[Feen]

I started changing to wfp in July/Aug time. Initially everything was great, but now I'm getting some problems and they are denting my confidence a bit. I did a customer last week (wfp for the second time) and he told me a few days later that there were lots of marks on his living room window. I know the man and he was nice about it. I went round to see and they were bad, especially when the sun was shining I think I just didn't rinse enough. I did a new one today that was painted wooden frames. I expected a bit of trouble and did get some runs, which I sorted. I went home and did my own. Now I do have bad windows with lots of old paint. I rinsed and rinsed again, but still got some bad stains. It doesn't half knock my confidence a bit. I feel I'm doing it right, avoiding the top frame, rinsing well etc etc, but......Come on, guys, give me a boost....please

[Andy@w.c.s]

Hi Mate
So are you just having problems on the old painted windows
Or the plastic ones as well 

[matt]

i still get dirty water runs of fine spots on a few windows, people accept it upstairs with the safety side of it BUT they tend to moan if its downstairs, thus i normally do it trad downstairs, keeps them happy

[simbo]

trad the bottoms on diffcult ones as customers less likely to ntice on the upstairs and leaves yourself more rinsing water also. In the end they will come good
ps we all get them and just occasionally trad is easier
simbo

[pingu]

I had this a few months into my 1st year ( I am no expert )....I put it down to getting a little too quick and not using enough water flow...Now I am not suggesting this is your problem but it certainly was for me.

After that period I upped my flow rate and just spent a little extra time on each house.....now over a year later I am flying around my jobs ....but I do ensure that for the first 3 cleans....I am very carefull....after that I am starting to really fly....

But every now and then I get the odd house or window which just does not like to play... but I would be careful not to go back to trad...

As for the complaint....that is great news in a way...gives you a real problem to see and solve....it will more than likely help you with any future issues of this sort.

Good luck and keep your chin up....

[Feen]

Thanks guys for your comments. Andy - the problem was with plastic. See reply to Pingu. Matt and Simbo - I have been doing some downs trad or squeegeeing them after a wfp clean as I think it looks better if nothing else. Pingu - exactly what I thought. I,ve been going too fast with false confidence. Need to slow down. I was very pleased to get the complaint off a guy I know, rather than him or his missus telling the neighbours this wfp is *&^**. Thanks guys, tomorrow is another day and another day wfping

[Sir Squeaky]

I think you'll always get it on some windows.

I'm on the 7th or 8th time around with wfp on most houses now, and some still always leave spots.

If was going to stop it would have done by now!

I wouldn't let it get you down, as I got fed up with it, but I now know it was out of my control on some jobs and most of the time wfp is good enough.

If painted wooden frames are a problem (they are for me), try not to touch the top of the frame.

As Matt says, trad some if they're iffy.
Or at least wipe the top edge after wfp'ing and squeegee the water off.
No need to detail.

[Feen]

Cheers Squeeky

[Davew]

It does your head in to start with and you'll still get caught out. Lots of people on here avoid the top frames at all costs. Now i might be completely wrong here but i always clean the top frame and treat it as the glass itself - my theory being that if i'm the slightest bit inaccurate whilst cleaning the glass i'm going to bring the dirt down every time, seems to work for me, you'll just have to keep going untill you crack it. The good news is that the weather is getting duller so maybe your customers won't notice so much. The next time you clean you will be able to see your mistakes from the first time. Rain won't spot in lines like poor cleaning does. Couple of warning signs are: splits in putty on old frames, splits in rubber seals, oxidised frames and flakey paint.

[Wayne Thomas]

It does your head in to start with and you'll still get caught out. Lots of people on here avoid the top frames at all costs. Now i might be completely wrong here but i always clean the top frame and treat it as the glass itself - my theory being that if i'm the slightest bit inaccurate whilst cleaning the glass i'm going to bring the dirt down every time, seems to work for me, you'll just have to keep going untill you crack it. The good news is that the weather is getting duller so maybe your customers won't notice so much. The next time you clean you will be able to see your mistakes from the first time. Rain won't spot in lines like poor cleaning does. Couple of warning signs are: splits in putty on old frames, splits in rubber seals, oxidised frames and flakey paint.

I clean the top of frames too unless the top frame is narrower than the brush head. Only takes seconds to maintain the frames and that way I don't have to worry about if it rains later in the day and washes any would be dirt (if I hadn't cleaned the top of frame) from the top  down onto the clean glass.

Initial wash and follow up wash I take longer than normal. After that I'm increasing my speed and water flow to my 'comfortable' setting. I never try to rush cleaning a window faster using less water as that's when an improper job with poor results occur and customers who inspect their windows start complaining

[MNWC]

I think you'll always get it on some windows.

I'm on the 7th or 8th time around with wfp on most houses now, and some still always leave spots.

