[jeff1]

Hello Ian 
Nice to see you back, where have you been hiding

Sorry Guy's back on topic.

I've been about......watching! 

Ian

And Deleting  

[windowwashers]

To Ian and the rest of the members on the board. I Apologize for my statement!

you didnt offend me colley you only wrote what you thought 

[twt]

there is nothing wrong with competitive pricing undercutting is when you go round asking how much people pay already and then you charge cheaper but there is nothing wrong with doing this either its a free market. how many people on here when getting a quote from two trades men would go with the more expensive because of morals. people want a good job at a reasonable price ok some people are cheep skates but most realize you have to make a living but also know when they are being ripped off, take the conservatory roof quote thread  for example on average people say we should earn 30 quid an hour yet people are saying you should charge 150 for something which will take little over an hour. so if i charge 40 quid earning 40 quid an hour whereas someone else charges 150 making 150 an hour does that make me a undercutter?  if people are charging vast prices for straight forward jobs people like myself will be able to charge more reasonable rates while still earning a good living if this is uncutting then im afraid im guilty. I dont doubt that people can command such huge prices but it aint gonna last take a look around and see how many house are being repossessed many people haven't got as much free money and are staring to feel the pinch and one of the first things to be cut out of an overstretched budget is window cleaning. i suppose what im trying to say is to protect yourself earn a good living/hourly rate but be reasonable.

rant over.

[williamx]

Result
 £740 of regular cleans (20-25 hours work)
 £350 of one off conservatory cleans ( 4 jobs 8 hrs work max - may stretch it)

I work full time (good job) so Ive subbed all the work except the conservatory work. The subbie will use my van, my equipment and wear my company uniform.
He'll earn between £90-£120 a day and start work after finishing at the bakery where he works 4am till 9 am (he cant wait for me to get him more work, hes sick of getting up at 3am for £6.90 hour)


Mark

Mark

Firstly compertition is good for any business and window cleaning is no exception, but to actually target another window cleaners work on his price alone is totally wrong.  Yes you can go where he is working and you can approuch his customers but to deliberatly under price him to get the work is morally wrong.

If you want to target my customers, you are most welcome because I would conteract you price by not charging them a penny.  Also your new employee, when he has learnt how to clean windpws correctly and he see that instead of earning £90.00 a day and giving you the rest he can earn £200.00 and kept the lot, what are the chances that he takes a leaf from you own book and undercuts you prices and graps all of your customers.

In fact it would be interesting if any cleaner on this site who lives in your area, targets your new customers with lower prices but instead of their windows being cleaned by a newbie without a clue, they are now cleaned by a Professional Window Cleaner at say half your price.

[Davo]

Mark

Firstly compertition is good for any business and window cleaning is no exception, but to actually target another window cleaners work on his price alone is totally wrong.  Yes you can go where he is working and you can approuch his customers but to deliberatly under price him to get the work is morally wrong.

I never said I deliberately underpriced him, I said I put a price in at my money £75 for about an hours work, small conservatory but looks a right mess. And the price I quoted was less than her existing cleaner. Now if he wanted more cos he charges more then there's nothing I can do about that. But have you thought he may not  have wanted the job and priced himself out of it.

I dont know the answer. But I didnt think oh hes charging X ( dont know the figure because she wouldnt tell me. Ill charge a tenner less.

If she had told me he had priced it at £25.00 before I quoted I MAY have quoted the job at £60 but I dont know cos it didnt happen.

 And to the posters so far to this thread, who have said that to bring in that much work at that rate is impossible in a week all I can say is this I live near Blackpool and some of that work comes from there ( I wont say where cos thats my business)but there are some big hotels with lots of windows. On parts of the domestic I won heres how I found such a good nugget of domestic work, I was driving my car listening to a feature on the local radio which was talking about how people couldnt find a window cleaner for love nor money in a certain area So I went and knocked it 2 weeks later when I had time.

