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jaykie

Re: Reach & Wash - registered trade mark?
« Reply #80 on: August 18, 2008, 12:24:23 pm »
Lets time how long after i make this post this item is still on ebay, its 10.24am now.

h ttp://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Water-Fed-Pole-for-Reach-Wash_W0QQitemZ230282383173QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item230282383173&_trkparms=39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A10%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Roger Slater

Re: Reach & Wash - registered trade mark?
« Reply #81 on: August 18, 2008, 02:12:13 pm »
LOL they don't need to sue you (though I'm sure they could) they only need to report you to trading standards.  Because saying you use reach and wash when in actual fact you use Mr Bodgit's DIY system, is fasle selling or something.

Like saying you sell Armani perfume when its really something else entirely

Then you'll be right up the creek

What a load of CODS WALLOP, The term REACH & WASH is synonymous with the use of waterfef poles, not the kit.

My friend I doubt very much Ionics or trading standards could or would even want to persue the fact that you have (NEW REACH AND WASH) wording on your van just because your not using an Ionics System.

The Mr Bodgits DIY Syatem as you call it does the same, if not a better job, Ioncis systems are just glorified mr Bodgits System as you would like to call them. I use a 1000 litre tank (Meaning I never run out of water) 100psi Shurflo pump and varistream controller, HXTEL poles, Optima Yellow Top YT S 4.2 Deep Cycle Battery, Onboard split charger,  Static 1000 litre tank at home, 300 GPD RO and I dont suffer from frozen pipes.

The only advantage Ionics has over mine is it re-circulates a percentage of waste water, Good if your on a water meter (Thats all)

Ionics PRO7-1000TP – 1,000 litre System £10,500
Mr Bodgit                 -  1,000 Litre System £2000

You dont need heat to stop the pipes from freezing in winter either.

In your infinite wisdom please tell me where you can get better kit than mine.

WCE

  • Posts: 968
Re: Reach & Wash - registered trade mark?
« Reply #82 on: August 18, 2008, 04:48:24 pm »

My friend I doubt very much Ionics or trading standards could or would even want to persue the fact that you have (NEW REACH AND WASH) wording on your van just because your not using an Ionics System.

I wouldn't be so sure, read this topic again from the start and search the forum for reach and wash and amongst the posts you will see that Ionics have a bit of form in this respect. They have also made numerous complaints to the advertising standards authority. If they have done it before then they will do it again.

LOL they don't need to sue you (though I'm sure they could) they only need to report you to trading standards.  Because saying you use reach and wash when in actual fact you use Mr Bodgit's DIY system, is fasle selling or something.

Like saying you sell Armani perfume when its really something else entirely

Then you'll be right up the creek

What a load of CODS WALLOP, The term REACH & WASH is synonymous with the use of waterfef poles, not the kit.

My friend I doubt very much Ionics or trading standards could or would even want to persue the fact that you have (NEW REACH AND WASH) wording on your van just because your not using an Ionics System.

The Mr Bodgits DIY Syatem as you call it does the same, if not a better job, Ioncis systems are just glorified mr Bodgits System as you would like to call them. I use a 1000 litre tank (Meaning I never run out of water) 100psi Shurflo pump and varistream controller, HXTEL poles, Optima Yellow Top YT S 4.2 Deep Cycle Battery, Onboard split charger,  Static 1000 litre tank at home, 300 GPD RO and I dont suffer from frozen pipes.

The only advantage Ionics has over mine is it re-circulates a percentage of waste water, Good if your on a water meter (Thats all)

Ionics PRO7-1000TP – 1,000 litre System £10,500
Mr Bodgit                 -  1,000 Litre System £2000

You dont need heat to stop the pipes from freezing in winter either.

In your infinite wisdom please tell me where you can get better kit than mine.

Tennet wasn't having ago at anyones equipment (for once) his point was quite valid imo. The fact is that ionics have registered reach & wash as a brand name for their wfp systems.  As it is their brand I can quite understand them wanting to protect it and really it no longer matters if it was a common terms used to describe wfp as it is now trade marked simple as that.  You couldn't bring out a cola drink and call it coca cola or the new pepsi. The companies would be straight onto to you for attempting to steal their brand.
 As for thinking "oh I am only small fry in their eyes i doubt they'll bother with me" don't be so sure. Years ago there was a shop in Tewkesbury. When it opened the owners had came up with a name for it (Can't remember what it was though), at the same time Disney launched a new product with the same name (although at the time it the owners weren't aware of this fact) Now the product was a success and became a well known name for Disney. Meanwhile the shop in Tewkesbury continued as before (with the owners remarking on the coincidence that both they and Disney hit upon the same name). Then one day a letter arrived from Disney, they demanded that the shops name is changed, the owners did try to put up a fight but to cut a long story short Disney made it quite clear that they would take all the action they could to prevent the shop trading with their brand name. Now Disney is an international, multi billion pound empire and they still went to great lengths to stop the shop (which was in a back street of a small town) using their name.  Less than 0.5% of Disneys customers would of ever known that this shop existed and yet they still tracked them down. Disney is much bigger than Ionics and I would imagine that they have many more breaches of their trademarks than Ionics but yet they still went after the small fry. Therefore I think that it is quite possible that Ionics would take action against w/c's using their trademarked words.           
WCE- For Windows that shine everytime!

