[Village Gleam]

I agree it will be interesting to see if he can succeed, I don't think he can on his terms. He will still be around imo but more hands on and involved than he thinks he will be.

The other thing we haven't gone into is investment.
Decent Van £8000
system production of water poles van mount £4000
Leaflets adverts signwriting £2000

You say you've written a business plan Davo, what figures did you use for the above?

[clevs]

Hi all, dont right on here alot, but sometimes I feel I have too.  My point is simple, people who use wfp systems, can not, and should not, call themselves window cleaners, Ive earned the right to this profession, by hard work and etc....  Someone who goes out and buys a brush that pumps out water, is a far cry from any kind of window cleaner that I know.  Ive pick up so much work from wfp systems, simply coz it dont clean as good as hands on.  And just lately, Ive heard a lot of people saying that ladders are going to be banned....LOL..... What a load of crap, these rumours are made up by the people with brushes that push out water.......And cant claim to be anything but a gloryfied road sweeper. Thats off my chest now, dont get me wrong, if it earns you good money, its got to be a good thing, but for us, its ladders and cherry pickers.......  Thanks for reading 

[NWH]

Clevs you don`t write on here much your correct,your probobly out ALL DAY climbing that poxy ladder mate LOL.

[Captain Scarlet]

if it's not window cleaning what is it?? we brush windows clean with pure water!! I understand where you're coming from clevs and in most cases of life the hands on approach is better, but suprisingly ( just turned wfp so know about trad ) it does do a better job. I still trad some bungalows because it's easier and I really do see the difference. Frames come out much nicer and glass really sparkles. And wfp isn't new clevs, it has been around since the 50's



Wfp is a tried and tested method of window cleaning and has been proved very well by thousands of window cleaners. Before I was wfp, I would see jobs done by a wfp wc in my area, and the clean was so much superior to trad, it just sparkles. The principle of wfp is simple, as you said a pole with a brush!!! Maybe neither option ( wfp & trad ) is the perfect solution, but wfp is just that step closer. Luke

[supernova77]

And just lately, Ive heard a lot of people saying that ladders are going to be banned....LOL..... What a load of crap, these rumours are made up by the people with brushes that push out water.......And cant claim to be anything but a gloryfied road sweeper.

LOL

What are you then? A glorified litter picker?

Andy

[windowwashers]

Hi all, dont right on here alot, but sometimes I feel I have too.  My point is simple, people who use wfp systems, can not, and should not, call themselves window cleaners, Ive earned the right to this profession, by hard work and etc....  Someone who goes out and buys a brush that pumps out water, is a far cry from any kind of window cleaner that I know.  Ive pick up so much work from wfp systems, simply coz it dont clean as good as hands on.  And just lately, Ive heard a lot of people saying that ladders are going to be banned....LOL..... What a load of crap, these rumours are made up by the people with brushes that push out water.......And cant claim to be anything but a gloryfied road sweeper. Thats off my chest now, dont get me wrong, if it earns you good money, its got to be a good thing, but for us, its ladders and cherry pickers.......  Thanks for reading 

I do trad work and will be doing wfp aswell both clean windows so both are classed as window cleaning, you I guess do not want to change to wfp that is your choice m8 but times change and the work you pick up from others using wfp is more than likely they are not doing it right. if ladders do get banned you well and truly in the stink ( I am not saying they are at all but if you read the details you will see that you should use other methods before using a ladder. Things change maybe you should look into it  

And just lately, Ive heard a lot of people saying that ladders are going to be banned....LOL..... What a load of crap, these rumours are made up by the people with brushes that push out water.......And cant claim to be anything but a gloryfied road sweeper.

LOL

What are you then? A glorified litter picker?

Andy

I can see this getting messy lol

[john tomkins]

Hi all, dont right on here alot, but sometimes I feel I have too.  My point is simple, people who use wfp systems, can not, and should not, call themselves window cleaners, Ive earned the right to this profession, by hard work and etc....  Someone who goes out and buys a brush that pumps out water, is a far cry from any kind of window cleaner that I know.  Ive pick up so much work from wfp systems, simply coz it dont clean as good as hands on.  And just lately, Ive heard a lot of people saying that ladders are going to be banned....LOL..... What a load of crap, these rumours are made up by the people with brushes that push out water.......And cant claim to be anything but a gloryfied road sweeper. Thats off my chest now, dont get me wrong, if it earns you good money, its got to be a good thing, but for us, its ladders and cherry pickers.......  Thanks for reading 

For a moment i thought that was an old Squeeky post

[williamx]

My point is simple, people who use wfp systems, can not, and should not, call themselves window cleaners, Ive earned the right to this profession, by hard work and etc....