If was going to stop it would have done by now! Undecided

I wouldn't let it get you down, as I got fed up with it, but I now know it was out of my control on some jobs and most of the time wfp is good enough.

If painted wooden frames are a problem (they are for me), try not to touch the top of the frame.

As Matt says, trad some if they're iffy.
Or at least wipe the top edge after wfp'ing and squeegee the water off.
No need to detail.

ironic....Squeeks telling someone how to wfp....love it 

[Paul Coleman]

I think you'll always get it on some windows.

I'm on the 7th or 8th time around with wfp on most houses now, and some still always leave spots.

If was going to stop it would have done by now! Undecided

I wouldn't let it get you down, as I got fed up with it, but I now know it was out of my control on some jobs and most of the time wfp is good enough.

If painted wooden frames are a problem (they are for me), try not to touch the top of the frame.

As Matt says, trad some if they're iffy.
Or at least wipe the top edge after wfp'ing and squeegee the water off.
No need to detail.

ironic....Squeeks telling someone how to wfp....love it 

Bet his van mount is just a very large bucket   

[s.hughes]

Funny, I was always told to clean the top frame, I just cant see how you can get close enough to it without touching it at some time. The idea is to really clean it well so that in the future it wont bring any dirt down

[mark dew]

cleaning the top frame at least gives you a chance of making your window cleaning rain proof. I always do this.
I also got all my complaints and problems between 6 weeks and 12 weeks. It knocked my confidence too. But i took my time and scrimmed the worst offending downstairs windows. They will come up good eventually.
I have a £40 monthly that left runs for about 8 months so i scrimmed the windows after. Jobs a good one. They don't mark anymore.
This isn't directed at you feen, as i also had the same experience but i do find it hard to sympathise when wfp'ers get stressed about complaints from the previous clean.
I don't see how anyone can finish the job hoping for the best??
If you have done the job properly it should (not always) come up clean. But when we do a job the 1st time, what is stopping people from going back when they are dry? It's laziness, nothing else. Once windows come up good the 1st time with wfp, they will almost always come up good from then on.
This only needs doing until they come good. Not everytime.
If we were cleaning a window traditionally and left marks etc, would we just continue, take the money and leave or would we spend a bit more time on getting them right?
If the answer is just to leave and hope for the best, then it is probably the wrong profession to be in.
We earn money for clean windows. To take money for just going through the motions is a bit of a rip off.
Alot of people (myself included) seem to get into wfp for no other reason than to push their hourly rate up. Nothing wrong with that but if we don't deliver clean windows maybe we should lower our expectations until we can deliver a professional service.
Moral of this really i think is to check your results before you get paid. 95% of my work only needed this doing once.
For the sake of a few extra minutes at the end of the day it really does make life much easier and stress free. And it makes for a happier customer and therefore more referrals.

[pingu]

As per Mark....I have now got myself into the habit of walking around 'the' house once I have finished...just to make sure 1 I have not fogotten anything, 2 I have not missed anything.

[john tomkins]

Also it's not always our fault, I had a second clean that I went back to the next day (had another clean next door that wasn't in previous) it had got 3 runs of dirt down the kitchen window, all others fine. Turned out as soon as I had gone she had opened the kitchen window and caused the runs, can't do a lot about that.
As for top frames, I usually dont clean them upstairs, I do the glass the rubber and the angle of the upvc trim piece, you can usually get an actual "stop" point there and just rinse into the angle.
I know most do the top frame but you always have something above it, wether its wood trim, brickwork, flashing etc,  there is always a chance of touching it and causing problems.
Downstairs it depends if they are noticably dirty or not and of course it's easier to be accurate.
Just accept WFP can be very good but it aint always perfect, those who say it is are fooling themselves

[Helen]

been said so many times, wfp is just another tool in your window cleaning toolbox wfp is not suitable for some window types as much as trad is not suitable for some window types. don't lose confidence in the system, keep using it and perhaps slow down and rinse better than you have before, we all make the mistake of going too quickly sometimes and learn the hard way by having to return!

[groundhog]

I also clean the tops of the window frames and give it a good rinse out, I think it looks terrible when the windows are nice and clean but the top of the frame is still filthy!! Although I would be very careful on old wooden frames as a lot of these will let in water.

[Feen]

Thanks again to all who have replied giving good advice. I have taken on board the comments made. I think my main problem has been I have had good results so often, so quickly that I've thought I've cracked it. Got to keep learning

[L.J.Thorpe]

feen  no expert by long way only started april/maytime but know how you feel all i do is rinse big on first two or three cleans rinse top frame well also clean top openers on upstairs windows andnleave till run off stops they always mark but mst of all unless customer complains dont worry and even if they do another one will be along soon