Alex Gardiner

  • Posts: 7744
Re: Reach & Wash - registered trade mark?
« Reply #83 on: August 18, 2008, 04:55:28 pm »
At the end of the day, the law is the law. In this case it states that it is against the law to trade/use/reproduce/pass yourself off as/etc using someone else's registered trademark.

The vast majority of window cleaners are exceptionally law abiding citizens and even if there was no chance of action would not want to break the law of the land by using a trademark without permission.

David Slater

Re: Reach & Wash - registered trade mark?
« Reply #84 on: August 18, 2008, 09:38:50 pm »
I have to admit this is pretty hilarious.  Especially what david slater has said.

LOL

"Shot themselves in the foot" "made me a very unhappy bunny" LOL do you think they could give a toss what anyone on here thinks?  99% on here are not and in all likelihood never be their customers anyway.  I'm an exception and look how much stick I get lol.  No, no the people on here are primarily bodge-it merchants who cant quite believe the prices that ionics can charge, so they're not loosing anything by upsetting a bunch of forum numpties.  And as for nobody knowing what it is, thats wrong.  Commercial customers ONLY know reach & wash, they dont say "waterfed pole system".  LOL if its such a not-known-about thing then why is everyone and his dog falling over themselves to use it even illegally.

And LOL @ L.J.Thorpe.  Think you might have meant my good self?  I'll be honest, on this occasion I had nothing to do with reporting anyone, and I cant even remember the original thread.

HOWEVER, I would not hesitate to report someone if they were using the logo when they didnt have a real reach and wash system, especially if they were local to me.

Like I said, I think its pretty funny.  My advice is, if you want to use their logo then do what I did and get one of their systems.  Simple really.

Tennent,

Trust me on this fella.

You dont get 'stick' due to your support of Ionics, but because of your aggresive and argumentative style of posting.

I'm sure Ionics squirm just as much when they read your posts as they do mine.

Your style of your posting is to attempt to belittle and intimidate other posters into backing down and accepting the status quo.

I try to highlight and challenge the accepted standard and see if there are other views/opinions/ideas.

A perfect case in point is the topic on Ionics crash testing standards.

You wade in and throw your (flawed) knowledge around in an attempt to make other posters back down. As soon as the issue was clearly highlighted and some very real concerns and very real solutions were highlighted you went very quiet for some strange reason.

Dont try and intimidate me Tennent. TALK and DISCUSS your thoughts and ideas with me. I will listen and I may even take on board what you're saying.

The amount of help and information/advice I have received from these boards is staggering. Its just a shame you dont want to share your knowledge in the same spirit.

If you want to argue with me, thats fine. We can arrange our very own "lets throw insults at each other" thread.....I doubt it we be beneficial or helpful in the long run to anyone (including you or I).

You like Ionics and have found their products good value/reliable/serviceable/backup to be good/ etc etc Thats great! why not argue your point from that stance?


...But what would you do if someone came along with an even BETTER system?...you'd look ever so silly of you bought it!

merson

Re: Reach & Wash - registered trade mark?
« Reply #85 on: August 18, 2008, 09:46:59 pm »
I have to admit this is pretty hilarious.  Especially what david slater has said.

LOL

"Shot themselves in the foot" "made me a very unhappy bunny" LOL do you think they could give a toss what anyone on here thinks?  99% on here are not and in all likelihood never be their customers anyway.  I'm an exception and look how much stick I get lol.  No, no the people on here are primarily bodge-it merchants who cant quite believe the prices that ionics can charge, so they're not loosing anything by upsetting a bunch of forum numpties.  And as for nobody knowing what it is, thats wrong.  Commercial customers ONLY know reach & wash, they dont say "waterfed pole system".  LOL if its such a not-known-about thing then why is everyone and his dog falling over themselves to use it even illegally.

