aware of your cleaning capabilities, but I think you will come across with better business acumen because you have been able to create an acceptable infrastructure in your business regardless whether you have just started.

Business to Business not Window Cleaner to Business!

This is what you think Ewan and your welcome to your view 

It’s not my view though, just common business practice.

You wear many coats when you work for self, but a lot of business is standardised you can go against the grain but you wont change anything and it’s all tried and tested formula the blue-print’s for financial/business success are there the only difference is the people!

My last reply was meant as this is what you think thats great I cant be bothered to argue a point over something that really does not make any difference to my business.

I am happy for you if when you started out you registered for VAT straight away hopefully you dont come to my areas of work as you will take all my window cleaner to business customers away from me and become the leading UK business to business window cleaner. I personally will carry on the way I am 

Sorry I am being silly now, so I will stop, I think listening to the rain on my office window is making me a little crazy.

[Clive McDonald]

Interesting Simon- so when you are 'up' you are a whirlwind that doesn't take the knock backs like the rest of us, you are like one of those sprinters from jamiaca with short twitch muscles, you must have been geneticly bred for door knocking.Good for you.

[Roger Slater]

i have found that it makes no difference

Makes no difference ive just landed a large commercial contract and was competing against larger companies who are vat registered.

I asked the facilitys director of the company why he chose us. He said mainly price and the quality of our quote.

So i suppose it comes down to how professional you are and being vat registered doesnt matter.

IMO forcing vat registration onto yourself just opens up a whole set of new propblems.

[windowwashers]

i have found that it makes no difference

Makes no difference ive just landed a large commercial contract and was competing against larger companies who are vat registered.

I asked the facilitys director of the company why he chose us. He said mainly price and the quality of our quote.

So i suppose it comes down to how professional you are and being vat registered doesnt matter.

IMO forcing vat registration onto yourself just opens up a whole set of new propblems.

Thank god there is another on here that agrees

[Oakley Windows]

Just to add , that when I am up I am very positive and this has got me a lot of good business , so would I change my condition ? . . . . . . not on your life LOL 

Ive heard it said that the highs the individual experiences with bi-polar are what makes the condition bearable, in fact although the lows are dreadfully dreadfully, debilitating and depressingly low the highs are just fabulous, like that of a drug induced ecstacy.

[Roger Slater]

Are you on drugs now matt?

[simon123]

Just to add , that when I am up I am very positive and this has got me a lot of good business , so would I change my condition ? . . . . . . not on your life LOL 

Ive heard it said that the highs the individual experiences with bi-polar are what makes the condition bearable, in fact although the lows are dreadfully dreadfully, debilitating and depressingly low the highs are just fabulous, like that of a drug induced ecstacy.

Yeah baby ! 

[Paul Coleman]

VAT for a £1300 pm income (that you sold anyway)

Business accounts are so "cool" because you get an account manager

You puzzle me Simon

Pro

Sometimes i puzzle myself mate !  If i could lend you my head for a week you would be more understanding 

Is it to do with bi-polar?
I've known several people with this and it often seems to produce situations where somebody has a view of their capabilities that are very incompatible with reality.  We can all go through phases like that I suppose but with bi-polar it does appear far more extreme (hence the revised name for the condition).
I won't go into how the condition affected the others I knew as that's their stuff.  Some of the things you post on here seem to have some resemblance.
I realise I'm probably not exactly your favourite person but I do have some empathy with you.

Thank you for that lovely post mate .  In the past I have been to a dark place that wasnt very nice , but with a bit of help from my good friends I am doing very well now thank you    I havnt had a low patch for about 18 months now , so I am happy now my friend 

Glad to hear that you're happy with your lot.  Been to a few dark places myself (for different reasons).  What doesn't kill you makes you stronger (well, mostly    ).

[Oakley Windows]

Are you on drugs now matt?

   far from it, if only you knew.

I know someone very well who has bi-polar, what I say is the truth.

[Paul Coleman]

Just to add , that when I am up I am very positive and this has got me a lot of good business , so would I change my condition ? . . . . . . not on your life LOL 

Ive heard it said that the highs the individual experiences with bi-polar are what makes the condition bearable, in fact although the lows are dreadfully dreadfully, debilitating and depressingly low the highs are just fabulous, like that of a drug induced ecstacy.