I have over 25 years experence in cleaning windows, I have put in long, cold and very wets days cleaning windows.

I have used triple ladders to reach windows that any normal person would consider dam right dangerous, I have had a few heart stopping moments as well, but I am lucky, I'm still alive and walking, there are a lot of cleaners who are not.

I started using wfp 4 years ago, and when I first started I made mistakes that left the windows in a terrible condition, but now I am a PROFESSIONAL WFP WINDOW CLEANER, my standard of work is second to none, and I can honestly say that I do an excellent cleaning job.

Me and all the other Wfp cleaners have also earned our right and respect to be called "window cleaners".

The only difference beween us and some trad cleaners, is we don't have tunnel vision, we will embrace new methods and technology and not live in the past all the time.

[colley614]

I have over 25 years experence in cleaning windows, I have put in long, cold and very wets days cleaning windows.

I have used triple ladders to reach windows that any normal person would consider dam right dangerous, I have had a few heart stopping moments as well, but I am lucky, I'm still alive and walking, there are a lot of cleaners who are not.

Must admit he has got it spot on. I've cleaned windows for ten years myself and have spent my time up ladders far beyond the point that a health and safety officer would like to see me working at. I have also spent a lot of time using wfp's and I absolutely love them. I personally can't understand how you can't call a professional window cleaner a professional window cleaner, no matter what method he uses. I mean did people get this much stick for using a squeegee?

[NWH]

He`s made me feel so guilty i`m going back to scrimming everything from now on,am i B0770ck5 LOL.

[colley614]

lol  A window cleaner is a window cleaner. I've converted the most adamant window cleaner to the concept of wfp because I talk about how good it is so much!

[Davo]

I agree it will be interesting to see if he can succeed, I don't think he can on his terms. He will still be around imo but more hands on and involved than he thinks he will be.

The other thing we haven't gone into is investment.
Decent Van £8000
system production of water poles van mount £4000
Leaflets adverts signwriting £2000

You say you've written a business plan Davo, what figures did you use for the above?

Van £3k
Water Purification £600
Trolley systen inc wfp  £!k
Leaflets £175

VG this is initial investment

[Ian_Giles]

People.....stick to the point of Davo's thread please, if you wish to subvert this topic to trad v WFP, please start another topic to do so.

Further replies regarding which is best will be deleted.

Ian

[Davo]

Mark (Davo),

It will be interesting to see if you are still around in 6 - 9 months time.

No offence intended.

Andy

No offence taken. Ive had it when I was decorating

" Decorating now theres a job.  I quite like doing a bit of decorating Did my sister/brothers/aunties etc etc done a really good job and I can paper . Papered the back bedroom really easy that"

Stick em up triples with a breeze goin...... yeah easy. Work 14 hour days for 10 days to bring a job in on time. Work through the night to get it finished cos the furnitures coming  2 days early and theres nowhere to store it. Yep its a doddle!

Ive never said this job was easy , every job is hard if you want to do it right and earn properley.
What I did say is that its definately safer .

Mark


Mark

[williamx]

Mark

I personally think that the customers you will be targetting , with the prices you are charging and also employing someone to do them is a serious business mistake.

These customers and prices are ok if you are doing them on your own, but with the added expense of employing someone, and also someone who has to learn the trade as well is fatal.

The type of property you need to look at are the larger propertys, where its takes at least an hour to clean, that way you can price your work by the hour.

In you business plan you should have worked out how much you need to turn over just to cover the costs you will incure, then you add a bit more for a modest profit.

You have read a lot on this forum that has convinced you that you can make a sucessful business by running a window cleaning business.

It is possible to run a sucessful business, but it does take a long time and a lot of costly mistakes to make it work.

You have no experence in wfp cleaning and the many pitfalls that go with it, this is a major flaw in any business, you need to know at first hand what the work involves.

I would suggest that you go with someone, for a couple of days or weeks at least, to find out what your employee is likely to come across, so when he hits a problem, at least you will have an answer.

You will suceed if you have determination, but you will suceed faster if you go about it  in the right way.

[colley614]

Davo,

I get the feeling that people are having little digs at you because of your original post on the board. I must admit that when I read that I was fuming but have read your posts since and realized that you meant nothing by it. I had not read any other posts written by you and when I read your first post it seemed you were trying to insult us.

For my post I posted I have said I'm sorry but am unsure if your aware that it was aimed at you also ( the sorry that is!)

The thing is when reading your first post when you say you took work from another window cleaner it looks as if you mean you deliberately targeted somebody else's work now if thats not what you meant I feel people are having digs at you because of it.