And LOL @ L.J.Thorpe.  Think you might have meant my good self?  I'll be honest, on this occasion I had nothing to do with reporting anyone, and I cant even remember the original thread.

HOWEVER, I would not hesitate to report someone if they were using the logo when they didnt have a real reach and wash system, especially if they were local to me.

Like I said, I think its pretty funny.  My advice is, if you want to use their logo then do what I did and get one of their systems.  Simple really.

Tennent,

Trust me on this fella.

You dont get 'stick' due to your support of Ionics, but because of your aggresive and argumentative style of posting.

I'm sure Ionics squirm just as much when they read your posts as they do mine.

Your style of your posting is to attempt to belittle and intimidate other posters into backing down and accepting the status quo.

I try to highlight and challenge the accepted standard and see if there are other views/opinions/ideas.

A perfect case in point is the topic on Ionics crash testing standards.

You wade in and throw your (flawed) knowledge around in an attempt to make other posters back down. As soon as the issue was clearly highlighted and some very real concerns and very real solutions were highlighted you went very quiet for some strange reason.

Dont try and intimidate me Tennent. TALK and DISCUSS your thoughts and ideas with me. I will listen and I may even take on board what you're saying.

The amount of help and information/advice I have received from these boards is staggering. Its just a shame you dont want to share your knowledge in the same spirit.

If you want to argue with me, thats fine. We can arrange our very own "lets throw insults at each other" thread.....I doubt it we be beneficial or helpful in the long run to anyone (including you or I).

You like Ionics and have found their products good value/reliable/serviceable/backup to be good/ etc etc Thats great! why not argue your point from that stance?


...But what would you do if someone came along with an even BETTER system?...you'd look ever so silly of you bought it!
Best post of the year !!!  Well done that man  ;D

David Slater

Re: Reach & Wash - registered trade mark?
« Reply #86 on: August 18, 2008, 09:54:33 pm »
LOL they don't need to sue you (though I'm sure they could) they only need to report you to trading standards.  Because saying you use reach and wash when in actual fact you use Mr Bodgit's DIY system, is fasle selling or something.

Like saying you sell Armani perfume when its really something else entirely

Then you'll be right up the creek

VERY VERY WRONG Tennent,

Think about it for one moment and break it down -

NOBODY is using the Ionics logo (you use Armani as an example) which is a trading name.

What you are saying is "ARMANI" and "Perfume" are one and the same....WRONG!

Ionics - a commercial name and brand

Reach and Wash - a term used for a product

Just to spell it out to you using your own analogy -

Armani - a commercial name and brand

Perfume - a term used for a product



If anybody attempted to use 'Ionics' on the side of their van, then I would be 100% behind Ionics and state that this was 'theft' and the culprit should have the full weight of the law thrown at them.

....but nobody actually did. Did they  ;)

matt

Re: Reach & Wash - registered trade mark?
« Reply #87 on: August 18, 2008, 09:59:20 pm »
What if there is no tomorrow? There wasn't one today.

TennetClean

  • Posts: 497
Re: Reach & Wash - registered trade mark?
« Reply #88 on: August 18, 2008, 10:03:13 pm »
David mate, whatever you're on, I want some!
My friends call me Tuppence Clean

AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 26588
Re: Reach & Wash - registered trade mark?
« Reply #89 on: August 18, 2008, 10:04:08 pm »
Don't Ionics get "chopsy" if you use that Mr. Blobby/Cyberman thing with a dripping stick that passes for a logo along with the words "Reach and Wash"?
It's a game of three halves!

David Slater

Re: Reach & Wash - registered trade mark?
« Reply #90 on: August 18, 2008, 10:21:24 pm »
David mate, whatever you're on, I want some!

Another thought provoking, well reasoned, articulate point by Tennet.



Oh well......I tried  ::)

David Slater

Re: Reach & Wash - registered trade mark?
« Reply #91 on: August 18, 2008, 10:26:32 pm »
David why don’t you put “Reach & Wash” on your vehicle and any other stationary, then contact Ionic and tell them what you have done!

Let us know what happens.

 :)

Ewan,

Give me 7 weeks to get the website up and I think you'll be VERY surprised with just who has given me permission to use logos/pictures/text and layout.

Hopefully, you'll also be impressed with the results.

On the subject of Reach and Wash - why should I even attempt to use it? Ionics have clearly shown what they will do if I try.

No matter.

...I'm sure they wont mind me giving my business to other companies.