The trouble is that some people can become very divorced from reality on the highs.  I know that spending money one hasn't got can be a major symptom of them (I don't mean to the degree that many people do it but something far more excessive).  One person in particular who I knew had severe delusions on high phases but I won't write them here as it would break a confidence.  I would add that she was far worse when not taking her medication.

[simon123]

Just to add , that when I am up I am very positive and this has got me a lot of good business , so would I change my condition ? . . . . . . not on your life LOL 

Ive heard it said that the highs the individual experiences with bi-polar are what makes the condition bearable, in fact although the lows are dreadfully dreadfully, debilitating and depressingly low the highs are just fabulous, like that of a drug induced ecstacy.

The trouble is that some people can become very divorced from reality on the highs.  I know that spending money one hasn't got can be a major symptom of them (I don't mean to the degree that many people do it but something far more excessive).  One person in particular who I knew had severe delusions on high phases but I won't write them here as it would break a confidence.  I would add that she was far worse when not taking her medication.

Well 7 yrs ago after my divorce , i sold the house and blew £1000,s in six months !!!! . . . . . . . bur what a good time I had 

[Ian Lancaster]

Being over 90% domestic, I view having to register for VAT as the death knoll to my business.  I don't need to wonder what would happen if I suddenly increased my prices by 17.5%, even if I did explain to every customer that it was the government, not me who would be benefitting, I know - I would lose a huge proportion of my customers.

I can see no advantage in being VAT registered for the smaller businessman and so I have no intention of exceeding the limit - my immediate ambition is to retire, and I will be able to live very comfortably in retirement on an income well below £67,000 per annum

I leave it to you youngsters to continue to pay your exhorbitant taxes, long may you do so, especially if it contributes to my pension

[simon123]

Being over 90% domestic, I view having to register for VAT as the death knoll to my business.  I don't need to wonder what would happen if I suddenly increased my prices by 17.5%, even if I did explain to every customer that it was the government, not me who would be benefitting, I know - I would lose a huge proportion of my customers.

I can see no advantage in being VAT registered for the smaller businessman and so I have no intention of exceeding the limit - my immediate ambition is to retire, and I will be able to live very comfortably in retirement on an income well below £67,000 per annum

I leave it to you youngsters to continue to pay your exhorbitant taxes, long may you do so, especially if it contributes to my pension

Ay up Ian , you could teach these young ens a thing or too about running a business 

[Moderator David@stives]

Ian is your business seen as a seperate entity to your franchise ?

[Paul Coleman]

Just to add , that when I am up I am very positive and this has got me a lot of good business , so would I change my condition ? . . . . . . not on your life LOL 

Ive heard it said that the highs the individual experiences with bi-polar are what makes the condition bearable, in fact although the lows are dreadfully dreadfully, debilitating and depressingly low the highs are just fabulous, like that of a drug induced ecstacy.

The trouble is that some people can become very divorced from reality on the highs.  I know that spending money one hasn't got can be a major symptom of them (I don't mean to the degree that many people do it but something far more excessive).  One person in particular who I knew had severe delusions on high phases but I won't write them here as it would break a confidence.  I would add that she was far worse when not taking her medication.

Well 7 yrs ago after my divorce , i sold the house and blew £1000,s in six months !!!! . . . . . . . bur what a good time I had 

Aha !!  But do you remember any of it?    .  Not much point having a good time if you can't remember it. 

[simon123]

Just to add , that when I am up I am very positive and this has got me a lot of good business , so would I change my condition ? . . . . . . not on your life LOL 

Ive heard it said that the highs the individual experiences with bi-polar are what makes the condition bearable, in fact although the lows are dreadfully dreadfully, debilitating and depressingly low the highs are just fabulous, like that of a drug induced ecstacy.

The trouble is that some people can become very divorced from reality on the highs.  I know that spending money one hasn't got can be a major symptom of them (I don't mean to the degree that many people do it but something far more excessive).  One person in particular who I knew had severe delusions on high phases but I won't write them here as it would break a confidence.  I would add that she was far worse when not taking her medication.

Well 7 yrs ago after my divorce , i sold the house and blew £1000,s in six months !!!! . . . . . . . bur what a good time I had 

Aha !!  But do you remember any of it?    .  Not much point having a good time if you can't remember it. 

LOL