Oh and just so you dont think Im Davo the price slasher On a big job I quoted for the manager told me how much they were paying the existing cleaner , he also said he would doubt very much if they would pay anymore, but he also told me he wasnt happy with the firm so I quoted the same money. They were getting rid of the firm so does someone else take the work or do I?

Mark

[twt]

Williamx if customers are happy with a window cleaner then they won't stray just because of price i know because it has happened to me the customers you lose over price are either overpriced or cheapskates and you are probably better off without them.

[Fresh Clean]

not related to topic. davo! i love your pic of stanley ogden, the best window cleaner their ever was!!! regards freshi

[Fresh Clean]

and his mate eddie yates!

[williamx]

Williamx if customers are happy with a window cleaner then they won't stray just because of price i know because it has happened to me the customers you lose over price are either overpriced or cheapskates and you are probably better off without them.

I totally agree with you, but with the way interest rates are rising and most morgage payers are totally max out, you will find that some very loyal customers have no choise but to try and save money.

They might not sack you and go to someone cheaper but they might instead want you come every 2 months instead of monthly, if you are not willing to do this, then they will move to another cleaner.

Its nice to make money when times are good, but when times are bad, its wise to understand your customers situation, and adapt.

[Sir Squeaky]

To Ian and the rest of the members on the board. I Apologize for my statement!

you didnt offend me colley you only wrote what you thought 

I feel like I've missed something...

[Village Gleam]

I think Colley was shooting from the hip and calling it as he saw it, and is 'one of us'. Good man Colley.

Now then Davo, welcome to the forum even though you've got 47 posts. You are intellignt and articulate and have posted a very combustable topic.Your business analysis  of this forum and the new business opportunity it presents  was nigh on perfect. But there are errors, including  the subbing one, and some basic maths says that your plan as you set it out won't work. That's not to say that you weren't close.

If your business earns £30 ph and you pay someone £15 ph to do the actual work then that's good strategy. The trick is actually doing it and the clown that you employ not breaking a £400 pole or losing customers faster than you can gain them.

Your avatar of Stan Ogden tells us what you think of us

Your success at canvassing was some of the best I've heard of. What's  your fulltime occputation?

Don't say Vicar oR solicitor because we already have them on the forum.

[Davo]

Your avatar of Stan Ogden tells us what you think of us

Your success at canvassing was some of the best I've heard of. What's  your fulltime occputation?

Don't say Vicar oR solicitor because we already have them on the forum.

My avatar of Stan Ogen is a light hearted representation of an iconic "Old School" window cleaner as percieved by many of our customers, its the image of window cleaners that I grew up with. To summise that that is what I think of posters on this forum couldnt be further from the truth.

I am a time served painter and decorator by trade, but moved into sales when I was 40. So to hear the "one of us " nonsense doesnt wash with me, painting and decorating isnt a glamorous trade and neither is window cleaning.

We are all here trying to earn an honest living.

.........some basic maths says that your plan as you set it out won't work. That's not to say that you weren't close.

If your business earns £30 ph and you pay someone £15 ph to do the actual work then that's good strategy. The trick is actually doing it and the clown that you employ not breaking a £400 pole or losing customers faster than you can gain them.

Thats paying £15 to someone who has only got a couple of days work at the moment. And I wouldnt use  "A clown" thats why I pay  "proper mans" money
If I wanted a clown Id put an advert in the job centre with all the others offering £250 for a 40hr  week. If you pay a man peanuts........

Also the baker is a very nice friendly guy who works bloody hard for a near subsistance wage. He will do well, he just needs a break. And I have every confidence that he will bring in more work too, and at worst he wont lose me any when hes had time to learn the skills required for wfp work. Ive got a few properties for him to practice on before he goes out and works for money.

Now I know its not easy, doing a good job takes time, practice and experience, but dont make out that its rocket science either

Mark

[Village Gleam]

Rocket science no, detail ,yes.

Colley is one of us, and so too may you be. Good luck.