Quid Pro Quo.....as they say  ;)



merson

Re: Reach & Wash - registered trade mark?
« Reply #92 on: August 18, 2008, 10:27:43 pm »
David mate, whatever you're on, I want some!

Another thought provoking, well reasoned, articulate point by Tennet.



Oh well......I tried  ::)
Just a word of advice mate , dont feed the troll !    Keep on doing what you do , earning a good living ! And dont take notice of the idiots on this site !  Do you play golf ? My golfing partner is moving abroad , so I need a replacement  ;D

David Slater

Re: Reach & Wash - registered trade mark?
« Reply #93 on: August 18, 2008, 10:35:00 pm »
David mate, whatever you're on, I want some!

Another thought provoking, well reasoned, articulate point by Tennet.



Oh well......I tried  ::)
Just a word of advice mate , dont feed the troll !    Keep on doing what you do , earning a good living ! And dont take notice of the idiots on this site !  Do you play golf ? My golfing partner is moving abroad , so I need a replacement  ;D

LOL...

Funny story about golf -

MY brother in law plays for Preston County (he's very good by all accounts!).

Anyway, my sister is off shopping with my missus so he tells me to come along for a game of golf.

He shows me how to 'address the ball' and all of that stuff....I take a big swing and crack!!! I broke my thumb!

I hit a piece of turf about 2 foot wide into the air and collapsed onto the floor in agony.

4 hours in casualty and 4 months physio!



lol....I've never played since and he wont let me forget it  ;D

merson

Re: Reach & Wash - registered trade mark?
« Reply #94 on: August 18, 2008, 10:38:54 pm »
David mate, whatever you're on, I want some!

Another thought provoking, well reasoned, articulate point by Tennet.



Oh well......I tried  ::)
Just a word of advice mate , dont feed the troll !    Keep on doing what you do , earning a good living ! And dont take notice of the idiots on this site !  Do you play golf ? My golfing partner is moving abroad , so I need a replacement  ;D

LOL...

Funny story about golf -

MY brother in law plays for Preston County (he's very good by all accounts!).

Anyway, my sister is off shopping with my missus so he tells me to come along for a game of golf.

He shows me how to 'address the ball' and all of that stuff....I take a big swing and crack!!! I broke my thumb!

I hit a piece of turf about 2 foot wide into the air and collapsed onto the floor in agony.

4 hours in casualty and 4 months physio!



lol....I've never played since and he wont let me forget it  ;D
Thats what family of for . . . . LOL  ;D

Re: Reach & Wash - registered trade mark?
« Reply #95 on: August 18, 2008, 10:42:45 pm »
Don't Ionics get "chopsy" if you use that Mr. Blobby/Cyberman thing with a dripping stick that passes for a logo along with the words "Reach and Wash"?

Oh just a little bit, and fair enough as the drawing/picture is the logo of ionics.
But how you manage to copyright 3 normal words from the English dictionary is beyond me, but having had dealings with ionics over another issue, trust me, they will pursue what they see as their right.
Trouble is, their very attitude against small window cleaning businesses probably does more harm than good for this part of the market place. But then I guess they don't give a fluck.

L.J.Thorpe

  • Posts: 2056
Re: Reach & Wash - registered trade mark?
« Reply #96 on: August 18, 2008, 10:46:12 pm »
have i missed something ???
someone has deleted a post on here from toilet
it says that most of us are numpties with bodged systems
thats not very nice toilet ;D
did you delete it yourself ???
btw i still think the term means nowt to the majority of commercial or residential customers
certainly not round here
really arrogant post you put up
shows your core beliefs tho i suppose ;)

matt

Re: Reach & Wash - registered trade mark?
« Reply #97 on: August 18, 2008, 10:51:39 pm »
Today is tomorrow. It happened!

merson

Re: Reach & Wash - registered trade mark?
« Reply #98 on: August 18, 2008, 11:06:12 pm »
There is no tomorrow there never has been same as yesterday!

 ;D ;D ;D
Is that an Elvis song ?

TennetClean

  • Posts: 497
Re: Reach & Wash - registered trade mark?
« Reply #99 on: August 18, 2008, 11:08:48 pm »
Hey thorpe, I didnt delete my post?  Its all still there as far as I can tell.  Only its far back now, page 5.

I do lack tact, that I admit, but arogant I am not.  Actually I have found myself wondering about how other window cleaners work. 

I've never been a fan of bodge systems, i think they are bad.  But trolley systems fascinate me.  If you could work efficiently with a trolley, that would make WFP window cleaning very simple.

I have trouble getting my head around the practicalities of it though.  But still, it must work because people use em.
My friends call me Tuppence Clean