Davo again I'm sorry for posting that I think your scum. I don't feel that way at all. I simply over reacted to what I read and when going back to read it I have come to the conclusion that its easy to take your statement the wrong way. If you can accept my apology for using such strong language then I hope we can put it behind us.

Keith.   

[Paul Coleman]

Hi all, dont right on here alot, but sometimes I feel I have too.  My point is simple, people who use wfp systems, can not, and should not, call themselves window cleaners, Ive earned the right to this profession, by hard work and etc....  Someone who goes out and buys a brush that pumps out water, is a far cry from any kind of window cleaner that I know.  Ive pick up so much work from wfp systems, simply coz it dont clean as good as hands on.  And just lately, Ive heard a lot of people saying that ladders are going to be banned....LOL..... What a load of crap, these rumours are made up by the people with brushes that push out water.......And cant claim to be anything but a gloryfied road sweeper. Thats off my chest now, dont get me wrong, if it earns you good money, its got to be a good thing, but for us, its ladders and cherry pickers.......  Thanks for reading 

Hahaha.
Are you Roger in disguise?

Well I suppose I earned the right to go for WFP by shinning up ladders for 14 years myself.  I used to view WFP with a lot of scepticism too.  Even in my first few months I was a bit uncertain of it and it took a while for me to adapt - both my technique and the business.  I do my six weekly round in four weeks these days and I am nowhere near as knackered as I used to be cleaning traditionally.  I have not had any complaints about my work in ages now so presumably I've started getting the hang of it.
This isn't what I really want to say though.  In the last three days a couple of things have happened that have re-affirmed that I made the right choice.  First of all I got a phone call from another window cleaner to quote for a job that he can't do from a ladder (not a reflection on him as I wouldn't do it from a ladder either).  It's a decent sized job so I quoted a decent sized price.  Not too high, not too low.  I think it's pretty fair.  Presumably he will make his bit on top.  He will be doing the insides while I do the outsides.  That looks like being a quarterly job.  He also put me onto another couple of jobs (rather smaller than this one) that he was also unable to do.  I have had enquiries like this from other W/Cs occasionally too.  Getting work from other W/Cs was not something I anticipated when I started with WFP but it has happened a few times now.
Also, yesterday, I picked up three new jobs in a road where I've been working for years.  This was because of a signwritten van and because an existing customer had been telling some of her neighbours that my "road sweeping broom" did a beautiful job on her windows.  It's been one of those weeks when I've picked up about £250 worth of work when I wasn't even chasing it.  Not one of the jobs I've picked up could have been done in full without WFP.  At least one window would have been left doing them traditionally and in one case, almost the entire top floor would have been impossible.  OK so it could have been done with a picker but the cost of hiring it would have been far higher than using WFP.  Apart from that a MEWP license would have been needed plus an expensive insurance upgrade.
Oh yes.  Before I forget.  I travel between jobs with one of those new fangled horseless carriage things.  

I hope you read my post in good humour because that's how it's been written.

[Paul Coleman]

People.....stick to the point of Davo's thread please, if you wish to subvert this topic to trad v WFP, please start another topic to do so.

Further replies regarding which is best will be deleted.

Ian

Ian.
Sorry mate.
I replied to that post before getting down this far.
Mind you, I've replied appropriately I think.

[Davo]

Keith - theres no problem Ive read many of your posts and you come across as a very fair decent young man. Im not here to offend anyone, Im not a window cleaner, and thats isnt because I think in anyway that the work is beneath me. I was afterall a  decorator, and proud of my trade.
 
In no way whatsoever do I look down my nose at anyone, especially decent hard working members of this forum. I do not think this job( or any other for that matter), done properly is easy (Its a hell of alot safer than it was though).

You take care keith and keep busy down there in warrington.

As for the digs I can handle those,  


Mark

[Paul Coleman]

Keith - theres no problem Ive read many of your posts and you come across as a very fair decent young man. Im not here to offend anyone, Im not a window cleaner, and thats isnt because I think in anyway that the work is beneath me. I was afterall a  decorator, and proud of my trade.
 
In no way whatsoever do I look down my nose at anyone, especially decent hard working members of this forum. I do not think this job( or any other for that matter), done properly is easy (Its a hell of alot safer than it was though).

You take care keith and keep busy down there in warrington.

As for the digs I can handle those,  


Mark

No digs from me but there is a lot of sound advice on here about what you propose.  The best of it is that you really ought to go out there and go hands on with the window cleaning so that you have personal experience of the potential pitfalls.  I believe that by doing this you will have more chance of achieving your goals and reduce the risk of falling flat on your face.  A lot of the other advice is sound as well but IMO, the above is the most important bit.