[williamx]

Davo

I would reccomend that you send your trainee on a training course, its will save you a lot of time and lost customers.

It might be wise if you went on one as well, it wouldn't do, if the help, knew more, than the boss.

Ionics do one thats pretty good.

[Village Gleam]

I believe that these businesses have low exit value because if T/O IS 50K and ex's are 15k then that is an income of 35k. But to service that work assuming you werent doing it yourself you would have to pay someone 25k (at leadleast).
Therefore as a business it it only worth 10k pa, and then you have to have a lot invested in van -eqiupment- home /garage set up for pure water production etc.

No, Davo. set your mate up in painting and decorating, that's where the easy money is, that's why you've got so many properties

[Davo]

I believe that these businesses have low exit value because if T/O IS 50K and ex's are 15k then that is an income of 35k. But to service that work assuming you werent doing it yourself you would have to pay someone 25k (at leadleast).
Therefore as a business it it only worth 10k pa, and then you have to have a lot invested in van -eqiupment- home /garage set up for pure water production etc.

No, Davo. set your mate up in painting and decorating, that's where the easy money is, that's why you've got so many properties

Thanks for the reply regarding exit value

As to the last bit.......did I say they were mine. I said I had .... mmmm fair point VG that was not what I meant though

I have friends whos properties he can practice on....is that better?

Just to clarify another point ( cos I can see where this is leading) Ive been a successful salesman for the last 5 and a bit years, Im not wealthy, but at the same time Im not skint either. I have the luxury of being able to find a few bob to invest into what I believe is a worthwhile venture. Ive put a little away I hope this meets with the approval of "The Brotherhood"


Mark

[Village Gleam]

Your plan is a good one, it's just that it's very hard to do and there are always setbacks you hadn't thought of.

I work my socks off and I struggle. Read Squeakies posts, we get the sack for almost anything.

Some of what you say like doing a cons in an hour is possible but you start taking three times this. You may have an advantage because of previous work where you had to think through what you were doing though.

[windowwashers]

I believe that these businesses have low exit value because if T/O IS 50K and ex's are 15k then that is an income of 35k. But to service that work assuming you werent doing it yourself you would have to pay someone 25k (at leadleast).
Therefore as a business it it only worth 10k pa, and then you have to have a lot invested in van -eqiupment- home /garage set up for pure water production etc.

No, Davo. set your mate up in painting and decorating, that's where the easy money is, that's why you've got so many properties

Thanks for the reply regarding exit value

As to the last bit.......did I say they were mine. I said I had .... mmmm fair point VG that was not what I meant though

I have friends whos properties he can practice on....is that better?

Just to clarify another point ( cos I can see where this is leading) Ive been a successful salesman for the last 5 and a bit years, Im not wealthy, but at the same time Im not skint either. I have the luxury of being able to find a few bob to invest into what I believe is a worthwhile venture. Ive put a little away I hope this meets with the approval of "The Brotherhood"


Mark

The more I read this the more I find it amusing, Mark good on you for trying to start a new business, I was a sales man myself I got out of it as to many highs and lows (I too earnt very good wage from it) No one can knock you for starting up, competition is good, if you do a good job your customer will not want to change for £1/£2 less some will I know happens sometimes, I myself do not take on work like this as one they are unloyal customers and building a business is like building a house. Poor foundations most likely will not last and end up costing a fortune to put right. Build it right at the start and will stand the test of time
what you do is your own choice and is them choices you make in life that you have to live with good or bad. Please dont  be patronising as this is the way you are coming across to me

[NWH]

Unless your serious you won`t last 1 winter,and thinking that you can just get someone to do the work with no experience is a joke.It`s not just a question of getting a bit of work and away you go,come back in a year and tell me i`m right.

[xxmattyxx]

Perhaps starting out as a painter and decorator is easy-peasy, thus, the thought that making money window-cleaning is easy-peasy 

This thread reminds me of the guy in 'Boys From The Black-Stuff'



Gissa job, Oi can do dat......